Woman arrested for harassment at Kent AA meeting

By STEVE HUNTER
Kent Reporter Courts, government reporter
January 26, 2012 · 12:21 PM

Kent Police arrested a woman for investigation of harassment after she reportedly interrupted an Alcoholics Anonymous meeting Jan. 17 in the 300 block of Third Avenue South.

An officer heard a female yelling from just south of the Kent Police Station and went with another officer to investigate, according to the police report.

A witness told the officers that the woman became loud at the meeting and began accusing other members of being child molesters. When the woman was asked to leave, she allegedly became angrier, balled her fists, assumed a fighting stance and threatened to hit another woman.

When officers arrived they recognized the woman from past incidents and noted she had a history of drug and alcohol abuse as well as mental health issues. They also said she can become confrontational very quickly.

The officers arrested the woman without incident and transported her to the city jail. The woman also was arrested last month for fourth-degree assault and harassment, according to jail records.

http://www.kentreporter.com/news/138147313.html

Edited on 3/4/12 to respond to becket's following questions (he asked below):

"What is the point of posting this piece? Are you alleging that the woman was making a claim of sexual abuse which no one chose to heed and then had her summarily removed by law enforcement? Are you saying the mentally ill can get into a fighting stance faster than the average drunk?"

My response:

I posted this news article because it concerns Alcoholics Anonymous and gives a couple of examples (of many) as to why I think that AA meetings can become dangerous.

What happened here is a good example of how meetings can get out of control. More than 40% of people that abuse alcohol and drugs are medicating for a psychological illness. Also, there are many "members" that go to meetings only to fulfill a parole agreement and they are not limited to dui offenders. There are are also violent and sexual criminals that get sent to AA/NA regularly.

The results are thousands of meetings taking place a day in the U.S. with approximately 50 % of the members having a psychiatric illness and/or are felons. The meetings have NO ONE in charge (only recovering alcoholics present in most) and there are absolutely no safety coordinator to turn to when something like the above occurs and the meetings get out of control.

Members occasional bring children to meetings. Also, minors attend too. Throw into the mix that many members are vulnerable newcomers that are sick and scared and the result is a perfect recipe for disaster. This incident can be added to growing number that has been occurring: Violence with and without weapons, sexual harassment, general misconduct (urinating on and around the public property, littering, general rowdiness).

I also posted this article because there have been cases of child molestation that have occurred involving some of the more sick members and their peers’ (other member's) children. Just because someone has a history of mental illness does not mean that they are lying. It could be that she is a schizophrenic and/or hallucinating OR it could also be that she's aware of deviant misconduct and because (or despite) of her illness went about expressing herself in the wrong way. Perhaps she was frustrated because other avenues she has taken to expose a problem were not handled correctly. I have personally witnessed the AA board ignoring claims of violence or sexual misconduct so I would understand those feelings.

It's hard to tell exactly what happened from the information, or lack of, in this article . I suspect we will never know the exact situation surrounding this matter. AA has a habit of ignoring complaints and sweeping any bad press about the program under the carpet. They have a history of LYING, a list that includes their awful success rate, their history, their membership rate, and any reports of violence or sexual abuse.

I wrote a piece called "The 13th Step and Crime" which covers a few of the points I wanted to make more extensively.
http://expaa.webs.com/the13thstepandcrime.htm

Edited again 3/4/12:

Some people have mental disorders first and cope with drugs/alcohol. Some abuse drugs/alcohol (for whatever reason) and develop mental disorders.

"Addiction is common in people with mental health problems
According to reports published in the Journal of the American Medical Association:

Roughly 50 percent of individuals with severe mental disorders are affected by substance abuse.
37 percent of alcohol abusers and 53 percent of drug abusers also have at least one serious mental illness.
Of all people diagnosed as mentally ill, 29 percent abuse either alcohol or drugs.
Source: National Alliance on Mental Illness"

http://helpguide.org/mental/dual_diagnosis.htm

"Some areas of the brain are affected by both drug use disorders and other mental illnesses. For example, the circuits in the brain that use the neurotransmitter dopamine–a chemical that carries messages from one neuron to another– are typically affected by addictive substances and may also be involved in depression, schizophrenia, and other psychiatric disorders."

