Personal attacks on others are not allowed. == Orange


Is she an AA troll?


Personal attacks on others are not allowed. == Orange

The truth shall set you free! :)

What is the point of this post? Do you feel it is helping to expose 12 step programs? If you have any issue with this person, that really is your problem, and this is not an appropriate place to air your personal opinions about any individual. If you want to slag off another person's use of medication or any other substance, feel that this is a terrible thing (and is any of your business), and hope to get applause for your personal attacks on that account, I suggest you go to an AA meeting.

It is very sad that the opf has descended into this kind of spiteful, childish nonsense.


Are you OK with people getting/being loaded and going on sites related to Chemical Dependency and doling out advice?

I am not "loaded", nor am I doling out advice. This should be being dealt with privately, as I have repeatedly requested and been denied, instead of being dragged all over a forum. I have repeatedly asked Gunthar why he is even angry with me in the first place, been denied that information and then been libeled again and again in response.

In any case, this is the web, anyone here could be completely drugged up and no one would know it. Also, as I've said elsewhere here today, if someone did truly relapse (I did not), I should hope that they got some support and help. This is rehab-level immaturity, in my opinion. Complete silliness. I don't know why I even feel the need to apologize, as I'm not doing it, but I am sorry the forum has to put up with this and please understand that I am trying to get this person to address this privately instead of here. Thanks.


Personal attacks on others are not allowed. == Orange

The truth shall set you free! :)

OK, I give up. You can't fight someone determined to lie their ass off to try and harm you. He can go on about whatever nutty crap he wants, I, for my part, am not going to sit here and either libel him or listen to it.

Adios, and fare thee well for now, OPF.

@Conan- This has already been put out there.It should not of been.

I do not think you need credentials to have opinions on this site. Many people are able to help others on some level even if their own life is not quite in order. I never knew pie was considered an expert on any particular topic, but certainly she is well read on many topics.

"I welcome all allies in the fight against A.A. hegemony" -Orange

NA DAYTONA- Violent Criminals Being Mandated to AA and NA Meetings

There are two people saying otherwise. I don't know Conan, but I do know (strictly from the Internet) Gunthar, and I've never known him to lie about these things. I've seen him call out a few people, and rightly so, for getting loaded and presenting themselves as sober with their shit together.

Your desperation to keep this quite doesn't bode well in my opinion either.

Personally, I very much appreciate Gunthar letting people know about shit like this. It is not cool.

I am not desperately trying to keep it quiet. I do not think it was a cool thing to do in the first place. At worst if ithere is truth to it, so what? We have a hypocrite at best on our hands? I think there are a number of those running around this forum that have a free reign and a free pass.

"I welcome all allies in the fight against A.A. hegemony" -Orange

NA DAYTONA- Violent Criminals Being Mandated to AA and NA Meetings


I wasn't talking to you, I was talking to Person in Exile, but clearly it applies to you too.

Alrighty then! The way the comments are set up now it is hard to tell at times.

"I welcome all allies in the fight against A.A. hegemony" -Orange

NA DAYTONA- Violent Criminals Being Mandated to AA and NA Meetings

You are talking to Gunthar2000's (Conan) sockpuppet. Just thought you might like to know what end if the horse you're dealing with.

Play nice with your friends. Keep the forum a good place to be. This is not CL.

alchemist1959- but of course-should have known. You are right this is not Craigslist!

"I welcome all allies in the fight against A.A. hegemony" -Orange

NA DAYTONA- Violent Criminals Being Mandated to AA and NA Meetings

You know Conan, it is Gunthar posting as Conan. Conan was an account created in 2012 or so with a shared password that was being used at the time by multiple people. Gunthar is using it, for whatever reason, currently to continue this pointless exercise of his. It has been brought to the attention of Orange. He's lying through his teeth, no one should appreciate someone pitching fits and libeling people on the web. I don't know what his problem is (in terms of this) and he won't say, so I'll consider that his problem, it certainly isn't mine.

I don't have my shit together at the moment, but it has nothing to do with substances or abuse of them. I just had two surgical procedures after over 6 months of misdiagnosis/lack of diagnosis for multiple injuries, and endured almost the entirety of that period without anything stronger than magnesium supplements and advil to assist me in terms of pain and central sensitization, which I also experienced. I just wrote about this medical nightmare (to be continued) on my blog, linked below, and if you would like to read about it, you are more than welcome to.

