The Pagan 12 Steps of Alcoholics Anonymous breaking the Ten Commandments

It is not hard to realize that Alcoholics Anonymous is a pagan religion that goes against many of the basic foundations of Christian, Muslim and Jewish religions who all had their beginnings with the Ten Commandments. Many of the basic Ten Commandments were routinely broken by the co-founder of AA, Bill Wilson in his personal life, such as the 7th Commandment "Thou shalt not commit adultery" which he did numerous times and the 9th Commandment "Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house" when he conned the widow Helen Griffith out of Stepping Stones. We must look further than that and inform people that the 12 Steps are a Pagan religion that breaks the following Ten Commandments.

Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth

Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me

Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain

Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's

May God have mercy on the Pagans who are adulterating his words and going out in search of "prospects" to convert to the heathen religion of Alcoholics Anonymous.

Comments

This is what surprises me. How much the churches imbrace the 12 steps. I think many of them dont really read the steps. Other churches have actually voiced concerns, and started their own religious support group that reflects their beliefs system instead of that of a pagan religion.

"I welcome all allies in the fight against A.A. hegemony" -Orange

www.leavingaa.com

NA DAYTONA- Violent Criminals Being Mandated to AA and NA Meetings
http://nadaytona.org/alcoholics-anonymous-votes-no-to-protect-members-fr...

Orange, in one of his letters I think, had a sort of specimen letter to send to a church questioning AA's unchristian nature. It was very well written and had all of the salient points covered. I remember it began "Dear Father" - is that Catholic - not really my area, religion...lol

God damn it, get me a whiskey

Bill W, Deathbed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc

Yes, it is definitely Catholic however I can't say that other religions don't use Father to address their ministers. Father usually refers to the Priest. Sometimes the nuns are addressed as “Sister” or “Mother”.

Father John, Father Patrick, etc. etc. Or just Father or Sister.

Pro Empowerment!

I don't think it's that important these days. The one I just sent was just a copy and paste to the content section on their web site and send. The "Dear Rev. Bryce" was already there.

God damn it, get me a whiskey

Bill W, Deathbed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc

Clara's picture

I don't think churches "embrace" it necessarily. If a meeting is in a church, that is a rental agreement, not because anyone there particularly endorses AA.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

The fact that AA practices heresy means that churches shouldn't allow AA meetings on consecrated ground. The fact that AA hide their heresy has hoodwinked many churches. It's on the to-do list...lol

God damn it, get me a whiskey

Bill W, Deathbed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc

Trisha K.'s picture

The pastors, fathers and ministers are actively involved at times. They have read the BB and know members intimately. Hoodwinked, only in your mind.
I have also noticed where some smaller churches are just happy to have another way to generate income to help their church.

“The more I traveled the more I realized that fear makes strangers of people who should be friends.”
Shirley MacLaine

JR Harris's picture

~You can not moderate the internet. Just don't lie, steal or make stuff up out of thin air and expect to get away with it without it being pointed out to you. It's really very simple.~

grampahaas's picture

Many of these churches have been hoodwinked.But in my opinion the majority are led by lazy elders or pastors who refuse to do what they supposedly called to do,Which is ministering.I have personally confronted several clergy and they act like I am attacking them.Replies seem to be a counter attack. Your just a sinner.Wellyes I am. Join the crowed. what I tell them is still the truth.

Clara's picture

You never took the steps. I wonder how you managed to get so emotionally invested.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

Guilt by association. Sorry. Anyway I would love to see that letter written by Orange to the churches that embrace AA. That's like having an atheists meeting, or a witches group meeting at a church. Most would not allow that. But because AA talk so much about God, they have hoodwinked many into believing they are on the same page when in fact AA is a Pagan society.

"I welcome all allies in the fight against A.A. hegemony" -Orange

www.leavingaa.com

NA DAYTONA- Violent Criminals Being Mandated to AA and NA Meetings
http://nadaytona.org/alcoholics-anonymous-votes-no-to-protect-members-fr...