"Because mood disorders increase vulnerability to drug abuse and addiction, the diagnosis and treatment of the mood disorder can reduce the risk of subsequent drug use. Because the inverse may also be true, the diagnosis and treatment of drug use disorders may reduce the risk of developing other mental illnesses and, if they do occur, lessen their severity or make them more amenable to effective treatment."

http://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/research-reports/comorbidity-addic...

Comments

Trisha K.'s picture

Why is it that just about every topic has to be blown out of proportion.

“The more I traveled the more I realized that fear makes strangers of people who should be friends.”
Shirley MacLaine

JR Harris's picture

If the meeting takes an hour, you still have to travel to and from the meeting. Prospect hunting is doing pushups in parking lot waiting for newcomers to take the bait and then you have phone calls etc...

What, your group is like Star Trek and Scotty can "beam them" to meetings and Spock can mind meld them? Be serious, on average anyone in the cult of Alcoholics Anonymous spends three hours a day in its care and feeding.

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

Why is it that you feel the need to minimize every issue? Take your blinders off.

"If I forget who I am, I am myself. If I remember who I am, I am you."

avogadno's picture

Trisha said: "Why is it that just about every topic has to be blown out of proportion."

It's ironic that you would think that sexual harassment and sexual abuse is a topic that can be blown out of proportion.

Pro Empowerment!
Truth about AA: http://orange-papers.org/menu1.html
Expose AA: http://www.expaa.org/

JR Harris's picture

I know it doesn't happen in your group, but it makes the papers and everyone else sees it, but we are supposed to dismiss that. The fact of the matter is that if the children are very young, often times the mother has no other choice, especially in court mandated (I know it doesn't happen in your group and all of the stories we are documenting isn't the real AA) because they have to go and they usually can't afford a babysitter (and don't try the excuse that they can stay with friends or relatives because you know that is often unfeasible).

By the way, tell us about some of the juicy Drunkalogs of your buddy Clancy that shouldn't be heard by children. I'd buy a tape on him, but that is against traditions. He's supposed to "give it away", not make a "profit" off of it. Not very Spiritual is he?

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

You are right Gigi, AA meetings are no place for children. It is emotionally damaging to them and puts them in harms way. AA should have apolicy that people only over 18 be allowed at meetings. If they want to have minors too, than they have meetings just for minors and do background checks like Alateen does.

I have witnessed people not only talk about there horror stories in front of small children, but also use horrible foul language around the children. It is really disgusting how low AA will go.

Articles of Criminals In Alcoholics Anonymous and Narcotics Anonymous
www.nadaytona.org

Clara's picture

Our groups have in it our opening statements that since it is a spiritual program, it is asked the people refrain from the use of profanity. For the most part it works. When I hear some of these parents talk in that way, I realize that thei kids are just used to hearing it, so it becomes a moot point. But it isn't AA. It is uncouth people. There have also been people whose sharing style I don't prefer, so I use that as an opportunity to get more coffee or to use the restroom.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

JR Harris's picture

Where is this miraculous group that allows male female Sponsorship, that never has any trouble, that tells everyone to refrain from profanity. I like the minimizing of the "children" hearing this stuff by saying the they are probably used to it anyway. Nice apologetic touch for a Stepper trying to blame the victim as usual.

Did you learn these tactics of Spiritual perversion from Clancy?

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

Clara's picture

Interesting that SMART doesn't have a screening process, and they look for free space since they can't pay rent. I wonder why you are criticizing that meeting in the park in for choosing to hold it there so as to not pay when it is part of SMART Recovery that they cannot usually pay for space. The meetings are drop in and no screening AND THIS HAS NEVER BEEN A PROBLEM. I wonder why when I say that about our club, it is immediately denounced as untrue.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

Clara's picture

Further reading on SMART shows that not only does it accept government monies, which AA doesn't, it's been the prisons for over 15 years. Other than AA did it first, what do you take issue with it, Anti? SMART is encouraged to pass it on and work with others, which amounts to a 12th step, has share meetings ... sells literature, has online presence. Is there a limit on how much money any BOD can contribute? An AA can only contribute up to 3k, and non-members cannot contribute at all. SMART takes money from anyone via paypal. It also claims in it literature that it doesn't work for everyone, just as AA does, and it too invites you to check different options. I have a higher power that I pray to. SMART has "the enemy", the addiction that you talk to... You say tomato, I say tomAto...