This is likely to turn out to be positive; these absurd posts have spurred me to start writing (though I will write about the injury experiences on a different blog beyond this week, for obvious reasons of it being a completely different topic) about what I have just been through with so many months of being undiagnosed, misdiagnosed, ignored into disability and then fighting like HELL to be properly diagnosed and find the appropriate doctors to treat me. It's not a substance abuse issue, unless general anesthesia and a week of post-op pain management count as me being "loaded" aside from approximately 4 times of trying Ambien to alleviate the excruciating pain I was in during the "nightmare" period. I consider that to not be a big deal, nor does anyone who actually knows me, and as Anti stated, I have never presented myself as any kind of "expert" in terms of substance abuse nor am I here to unofficially or otherwise try to counsel anyone in their own substance abuse problems.

Call me all you want on taking Aleve, however, because this crap has torn my stomach to shreds....anyway, the link is at the bottom. Sadly, it is all true. And I wish to whatever it is I still believe in that it wasn't, because that was without a doubt the worst and most terrifying and physically painful period of my entire life. Which I endured without relapsing, thank you very much;)

I thought I remember a Conan from the past. Oh well I do not think many are interested in hearing the attacks again.

"I welcome all allies in the fight against A.A. hegemony" -Orange

NA DAYTONA- Violent Criminals Being Mandated to AA and NA Meetings

Cancer...My SIL had mouth cancer and had to have a section of tongue removed and a feeding tube in her stomach. She was a recovering alcoholic who left AA in 6 months. could not stand the program or the people in it.

She was 10 years sober and happy when she fell ill. The doctors put her on morphine and she struggled with the fear of addiction. I assured her not to worry, she would become dependant and would need to be tapered off eventually. Just relax and make the best of it. Kill the pain and the fear. That's what morphine is for.

One year later she was down to 85 lbs and 280 mgs a day when I told her to start tapering. She complained about the pain and would not believe me that it was phantom pain from the morphine dependence. We had the doctor switch her to methadone for the taper but she was struggling with it. There was never any discussion about "Going to a meeting" because that was just not part of the problem or solution. It would have been too much burden because there was not going to be any "Not using today" or "Higher powers" or "Powerlessness" involved with this issue. They just did not apply...

I made her an herbal tea to drink and she went cold turkey. Three days later the withdrawals were over and she said that with the tea they were not so bad. the doctors were interested in what I gave her but they can't prescribe it.

And that's it. No programs, higher powers, steps, workshops, support groups or anything except stopping. And no one abused her for being an addict for her heavy use of morphine. she burnt the hell out of a bunch of blankets and tables lolo but shes alive...

You are getting well. Screw anyone who messes with you about the drugs you take for pain. If you think you have a problem then say so. There are solutions. I hope you heal well and the shit rolls off you.

Get well and stay well.

catwalksintoabar's picture

Holy cow, 85 pounds? Ugh, I remember when my Dad dropped to under 100 and he was so skeletal (I think 2005-6). His loss of appetite was a side-effect of another medication to help a shoulder-muscle injury. The medicine helped the injury, which enabled him to do some PT, but he became uncharacteristically low-energy and slept more than usual.

Thankfully, my Dad hated being so unnaturally low. He started visiting my brother 2-3 days a week, and my sister-in-law and her Mother made it their mission to fatten him up. Her Mother is a really good cook. *wistful sigh* And as he regained weight, then the PT really started helping him.

I'm pretty sure he has full-range of motion in that shoulder; the topic (his injury, his shoulder, his depression, his skeletalness, his recovery) hasn't come up in a few years.


That "Lead into Gold" thing or a bunch of psycho babble about spirits and voodoo...

Learning about reality from atoms to the universe. Evolution and reality. Flesh and the ego. Impermanence and flux of the mind and body. That's really what the study is about. It never ends, one remains a student for life

Alchemist--thank you. The worst of the post-op is wearing off, and the soreness from PT is now one of the issues. But that's not quite the same as cancer, I can imagine your SIL needed a bit more. I'm glad she did well going off of it. I never managed 3 days, and was never on anything stronger than hydrocodone much. Generally I was looking at 4 months no matter what. But it's good, they gave me enough to wean off.

