AA/NA Attendance sheets, to sign or not to sign?

Attendance sheets to prove that you have been to a required amount of Alcoholics Anonymous or Narcotics Anonymous meetings to a court, parole officer, probation officer, Department of Vehicles (DMV) agency or secondary agency, Rehab, sober home or halfway house are always a touchy subject.

If you forge the chairpersons signature there is always the possibility that it will be detected and a problem arises whether it is actually forged or not. All of the entities that require these signatures have to prove it either way. How do they do that in an Anonymous organization?

If someone forges a chairpersons signature on one of these cards, will these agencies somehow contact the chairperson in question breaking their Anonymity? Will a probation officer or member of the court get your home phone number or address from someone? Who would be responsible for this?

The General Service Representatives (GSR) and District Committee Members (DCM) are the ones that coordinate the "Corrections Committees" to go into jails and prisons to bring these members into their groups and most likely they will be looked at to fulfill the card signing. Do they put their names on these cards, or do they get someone else to do it? If the coerced attendant at an AA or NA meeting is sent to the groups by a medical professional, should the signers be required to follow the privacy laws of HIPPA and CFR42 and get a release to verify attendance? If a group votes not to sign court and attendance slips and the District or Area regularly sends Corrections Committees into bringing members in from jails and prisons, should they be de-listed from that area?

Can a court check the names of the signatures on an AA attendance sheets?
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20081217001219AAkwe5p

Court Ordered AA
http://members.aa-meetings.com/profiles/blogs/court-ordered-aa

Forged signature on AA attendance sheet
http://forum.freeadvice.com/drunk-driving-dui-dwi-27/forged-signature-aa...

A.A. Guidelines - Cooperating with Court, D.W.I. and Similar
http://www.aa.org/lang/en/en_pdfs/mg-05_coopwithcourt.pdf

What is the correct answers?

Comments

DeConstructor's picture

the verification was through the requirement of obtaining a sponsor that was contactable by my sentencer.

Perhaps this is where the industry and the sentencing entities will go. This can open up a really big can of worms, particularly if your sentencer has been in contact with the sponsor who ends up be a sexual or violent predator. This really cannot work effectively without a thorough vetting process for sponsors, and will undoubtedly create some very sticky situations with huge liability.

In my case, I was getting personal counseling from Jack Trimpey, founder of Rational Recovery, who was not cooperative with my AA nazi EAP dude. At one point, my AA nazi EAP dude wrote 'Rational Recovery has nothing beneficial to offer anyone in recovery'

I think from our standpoint it would be a good thing for these sentencing agencies to verify AA participation. To say the least this will open a can of worms that cannot be closed again. Additionally, fundamentalist steppers should backlash against the idea, potentially causing a war between sentencing agencies and the AA faith.

It is stupid for us to continue waging war on several fronts when there is the potential to get them to fight each other.

JR Harris's picture

This FAQ was Posted June 2006 and Revised August 2011 and does have some very good information. You may be interested in "Do I have a right to my medical records?"

Medical Privacy FAQ
https://www.privacyrights.org/fs/fs8b-MedFAQ.htm#8

~You can not moderate the internet. Just don't lie, steal or make stuff up out of thin air and expect to get away with it without it being pointed out to you. It's really very simple.~

massive's picture

Decon-Great point. Getting them to fight themselves.

I went to a pretty interesting SAG meeting and in it we were told the pension has been comprimised and hundreds of millions stolen. There is serious problems going on at the top of The Screen Actors Guild. So someone asked the questions about Trustees . Can they be sued. The Answer by the whisler blowing lawyer was yes. What a horror story he told. We were there for 4 hours.

Someone in the back yelled out about insurance that covers them . Again the lawyer replied "if you know that criminal behavior is going on and you do nothing you can be sued. hmmm I had never looked at the trustees on The Board of Alcoholics Anonymous in this way. It seems that one activism , whether it be Occupy , AA Safety or the Screen actors Guild. It all helps each case.

We learn the facts, the laws, out rights and we fight for our rights, justice and for victims who have no voice.

Massive

massive's picture

I say dont sign them. Make them the courts deal with them in the courthouse. It too dangerous.
Sue them all.

Or let them come in droves and all good AA 's will leave and AA will collapse on it's own.

Massive

I know what the answer was for me. I faked it til I made it.

really doubt if any court officials are verifying signatures/attendance. In fact I was always amazed that court ordered attendees didn't just forge and skip the meeting attendance nonsense.

There is no possible way for the court officials or probation/parole officers to verify the signatures. The closest to that they could do would be to cross reference all of the slips they have turned in to verify that the slips signed at the same meeting on the same week matched, but most would be too busy or lazy to do that. I forged them when I was sentenced to them, and would do it again if I were ever again in such a situation. I don't advocate dishonesty, but in this case it's acceptable because one is only protecting their right not to have religion forced upon them.