Still reading, but I find it fascinating.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

Clara's picture

Further reading on SMART shows that not only does it accept government monies, which AA doesn't, it's been the prisons for over 15 years. Other than AA did it first, what do you take issue with it, Anti? SMART is encouraged to pass it on and work with others, which amounts to a 12th step, has share meetings ... sells literature, has online presence. Is there a limit on how much money any BOD can contribute? An AA can only contribute up to 3k, and non-members cannot contribute at all. SMART takes money from anyone via paypal. It also claims in it literature that it doesn't work for everyone, just as AA does, and it too invites you to check different options. I have a higher power that I pray to. SMART has "the enemy", the addiction that you talk to... You say tomato, I say tomAto...

Still reading, but I find it fascinating.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

Trisha K.'s picture

This notion that parents (mother and father) bring their children is BS (it is just another tactic of anti's to muddy the waters). Very few parents want to bring their child to AA but feel the need early on due to craving and the obsession to drink. Just that hour the meeting provides is usually enough reassurance for them that they will be alright. I feel for them. They have a rough road ahead of them.

“The more I traveled the more I realized that fear makes strangers of people who should be friends.”
Shirley MacLaine

causeandeffect's picture

danny, does it worry you that your rigorous dishonesty will make you drink and die? With all the lies you spout all over the web, it should. It will catch up to you someday.

Troll free AA critical forum
http://www.expaa.org/

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it." ~ Neil deGrasse Tyson

No BS here and you know it. Mothers bring their kids. Fathers bring their kids. Grandmothers bring their grandkids. I've even seen a babysitter bring another AA's kid to a meeting. Children should not be present at meetings period. And please don't give me that tough road crap. We all know that quitting drinking and getting sober ain't easy in the best of circumstances. That's simply no excuse to put your child in harm's way. I missed a hell of a lot of meetings rather than bring my kids along for the ride. I am glad that I made the right choice.

"If I forget who I am, I am myself. If I remember who I am, I am you."

I am glad to see you had the strength and wisdom not to bring your kids to meetings. I know people who have, that later left AA and feel very guilty about it. In part AA brainwashed them into thinking it was normal behavior. In fact in many meetings parents will let perfect strangers hold their babies or take them out of the rooms if they are crying while the Mom is sharing. This person could be a sexual offender or other violent dangerous criminal.

Articles of Criminals In Alcoholics Anonymous and Narcotics Anonymous
www.nadaytona.org

Absolutely true about letting complete strangers look after and hold their kids. It's creepy. I think that newcomers are led to believe that the rooms are safe and everyone there is full of love and compassion. It's dishonest, harmful crap.

"If I forget who I am, I am myself. If I remember who I am, I am you."

Clara's picture

Why aren't these mothers/fathers being held responsible for their behavior or lack thereof? This isn't an AA thing at all. It's a parental choice. Why can't someone the mother knows take the baby out if she's sharing? Sorry, the villagers are wrongly up in arms over a non-beast.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

JR Harris's picture

And dump your male Sponsor, you are giving the wrong impression to newcomers in your group. You just admitted you had sexual stalkers in your group. Why are you bragging about have a male Sponsor and putting these newcomers in danger from the stalkers you claim are in your group. You should be ashamed of yourself. If your religious you should go to church and ask for forgiveness, not go to chant the pagan 12 Steps Anonymously with known stalkers.

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

causeandeffect's picture

Non-beast? Your level of denial is just so typical.

