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Clara thinks so. First time I've ever heard that. Is it true? Did I just miss it?
I started this blog because it was going on and on in another thread completely off topic - and it was a good topic Avo brought up. Get your replies over here Clara. No more flooding other people's posts with inanity.
Comments
btnben
Sat, 03/17/2012 - 20:42
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Here you go Clara
Save clogging up someone else's thread - or is that your aim?
It may not matter what you think - that's up to you. That is not the question though. You come on here spreading lies and expect to get away with it. Not going to happen...lol. If you want to talk shit, there are plenty of AA sites that will make you more than welcome...lol
God damn it, get me a whiskey
Bill W, Deathbed
http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc
avogadno
Sat, 03/17/2012 - 20:42
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Great idea, I hope that some
Great idea, I hope that some of the math gets explained in detail here. Math doesn't like Avo.
Pro Empowerment!
Truth about AA: http://orange-papers.org/menu1.html
Expose AA: http://www.expaa.org/
avogadno
Sat, 03/17/2012 - 20:47
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A good starting point might
A good starting point might be pointing out that there is absolutely no evidence that AA has "saved millions" of lives. I must have heard that lie a million times. Maybe even 2 million times. Thats a fact. I'm sure it's true.
Pro Empowerment!
Truth about AA: http://orange-papers.org/menu1.html
Expose AA: http://www.expaa.org/
btnben
Sat, 03/17/2012 - 22:08
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Avo, I've told you a thousand million times.
Don't exaggerate...lol
God damn it, get me a whiskey
Bill W, Deathbed
http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc
live_free_or_die
Sat, 03/17/2012 - 20:47
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95%? I think I heard that percentage somewhere
http://www.soberforever.net/hazelden-treatment-center-and-aa-success-rat...
Asshat
Alcoholics Anonymous: MyNotGodHasItCovered®
http://www.expaa.org/
http://bereanresearch.com/
http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/
NOT AA:
Rational Recovery, SOS, HAMS
http://alcoholabusesolutions.com/
btnben
Sat, 03/17/2012 - 20:58
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Figure 1 - Page 4
http://www.orange-papers.org/The_Mathematics_of_Alcoholics_Anonymous_-_P...
God damn it, get me a whiskey
Bill W, Deathbed
http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc
btnben
Sat, 03/17/2012 - 20:56
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OK - here we go
"There are lies, damned lies, and statistics"
The AA survey 2007 says that 33% of people surveyed had 10 years or more sobriety. Sounds impressive doesn't it. Clara has latched onto this figure and is saying 33% of people who go to AA reach 10 years sobriety. Wrong.
The AA surveys are NOT longitudinal. (Smartass way of saying the survey is done over a period of time or continuously). The survey used to be done on one night every 3 years. It is a snapshot of AA on that night. All it can determine is what AA looked like on that night. It can give no indication of the rate of success as no failures are recorded. Just the people who happened to be at meetings on that day. If you have no idea of the number of failures it is impossible to calculate a rate of success.
Let's look at that 33%. Now, if, on the night of the survey in 2007, AA had 3 members worldwide and 2 had less than 10 years and the third had 10 years, then that survey would yield 33% >10 years. Now, if all the meeting in the world had a turnover of say 10 million people in 2007, but only the 2 newcomers and the oldtimer were sober on survey night. the survey would still say 33% over 10 years. So, doing it the AA way, if, in 2007 AA had 10,000,002 newcomers and 10,000,000 relapsed, the survey would still show 33% > 10 years.
Did I hear someone say "What a fucking con"?
God damn it, get me a whiskey
Bill W, Deathbed
http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc
alkieanon
Sat, 03/17/2012 - 21:08
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Survey is a Snapshot
You are correct. The survey is a snapshot of 8,000 AA members who responded in 2007:
"In 2007 more than 8,000 A.A. members from the U.S. and Canada participated in a random survey of the membership."
