The Pagan 12 Steps of Alcoholics Anonymous breaking the Ten Commandments

It is not hard to realize that Alcoholics Anonymous is a pagan religion that goes against many of the basic foundations of Christian, Muslim and Jewish religions who all had their beginnings with the Ten Commandments. Many of the basic Ten Commandments were routinely broken by the co-founder of AA, Bill Wilson in his personal life, such as the 7th Commandment "Thou shalt not commit adultery" which he did numerous times and the 9th Commandment "Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house" when he conned the widow Helen Griffith out of Stepping Stones. We must look further than that and inform people that the 12 Steps are a Pagan religion that breaks the following Ten Commandments. Thou shalt have no other gods before me. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's May God have mercy on the Pagans who are adulterating his words and going out in search of "prospects" to convert to the heathen religion of Alcoholics Anonymous.

Comments

AntiDenial's picture

This is what surprises me. How much the churches imbrace the 12 steps. I think many of them dont really read the steps. Other churches have actually voiced concerns, and started their own religious support group that reflects their beliefs system instead of that of a pagan religion.

"I welcome all allies in the fight against A.A. hegemony" -Orange

www.leavingaa.com www.expaa.org

NA DAYTONA Violent Criminals Mandated to AA and NA Meetings
http://nadaytona.org/alcoholics-anonymous-votes-no-to-protect-members-from...

btnben's picture

Orange, in one of his letters I think, had a sort of specimen letter to send to a church questioning AA's unchristian nature. It was very well written and had all of the salient points covered. I remember it began "Dear Father" - is that Catholic - not really my area, religion...lol

God damn it, get me a whiskey

Bill W, Deathbed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc

Clara's picture

I don't think churches "embrace" it necessarily. If a meeting is in a church, that is a rental agreement, not because anyone there particularly endorses AA.
Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.
AntiDenial's picture

Guilt by association. Sorry. Anyway I would love to see that letter written by Orange to the churches that embrace AA. That's like having an atheists meeting, or a witches group meeting at a church. Most would not allow that. But because AA talk so much about God, they have hoodwinked many into believing they are on the same page when in fact AA is a Pagan society.

"I welcome all allies in the fight against A.A. hegemony" -Orange

www.leavingaa.com www.expaa.org

NA DAYTONA Violent Criminals Mandated to AA and NA Meetings
http://nadaytona.org/alcoholics-anonymous-votes-no-to-protect-members-from...

btnben's picture

The fact that AA practices heresy means that churches shouldn't allow AA meetings on consecrated ground. The fact that AA hide their heresy has hoodwinked many churches. It's on the to-do list...lol

God damn it, get me a whiskey

Bill W, Deathbed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc

AntiDenial's picture

Hey Ben we both posted about AA hoodwinking the churches at the same time! Now that is being on the same page!

"I welcome all allies in the fight against A.A. hegemony" -Orange

www.leavingaa.com www.expaa.org

NA DAYTONA Violent Criminals Mandated to AA and NA Meetings
http://nadaytona.org/alcoholics-anonymous-votes-no-to-protect-members-from...