Dear Father XXX
I am disappointed to hear that your church is allowing Alcoholics Anonymous to hold meetings on its premises. Whilst I am sure that this was done from the best of intentions, I would suggest that an examination of the precepts of this organisation as laid out in its literature and shown by the type of witnessing known as "sharing" in its meetings is incompatible with the Christian faith as understood by Catholics, or indeed any Protestant denominations I am familiar with. It's bogus "spirituality" has more to do with superstition, magic and occultism than Christianity. As a matter of fact (recorded in AA's own official biography of him, "Pass it On") this movement's co-founder Bill Wilson was an enthusiastic lifelong participant in séances in which he claimed to contact the spirits of the dead.

AA also explicitly encourages the heresy of indifferentism, which suggests that any conception of God (euphemistically downgraded in AA to "higher power") is as good as any other. Even the absurd notion that people can pray to things like light bulbs, doorknobs or chairs is routinely suggested in AA meetings as a step on the way to abdicating responsibility for one's own life and trusting implicitly that Alcoholics Anonymous has all of the answers one will ever need on how to live one's life.

You may be surprised to know that Alcoholics Anonymous has very little to say about the nature of alcohol addiction as a health problem, but has a great deal to say about the supposed importance of embracing some very strange concepts concerning the nature of God, the purpose of prayer and the notion that "spiritual diseases" exist. These ideas are not really compatible with mainstream Christianity, although they may share some features with eccentric sects like Christian Science.

Alcoholics Anonymous had its origins in the 1930s in an evangelising protestant sect known as the Oxford Group, run by the Rev. Frank Buchman. This movement was highly controversial, partly because of accusations of deceptive recruiting and religious heresy (Catholics were actually banned by the Vatican from participating in it) and partly because of the notorious far-right political sympathies of its leader who openly praised Hitler.

The sacrament of Confession, familiar to me as a baptised Catholic is sacrilegiously distorted in AA so that one is encouraged to divulge one's guiltiest secrets (supposedly with God's blessing) to an AA "sponsor" whose only qualification to hear them is that he or she has been a drunkard. Such a person is, of course, unordained, untrained, unaccountable and not sworn to secrecy.

This organisation has a morbid and sickly religiosity which is entirely its own and is not compatible with Christianity. To anyone who is involved with it for any length of time it becomes clear that its "spirituality" is a matter of making AA itself the central authority and guide in one's life, not God. This becomes very clear as one hears old-established members talk with undisguised contempt and disdain about the Christian religion, whilst literally giving AA writings such as the so-called "Big Book" (really called "Alcoholics Anonymous") the same reverence and affording it the same authority as Christians would reserve for the Bible.

AA successfully misrepresents itself to the outside world as a no-strings-attached self-help and support group. In reality it is closer to being a peculiar and exclusive medico-religious cult. Despite its protestations of ecumenical religious open-mindedness, it actually requires beliefs and practices which set it quite apart from any other religion and make it a de facto religion in its own right.

I know quite a lot about this organisation because in the past I had a problem with drinking too much. I am pleased to say that this is no longer an issue, but for a time I did become involved with the movement. However, I was repelled by its heretical religiosity, its dishonesty and the obvious danger of some of its practices to the mentally ill or vulnerable.

I don't think this movement should be taken at face value, any more than should, say, the Moonies or Scientology (who also run a plausible addiction "recovery" program). In particular, AA's claim that there is nothing in its teachings that can possibly conflict with a person's prior religious beliefs needs close examination. I don't believe that claim stands up to honest scrutiny.

I am not alone in having these concerns. There has for some considerable time been a growing body of criticism of AA in print and on the internet amongst ex-members, mental health professionals, researchers and members of churches about the unaccountable way this movement intrudes a skewed and loaded "spiritual" agenda into supposed help for vulnerable people.

I hope you don't mind my airing these views. When I first heard of Alcoholics Anonymous I assumed it to be an obviously benign movement, but considerable firsthand experience of the organisation and its message has caused me to think differently.
Yours sincerely

God damn it, get me a whiskey

Bill W, Deathbed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc

Clara's picture

Must not have been very effective...

