I took out an Ad for Smart Recovery- I challenge you ...

massive's picture
Submitted by massive on Tue, 02/21/2012 - 09:47

Forums:

One way to beat them at their own game is to promote other choices (not alternatives) to AA/NA. SO I have taken out my very first ad.

I know AA must be exposed and blah blah blah, but We, I can promote Smart, Rational, WFS, SOS and such to enlighten the world that AA is not the only way.

This is the kind of thing that AA did in its early years especially in the 1950's. Marty Mann went around and spoke to the biggest 500 companies in America and she did this promoting AA for the first 5 years of the National Council on Alcoholism. She used this Non profit to promote AA under the guise of "caring".

I plan on not only exposing AA in my Documentary but really highlighting the power of empowering choices that are sane, non religious and CURRENT!!!

If all of us here can write and send letters to professionals. If anyone can take out the smallest ad promoting your favorite choice ...If you can write your own personal horror story and send it to your local newspaper, if you can tell every professional you know about the truth about 12 step we can make change.

I am not stupid. Hollywood seems to be in love with AA. Too many stars have attended and promote it with their shows like Nurse Jackie.

If anyone needs a good letter to send, I had a blogger help me write a really great letter to a Professionals exposing all of this. makeaasafer@gmail.com

JR Harris's picture

JR Harris

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 04:47

Wow, are you ever lucky. So what type of "lawyers" are your AA Sponsor and his AA wife? Let me guess..... divorce, bankruptcy....? You got tag teamed by pro's.....

You should feel honored. Did they help your current husband in his divorce from his wife by either filing papers or giving referrals? It's always god to keep it in the AA family you know.

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

Clara's picture

Clara

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 06:40

My sponsor and his wife are old family friends. They work for separate firms, and his work is primarily criminal work. Most of his cases have to do with charges someone got while boozed or coked up. My husband's divorce was handled in a different state with an attorney with no AA affiliation.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

JR Harris's picture

JR Harris

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 07:53

Since they have a lot of criminal cases that have to do with alcohol or drugs, how are they prevented from recruiting clients in the fellowship? Even better than that, lawyers make anywhere from a few hundred dollars an hour to thousands. How can they allow AA, meetings, Sponsorship and responsibilities that go along with it to interfere with that.

Sorry, I have to call BS.................... things don't add up.

Is your husband at a meeting right now, or is he doing a 4th Step with a female sponcee? Like Laureano Sifuentes in Boulder, Colorado?

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/30431327/detail.html

"BOULDER, Colo. -- A sponsor for an Alcoholics Anonymous group in Boulder is accused of sexually assaulting a member he had offered to help.

Longmont police arrested Laureano Sifuentes, 64, Wednesday night on suspicion of unlawful sexual contact. Sifuentes posted bond Thursday morning.

Boulder detectives have been investigating Sifuentes since November 2011 when a woman reported that Sifuentes had touched her inappropriately during a meeting that he had scheduled at a Boulder hotel.

The woman said he persuaded two women in the AA group that he would help them through one of the AA steps. That step is about disclosing information about past wrongs to one other person, and it's usually done one-on-one in a private setting, Boulder police spokeswoman Kim Kobel said.

Sifuentes arranged a meeting at a hotel in Boulder and the victim, along with another female in the AA group, agreed to attend, Kobel said.

The victim said that during their meeting, Sifuentes touched her sexually. She fled the hotel and called to have someone pick her up at another location.

The other woman did not see what allegedly occurred, but did observe the alleged victim fleeing the hotel, Boulder police said.

Sifuentes has previous arrests in 1998 and 2000 for driving under the influence of alcohol.

Anyone with information about this case is asked to call Detective Colleen Wilcox at 303-441-4483. Those who have information but wish to remain anonymous may contact the Northern Colorado Crime Stoppers at 1-800-222-TIPS (8477) or 1-800-444-3776.

Tips can also be submitted through the Crime Stoppers website. Those submitting tips through Crime Stoppers that lead to the arrest and filing of charges on a suspect(s) may be eligible for a cash reward of up to $1,000 from Crime Stoppers."