btnben's picture

Dear Father XXX I am disappointed to hear that your church is allowing Alcoholics Anonymous to hold meetings on its premises. Whilst I am sure that this was done from the best of intentions, I would suggest that an examination of the precepts of this organisation as laid out in its literature and shown by the type of witnessing known as "sharing" in its meetings is incompatible with the Christian faith as understood by Catholics, or indeed any Protestant denominations I am familiar with. It's bogus "spirituality" has more to do with superstition, magic and occultism than Christianity. As a matter of fact (recorded in AA's own official biography of him, "Pass it On") this movement's co-founder Bill Wilson was an enthusiastic lifelong participant in séances in which he claimed to contact the spirits of the dead. AA also explicitly encourages the heresy of indifferentism, which suggests that any conception of God (euphemistically downgraded in AA to "higher power") is as good as any other. Even the absurd notion that people can pray to things like light bulbs, doorknobs or chairs is routinely suggested in AA meetings as a step on the way to abdicating responsibility for one's own life and trusting implicitly that Alcoholics Anonymous has all of the answers one will ever need on how to live one's life. You may be surprised to know that Alcoholics Anonymous has very little to say about the nature of alcohol addiction as a health problem, but has a great deal to say about the supposed importance of embracing some very strange concepts concerning the nature of God, the purpose of prayer and the notion that "spiritual diseases" exist. These ideas are not really compatible with mainstream Christianity, although they may share some features with eccentric sects like Christian Science. Alcoholics Anonymous had its origins in the 1930s in an evangelising protestant sect known as the Oxford Group, run by the Rev. Frank Buchman. This movement was highly controversial, partly because of accusations of deceptive recruiting and religious heresy (Catholics were actually banned by the Vatican from participating in it) and partly because of the notorious far-right political sympathies of its leader who openly praised Hitler. The sacrament of Confession, familiar to me as a baptised Catholic is sacrilegiously distorted in AA so that one is encouraged to divulge one's guiltiest secrets (supposedly with God's blessing) to an AA "sponsor" whose only qualification to hear them is that he or she has been a drunkard. Such a person is, of course, unordained, untrained, unaccountable and not sworn to secrecy. This organisation has a morbid and sickly religiosity which is entirely its own and is not compatible with Christianity. To anyone who is involved with it for any length of time it becomes clear that its "spirituality" is a matter of making AA itself the central authority and guide in one's life, not God. This becomes very clear as one hears old-established members talk with undisguised contempt and disdain about the Christian religion, whilst literally giving AA writings such as the so-called "Big Book" (really called "Alcoholics Anonymous") the same reverence and affording it the same authority as Christians would reserve for the Bible. AA successfully misrepresents itself to the outside world as a no-strings-attached self-help and support group. In reality it is closer to being a peculiar and exclusive medico-religious cult. Despite its protestations of ecumenical religious open-mindedness, it actually requires beliefs and practices which set it quite apart from any other religion and make it a de facto religion in its own right. I know quite a lot about this organisation because in the past I had a problem with drinking too much. I am pleased to say that this is no longer an issue, but for a time I did become involved with the movement. However, I was repelled by its heretical religiosity, its dishonesty and the obvious danger of some of its practices to the mentally ill or vulnerable. I don't think this movement should be taken at face value, any more than should, say, the Moonies or Scientology (who also run a plausible addiction "recovery" program). In particular, AA's claim that there is nothing in its teachings that can possibly conflict with a person's prior religious beliefs needs close examination. I don't believe that claim stands up to honest scrutiny. I am not alone in having these concerns. There has for some considerable time been a growing body of criticism of AA in print and on the internet amongst ex-members, mental health professionals, researchers and members of churches about the unaccountable way this movement intrudes a skewed and loaded "spiritual" agenda into supposed help for vulnerable people. I hope you don't mind my airing these views. When I first heard of Alcoholics Anonymous I assumed it to be an obviously benign movement, but considerable firsthand experience of the organisation and its message has caused me to think differently. Yours sincerely