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

I only found it when I found the OP. It will be used though, don't you worry...lol. And now everyone has got access to it. In fact, thanks for the spur Clara, the Roadies have taken over a large church in town. I'll e-mail a copy to the priest now. Have to check which denomination he is though...lol

Addition : That's sent, and what a turn up. I know the minister from Brighton...lol. At least he's got the same name...lol

God damn it, get me a whiskey

Bill W, Deathbed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc

Clara's picture

I think it is funny that you'd use something that has simply been used as a funny thing said in meetings but taking it as gospel. Get back with me about what you hear on the subject. I've heard people say they have a hair on their butt, too, yet it isn't included.

But good for you. Much better use of your time than obsessing over why a woman is on this blog. My money is that it won't produce what you would like it to.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

You're not being rigorously honest there Clara. Trying to muddy the issue with untruths. Better ring your sponsor...lol.

Since you've brought it up - WHY ARE YOU HERE???? You still haven't answered.

What was the "funny thing said in meetings"?

Sorry to hear about your hairy butt, or have I misread something?...lol

God damn it, get me a whiskey

Bill W, Deathbed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc

Clara's picture

But asking the same question and getting the same response that you don't like isn't the same as not answering you or being untruthful.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

WHY ARE YOU HERE?

God damn it, get me a whiskey

Bill W, Deathbed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc

Clara's picture

You are my best teacher on this site, Ben. Just because you don't like the answer doesn't mean that I haven't provided you with a true answer.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

Stepping 101...lol

God damn it, get me a whiskey

Bill W, Deathbed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc

Clara's picture

No, Ben. There are some people that simply cannot accept a simple answer and you are one of them. We differ on something, but our approaches to how we treat people and issues are completely different. I am glad to have my way, and you are welcome to yours. I can see how much happiness it brings. I haven't once been reduced to yelling, cursing, massive emoting. I cannot believe you'd let a Yank have this much of your mental space. Let me know what the response is from you email. I would doubt that you get more than a cursory email acknowlegement, but I could be wrong.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

If something pisses me off, I say so and let it out. I don't hide it and leave it to fester. You seem to be getting a little rankled there too. Just remember, I'm allowed to get angry, you're not...lol

God damn it, get me a whiskey

Bill W, Deathbed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc

Clara's picture

You sure do. I am not rankled in the least, but sure we can get angry. It's a matter of keeping things porportional. I don't know where you get that AAs cannot be angry.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

........resentments were a luxury alcoholics couldn't afford? Or some such crap?

God damn it, get me a whiskey

Bill W, Deathbed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc

........resentments were a luxury alcoholics couldn't afford? Or some such crap?

God damn it, get me a whiskey

Bill W, Deathbed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc

causeandeffect's picture

Ben, it's really their favorite card to play. I was just rereading another thread. The debate was completely respectful and was with someone I've known for a very long time to be respectful in all communications, even when respect is completely undeserved. And of course, Clara played the angry card. It's all they have really and it's used as a form of control in AA. It must be baffling to her that it's not snapping us right in line!

Clara's picture

What's baffling is how angry Ben got and that he says everyone is pissed off.

What thread are you talking about?

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

I'm not angry. It's more like the frustration you feel when a child just won't do what it's told.

WHY ARE YOU HERE??????

And I never said everyone was pissed off. Twisting the truth again you naughty stepper...lol. I said people get pissed off with you I think. Anyone not understand what that means let me know.

God damn it, get me a whiskey

Bill W, Deathbed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc

Trisha K.'s picture

not important...

“The more I traveled the more I realized that fear makes strangers of people who should be friends.”
Shirley MacLaine

causeandeffect's picture

Oh look, danny's started deleting his own post again. Afraid your gonna get banned again, danny?

To do what trolls do, derail, annoy, be argumentative, disruptive, mean.......................