Anyone can try to interpolate/extrapolate the data to determine success or failure rates. But it would not accurate.
btnben
Sat, 03/17/2012 - 21:11
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Rubbish
The survey registered no failures. Without any information about failures NO success rate can be calculated. Period (American...lol)
God damn it, get me a whiskey
Bill W, Deathbed
http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc
alkieanon
Sat, 03/17/2012 - 21:16
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Eyewash
Agreed. The survey is eyewash.
avogadno
Sat, 03/17/2012 - 20:55
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Clara,
Clara,
I know you feel that you are being picked on at every turn. Please understand, at least where I'm coming from, that it's not just because your an AA and I want to argue with you. Sincerely. It's important that no one gets the wrong idea or are misled. Even inadvertently. That’s why Ben and C&E won’t let it go.
One of the big problems has been that AA has made claims for 50+ years and many (if not most) were not true. Some were flat out lies. For the most part, nobody bothered to call them out on it. They just took it for granted that a religious group wouldn’t lie or mislead anyone.
It’s gone on too long. People are being hurt. People are dying because of false information being spread.
Pro Empowerment!
Truth about AA: http://orange-papers.org/menu1.html
Expose AA: http://www.expaa.org/
Clara
Sat, 03/17/2012 - 21:17
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Thank you, Avo. It doesn't
Thank you, Avo. It doesn't matter what the topic is and it isn't even a matter of feeling "picked on." It is the double standard that exists at every turn and the goofy tactics used. You know, screaming liar and troll at every juncture. Claiming people aren't who they say they are. Devoting whole forums to me yet then making it out as if a participant is more important than the choice to center a blog about her... This is childish.
I don't agree with Ben and Cause. I don't have to nor do they have to agree with me, but I don't ust jump to disagree with them. I wasn't a drug addict, and I didn't live the way these people depict themselves in the rooms, yet I am said to have described them as filthy. To say that I am grateful that I didn't have that problem isn't elitist. It's as honest as I can be. They describe lives of horror. I have tried to meet Anti halfway, and I really think that if Bongo the Clown were out in the park every Sunday in the pavillion, that wouldn't be a problem with her nor would she consider it monopolizing. I never knew minors at meetings, so why not simply believe it instead of going on about it? I got sober in a retirement area. It just might be possible that I didn't know any minors and that most of the people I knew had decades inthe fellowship. For whatever reasons some people have come to despise AA, there are plenty that don't feel that way and wouldn't. Why not just practice some acceptance? Then you get the "WE know more about AA than you do..." They just might, but it doesn't change that AA is where I got sober and I enjoyed it.
I don't care what efforts anyone on this board does to discredit AA. AA won't fall because of OP, but what's to not believe that not everyone had a bad experience?
Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.
btnben
Sat, 03/17/2012 - 21:23
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Victim...lol
If you want to be treated normally, stop lying and twisting words. You know you do it.
You moan about others saying what people should do, then you come on a site dedicated to people who have had a bad experience with AA and tell them they are wrong. Believe me, you deserve a lot worse than you're getting on this site...lol (If that doesn't get Marietta squealing, nothing will...lol)
God damn it, get me a whiskey
Bill W, Deathbed
http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc
Clara
Sat, 03/17/2012 - 21:28
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Stating how it is, Ben. I
Stating how it is, Ben. I mean, you devoted the forum to me, so what is your problem? I have never said anyone was wrong. I told them that it wasn't my experience. They can have theirs. I can sure see how happy, joyous and free you are, Ben! Keep that mouth up and Anti will have you banned from the park!
Why would you possibly think that someone deserves anything for simply having a differing opinion or experience?
Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.
btnben
Sat, 03/17/2012 - 21:36
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Clara
Forgive me for being angry when someone blatantly lies to me. You are a liar and I will point it out every time you do it. I didn't devote this thread to you Clara, I devoted it to exposing your lies.
I am perfectly happy, even though I've had no brainwashing for over a year now. I don't think anyone deserves anything for having a different opinion or experience. But you lie and that does deserve exposing and ridicule. You still won't admit you can't understand a simple survey, will you...lol
God damn it, get me a whiskey
Bill W, Deathbed
http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc
Clara
Sat, 03/17/2012 - 21:38
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Who lied to you? Didn't you
Who lied to you? Didn't you read the same information? You are simply acting the ass, but that's okay. Most men I knew from the UK were just like you. If you don't want to believe it, fine by me.
Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.
btnben
Sat, 03/17/2012 - 21:42
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Are you being serious Clara?
You don't even understand what the problem is, do you?...lol. Please tell me what AA success rate is for 10 years and where you got that information. I've read the survey time after time and I can't find it...lol. You're summing up whole nationalities in a sentence again Clara. Must warn you - Hitler came a bit unstuck with that one...lol
God damn it, get me a whiskey
Bill W, Deathbed
http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc
becket
Sat, 03/17/2012 - 22:50
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Clara can see with precision
Clara can see with precision exactly what the problem is, btnben. It's you. You're the problem. You are belligerent and intolerant, snarky and hateful. Who would want to live without the structure of AA or some sort of support group if it meant they were going to turn out like you? You hammer down for answersanswersanswers and don't even give this woman a chance to respond. Then when she does you do a total smackdown, which is driven by your own ridiculous anger that someone dares to disagree with you. Keep it up. The more you keep your tantrum going, the stupider you look.
“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian
btnben
Sat, 03/17/2012 - 23:00
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"You are belligerent and intolerant, snarky and hateful."...lol
Mirror, mirror on the wall...lol
God damn it, get me a whiskey
Bill W, Deathbed
http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc
Trisha K.
Sun, 03/18/2012 - 11:43
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No Ben there is no mirror just a reflection of you.
I will say this you are definetly showing every American woman here just how abusive you can be. I knew you were a piece of shit two days after I got here. You haven't changed my mind at all.
You are different from all the other members here. Even JR knows when enough is enough. You have no class at all as a man.
“The more I traveled the more I realized that fear makes strangers of people who should be friends.”
Shirley MacLaine
btnben
Sun, 03/18/2012 - 11:48
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If there is no mirror there can't be a reflection...lol
Fucking idiot Danny...lol. And you have no class as a woman...lol
God damn it, get me a whiskey
Bill W, Deathbed
http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc
becket
Sun, 03/18/2012 - 12:31
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Agreed.
Agreed, Trisha K.
“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian
becket
Sun, 03/18/2012 - 12:30
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Is this a denial that you've
Is this a denial that you've been all of these things? Is it time for Expose #2? There's an abundance of material to work with, btnben.
“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian
btnben
Sun, 03/18/2012 - 12:35
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All of what things Marietta
And do remember you're troll. Banned troll at that. Dumped and then returned under another name. Integrity - zilch...lol. Beware if you take any notice of the porn queen...lol
God damn it, get me a whiskey
Bill W, Deathbed
http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc
becket
Sun, 03/18/2012 - 13:04
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I'm sorry, but I think you're
I'm sorry, but I think you're truly unstable. What are you basing your accusations on? I don't have any idea what you mean by "porn queen". You're just ranting. Can you explain it?
“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian
btnben
Sun, 03/18/2012 - 13:16
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I'm not on the head meds Marietta
You want unstable? Look closer to home...lol.
I thought you said you liked porn in an earlier post? Am I mixing you up with someone else?...lol
God damn it, get me a whiskey
Bill W, Deathbed
http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc
becket
Sun, 03/18/2012 - 13:25
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A man of your word, I see.
A man of your word, I see. If you think this tactic will cause me to back off the expose, think again. If anything, you have inspired me to continue my collection of absurdities, denigrations and hypocrisies that appear regularly in your posts and then blog them so folks, especially newcomers to this forum, can see how you supplant opinion with defamation just to be able to participate. I don't find anything of substance in your posts. I'm hoping new people won't either, and will perhaps just skip over them.
Yes, you're mixing me up with someone else if you think porn is my "thing". I find porn demeaning and desensitizing. I'm guessing you don't and it's all very funny to you. Do you have children? Do you abuse them, too?
“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian
btnben
Sun, 03/18/2012 - 13:32
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FFS Marietta
You got in enough trouble when you wished PIE a retarded child. Now you're insinuating child abuse? You are a useless piece of troll shit. Know it and enjoy it.