God damn it, get me a whiskey

Bill W, Deathbed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc

AntiDenial's picture

What About Alcoholics Anonymous? BY WAYNE JACKSON “What is your opinion of Christians who attend AA [Alcoholics Anonymous] meetings or treatment centers to stop drinking?” First, let me note that the Christian should not be opposed to any legitimate treatment that provides a medical solution for a physiological problem. If, for example, one’s body has become chemically addicted to a substance, there may be a valid medical means for helping to remedy that problem. Should such be the case, no moral objection could be raised against the procedure. On the other hand, we are far too prone to think that there is a “physical” cure for every human aberration. Many of our problems result from a failure to make wise choices, and to exercise the level of discipline we must force ourselves to apply. It is a sad thing that some in the church feel that they must resort to a hybrid, religio/secular organism, like Alcoholics Anonymous, for the moral support they need – though I understand the desperation that sometimes accompanies such circumstances. But should not that spiritual sustenance be sought from, and provided, by comrades in the Lord? Does the divine affirmation, “We are complete in Him” (Col. 2:10), have such little relevance for us? The inclination to seek solutions to spiritual problems from outside sources, reveals, we regretfully suspect, a weakness in the individual, and perhaps a flaw in the church as well. There are philosophical premises advocated by AA, and similar organizations, that plainly are at variance with the Scriptures. For example, the notion that once one has become an “alcoholic,” he will always be an alcoholic, is ludicrous. One may be “dry” for years, but, according to AA ideology, he must continually chastise himself with the mantra: “I am a recovering alcoholic.” Contrast that with 1 Corinthians 6:10-11, where Paul observed that some of the Corinthian saints, at a point in their past, had been drunkards. The apostle does not endorse the notion that a former drunkard must continue to cling to that appellation for some sort of supposed psychological advantage. The tendency to persuade the drunkard that he is not responsible for his problem – that the “abnormality” is genetically generated, etc. – and that he need feel no guilt or shame for his weakness, is patently antagonistic to biblical teaching. It is an obstacle to repentance and forgiveness. According to the doctrine of Christ, one must accept responsibility for his sin, be willing to reform, and seek pardon in the divinely prescribed way (cf. Acts 2:38; 8:22). Of course there are those who will cite numerous examples of “success stories” to prove the claim that the Christian may remedy his problem by consulting these “para-spiritual” organizations. But certain “successes” may derive from numerous sources that are not divinely sanctioned. My own judgment is that I would not compromise religious principle by an affiliation with Alcoholics Anonymous, simply for the sake of finding relief from a drinking problem. AA officials describe the organism as a “spiritual entity,” and the Twelve Step Recovery creed is saturated with religious nomenclature. (A recent court decision determined that AA is a “religion” and thus courts may not mandate attendance for drunk drivers without violating a person’s freedom of religion.) Similarly, I would not consider attending Seventh-day Adventist meetings in an effort to stop smoking. I would not connect with the Mormons in order to promote a better “family” life. I would not affiliate with the Buddhists or Transcendental Meditation disciples in order to develop a weight-loss program. Why should the child of God seek a solution to his problems in these systems, rather than through the teaching of Christ and the structure of God’s family? While various religious entities may encourage some noble moral principles, for which we would applaud them, their doctrinal error, which is so damaging to the soul, cannot be ignored for a utilitarian goal. The means is not justified by the end. http://www.christiancourier.com/articles/385-what-about-alcoholics-anony...

"I welcome all allies in the fight against A.A. hegemony" -Orange

www.leavingaa.com www.expaa.org

NA DAYTONA Violent Criminals Mandated to AA and NA Meetings
http://nadaytona.org/alcoholics-anonymous-votes-no-to-protect-members-from...

AntiDenial's picture

"I welcome all allies in the fight against A.A. hegemony" -Orange

www.leavingaa.com www.expaa.org

NA DAYTONA Violent Criminals Mandated to AA and NA Meetings
http://nadaytona.org/alcoholics-anonymous-votes-no-to-protect-members-from...

btnben's picture

He doesn't seem to impressed with the 'ol 12 steppers...lol. Good to see people are asking the right questions.

God damn it, get me a whiskey

Bill W, Deathbed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc

I disagree with some of this but a lot has to do with biblical interpretation and I'm guessing that isn't why you posted this article ;=) Mr. Jackson makes some very good points that as a Christian myself I can relate to. I especially liked: "I would not compromise religious principle by an affiliation with Alcoholics Anonymous, simply for the sake of finding relief from a drinking problem." Personally, besides the continues lying (which I grumble about consistently) was a big obstacle for me and the program. I'm sorry to say that I put my personal beliefs aside for a short time with thought that others can be right. The result was spiritual "loneliness" for me. I regret I didn't stick up for my personal beliefs sooner and tell off the cultists that tried to change me and make me become another scripted convert. Another point I'd like to make as that AA is more Evangelistic then your every day Christian, and they are very extreme in their interpretations. There are too many notions in the program that at first glance may seem reasonable, but ridiculous when exposed to it’s hidden truth . Like "fake it till you make it". That could understandably mean (for example), if your sad just pretend your happy because you don't want to end up being even sadder just because you are sad to begin with. If you follow me, lol, that's kind of realistic. However guru and AA fanatics want you try "faking" a belief in God or "faking" that your not angry and even pretending that every aspect of the program is infallible . There are many examples off AA's re-definitions and even over simplification. Powerless seams almost right. Like, I really was powerless over my compulsion (urge) to use. I couldn't stop wanting to. The "Evangelistic" AA's take it too far and powerlessness becomes the inability to stop themselves from physically picking up the drink and pouring it down their throats. Then, it’s powerless over everything. Orange was not exaggerating when he said that Billy Bob wanted us to be "puppets" and let us be under God or even their personal control.

Pro Empowerment!

