The Most Dangerous Chapter in the BB

JR Harris's picture
Submitted by JR Harris on Sun, 04/24/2011 - 15:46

Forums:

I am paraphrasing all of quotes to stay away from speaking AA.

The most dangerous chapter in the Big Book is Chapter 7 (not a very lucky number) is entitled "WORKING WITH OTHERS" pages 89 to 103. This is the chapter that is studied heavily by a stepper so they can become a Sponsor. They will underline phrases in it to understand how they can make someone a permanent member of AA. If you have a sponsor you may want to find out what passages they have underlined to access how they got into your life and the tactics they used.

Pg. 89

* Start helping other Alcoholics so that it can help in your recovery.
* Secure their confidence.
* Alcoholics are are very ill.
* Have frequent contact with newcomers.
* If you can not find any Alcoholics to save go to doctors, ministers, priests or hospitals. They will be more than happy to assist you.
* You are only trying to be helpful (notice the contradiction from the first key point)

Pg. 90

* Discover a Prospect.
* Find out all about them (research)
* If there is any indication that they want to join AA talk to the spouse. (research through the family)
* Find out his background, behavior, problems and religious affiliation.(Research prospect)
* Use this information to formulate a plan to get them to join. (Decide how to get them to join AA)
* Wait until they go on a binge to contact them. (They are vulnerable at this stage)
* Make them believe you are the only one that can help them.
* Make hints to the family on how to handle him, leave a BB where they can find it. (leave bait for the new prospect)

Pg. 91

* Urge the family to not be over anxious that might spoil yor plans. (getting the family envolved again)
* Usually the best person to get involved is a doctor or institution (try to get them into rehab)
* If he gets to rehab, try and see him when he is thier still jittery (he's vulnerable, you put him there and make sure you are he realizes you are his only way out.)
* See your prospect alone if possible. (No one to interfere and no witnesses)
* Get him to tell you some of his drinking stories (more research)

Pg. 92

* Tell him you are an alcoholic and understand him. (gain their confidence)
* If you decide they are an Alcoholic continue (you have found a good prospect)
* Tell them that they have a fatal disease and doctors won't tell them that (they have you alone and no witnesses)
* Hopefully their Doctor will tell them they are an alcoholic (if the Doctor that you actually sent him to agrees the better)

Pg. 93

* Tell him about yourself (alone and gain his confidence)
* Stress Spirituality (get him to join AA)
* Tell him its Spiritual and not Religious (bait and switch, confuse him with terms)
* Tell him about a Higher Power (stress its not religious)
* Tell him they can use their own Religion if they have one (obvious contradiction from above)

Pg. 94

* Outline a plan of action on trying to make them to join AA (Planning next steps)
* Tell him your doing this to help your recovery (play on his empathy)
* Tell him it will make everyone around him happy. (play on his empathy)
* Let them rebel if they want to (don't push, you have him on the hook good)
* Try to lend him a copy of your book . (leave bait for the new prospect)

Pg. 95

* Let the prospect think about it for a while (give him some line so you can set the hook real good)
* Let him go on a few more binges, he'll come back after he hurts for a while. (wait to set the hook)
* Hopefully he will find God (religion)
* Tell him that if he does not join he will face the consequences (death)

Pg. 96

* If your prospect doesn't take the hook, its OK just go find another prospect, (take your time, they'll come crawling back)
* If they come back make sure they read the book (give out more bait)
* Don't give any money any kind of aid unless you can afford it (AA doesn't pay it's new salesmen anything)

Pg. 97

* If the prospect doesn't bite on his own try and get him to hit bottom and get him committed to a rehab.( go the doctor route)
* Be nice to the family and let them know you are there to help.(get to them through the family)

Pg. 98

Sorry I can't finish outlining this piece. These last 5 pages outline how to get them to believe in GOD and play with them and their families more.This is the most vile document I have ever read.

Persephone In Exile's picture

Persephone In Exile

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 20:31

Is Clara Angie Dickinson or Carrie Fisher?

http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/

JR Harris's picture

JR Harris

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 20:40

You can tell from the neck and hair style. The avatar doesn't blow up because of the resolution. I believe that is Carrie Fisher, it definitely isn't Angie Dickinson on the left.