Troll free AA critical forum
http://www.expaa.org/

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it." ~ Neil deGrasse Tyson

btnben's picture

C&E, "Last Word" Clara can only function if you keep talking to her...lol

God damn it, get me a whiskey

Bill W, Deathbed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc

Clara's picture

I am speaking from my personal experience. Some of you are, too. Does that mean any of us are liars or are in denial? It is a very serious charge to make against a person and I have seen lives ruined over it. Suspicions are not good enough. The woman I've posted about caused so much grief about her dilemmas with Baby Daddy over his rejection of her that some of us took up a collection and gave him money for his defense. Of course, it ended up being for naught since SC dropped the charges against him for lack of proof. She was actually mad that we did that, not that SC dropped the charges. WE should have given HER money since she was broke and had to have an appointed attorney, lives with her parents, etc, colecting entitledments while whatever credit she had prior to her bankruptcy went to augmentation and botox.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

JR Harris's picture

Did she have a male Sponsor also? Aren't you proud of hanging around with these people instead of your husband? So how many female Sponcees does your husband have?

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

causeandeffect's picture

Gigi, that’s the real danger of the hairy fairy idea that this is a spiritual program and that the steps work to significantly change a person’s moral character. They don’t. The woman with the 11 year old daughter had quite a bit of time in the program too. She was still very naïve and was shocked that someone could be so dishonest and still be sober. It leads to unearned trust based on time and how good someone’s rap is.

Troll free AA critical forum
http://www.expaa.org/

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it." ~ Neil deGrasse Tyson

Trisha K.'s picture

"I think that newcomers are led to believe that the rooms are safe and everyone there is full of love and compassion".

Oh gigi, they are not led. They walk right into it on there own. AA is full of love and compassion. People willing to bend over backwards to help another. It is our motto.
In one meeting I attended there were so many single parents at this particular meeting that another room was created just for the kids and parents would alternate t/o the meeting keeping an eye on the children. I am not saying this was the most ideal situation but it worked for the time being till parents could afford better. AA and their members are willing to work along side with others.

“The more I traveled the more I realized that fear makes strangers of people who should be friends.”
Shirley MacLaine

btnben's picture

"It is are motto." - "our" Danny, not "are" - Danny Bennison is the only person on the net who continually makes this mistake - what a giveaway.

Talking about dragging Danny - which one's you?...lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lPJRTPm7T8

God damn it, get me a whiskey

Bill W, Deathbed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc

causeandeffect's picture

Please stop allowing him to correct. Please.

Troll free AA critical forum
http://www.expaa.org/

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it." ~ Neil deGrasse Tyson

Clara's picture

I would prefer no children rules, too, event hough I befriend many of those children and their parents outside of the room.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

Trisha K.'s picture

I was referring to you saying father and mother bring there children. You inferred that both parents come to a AA meeting on a regular bases with their kids and this is just not true. No AA member wants to bring their child to a meeting.
Now picnics, conferences and what not. Yes the kids do come. What a good time for all.

“The more I traveled the more I realized that fear makes strangers of people who should be friends.”
Shirley MacLaine

causeandeffect's picture

Bullshit danny.

Troll free AA critical forum
http://www.expaa.org/

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it." ~ Neil deGrasse Tyson

Trisha K.'s picture

I don't know you or who you think you are. But swearing at someone is rude and shows how ignorant someone can be. We all get frustrated here with people and what they post. But I feel cursing at someone doesn't help. Show some restraint.

“The more I traveled the more I realized that fear makes strangers of people who should be friends.”
Shirley MacLaine

causeandeffect's picture

Fuck off danny.

Troll free AA critical forum
http://www.expaa.org/

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it." ~ Neil deGrasse Tyson

Trisha K.'s picture

You are exactly what we do not want around here. I am sure you will be dealt with in time. But till then thank you for showing all of us how not to act towards one another.
It seems Trace LIn and yourself have a lot in common. Your behaviors are both offensive.
I was gone for the Trace Lin show but I could see that you were right up in it. You enjoy being angry and rude. I wish you could find another outlet for your rage.

“The more I traveled the more I realized that fear makes strangers of people who should be friends.”
Shirley MacLaine

causeandeffect's picture

You've already been banned 3 times and are working on your 4th. And when you say "we" you're only talking about the collective of dannys, as always.

Troll free AA critical forum
http://www.expaa.org/

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it." ~ Neil deGrasse Tyson

Trisha K.'s picture

You really are after this guy, aye? What is his name, Danny? I was told he was already banned? This came from the administrator. I guess you have different information, right?
You said this 3 days ago that this Danny guy is working on being banned. How is that possible if he is already banned...lol?
I definitely don't want what you are smoking. The paranoia would kill me....LMAO!