Thanks so much for sharing. This has been a quite weird time, I'm away from home and general anesthesia threw me for a few's nice seeing people sharing stories and I REALLY appreciate the support. This has been a long, rough climb.

You sound like a damned good person to have around, from what looking after you did with your SIL. I hope she's still well? Thanks for posting to me, I really appreciate it. I'm not staying on anything much longer. Except ice packs. My stomach isn't screaming in protest of ice packs, so those can stay.

You be well and stay well, yourself. Thanks again.

If they have cut you up and left you in this condition then let me know. I have a remedy for this as well. I may be a bit slow to respond but email me here ... and I'll send you a recipe to grow skin fast. Again, it is a T&T herbal.

Thank you! The incisions are very small for the be honest, the others are small but have been kept dressed and I've not seen them yet. I will be getting specific massage to ensure that scar tissue forms appropriately and doesn't cause more trouble. I seem adequately stitched and not infected, so so far so good!

Thanks though, Alchemist.

violetagain's picture

i am so confust. are people on this site emailing each other privately and "sharing" a username? please tell me i read this incorrectly. this is so insane.please tell me this was not ever happening.

"A paranoid is someone who knows what is going on." -William Burroughs

"My *disease* was not doing pushups in the parking lot after all." -ST Blog

Do you guys (gals?) need a new target to attack? I've not seen this kind of malicious child play in a long time. Well, in meetings I did. Apparently the horse shit abusive programming takes *some* folks around here a little while longer to shed compared to others on this forum. AAers who read your crap are probably having a field day reading the attacks. *Rainbow waves at the lurking laughing AAers*

OoOoOOooooo, here's something new to do today. I have some shit you can judge about me, so have at it. Whether it's true or not makes no never mind to me. I know my truth, while you don't. Plus, I could seriously give a rat's fuck, but go ahead if it makes you feel superior... Why is everyone attacking others? Nothing else to do, I know.

So, here we go. I was on mega doses of morphine and oxys last year (OH NO!!) for a pinched sciatica and a tumor in that sciatic nerve. To say it was painful is an understatement. I loved opiates a long time ago. Guess what? I still do. Sometimes I snorted them. Oh NO!!! Somebody give Rainbow a chip! (Not...) Sometimes I drank a Sierra Nevada pale ale while high on them. Wheeeeee!! At first I was a bit concerned, but hey.... At the end of the day, I sometimes think, "Fuck, I wish I still had a scripp for those babies!"

OK. There's your assignment for the day. Tear Rainbow a new asshole. Or pick someone else, whatever. Be sure to grease us up with lubricant first. Maybe orange lube? Seems like an appropriate color around here to shove up someone's ass. Already smells like shit on this forum.

Now excuse me, I'm off to play in my garden. Why? Because I have a life, that's why.... Ta-ta...

Hi. I'm Rainbow, and I'm a belligerent savage...

By golly, you do have a way with words (: Have fun in your garden.

Thank you, Rainbow and HumanSpirit. This has been completely baffling to me. I feel silly even having to explain that I am not "loaded"....rofl....Rainbow, I don't blame you one bit. Post surgical pain isn't terribly fun! I am now, unfortunately hitting the point at which my stomach is not really very happy about continuing to take anything, which is leaving me remarkably option-less for the night (and before anyone starts discussing the idea of snorting, please look up vicoprofen and try to imagine the idea of snorting such a huge pill that is half ibuprofen at So anyway, I'm writing this remarkably "unloaded".

I would like to hope, however, that if someone ever DID truly relapse on this site and needed help that they would be given help and support and...well, suffice it to say, this is obviously not about that, since I didn't relapse, am not messed up at all, but can't get an explanation for why the posts continue. But either way, if someone were to need help, let's hope that it's given to them.

d0gmatic's picture

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
"Sometimes people don't want to hear the truth because they don't want their illusions destroyed." ~ Nietzsche

SimonTemplar's picture

It hits below the belt.
Uses RIDICULE which is one thing that
CONTROL FREAKS absotutely can't handle
CULTIES CAN'T LAUGH/bamboo under fingernails,SET ON FIRE
no problem,but someone laughing at me=OMG
Lighthouse just woke up and good to start day with A LAUGH
NEED to gie Yo some funds for Holydays.