Dennis M.
"They are not at fault, they seem to have been brainwashed that way."

jonnijoy's picture

If you got caught lying to the probation dept. or judge about attending AA or any mandated program, they would absolutely violate you. It would be worse than testing dirty. You would go straight to jail and i am pretty sure the judge would give you a harsh sentence.
I held the secretary position in a good sized meeting in the 2001. The court mandates would put their slips in the money basket in the beginning of the mtg. I would sign their slips right away and most of them would leave immediately. The other secretaries would hold on to the slips until the end of mtg. to make sure they stayed til the end. What good could AA or any other self help group do if they do not want to be clean?

The "Yahoo Answers" link referenced above notes that "AA keeps a log of who ran what meeting". Time out. Whatever happened to the "AA keeps no records assertion"? Once a paper trail of "who ran what when" is established, how much further is it before a "log" is kept of "first names", or "number of attendees" per meeting? I sense the "Anonymity" basis of AA is being SOLD OUT in the interest of having the continuing flow of COERCED bodies sent to them, that can be "verified" by said coercing authority. God, what a pathetic double-standard!

that istj is a gullible idiot. Remote as this may appear, I read it on the internet; IT MUST BE TRUE! Surely he has been COERCED to swallow whole outrageous bunk because he called "Time out".

So there, voila, and QED, MFers!

JR Harris's picture

Currently it is common practice in all regions in the continental US that at Narcotics Anonymous and Alcoholics Anonymous meetings for the chairperson or a "trusted servant" to count the number of people and the number of total donations received and place them in a book. The donations are then normally put in a sealed envelope and dated/and or initialed, occasionally the name and initial of the chairperson is put on the envelope to provide a chain of custody to make sure that no one walks off with the money. In the case of an Intergroup hosting a "speaker meeting" a trusted servant of the Intergroup does this.

Dependent upon the sophistication and size of the Intergroup, a monthly newspaper or flyer is normally produced that contains birthday anniversaries in it with the first name and last initial along with the number of months and years of continuous sobriety. These flyers are often stored for download on the Intergroup website. By downloading a one year period of these flyers it is possible to determine the size of the group with the Spiritual disease of Alcoholism and a list of all members with first names, last initial and length of sobriety that will most likely be accurate to about plus or minus 10%.

~You can not moderate the internet. Just don't lie, steal or make stuff up out of thin air and expect to get away with it without it being pointed out to you. It's really very simple.~

DeConstructor's picture

or the meeting before the meeting.

People should be careful of the people coming up and introducing themself etc. around the meetings.

Do not give these people phone numbers, emails, physical address etc. In fact I would never use a real name.

The people are dangerous. The old timers are calling dibbs on the young girls there for a sentencing obligation.

There is no such thing as anonymity in these cases.

JR Harris's picture

Especially if you are coerced into AA or NA meetings, the best way to introduce yourself is through the use of a nickname that you are not usually identified by. Nicknames such as "Chicago", "Jersey" or something less identifying such as "Big Ox" or something like that is best. If you are coerced and especially if forced to get a sponsor the purchase of the cheapest disposable phone and plan you can get is a good option to protect your real phone number and prevent the cult from infecting your life. Do not take your real phone with you, leave it in a car or at home so that it doesn't accidentally go off when you are in danger of someone in the cult finding out your real number. Under no circumstances is it advisable to allow a Sponsor or another member of the cult to meet your friends or family.

~You can not moderate the internet. Just don't lie, steal or make stuff up out of thin air and expect to get away with it without it being pointed out to you. It's really very simple.~

One for you: Dumbfuck. Better safe than sorry.

JR Harris's picture

Billybudd is a very nondescript name that provides no exact geographical hints to the background of the prospect to the prospect hunter, it does give a hint of being in a Southern region though.

~You can not moderate the internet. Just don't lie, steal or make stuff up out of thin air and expect to get away with it without it being pointed out to you. It's really very simple.~

you're here to unmask their fiendish plans.

"The people are dangerous."

If we rid the world of people and their "calling dibbs", so safe for ...?

marietta davis's picture

A head count and a dollar count is not a spy mission. And "Yahoo Answers" is the authority on this Conspiracy Theory Log?

Please.

JR Harris's picture

It really is quite easy. Would you like me to pick Chicago?

~You can not moderate the internet. Just don't lie, steal or make stuff up out of thin air and expect to get away with it without it being pointed out to you. It's really very simple.~

DeConstructor's picture

letting the inmates run the asylum was not a good idea. Giving them ANY credibility a worse idea.

One needs to go no further than the trolling mental cases here, who apparently assume they will recovert some of us back to their pod people cult.

Professionals would be much better than amateurs, particularly when medication needs to be adjusted, as we continue to see on this site.