"I welcome all allies in the fight against A.A. hegemony" -Orange

www.leavingaa.com

NA DAYTONA- Violent Criminals Being Mandated to AA and NA Meetings
http://nadaytona.org/alcoholics-anonymous-votes-no-to-protect-members-fr...

Clara's picture

He can't help it. I've learned three new things today to investigate.

But why do you fault AA and NA for selling literature? According to the website on SMART (and, no, there are no meetings in EP), they have their own literature and tool "chest." Ours in a spiritual toolbox. Can someone share what their policy is on medications? I can't get the link to pull up.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

Clara's picture

the doorknob anecdote. So far, you are the only person in five years that I have ever had the pleasure to "know" that actually believed anyone thinks it is true.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

AA does - isn't a doorknob anything but yourself? And how about the lunatic I just told you about who now has Zeus as his HP? AA accept that, not sure about the Christian Church...lol

God damn it, get me a whiskey

Bill W, Deathbed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc

Clara's picture

It's meant as a joke. You are the only person that didn't get it.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

He's the guy with Zeus as his HP. Sod anonymity - I didn't sign anything...lol

God damn it, get me a whiskey

Bill W, Deathbed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc

Pennywise's picture

Clara, it is statements like this that make me wonder whether you really go to AA. I have heard, many, many people in AA say in all seriousness that praying to a doorknob (or radiator) is acceptable.

"I will not agree to anything which is opposed to the unity of the Universal Church, no matter who may try to persuade me,..." ~ Oath of Boniface

Trisha K.'s picture

No doubt in your mind that I believe this....lol Thanks for sharing Penny.

“The more I traveled the more I realized that fear makes strangers of people who should be friends.”
Shirley MacLaine

"No doubt in your mind that I believe this." - are you sure you meant to say that?...lol

God damn it, get me a whiskey

Bill W, Deathbed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc

Trisha K.'s picture

I felt it made as much sense as what he said. Funny troll, Penny never said a word about my post.

“The more I traveled the more I realized that fear makes strangers of people who should be friends.”
Shirley MacLaine

What you were trying to say was "No doubt in MY mind that YOU believe this" - that makes sense.

"No doubt in your mind that I believe this." doesn't make sense. getting there yet?...lol

God damn it, get me a whiskey

Bill W, Deathbed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc

Pennywise's picture

Doubt all you want, but I've been to a hell of a lot of meetings. You're not dealing with someone who didn't just go to a handful of meetings here. I know the Big Book, 12&12, and other AA dogma solid. I wish I didn't, but I do.

"I will not agree to anything which is opposed to the unity of the Universal Church, no matter who may try to persuade me,..." ~ Oath of Boniface

Trisha K.'s picture

Singularly...I believe.
I have heard much on this forum that I don't doubt some of you heard. I have come to believe in a power greater then myself and that would be the "stories" described by some here.

“The more I traveled the more I realized that fear makes strangers of people who should be friends.”
Shirley MacLaine

Pennywise's picture

I don't know what this means.

"I will not agree to anything which is opposed to the unity of the Universal Church, no matter who may try to persuade me,..." ~ Oath of Boniface

That one was too far out to even decipher a little of it...lol

God damn it, get me a whiskey

Bill W, Deathbed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc

causeandeffect's picture

All it means is that danny loves the sound of his own typing. LOL!

Have you noticed he's actually answering to Danny now?...lol

God damn it, get me a whiskey

Bill W, Deathbed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc

causeandeffect's picture

It happens when he slips from one personality to the next.

Trisha K.'s picture

Penny, that was the intention. Hows it feel. We have had to read post after post that absolutely makes no sense at all nor has a shred of truth. IMHO!

“The more I traveled the more I realized that fear makes strangers of people who should be friends.”
Shirley MacLaine

Clara has not had to endure anything. You have not had to read post after post. You choose to come here and read. Or are you powerless over the OP forum as well as alcohol? I don't understand your purpose.

"If I forget who I am, I am myself. If I remember who I am, I am you."

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