SimonTemplar's picture

Why I live in thailand=because i get all the drugs I want
from my Drs.time release morphine/for breakfast/KAPANOL
Fentanyl pain patches for shit sand grins
and of course infinte supply o valiums and xanex.
Just because I've got PTSD AND olly gee got left /injured for 5 1/2 days
to die by Colonel who hated my guts/
I need to stop and be a REAL MAN AND SUCK IT UP.
Just love pain so fckng much /seems I forgot about all
the IV drugs they also give to me.golly gee
In thailand I AM a Hollywood hippie.OH
check out all the shit-talkers saying that I'm fckng little boys.
I was english teacher at Police HQ JUST to fck their children.RIGHT???
Don't step in front of any wheelchairs here.
or the attendant will hit you with the front o the chair
Wheel chairs ahve priorities/like if'n it's Thai person and U-R white
like don't get offn elevator until first the wheelie gets off
or fckng run U btard when U get'n off first.
Lighthouse in mtns , laughter is best medicine.RIDICULE THE ???????
????? Conina the sock puppet since day #1 on OPF S.O.S.


SimonTemplar's picture

that's huge doseage
can guess what herbal tea you used
Seems more learning how herbal remedies
can stop pain and help w/multiple problems
what is your site??you mentioned some writing about
substance abuse.
really good you were able to help her stop.
Lighthouse in mtns/always seems it's about waking up.


Paracelsus noted it. It has multiple uses from withdrawal symptoms to help with bipolar disorder. I will put the recipe here. This is a C&P so forgive the excess verbiage, mmmkay?

Rather than get into temporal issues or amaze people with youtube videos, I thought I'd share a bit of practice. Today is tea making day and I'm brewing up gallons of it. Rather than making six kinds of weak tea for specific uses I do the chinese thing and lump them together in a decoction (strong).
As all the ingredients are natural herbs I don't have to worry about overdosing people...there are however a few common sense caveats. Women who are pregnant or nursing, people with unknown allergies, taking maoi (antidepressants), sedatives or are allergic to sunlight should consult a doctor first....
I donate what I don't use to a domestic violence shelter, a detox clinic and the local methadone clinic. It has manifold uses which include.
Manic-depressive symptoms
opiate withdrawal
muscle and nerve pain
crack overdosing, meth too
It doesn't seem to help with alcoholism issues except during the withdrawal period.
I did not invent this stuff, the Romans and Chinese were brewing it 2000 years ago and calling it an "Elixir of youth" I got the recipe while reading Paracelsus and again in a book on chinese herbal medicine. I brewed my first batch and OMG this stuff really worked! Locally it's known as "Davids ass tasting tea" a name well deserved. considering it's uses I thought the title appropriate. here's the deal...
1 gallon spring (Not distilled or tap)water
1/4 cup each cut and sifted herbs
St. John's wort
Passion Flower vine
Valerian root
lemon balm
Bring water to a boil then turn to low simmer 180deg. stir in herbs and hold at 180 for one hour, covered. set aside to cool for eight hours, strain through a fine sieve and refrigerate.
8oz is a dose. 32oz is a treatment so 4/eights a day is about the therapeutic limit, your body just won't process anymore. if you're in for the long haul taper down to 8 oz per day don't skip more than two days and then take the missing doses. This tea does nothing but taste bad for about one in ten people...I don't know why but I suspect some form of substance abuse/denial problem that I can't see.
While you're brewing, meditate on this...Does my vote count more than the money I spend and where I spend it?

There you have it, I have been brewing it for ten years and it's in demand. It goes to a domestic violence shelter now for PTSD victims who can't get to meds yet.

Alchemist, thanks for posting that, anything from the ancient world and you certainly have my attention Interesting, I've read quite a bit about lemon balm in recent months. It all sounds very calming.

Oh, and "Your dollar is your vote" was always one of my favorite bumper stickers (aside form the ransom note looking ones I used to cut up from ones I'd collect and make my own notes up), and while I still agree, I don't think it's doing quite so much as it once did. But boy, am I happy to see someone throwing in something about economic leverage and how we can have any semblance of it while posting how to help withdrawal (and seemingly anxiety of all sorts). You're a treasure, thank you.