“The more I traveled the more I realized that fear makes strangers of people who should be friends.”
Shirley MacLaine

btnben's picture

"You really are after this guy, aye?" - Only person on the net who ends a sentence with "aye?" is Danny Bennison. This gut is so thick it takes seconds to recognise him...lol

God damn it, get me a whiskey

Bill W, Deathbed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc

Trisha K.'s picture

No not Danny but have read some of his posts here and thought I spice things up. He did have a crazy way with words. Sorta his own Ebonics or slang english comp. IDK. But the more I read, I recognize that Danny, Cause, JR and you ben had a lot in common.

“The more I traveled the more I realized that fear makes strangers of people who should be friends.”
Shirley MacLaine

JR Harris's picture

Haven't I seen that on Fornits and here a quite a few times? Old habits are hard to break aren't they? You should use something that works, obviously AA isn't working for you.

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

causeandeffect's picture

OK, I give up. You can keep him.

Troll free AA critical forum
http://www.expaa.org/

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it." ~ Neil deGrasse Tyson

live_free_or_die's picture

but more of it.

Alcoholics Anonymous: MyNotGodHasItCovered®
http://www.expaa.org/
http://bereanresearch.com/
http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/
NOT AA:
Rational Recovery, SOS, HAMS
http://alcoholabusesolutions.com/

Trisha K.'s picture

I can see the drama been ratcheted up a notch today. It seems we never have a shortage of members here ready and willing to put the worst spin on any topic.
Gigi it is your opinion that children should not be at a meeting because it is harmful. I am not going to judge. I have seen many a parent bring their children and the child is just fine.
Sure it is boring most grown up talk wants to make a kid fall asleep.

“The more I traveled the more I realized that fear makes strangers of people who should be friends.”
Shirley MacLaine

JR Harris's picture

Either edit this post or edit the other one, your making a fool out of yourself again.

So what do your think of Bob Ryder in Lewiston, Maine? You know, your old dragging grounds?

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

causeandeffect's picture

I know, JR. I guess all the contradictions in the big book and 12x12 make it easy for them to contradict themselves without knowing it. Dragging grounds LOL!

Troll free AA critical forum
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"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it." ~ Neil deGrasse Tyson

btnben's picture

It says it's not rare for AA members to have mental problems.

God damn it, get me a whiskey

Bill W, Deathbed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc

Clara's picture

Generalization. It's not unusal for alcoholics or addicts, and she appears to be both, to have mental problems.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

Trisha K.'s picture

Good luck ben. I really hope that you find some help with this troubling alter ego you have. I guess you call him Danny?

“The more I traveled the more I realized that fear makes strangers of people who should be friends.”
Shirley MacLaine

JR Harris's picture

You shouldn't use the same computer for facebook.

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

Clara's picture

I am glad that she was removed. You are overlooking her history. What a nut.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

Clara's picture

she could also just be sick, Anti. We have a woman that comes into meetings and she is obsessed with sexual victimization. Her father got hit with sex abuse allegations when he tried to leave his second lady partner to go back to this woman's mother. When her own baby daddy didn't cough up money more than his child support (she refuses to work because she think the answer is just another man), she accused him of the same thing and used her step-mother's blueprint. Despite no evidence, she had that son in more clinics for poking and prodding because she was simply angry at being rejected and having to fend for herself financially. Lost the house, car, filed bankruptcy, and blames teh baby daddy. When he filed for temporary fulltime custody, she filed against his mother, claiming that she was a lesbian and had a girlfriend. None of it is true and it all worked against her. This lady will wake up at 50 and realize that she squandered her life way.

I don't know what happened at that meeting, but if she has no proof and can't do things in a legitimate manner, then, yes, she was wrong and her behavior only pointed her out to be a nut, not any guilt on the part of anyone else.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

becket's picture

That's a new high in evasive responses, JR Harris. Congratulations, and I don't really care.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

JR Harris's picture

Or our (are) you already on it?

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

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