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

Persephone In Exile's picture

Persephone In Exile

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 22:26

Look at the whole gallery. Angie Dickinson, Clancy Imislund, Carrie Fisher are the people listed for this photo. Just don't ask me how I have such gigantic holes in my memory but can still recognize someone like Angie Dickinson (?!?!).
http://movies.msn.com/celebrities/celebrity-photos/angie-dickinson/?phot...

http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/

Clara's picture

Clara

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 07:00

Thank you, friend. I can't imagine that someone would so desperately want to discredit someone that they would outrightly lie. Gasp! Could that mean that they would also misrepresent anything else that they want to have people believe? Angie is still a babe, isn't she? But I have never been confused with such absolute certainty with Carrie Fisher in my life. Everything that has been lobbed at me over the past few days have perfectly reasonable explanations. I blog alot and have alerts on my sites. I can respond when someone has responded to me. I have used my husband's computer when he's willing to share, which has a better keyboard and screen. Mine has problems. I also noted that Anti complained about the confusion the site creates in responding to people on another forum, yet when I did... that meant definitively that I was Marietta. How about the site format just confuses people? When I posted a photo of myself that places me right where I said I was, I was immediately confronted with a photo of myself in the guise of an acadamy award winning actress (not Grammy. That is for musicians...) It's been childish, actually.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

JR Harris's picture

JR Harris

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 07:12

If so, why?

"Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves."

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

Clara's picture

Clara

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 21:20

Neither. Someone just cannot admit to being wrong. Defiance is a hallmark of alcoholics.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

JR Harris's picture

JR Harris

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 21:34

Especially one who follows the "televangelist" AA con men and grovel at their feet. So what does Clancy do to allow him to travel all over the world?

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

Persephone In Exile's picture

Persephone In Exile

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 22:29

Wow. Defiance is the hallmark of lots of other groups of people, too. Really? Stereotyping? This is one of the less pleasant things about xA that I forget but don't much miss. No offense.

http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/

Clara's picture

Clara

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 06:48

None taken. But what about the rest? Good lord, you so much want to believe that you have a celebrity in your midst that created evidence supports your belief. I just don't see anything on this board that you don't claim to see in AA. I've shared a lot about myself, but one can't get anything out of any of those that decided to hone in on me. What took any of you to AA? Did you do anything toward recovery after you left? Why, prescisely, why did any of all y'all have problems with AA? What I have discovered is that people sometime find fault with a person and leave the fellowship. I did that myself with Primary Purpose in Myrtle Beach. But I went to another group because I knew those were just people, not principals.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

Persephone In Exile's picture

Persephone In Exile

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 07:31

Who believes we have a celebrity in our midst?

I didn't come to AA via the normal route. My problem was a different addiction. I did set up my own "program" of sorts, and so far it has worked. I, however, cannot speak for the others here, though everyone's issues with xA seem to be quite similar here.

http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/

Clara's picture

Clara

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 07:45

Then let's talk about those. That is certainly what I have tried to discern. I think when someone is posting a photo in response to your own that shows a different person and calls your own BS, there is a bit of a problem there. I have personally found everything here on this board that some posters claimed to have experienced in AA and in extreme short order. I guess AA really does mirror society. Contempt prior to investigation!

so what was your different addiciton, if you care to disclose? While AA focuses on ALCOHOL, much to the surprise of yet another poster... there are many that have addition addicitions or different ones. While still welcome to be there, AA focuses on alcohol alone and encourages those with other addicitions to save discussion of them for another place.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

Trisha K.'s picture

Trisha K.

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 16:42

"You do realise that that is what this site is about?"

Not to sound foolish, no I don't. Minus a mission statement it looks like a web site with members who have conflicting views about AA.
I have read the OP's and I have not seen where Orange had restrictions on what members could think, write or debate here on his forums. I also did not see where he stipulated one opinion has more relevance then another.

“The more I traveled the more I realized that fear makes strangers of people who should be friends.”
Shirley MacLaine

gigi

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 16:52

What's your opinion?

"If I forget who I am, I am myself. If I remember who I am, I am you."

AntiDenial

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 16:55

It is an anti-AA site for those that have not figured that out.

Criminals In Alcoholics Anonymous and Narcotics Anonymous
www.nadaytona.org

btnben's picture

btnben

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 17:01

1st paragraph

"These essays, which have ended up pretty much making up a whole book, began as my attempt to clarify my own thinking about A.A., and to explain to others why I felt that there was something wrong with people trying to shove Alcoholics Anonymous on patients. I had signed up for a course of outpatient "alcoholism treatment", but ended up getting something more like "Introduction to Cult Religion 101," where most of the "course of treatment" consisted of compulsory attendance of Alcoholics Anonymous or Narcotics Anonymous 12-step meetings, and "group therapy" sessions where xeroxed copies of A.A. and N.A. literature was handed out and discussed by a 12-step true-believer group leader, someone who just assumed that of course everyone who recovers will do it at 12-step meetings..."