SimonTemplar's picture

hopefully from Thailand I can find some us herbal stores that
will sift and send the necesssary ingrediants
Have nerve/spine pressing on nerve and damage from drug reaction
causing right big toe to spasm 35 years now
Will look for injection to block nerve from spasming/permanent damage
to right foot/painful just to walk
Clearing custons/asked for disabled line and encountered
rude hatteful viscious attitudes/I'd taken some Kapanol for long flight
3 hours and simply to walk and they acted likeWTF
there's nothing wrong with you.
Weird how an energy pattern sets up
since seeing Prem and being more relaxed=hatred why are you happy/
My life SUcks and how dare BE HAPPY /you exit eleveator b-4 Thai in wheelchair/
gotta punish must punish have to punish you
hit you with wheel chair untilI i stopped/let him hit back o my legs
and told him he was being an asshole/wish i'd justdropped the staff
onto his foot and let him enjoy some pain
PIE-for over 35 years,I complained of back pains
VA drs =fckng Viet Vets all frggin druggies want dope
t-land could afford MRI and immediately showed
yeah yuop/you;'ve got spinal cocmpression on ?4/5 and now
when travelling they do me up righteous
Found woman psych/after asking my Dr"do you know any women
psychs who could help my little Yo whom i do love/what /huhh/Don't
understand what you said/
Looked on net saw shes done ehr intership overseas/London,
professor where he also teaches so most likely he knew about ehr
but such desperate need for control everywhere i go.
Upset that event with Prem was success for Yo.she laughed/
clapped enjoyed listening to him.But people are people and all ahve NEEDS
MAY I'll arrange for Yo to meet with lady psych
now back to sweet dreams and needed sleep.someitmes jsut don't want to
take the xanex so stay up into early morning.
Seems in US Drs can be very sadistic/no feelings or concern for patients
just money and laziness/they shojuld ahve sent your records out
MRI's ehre all go to specialist in Bangkok
Darkness surrounds me/I have my hiding place/LIGHT INSIDE.


about you and your situation are with me is your writing style and reason. Are you staying over there or coming back here. I can send you the name of a west coast herbalist to pack and ship. The main one I used I LA passed away and his wife shut down the business.

If your coming stateside the tea will help you taper. A referral to a pain management clinic is how you get the meds, not a primary Dr. They freak out with prescriptions unless you go to a mill in FLA. The VA is loosening up with all the new vets coming through again as well.

It may have become a quality of life issue. I am not qualified nor entitled to tell you. A warm sandy beach and a massage never hurt anyone though. And hot tubs! We're all falling apart, keep your mind strong "Feed your head"~ G. Slick

"If you cannot find a good companion to walk with, walk alone, like a elephant roaming the jungle. It is better to be alone than to be with those who will hinder your progress."

RIckCey--Another one I'd not heard! But I have certainly lived more than once in my time. Thank you for sharing.

Luckily, unlike last time (post-rehab and all), I'm not alone. I have good people around. There are some blank spots, is all. But yes, it is better to walk alone, when that is the only option. Strangely, I find that it's also harder to get lonely when you are walking alone because you know it's the right thing to do. I say that mainly from my VERY lonely walk after rehab/12 step stuff, in which I was ALONE. And I was supposed to not be, you know the drill. But I was doing exactly what Buddha said above, there. I was going it alone until I could find others who understood my path.

How have you been? I stepped off for a bit, check in from time to time. There seems to be some melt downs around here. It it is not hard to understand. The programme has a way of intruding into our lives. I am doing okay.

It is so good to see you.....:) I was thinking about you last week and was wondering how you were doing. My life is good but busy....maybe to busy.
Yes, "the programme" is doing push-ups in the parking lot wIting for us to become vulnerable, so it can feed on our hostile
Take care, have a wonderful Sunday.