Clara's picture

Must not have been very effective...
Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.
Clara's picture

I wonder what they think of Alcoholics Victorious or Celebrate Recovery?
Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.
btnben's picture

I only found it when I found the OP. It will be used though, don't you worry...lol. And now everyone has got access to it. In fact, thanks for the spur Clara, the Roadies have taken over a large church in town. I'll e-mail a copy to the priest now. Have to check which denomination he is though...lol Addition : That's sent, and what a turn up. I know the minister from Brighton...lol. At least he's got the same name...lol

God damn it, get me a whiskey

Bill W, Deathbed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc

Clara's picture

But again, it's a business arrangement. Doesn't seem as if the opposition is making much headway. What generally ends a meeting at a church is poor attendance and the meeting closes of its own accord.
Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.
AntiDenial's picture

: "I would not compromise religious principle by an affiliation with Alcoholics Anonymous, simply for the sake of finding relief from a drinking problem." I liked that quote too. Because the fact is, AA does not follow the christian faith in it's teachings. Of course you see all kinds of different religious zealots that use AA solely to convert people to Christianity. It is almost like the end justifies the means. So you have AA saying on one one hand your HP can be of your choosing, or you have leaders screaming in our parks saying God is the only way and using the Lords Prayer. I can see where vulnerable people could be so confused, they really do end up looking up to the sponsors that seem to have a handle on all the double speak, that does not make any sense to them. The lies really make me mad as well. The manipulation of members and society as their PR departments baffle them with bulls(*&. I have also noticed that when they think they are dealing with someone that is not an AA member, they lie a different way.

"I welcome all allies in the fight against A.A. hegemony" -Orange

www.leavingaa.com www.expaa.org

NA DAYTONA Violent Criminals Mandated to AA and NA Meetings
http://nadaytona.org/alcoholics-anonymous-votes-no-to-protect-members-from...

JR Harris's picture

If it is only a business, why don't they let other cults rent there? I think that since Georgia is trying to make it Mandatory that the 10 Commandments be placed on every school and public building, the Ten Commandments should be placed prominently where ever the pagan 12 Steps of Alcoholics Anonymous are displayed. Did I tell you that by default the Georgia License plate says "In God We Trust" on it and you have to pay to have it removed?

~You can not moderate the truth. Just don't lie, steal or make stuff up out of thin air and expect to get away with it without it being pointed out to you. It's really very simple.~

Clara's picture

I think it is funny that you'd use something that has simply been used as a funny thing said in meetings but taking it as gospel. Get back with me about what you hear on the subject. I've heard people say they have a hair on their butt, too, yet it isn't included. But good for you. Much better use of your time than obsessing over why a woman is on this blog. My money is that it won't produce what you would like it to.
Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.
AntiDenial's picture

Actually many an AA meeting has been kicked out of churches for different reasons. Some are for behavior and others is for the exact reasons Orange states in his letter. In fact it is because the argument is effective to the extent that churches have started their own support groups. I have no problem with religious support groups that are not lying about who they are. Scientology says they are a religion when they are not, and AA says they are not religious when they are.

"I welcome all allies in the fight against A.A. hegemony" -Orange

www.leavingaa.com www.expaa.org

NA DAYTONA Violent Criminals Mandated to AA and NA Meetings
http://nadaytona.org/alcoholics-anonymous-votes-no-to-protect-members-from...

btnben's picture

You're not being rigorously honest there Clara. Trying to muddy the issue with untruths. Better ring your sponsor...lol. Since you've brought it up - WHY ARE YOU HERE???? You still haven't answered. What was the "funny thing said in meetings"? Sorry to hear about your hairy butt, or have I misread something?...lol

God damn it, get me a whiskey

Bill W, Deathbed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc

Clara's picture

"According to the doctrine of Christ, one must accept responsibility for his sin, be willing to reform, and seek pardon in the divinely prescribed way (cf. Acts 2:38; 8:22)." I see some stepwork here...
Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.
btnben's picture

.....is not asking a doorknob, or a group of drunks, or Geronimo (That is a real HP here in Plymouth - the Indian) or the ocean. Or is it Clara?...lol

God damn it, get me a whiskey

Bill W, Deathbed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc

JR Harris's picture

A cult is still a cult, no matter how you want to bless it. The scripture you keep trying to get everyone to read and keep "quoting" as fact breaks numerous of the Ten Commandments and should be banned in all forms from any Religious Grounds. I wouldn't even want the pagan ceremonies of AA performed at a church of Scientology.