Addition : I've got a copy of that. Can someone else take one in case verification is needed.
God damn it, get me a whiskey
Bill W, Deathbed
http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc
becket
Sun, 03/18/2012 - 13:33
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Give it a rest, btnben. You
Give it a rest, btnben. You are wasting your time and energy making such ludicrous accusations.
Have you sacrificed boredom in order to find freedom and happiness making wild allegations and indictments? "Pathetic" never had a more convincing poster child.
“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian
btnben
Sun, 03/18/2012 - 13:37
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Would you dare say anything like that to my face, troll
I doubt it somehow. Mouthy bitches are usually just that. You break the law, you have to pay. Ask Danny...lol
God damn it, get me a whiskey
Bill W, Deathbed
http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc
Clara
Sun, 03/18/2012 - 13:52
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Whose law, Ben?
Whose law, Ben?
Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.
becket
Sun, 03/18/2012 - 13:58
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First, I don't consider
First, I don't consider myself a troll here. I do not always agree with people but that does not make me a troll.
Now, what has caused you to label me a "mouthy bitch?" The fact that I disagree with everything you say and the way you say it? I'm entitled to that. I have broken no law. If you disagree, please enumerate the "laws" I have broken and I will consider self-flagellation as a penance.
As far as the things I've said to you in print, I would not hesitate to say them to your face. I have nothing to back down from, I'm not ashamed of any light I've shone on your absolute torment of me and other people here. I think you're a cyber bully who would run with your tail tucked if you came up on me or someone like me. When considering the opinions offered here, I find that only yours are without merit. I disagree with some people, but at least they are offering experiences, positions, perspectives. You are offering nothing but tyranny. You're a thug, btnben. Nowhere does it say I or anyone else has to tolerate you.
“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian
btnben
Sun, 03/18/2012 - 14:03
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Apologise and admit you were wrong troll
Then fuck off for good. I'm not going to let this lie. You know what you have implied and I don't give a shit if you did it in deniable legalese - It's clear what you were trying to imply. You are fucking worthless and have proved it every day of your life.
God damn it, get me a whiskey
Bill W, Deathbed
http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc
Persephone In Exile
Sun, 03/18/2012 - 14:18
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A copy of the Marietta
A copy of the Marietta wishing a disabled child on me? You'd better believe it, Ben!
http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/
Trisha K.
Sun, 03/18/2012 - 15:18
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You really want to stick up for him, PIE.
I not trying to judge you here, PIE, but you don't know if becket is marietta. The real subject here is bens constant abusive behavior. Why in pray tell is it so hard for you to tell ben to stop it.
Jesus, is the influence around here that controlling.
“The more I traveled the more I realized that fear makes strangers of people who should be friends.”
Shirley MacLaine
Amour013
Sat, 03/17/2012 - 22:59
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I wasn't a drug addict.....
I wish I had a dollar for every time I heard that from an AA member.....
It's also funnier than all get up as they try to disassociate themselves from "real" drug addicts! LMAO
The fact is: if you were addicted to alcohol.... you WERE a drug addict..... no matter how hard you wanna twist the truth!
But.... what more could you expect as the AA folks have always had the "us vs. them mentality". Get over yourselves.... you are NOT unique in any way! You drank too much.... you may or may not have fucked up because of your excessive drinking...... simply get over it and STOP drinking altogether! There.... your problems are solved..... you have NO MORE excuses to grow up and get on with your life. (until you discover another excuse!)
Persephone In Exile
Sun, 03/18/2012 - 08:31
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I heard a group of the
I heard a group of the drinkers in rehab saying this one time, insisting that they were different because they had "at least" never done drugs, adding, "But *I* never did anything illegal!". At which point I pointed out in the friendliest way I could that none of them had escaped getting DUIs and a few of them had suspended licenses and were there on the advice of an attorney. Sanctimonious as hell, some folks.