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

Ironic's picture

Ironic

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 08:30

I bet he asks the judge for leniency for his clients. I bet when he makes a plea bargain for these clients, mandatory AA meetings are involved every time.

Trisha K.'s picture

Trisha K.

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 08:32

I understand where you are trying to go here but I am going to have to pass judgment here and call this an outside issue. We can not determine from the article if the two women were being truthful. I would say BS because why would two women go to a hotel room to do a 4th and 5th step with a 64 year old male.
This case will be thrown out of court. My judgment.

“The more I traveled the more I realized that fear makes strangers of people who should be friends.”
Shirley MacLaine

Ironic's picture

Ironic

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 08:40

for some crazy reason, they think they can trust AA members. The girls were in a VERY vulnerable place and trusted this "AA guru" when he said he would help them.

I wouldn't have been dumb enough to do that, but then again I never had the "willingness." I bet the women in the group didn't tell the girls that this man was a predator.

This is not an outside issue at all. It is an issue affecting a woman's safety in AA, IN the rooms. Sounds like the exact opposite of an outside issue.

Trisha K.'s picture

Trisha K.

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 08:53

Two women do not go to a hotel with a 64 year old man to discuss life altering events. Why two women? Sounds to me like the plan did not happen the way it was intended to. For all involved.

“The more I traveled the more I realized that fear makes strangers of people who should be friends.”
Shirley MacLaine

Ironic's picture

Ironic

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 08:59

in that I am making assumptions as to what they were thinking.

I would never again go to AA, or get a sponsor, so I would never ever actually trust that person. My bullshit detector was always going off at those meetings, but hell, some people drink the kool-aid, obviously. Some people believe that their sponsors have their best interests at heart and wouldn't hurt them.

Persephone In Exile's picture

Persephone In Exile

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 09:04

Excuse me, how again is this supposed to be an outside issue?

http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/

Trisha K.'s picture

Trisha K.

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 09:09

The hotel constitutes an outside issue. Throw in 2 women and a 64 year old male and I think this would settle it.

“The more I traveled the more I realized that fear makes strangers of people who should be friends.”
Shirley MacLaine

btnben's picture

btnben

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 09:26

Wouldn't a 64 year old male AA sponsor paint a different picture? Are you saying the women went along expecting to be propositioned? By a 64 year old male?

God damn it, get me a whiskey

Bill W, Deathbed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc

Persephone In Exile's picture

Persephone In Exile

Wed, 02/22/2012 - 16:21

Don't presume an apology, Marietta, when there wasn't one.

Funny how someone supposedly new to a forum accused of being someone else seems not the least bit shocked or upset, not even willing to defend that charge, doesn't it?

http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/

Clara's picture

Clara

Wed, 02/22/2012 - 16:29

Pers, it is simply isn't important to me, so why would I be shocked or upset? I did read an apology in the first sentence. I don't get your defensiveness or that you consider something to be a "charge." The poster simply is in error. No more to it than that, and it isn't unusual in blogland for someone to try to create a non-starter.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

btnben's picture

btnben

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 04:36

"Pers"? Change one letter and you've got Marietta's pet name for PIE. Clara has a very similar response frequency to M too. The plot thickens...lol

God damn it, get me a whiskey

Bill W, Deathbed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc

AntiDenial

Wed, 02/22/2012 - 16:48

You would have no reason to lie or to misrepresent yourself unless of course you are Marietta.

Criminals In Alcoholics Anonymous and Narcotics Anonymous
www.nadaytona.org

Clara's picture

Clara

Wed, 02/22/2012 - 16:52

Anti, your logic makes no sense. I have no reason to lie or to misrepresent myself if I am not Marietta. I think you are being silly.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

btnben's picture

btnben

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 04:38

" I think you are being silly." - Trading insults after just a couple of days? Seems like the actions of an "old timer" rather than a "Newcomer"...lol

God damn it, get me a whiskey

Bill W, Deathbed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc

Clara's picture

Clara

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 06:42

I don't think that I am trading insults, and I never initiated any poor behavior. As for my time on the computer, I spend a great deal of time blogging as I enjoy it. One of the perks of being retired!

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

Ironic's picture

Ironic

Wed, 02/22/2012 - 16:50

Interesting thought, PiE.