~You can not moderate the truth. Just don't lie, steal or make stuff up out of thin air and expect to get away with it without it being pointed out to you. It's really very simple.~

causeandeffect's picture

What I find absolutely fascinating is that so many AA members who will troll and troll and troll, and never let it go, and will go to any length to lie defend AA, are the same ones who don't go to meetings. Now some I can understand, they are just far too sick, like danny bennison, and even AA members would reject them, but the rest... it's just bizarre.
"The ideal tyranny is that which is ignorantly self-administered by its victims. The most perfect slaves are, therefore, those which blissfully and unawaredly enslave themselves." ~Dresden James
btnben's picture

Perhaps we should be nice to Danny? The poor guy's only ever known rejection for the whole of his life.

God damn it, get me a whiskey

Bill W, Deathbed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc

causeandeffect's picture

I've seen AA meetings ousted from churches. There's one quite desirable church here. They had to get an AA member to actually join the church then beg to get the room back.
"The ideal tyranny is that which is ignorantly self-administered by its victims. The most perfect slaves are, therefore, those which blissfully and unawaredly enslave themselves." ~Dresden James
causeandeffect's picture

Actually Ben, that's been tried before. It doesn't work. He just attacks people who are nice to him. Hey...wait...
"The ideal tyranny is that which is ignorantly self-administered by its victims. The most perfect slaves are, therefore, those which blissfully and unawaredly enslave themselves." ~Dresden James
AntiDenial's picture

It is a real obsession. I have been on some AA sites to make a point about safety in meetings. But then I leave. The obsessiveness is really amazing. Some people have way too much time on their hands!

"I welcome all allies in the fight against A.A. hegemony" -Orange

www.leavingaa.com www.expaa.org

NA DAYTONA Violent Criminals Mandated to AA and NA Meetings
http://nadaytona.org/alcoholics-anonymous-votes-no-to-protect-members-from...

Referring to Bill Wilson, Stafford admits that after deliverance from alcohol, "the rest of his life was morally erratic." Let more of that truth be told.

Pro Empowerment!

btnben's picture

Has he got recognised mental problems?

God damn it, get me a whiskey

Bill W, Deathbed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc

AntiDenial's picture

Scientology would chew them up and spit them out!

"I welcome all allies in the fight against A.A. hegemony" -Orange

www.leavingaa.com www.expaa.org

NA DAYTONA Violent Criminals Mandated to AA and NA Meetings
http://nadaytona.org/alcoholics-anonymous-votes-no-to-protect-members-from...

AntiDenial's picture

I have noticed in general that something about being about to hide behind a computer brings out the darkside of many. Whether it is stock forums with people hoping you lose money, from people bullying people and telling them to drop dead. Some people get real satisfaction out of it. Danny has too much time on his hands as well as Clara.

"I welcome all allies in the fight against A.A. hegemony" -Orange

www.leavingaa.com www.expaa.org

NA DAYTONA Violent Criminals Mandated to AA and NA Meetings
http://nadaytona.org/alcoholics-anonymous-votes-no-to-protect-members-from...

btnben's picture

What is Clara doing on Danny's hands? (sounds messy...lol) On a more serious note, I've never seen such hatred as is directed at this Danny character - not just on here. Anywhere he turns up, everyone hates him. Really weird.

God damn it, get me a whiskey

Bill W, Deathbed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc

Yes, it is definitely Catholic however I can't say that other religions don't use Father to address their ministers. Father usually refers to the Priest. Sometimes the nuns are addressed as “Sister” or “Mother”. Father John, Father Patrick, etc. etc. Or just Father or Sister.

Pro Empowerment!

causeandeffect's picture

Another thing I've noticed from debating on a neutral site, is that when you present a link as evidence, they'll lie about what that link contained. It's like they just sit back, cross their fingers and pray to bedpan that nobody will read it. And if you just don't feel too much like pressing the issue because there's more important delusion to address, they'll keep repeating and repeating the lie until you're forced to bust their chops about it. You'd think eventually they'd have to realize there's something wrong when they perpetually have to lie, but no...
"The ideal tyranny is that which is ignorantly self-administered by its victims. The most perfect slaves are, therefore, those which blissfully and unawaredly enslave themselves." ~Dresden James
causeandeffect's picture

Yes he has serious mental problems but whether he gets treated for them at all, who knows? And the reason people hate him so much is his vicious attacks he makes, especially on his victims from Elan, but also in general. He'll find any kind of vulnerability (even if it exists only in his own mind) and go for the jugular. That's why I won't tolerate him. He's an emotional predator. I've seen it again and again and again. I really don 't care what he does to attack me, there's nothing he can do to hurt me, but others...
"The ideal tyranny is that which is ignorantly self-administered by its victims. The most perfect slaves are, therefore, those which blissfully and unawaredly enslave themselves." ~Dresden James
btnben's picture

I don't think it's that important these days. The one I just sent was just a copy and paste to the content section on their web site and send. The "Dear Rev. Bryce" was already there.