Don't get me wrong, I do see their side of it on the one hand (not having been buying their substance illegally in questionable circumstances, etc.), it's just a bit rich when it comes out of their mouths.
http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/
btnben
Sun, 03/18/2012 - 08:39
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I know what you mean PIE
But the weird thing that I found is that the people who have really been in the shit are the first ones I would turn to if I was in any trouble. The sanctimonious assholes who look down their noses at everyone are invariably the first to fold when the shit hits the fan. Give me a useless scumbag who has cleaned up his act any day...lol
God damn it, get me a whiskey
Bill W, Deathbed
http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc
gigi
Sun, 03/18/2012 - 09:12
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HA!!!
That's funny! I have always been fond of useless scumbags who cleaned up their acts. Some of my best friends are useless scumbags.
"If I forget who I am, I am myself. If I remember who I am, I am you."
btnben
Sun, 03/18/2012 - 09:13
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Us useless scumbags
gotta stick together gigi...lol
God damn it, get me a whiskey
Bill W, Deathbed
http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc
avogadno
Sun, 03/18/2012 - 10:09
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I've listened close to the
I've listened close to the yap when I'm around the folks that have no clue of my former drug problems. Can't trust those drug addicts. Rob their own mother. Etc.
Being addicted to pain pills isn't so bad, but h? Slime. Terrible mother, never had a job, stupid, never went to school, untrustworthy.
Pro Empowerment!
Truth about AA: http://orange-papers.org/menu1.html
Expose AA: http://www.expaa.org/
Clara
Thu, 09/13/2012 - 17:29
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You know what, though, Avo?
You know what, though, Avo? I discovered some truth in those observations when I went into that one NA meeting. A guy was talking about how he rifled through his roomie's pockets when he knew he was dead for his stash, and other that took their father's scripts when they were taking care of him when he had cancer. I've certainly heard from many people that crack will take you places in 5 years that it would take decades for booze, too. It's not a case of "better." I think that street drug addiction is all the more tragic. I remember getting that's call from the jail and then seeing her led out at her arraignment. Legs like twigs, just a wreck. Went with her to court and she got a reasonable deal that included some sort of treatment. She still occasionally relapses on Xanax, but I am at least glad that the affection for crack is gone. I used to go over there and get rid of her dealer so often, the police pulled ME over to ask about it. There is a street aspect to it that I never had to deal with as a drunk. My own foibles were enough.
Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.
avogadno
Thu, 09/13/2012 - 17:42
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Originally posted by Clara on 3/18/12
"You know what, though, Avo?
You know what, though, Avo? I discovered some truth in those observations when I went into that one NA meeting. A guy was talking about how he rifled through his roomie's pockets when he knew he was dead for his stash, and other that took their father's scripts when they were taking care of him when he had cancer. I've certainly heard from many people that crack will take you places in 5 years that it would take decades for booze, too. It's not a case of "better." I think that street drug addiction is all the more tragic. I remember getting Monica's call from the jail and then seeing her led out at her arraignment. Legs like twigs, just a wreck. Went with her to court and she got a reasonable deal that included some sort of treatment. She still occasionally relapses on Xanax, but I am at least glad that the affection for crack is gone. I used to go over there and get rid of her dealer so often, the police pulled ME over to ask about it. There is a street aspect to it that I never had to deal with as a drunk. My own foibles were enough."
--Of course she is changing her original posts so that if anyone checks out the link she appears to be saintly. It is one of her "tricks". Unfortunatley for her, I saved them all.
Pro Empowerment!
Truth about AA: http://orange-papers.org/menu1.html
Expose AA: http://www.expaa.org/
Clara
Thu, 09/13/2012 - 18:06
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Yes, C&E objected to the use
Yes, C&E objected to the use of names, although my friends would not. So I removed names.
This shows obsession about me for a long time, Avo.
Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.
Persephone In Exile
Sun, 03/18/2012 - 14:40
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Avo, that sort of talk still
Avo, that sort of talk still makes me sick.
http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/
Persephone In Exile
Sun, 03/18/2012 - 09:48
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I always thought it
I always thought it interesting the social hierarchy that formed in rehab in terms of what substance one was there for. Obviously, there were other layers to it all, but few had their normal clothes or possessions, and no one had clean time or sobriety beyond how long they'd been there, so another hierarchy formed. What you were on....lol.
http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/
avogadno
Sun, 03/18/2012 - 09:56
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Oh yeah. Such the silliness
Oh yeah. Such the silliness that occurs. It's every day b.s., not just in recovery centers. Just same shit, diff place.