And you're trying to tell me that didn't give you a clue to what this site was about?

God damn it, get me a whiskey

Bill W, Deathbed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc

Trisha K.'s picture

Trisha K.

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 18:40

ben you are a member here with the same value as anyone else. Orange wrote down his initial experiences and expanded on them with further study. You can not assume because you agree with all of Oranges conclusions that this somehow gives you a superior presence here.
This site is great because of all the members, I believe Orange is looking for all opinions to be expressed here with respect.

“The more I traveled the more I realized that fear makes strangers of people who should be friends.”
Shirley MacLaine

btnben's picture

btnben

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 18:45

Please show me where I assumed I was superior? Has Danny become Tranny?...lol.

Oranges are oranges, and apples are apples. Or were you meaning the genitive - Orange's?

God damn it, get me a whiskey

Bill W, Deathbed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc

Trisha K.'s picture

Trisha K.

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 18:46

It is very condescending that's all. All I am asking is to be nice. Clara seems like a very nice person.

“The more I traveled the more I realized that fear makes strangers of people who should be friends.”
Shirley MacLaine

btnben's picture

btnben

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 18:48

Danny, Danny, Danny. You can ask to be nice but I've got a feeling you're not...lol

God damn it, get me a whiskey

Bill W, Deathbed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc

JR Harris's picture

JR Harris

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 18:55

This is an anti-12 Step site. If you don't like it, go to another meeting place where you can find the fake serenity of the Bill Wilson brainwashed drones.

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

AntiDenial

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 20:24

Busted!!! Troll alert!!!!!!! This site is NOT great because of all he members. This site is being held back because of trolls like you.

Criminals In Alcoholics Anonymous and Narcotics Anonymous
www.nadaytona.org

Trisha K.'s picture

Trisha K.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 08:38

The members are wonderful. I just requested if we could dial down the condescending remarks. That's all.

“The more I traveled the more I realized that fear makes strangers of people who should be friends.”
Shirley MacLaine

billybudd

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 20:23

THE FORUM IS UP.
http://www.orange-papers.org/forum/
So go ahead and register and give it a try.

== Orange

Clarify, ben, clarify. You too can master that pesky case of obtuse feculence!

JR Harris's picture

JR Harris

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 19:05

AA Sucks

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

billybudd

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 20:29

You need misspell and all-caps that mission statement and maybe throw in some random symbols for full effect.

AND LOTS OF EXCLAMATION POINTS (anything less holds the site back)!!!!

Persephone In Exile's picture

Persephone In Exile

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 14:49

I ended up very much an atheist AFTER the whole recovery business. I don't say this to dog anyone who does put their faith in a higher power of any kind, I really don't mean that at all. For me it was just that I had to do everything myself. No one was going to help me. Other people's version of "help" (and not all of this was 12 step group related at all, either) was disempowering and hurtful. Occasionally criminal. At the very least abusive and highly controlling. I realize not everyone goes through such a dreadful "recovery" process, but I personally just cannot rely on anyone else after it all, certainly not a deity I have no proof (or faith) of existing.

That experience could easily bring some people closer to their deity. For me, it just cancelled it all out any need.

http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/

causeandeffect's picture

causeandeffect

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 14:52

AA brought the ideas of gawd and spirituality fully into the theatre of the absurd for me.

Troll free AA critical forum
http://www.expaa.org/

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it." ~ Neil deGrasse Tyson

Clara's picture

Clara

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 14:53

I'm sorry for those behaviors, and I thank you for your candor.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

avogadno's picture

avogadno

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 15:11

That's what the DOCTOR says too. Paraphrase: "Hopefully he will stay and start praying".

Pro Empowerment!
Truth about AA: http://orange-papers.org/menu1.html
Expose AA: http://www.expaa.org/

avogadno's picture

avogadno

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 15:30

Some say, "It's OK if people choose to work the program". I want to agree with that, but are they really make a choice ? It's more likely that they are told that they have to or will die. Or that it's the only way to get sober. If you believe that, than you aren’t really making a choice, especially since it’s a lie.

If after a couple of meetings they see sober and happy people there, maybe they think that it must work.
Are they ever told about those that die trying to work it? What about the people that become depressed from step work and those that become spiritually confused?