God damn it, get me a whiskey

Bill W, Deathbed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc

Clara's picture

I post as often in the forums as many of the rest of you do. If I were anti-AA, you'd embrace that. I've learned alot from being here and I expect that to continue. I mean, someone just posted that SMART was free when on the website, it says they pass the hat. That sounds pretty familiar to me from AA's basket pass. No one is obligated.
Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.
Clara's picture

You are using an urban legend a fact. I have never known anyone to pray to a lightbulb or doorknob nor have I ever known a sponsor to tell someone that. Are you over your fit, Ben? Glad to see that you've been restored to humor!
Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.
Clara's picture

But asking the same question and getting the same response that you don't like isn't the same as not answering you or being untruthful.
Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.
btnben's picture

AA is free....but they pass the hat.....and push literature......and speaker CDs.......and conferences.......and "Gratitude Weeks". You can probably count the number of people who havebeen to AA for a month and not spent anything on one hand. That's if they exist at all. Not obliged, but ostracized if the cash isn't forthcoming. Will you stop moaning!!!!! This site is anti-AA. Why you're here at all is a mystery. You refuse to say, so quit bitching about it.

God damn it, get me a whiskey

Bill W, Deathbed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc

btnben's picture

I've just been on the phone with a friend who still goes to AA (for coffee and it's warm...lol). The guy whose HP was Geronimo went to Greece at the end of last summer. His HP is now Zeus. That is the truth Clara. And AA says that is OK.

God damn it, get me a whiskey

Bill W, Deathbed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc

btnben's picture

WHY ARE YOU HERE?

God damn it, get me a whiskey

Bill W, Deathbed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc

Clara's picture

You are my best teacher on this site, Ben. Just because you don't like the answer doesn't mean that I haven't provided you with a true answer.
Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.
Clara's picture

the doorknob anecdote. So far, you are the only person in five years that I have ever had the pleasure to "know" that actually believed anyone thinks it is true.
Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.
btnben's picture

Stepping 101...lol

God damn it, get me a whiskey

Bill W, Deathbed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc

btnben's picture

AA does - isn't a doorknob anything but yourself? And how about the lunatic I just told you about who now has Zeus as his HP? AA accept that, not sure about the Christian Church...lol

God damn it, get me a whiskey

Bill W, Deathbed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc

Clara's picture

No, Ben. There are some people that simply cannot accept a simple answer and you are one of them. We differ on something, but our approaches to how we treat people and issues are completely different. I am glad to have my way, and you are welcome to yours. I can see how much happiness it brings. I haven't once been reduced to yelling, cursing, massive emoting. I cannot believe you'd let a Yank have this much of your mental space. Let me know what the response is from you email. I would doubt that you get more than a cursory email acknowlegement, but I could be wrong.
Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.
causeandeffect's picture

I have literally known someone who used a comic book hero as a higher power.
"The ideal tyranny is that which is ignorantly self-administered by its victims. The most perfect slaves are, therefore, those which blissfully and unawaredly enslave themselves." ~Dresden James
Clara's picture

It's meant as a joke. You are the only person that didn't get it.
Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.
Clara's picture

That's hilarious - some ARE sicker than others. But who knows? perhaps it worked for him...
Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.
Clara's picture

Much of this is apparently true of SMART Recovery, too, per its website. Why would we turn anyone away due to an inability to pay that wonts sobriety? Many people don't have a quarter in their pocket. That's okay, too. What is ironic to me that how much SMART lifted from AA. I also read on Wiki that it is often a supplement TO 12 step programs as well as an alternative. SMART too takes meetings into jails, and they have a policy on prescribed medications. They even sell literature! Sorry, but I have done much of SMART in AA. It's just a different spin. The only mystery is why it matters so much to you. I have learned something new each day I have been here.
Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.
Ironic's picture

Though somehow, I think you already knew this

btnben's picture

You seem to be the expert on what is and isn't acceptable. How about giving us some examples of acceptable HPs?...lol. And just how do you decide what is and what isn't acceptable?