However, I'm not utterly convinced. marietta is smart enough to pull it off, though.

Clara's picture

Clara

Wed, 02/22/2012 - 16:52

How smart do you have to be to just consider that it could be someone else?

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

Persephone In Exile's picture

Persephone In Exile

Wed, 02/22/2012 - 18:12

Apologies ahead of time if I turn out to be wrong, of course. Hopefully I am completely wrong, and you, Clara, think the mere idea of wishing harm to someone's hypothetical unborn children is an egregiously unforgivable thing to do on a web forum.

http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/

btnben's picture

btnben

Wed, 02/22/2012 - 18:21

......Marietta tonight?...lol

God damn it, get me a whiskey

Bill W, Deathbed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc

causeandeffect's picture

causeandeffect

Wed, 02/22/2012 - 19:39

Hmmm, I didn’t want to believe Marietta would create a sock, but her absence is suspicious. My opinion was that she is far too proud to take anything from the profoundly ignorant danny’s playbook, but now I’m not so sure. Speaking of the profoundly ignorant danny, he left me a cryptic message that he was indeed perplexity, along with a veiled threat on another site. It took a minute to hit me, but check it out…

http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=8046762&postcount=6573

Still, I don’t want to be too paranoid that every stepper that comes here to defend their faith is a puppet.

Troll free AA critical forum
http://www.expaa.org/

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it." ~ Neil deGrasse Tyson

AntiDenial

Wed, 02/22/2012 - 19:56

You are not being paranoid. I am pretty sure Clara= Marietta.
Wack a mole-troll................ Lets not feed the trolls.

Criminals In Alcoholics Anonymous and Narcotics Anonymous
www.nadaytona.org

Clara's picture

Clara

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 06:51

I frankly don't understand the hostility. Some people are very happy in the A programs. Others weren't and so they left. It's all okay to me.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

Clara's picture

Clara

Wed, 02/22/2012 - 18:49

What on earth are you talking about?

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

JR Harris's picture

JR Harris

Wed, 02/22/2012 - 18:55

"Social engineering, in the context of security, is understood to mean the art of manipulating people into performing actions or divulging confidential information.[1] While it is similar to a confidence trick or simple fraud, the term typically applies to trickery or deception for the purpose of information gathering, fraud, or computer system access; in most cases the attacker never comes face-to-face with the victims.

"Social engineering" as an act of psychological manipulation was popularized by hacker-turned-consultant Kevin Mitnick. The term had previously been associated with the social sciences, but its usage has caught on among computer professionals.[2]"

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_engineering_%28security%29

We are a little gun shy.......

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

Clara's picture

Clara

Wed, 02/22/2012 - 19:20

What does it have to do with attacking unborn children?

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

Persephone In Exile's picture

Persephone In Exile

Wed, 02/22/2012 - 19:58

It's horrible, isn't it? For someone to do that on a forum? I was shocked, personally.

http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/

Clara's picture

Clara

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 06:55

I don't know the context, but to do it at all would be in poor taste.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

btnben's picture

btnben

Wed, 02/22/2012 - 17:33

The last few weeks have, maybe, made us a little over-sensitive in the trolldar department. If I'm wrong, it won't be the first time I've eaten humble pie...lol. Clara has a different pov to the majority on here, but she has conducted herself with good manners and decorum. Perhaps a little bit of innocent until proven guilty wouldn't go amiss. (Jesus - did I type that?...lol)

God damn it, get me a whiskey

Bill W, Deathbed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc

AntiDenial

Wed, 02/22/2012 - 18:26

I know Ben-Clara sounds so much like Marietta trying to be on good behavior.
But I will keep an open mind, but we have not heard from Marietta have we?
I have known many trolls when they come back try to be at least to be a tad different.
Even with typos. But anyway time will tell.

Criminals In Alcoholics Anonymous and Narcotics Anonymous
www.nadaytona.org

btnben's picture

btnben

Wed, 02/22/2012 - 18:29

I can see both sides. I agree with you in part. M & Clara have such similar outlooks, I'm surprised they're not chatting away together. Only time will tell.