In my first rehab I went to the smoking lounge. I was the virgin to rehab slang. Here's how it went:
What's your doc?
Sorry. I don't understand.
DRUG OF CHOICE? giggle, smirk.
Oh, pain killers. You?
Heroin. Pills are for babies. (I swear, his face glowed)
Is your husband clean?
Oh yes. He's a neat freak.
Clean, as in "off the shit"?. Get this one, Frank. Ha!
Pro Empowerment!
Truth about AA: http://orange-papers.org/menu1.html
Expose AA: http://www.expaa.org/
Persephone In Exile
Sun, 03/18/2012 - 13:33
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ROFL....very similar for me!
ROFL....very similar for me! I was roundly laughed at, too, for preferring hydrocodone to oxy. Not to mention that I said I'd been prescribed oxy and it had just made me sick to my stomach. Well, you can imagine those laughs. "You swallowed it? Why didn't you snort it?" followed by, "Wait, you can get it prescribed?".
One of the funny things is how meth is always on the bottom, period. I remember kids on heroin exclaiming that at least they weren't in treatment for meth, people there for alcohol thanking their HP that they weren't there for drugs period, etc. There was a lot of one-upping in both directions, actually, in that regard.
http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/
gigi
Sun, 03/18/2012 - 12:44
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PIE or AVO
I always thought it strange that addicts would identify as alcoholics in AA meetings. Sure, I know folks who were dually addicted but that's not what I mean. I've met a bunch of people in AA, and spoken with them privately, who were addicted to heroin or cocaine and never had a problem with booze. (all those who I spoke with said they came to AA because NA was too scary, full of too many dealers trying to sell...) Yet, in the meetings they call themselves alcoholics. Do you think this is because so many people seem to look down on addicts and have that "at least I never did drugs" attitude? I can only assume that they minimized their problems with drugs so they wouldn't be treated differently. IDK. It always pissed me off when there would be audible gasps from people when someone shared about their drug use. There is a hierarchy of addiction that exists to some people. The only reason I personally never got caught up in drugs is because I reeeeaaalllly liked alcohol. I fail to see the difference between using alcohol, heroin, or crack to kill yourself. The result is still the same.
"If I forget who I am, I am myself. If I remember who I am, I am you."
Persephone In Exile
Sun, 03/18/2012 - 13:49
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Well, people advise you to
Well, people advise you to identify as either an alcoholic at AA or else an alcoholic and addict. I was told that while some in AA have no problems with addicts being there instead of NA, that some might have a problem and it was best to just avoid it. Also, I think there is a different attitude regarding prescription drug abuse, and I'm not saying this to sound all uppity, but it's also a legal substance that one gets out of hand with. It's not taboo to buy alcohol, nor is it to have a doctor prescribe you painkillers (or whatever else), they're both problems that got out of control without crossing this societal line into illicit substances. And PLEASE don't think that I feel that makes it better or worse than illicit drug use, or me better or worse than the scores of great people I have met in treatment getting off of heroin. We're all addicted to it, it's just that society does view the process slightly differently. Lots in recovery do not, one woman in rehab for pills was congratulated every time in group when she would share that she now knew that "when I went to my doctor and my pharmacist, I was actually going to my DEALER! My pharmacist was my DEALER!". I refused to do the same, needless to say.
Where I live it's completely a socioeconomic and educational level issue. Which goes both ways, too. Many of the NA groups here make it fairly clear that you don't fit in if you aren't, well, very into Harleys. It's VERY biker. And very meth centered. We have a new NA in a better area near me which I'm guessing is probably drawing in less of that crowd, though they band together and hit multiple meetings each night across the entire metro. But it's such a stark difference that even the two hatters around here don't necessarily recommend NA, many recommending AA instead.
http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/
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