SimonTemplar's picture

Would appreciate west coast supplier
these years here most difficult of my life
Getting all pain meds needed but would prefer herbal
someday will have to return to USA and deal with VA
unless I use tricare Prime which allows private drs
seems there years such sadistic bastrds/OMG you were in a mental
hospital so we can legally deny you any pain meds
IS why pleased with some progress in legalization
but if next pres is republican out it all goes.
As much as possible I'll stay ehre until Yo has her own business
and can support her self/care for abused/disordered sucks globally
Checking out new psych for Yo and I to see together.
Would like to check out effect of herbal formula on sleep/instead
of hangover from xanex/and while never got such high level for kapanol
still wish tehy had percodans here/Kapanol is great for pain but not for fast clear thinking
which I wish was like junkies/junkies seem to have ability to mentally move so quickly
through maze o lies and deceit/I have to stop and ponder
Now when anyone asks me questions/I assume is enemy and try to take slow time
like yo does to answer/Yo will take ehr slowong time to answer any questions I ask
is better that way.
Lighthouse in mtns.all these years wasted from gossip/lies/slander.


First let's just bypass Uncle Sam, "He's no friend of mine". Here is everything you will need and more. Should anything else arise I will work on an herbal for you and you can get what is needed from this source...

As I told PIE, this forum is not mine to use as an avenue for herbal medicine but a place to support recovery and self empowerment without 12 step programs.

I'll leave the anti XA work to more qualified members. I want to work on forum unity and non 12 step recovery, moderation and acceptance of the need for medication in life. And the honesty of what that really means.

So...Feel free to contact me off forum. I may be slow to respond because you are going into my buffer email first. We are online ya know.

Let me hear any questions about how it works there.

Best to you brother!

One of the nicest posts ( comments ) I have read in quite a while. I have seen your other comments and I agree you might have a " calming influence" on the OPF. Might be cool to speak with you as well -provided you have the time and the inkling .

And blessed be Simon - life is good regardless of the pain and ( hate ) that it can cause .

Thank you Alchemist1959



SimonTemplar's picture

I'll contact tehm for necessities
Last time in a VA/ on entry told U.C.Arizona Dr that
If I can read your mind,understand/Dr sitting NEXT TO YOU
is thinking about how he can KILL ME
when I left VA hospital/ I said This drug ehre says don't take w/this
and this drug here says don't take with thsi one."
We ignore that all the time/24 hours later in hosp w/heart attck from the drugs
Dr gave me/he was sure that on the highway/I'd be too far from any help and would ahve died
Lucky me.I'd helped some Mexi's/w broken car to get home and was close to
arizona heart CTre
Same same for me with Tai-chi/too many racists who
so WTF/let em drown.
Nightmares last night just thinking about military base and return to USA.
Films /I'm still working on my OPUS on child prostitution/but need to
visit into Cambodia as it's paedophile Central.
Hopefull /if I cut Yo's money she'll listen and be forced to stop drinking so heavily.
It's all a game and I've got to win this time .too old for new games.
So far/T-land one nurse tried to get me.& 5 dentists/VA has good dentists.
Gay student drove me to hosptital so she was sure I'd been banging him so
she put {w 6 tries} IV just 1/4 inch inside the vein, so my arm ended up swollen twice
normal size from subdural thrombosis/actually very dangerous country to work in.
Don;'t worry about transubstantiating lead into gold
It's already happening in spite of all Yo's passive-agressive sabotage
and Prem's students taking the hypocrites road to salvation.
gossip/gossip/by time I left program /1 couple wouldn't look me in the face
and smart mouthing me about Yo and how "their friend" had told them the
real truth that I got her outn a WHORE HOUSE.'i
1 thing/it is amazing to wake up and when pain hits
be able to reach into bottle and take what I need or more if I want to.
Lighthouse in mtns always waking up more.


SimonTemplar's picture

something I try try to alwys remember
Life is gift ,good to be alive and always hope
will get bettre than eer before.
Gotta men w/Yo and pick up where left off
Light shines and feels soo -no words to describe.


live_free_or_die's picture

Thanks, hope you're having a good day;)

Rather frustrating that a member has to practically lose their voice to get "crap" removed by Orange, and then it only happens if enough people are backing them up. Lots of crap shouldn't have stayed up but has despite past complaints.

Oh well, not gonna waste anymore time discussing the opf lack of moderation to the one and only rule: no personal attacks. Not a big deal to me anymore though and have actually have gotten numb to it.

Pro Empowerment!