God damn it, get me a whiskey

Bill W, Deathbed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc

btnben's picture

If something pisses me off, I say so and let it out. I don't hide it and leave it to fester. You seem to be getting a little rankled there too. Just remember, I'm allowed to get angry, you're not...lol

God damn it, get me a whiskey

Bill W, Deathbed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc

AntiDenial's picture

To do what trolls do, derail, annoy, be argumentative, disruptive, mean.......................

"I welcome all allies in the fight against A.A. hegemony" -Orange

www.leavingaa.com www.expaa.org

NA DAYTONA Violent Criminals Mandated to AA and NA Meetings
http://nadaytona.org/alcoholics-anonymous-votes-no-to-protect-members-from...

btnben's picture

He's the guy with Zeus as his HP. Sod anonymity - I didn't sign anything...lol

God damn it, get me a whiskey

Bill W, Deathbed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc

AntiDenial's picture

They say the HP can be the group or yourself, anything is their point. Totally pagan, which is considered the devils work by Christians. No wonder so much evil is going on in the rooms of AA.

"I welcome all allies in the fight against A.A. hegemony" -Orange

www.leavingaa.com www.expaa.org

NA DAYTONA Violent Criminals Mandated to AA and NA Meetings
http://nadaytona.org/alcoholics-anonymous-votes-no-to-protect-members-from...

Clara's picture

I decide for myself, as do others. But that is hilarious. Even you probably found it humorous. LOL!
Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.
Clara's picture

You sure do. I am not rankled in the least, but sure we can get angry. It's a matter of keeping things porportional. I don't know where you get that AAs cannot be angry.
Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.
causeandeffect's picture

Correction AD. Yourself is the one and only thing your HP can't be. "The only thing you have to know about God is your not him."
"The ideal tyranny is that which is ignorantly self-administered by its victims. The most perfect slaves are, therefore, those which blissfully and unawaredly enslave themselves." ~Dresden James
Clara's picture

He can't help it. I've learned three new things today to investigate. But why do you fault AA and NA for selling literature? According to the website on SMART (and, no, there are no meetings in EP), they have their own literature and tool "chest." Ours in a spiritual toolbox. Can someone share what their policy is on medications? I can't get the link to pull up.
Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.
btnben's picture

Once you see through the BS there is just so much to laugh at in AA. A lot of it is sad laughter at just how unbelievably misinformed people are, but, hey, laughter is laughter.

God damn it, get me a whiskey

Bill W, Deathbed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc

causeandeffect's picture

Ben, it's really their favorite card to play. I was just rereading another thread. The debate was completely respectful and was with someone I've known for a very long time to be respectful in all communications, even when respect is completely undeserved. And of course, Clara played the angry card. It's all they have really and it's used as a form of control in AA. It must be baffling to her that it's not snapping us right in line!
"The ideal tyranny is that which is ignorantly self-administered by its victims. The most perfect slaves are, therefore, those which blissfully and unawaredly enslave themselves." ~Dresden James
Clara's picture

What's baffling is how angry Ben got and that he says everyone is pissed off. What thread are you talking about?
Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.
Clara's picture

It's interesting that SMART is so similar to AA, yet you all think it is so different. I wonder if they laugh as much as we do...
Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.
btnben's picture

........resentments were a luxury alcoholics couldn't afford? Or some such crap?

God damn it, get me a whiskey

Bill W, Deathbed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc

btnben's picture

........resentments were a luxury alcoholics couldn't afford? Or some such crap?

God damn it, get me a whiskey

Bill W, Deathbed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc

btnben's picture

I'm not angry. It's more like the frustration you feel when a child just won't do what it's told. WHY ARE YOU HERE?????? And I never said everyone was pissed off. Twisting the truth again you naughty stepper...lol. I said people get pissed off with you I think. Anyone not understand what that means let me know.

God damn it, get me a whiskey

Bill W, Deathbed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc

Trisha K.'s picture

The pastors, fathers and ministers are actively involved at times. They have read the BB and know members intimately. Hoodwinked, only in your mind. I have also noticed where some smaller churches are just happy to have another way to generate income to help their church.
“The more I traveled the more I realized that fear makes strangers of people who should be friends.” Shirley MacLaine

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