God damn it, get me a whiskey

Bill W, Deathbed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc

btnben's picture

btnben

Wed, 02/22/2012 - 18:52

Clara - Have you got bi-polar and a Grammy?

God damn it, get me a whiskey

Bill W, Deathbed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc

Persephone In Exile's picture

Persephone In Exile

Wed, 02/22/2012 - 19:57

LMAO....that has to be the ultimate pick-up line. "Hey, baby, got bi-polar and a grammy and come here often?"

Ahhhh....sorry...goofy tonight.

http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/

btnben's picture

btnben

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 04:41

That's EXACTLY what I thought after I'd typed it. Ain't the absurd simply the greatest?...lol

God damn it, get me a whiskey

Bill W, Deathbed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc

gigi

Wed, 02/22/2012 - 18:51

Clara's not Marietta. She's in Perplexity's entourage, I suspect.

"If I forget who I am, I am myself. If I remember who I am, I am you."

Clara's picture

Clara

Wed, 02/22/2012 - 18:57

No, not bipolar, no Grammy, and I don't know anyone on this forum. But Perse's post was simply bizarre.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

AntiDenial

Wed, 02/22/2012 - 19:00

He is quoting from Marietta, Marietta.

Criminals In Alcoholics Anonymous and Narcotics Anonymous
www.nadaytona.org

Persephone In Exile's picture

Persephone In Exile

Wed, 02/22/2012 - 20:00

Either way, guys, we're all still talking about Marietta.

Dammit.

http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/

Ironic's picture

Ironic

Wed, 02/22/2012 - 20:35

A ban on talking about m*******. We should be enjoying our "private time," guys.

l0l@PiE

causeandeffect's picture

causeandeffect

Wed, 02/22/2012 - 20:43

I agree. This is all a diversion from the issues we are here to talk about. Strange that Clara didn't answer my question though.

Troll free AA critical forum
http://www.expaa.org/

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it." ~ Neil deGrasse Tyson

Clara's picture

Clara

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 06:58

I didn't see a question directed toward me. I am here because I read something online that I thought was interesting, so I came to look at the site. I agree with some of it, but disagree with other bits. And that is fine. I admit that the hostility is surprising.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

Persephone In Exile's picture

Persephone In Exile

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 07:35

Again, apologies if you're not someone else, and to anyone else out there who is pro-AA and encounters hostility on this site. It isn't really personal, sometimes not even ideological, more just a response to the rather intense trolling that has occurred already on this forum. (Another reason perhaps to ban the damned trolls, IMHO. Not the dissenters, just the trolls.)

http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/

Trisha K.'s picture

Trisha K.

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 08:14

Dissenter or Troller? Sometimes I can't tell the difference who is who here.
Thanks for bringing the subject up.

“The more I traveled the more I realized that fear makes strangers of people who should be friends.”
Shirley MacLaine

Persephone In Exile's picture

Persephone In Exile

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 18:27

Well, it's not that difficult. Trolls take over threads, personally attack other posters (and do so regularly), divert the discussion to maddeningly tedious arguments of things that have little to do with the topic. If you merely dissent from the topics at hand, do you really ever need to personally attack people on a regular basis? Ever? Anywhere on the web?

http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/

causeandeffect's picture

causeandeffect

Wed, 02/22/2012 - 20:16

Clara, why are you here?

Troll free AA critical forum
http://www.expaa.org/

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it." ~ Neil deGrasse Tyson

billybudd

Wed, 02/22/2012 - 20:35

could it be?

PISsed off (Persecution Insistence Syndrome): If she's not out to get you, that's a certain sign that she's out to get you.
LEM (Law of the Excluded Marietta): Denying one is marietta proves one is marietta.

JR Harris's picture

JR Harris

Wed, 02/22/2012 - 20:47

You didn't get here by accident...... Look for the similarities, not the differences......

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

live_free_or_die's picture

live_free_or_die

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 18:21

looking for an ass to kiss. Or maybe he is just an AssHat.

Alcoholics Anonymous: MyNotGodHasItCovered®
http://www.expaa.org/
http://bereanresearch.com/
http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/
NOT AA:
Rational Recovery, SOS, HAMS
http://alcoholabusesolutions.com/

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