What about people that walk in and think the program will be easy? They say to themselves, "well I have a HP (God) already". S they start working the steps unknowing that they have to believe that it is God that is keeping them sober. Many are told to fake it till they make it at this point. So they fake it, and even know some of the others have a HP that is God, and that they say that God is keeping them sober - and that God removed their obsession. What happens if this person relapses? How uncommon would it be that this person becomes severely depressed because he thinks God must be relieving the compulsion from the others and not from him?

Maybe the program does “work” for some, and maybe some people think that it is the program that is helping them. Just supposing this is true. Does that make it OK to fuck with the spirituality and mentality of others?

I hold steppers that enthusiastic and diligently work step 12 (solicit for the cult) in very low regard. They are selfish and thoughtless.

Pro Empowerment!
Truth about AA: http://orange-papers.org/menu1.html
Expose AA: http://www.expaa.org/

billybudd

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 22:49

... but you say it's not OK: difference of opinion. You say what others believe and that their decisions are not free choices: miserly of you to not allow others their beliefs and decisions. You say get the word out about the horrors and misconceptions of AA; then you say advocacy is disreputable. You say a "spiritually confused" state and depression are afflictions induced by attendance, as if blithe certainty kept them safe and sober all along up until. You say AA is difficult for others, and you say God will let them down: you say.

Why so thoughtless, senseless, and enthusiastic; why so disregardful of people conducting their own lives?

"fuck with the spirituality and mentality of others"

Then don't

Clara's picture

Clara

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 08:25

I read "fake it until you make" long before I ever joined AA. In fact, it was in some women's magazine by Joyce Brothers, who intoned that we can become what we see ourselves as... Has anyone else heard the "put on a happy face" song? Abraham Lincoln said that we are about as happy as we choose to be... AA is not a program that was ever designed to be something some was "made" to go to... Attraction, not promotion. If you don't want it, feel free to leave. If parts of it work for you, fine. If others don't, that is fine, too. I spent a long part of my life ACTing happy when I wasn't. I've become genuinely happy.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

patti

Wed, 05/02/2012 - 17:49

Clara,
if you are genuinely happy why are you on this forum every day? If you ever opened your mouth around a group of abuse victims & survivors you would risk being taken apart first verbally, then whatever. How dare you blame the daughter/child of a coke head addict who abused his child through out her childhood & determine & judge that she should heal & get over the abuse because he has changed into a respectful person & made "amends". Who do you think you are? You have judged & evaluated that said victim abuse daughter should not dislike or blame the program AA for the way her Father & abuser & torturer is thinking & the "amends" actions he has taken. This male's behaviors, actions & "amends" are directly instructed, or in AA speak, "suggested" by AA. AA is responsible for this male's "amend" attempts & for preaching that this is all one has to do to repair their past abuse's. How dare AA assume & judge that just because one of their member's makes "amends" for their past abuse's the victim should be cool with said amends & get over it. How dare AA assume that they have the right to tell those victims how to feel about abuse or any thing else for that matter? Who the hell does AA think it is? How dare Al Anon preach to family members or any one that they had a role & were somehow responsible for the abuse they suffered from an abuser? How dare you write any words or thought's of how any victim of abuse should feel regardless of you being an AA member or just even another human? Who the hell do you think you are to tell any victim of abuse how they should feel about anything? You are nobody, no qualifications, no education, no license's. You, AA & Al Anon unqualified, are irresponsible, cruel & inhumane to propagate AA's anecdotal theories regarding victim's of abuse & the insane, atrociously cruel & inhumane anecdotal theory that the victim had a "role" & was somehow a responsible party in the abuse. You & AA are crazy. Rape victim's dressed in such a way that they were asking for it, wearing a short skirt, just forced & egged on a rapist to brutally rape. Female's beat by male's, brutally beat, had a role in the abuse/the beating, they may have "nagged" their abuser. You are obviously not intelligent, you are one of that minority the 3 % that is hooked & sunk by crazy AA, even people in jail, jail, reject AA & you can't get more down trodden than jail. Listen & learn & try to understand this when it come's to abuse victim's, keep your thoughts & feelings & anecdotal AA's views that you propagate to your self. Shut up. You will get many opportunities in your life to keep your mouth shut Clara, take advantage of them both in the rooms, on this forum & in the real world that you occasionally may interact & take part in. Just shut up. Stop being a part of the problem.

patti

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