Who's staying?

A lot of people have left the OPF lately. I believe as Ben does, we continually need newly deprogramed people to contribute old and fresh ideas. But I don't believe other members need to leave just because of some on -line clash with another member of the forum. The Orange Papers was my principle means of deprograming from the cult of steppism. I could see for myself there was a lot seriously wrong at this cult, you can feel the mental turmoil and hopelessness surrounding you at those so called meetings, but the Orange Papers seemed to clarify and verify what I had already seen for myself. I was introduced to the Orange Papers at the first MM meeting in the UK. I and another actually spent almost three hours discussing the revelations contained within the Papers and I began to realise how I had been frightened into joining a cult for life, a cult in which I had no hope of ever getting better, and probably would eventually take my own life. My deprogramming had at last started. I believe the OPF must continue for others to deprogram. Friend the Girl has stated that 'At this point, the Orange forums is about it' So lets make it the Forum that exposes the cult of steppism for every victim. By all means develop other interests and take a holiday from posting, even leave if you want to move on, but don't leave because of some argument with a fellow Anti stepper....there's more at stake here than just you. I wasted most of my life, its too late for me, but for others its not too late

Comments

NoAAUK's picture

I'm staying for the time being
......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11

Don't drink do as you please? I have been sober over 44 years. I have watched many alcoholics come to AA meetings or were sent there by the courts. I have watched 1000's start the 12 step program, get sober, and go out and get drunk. The truth is that most real alcoholics who come to AA do not stay sober. It was not because they did not work the 12 steps. It was because they had the first drink. I saw this happen over and over. I found the secret to sobriety. I Stop trying to work the 12 steps. I made a decision. I will never drink again, I will never change my mind. This is called my "Big Plan. Take it. Soberman
AntiDenial's picture

@NoAAUK- glad to hear you will be staying around. Maybe this could be like what happens in the stock market when a it is in a bear market and then there is a capitulation. Then after all the dust settles, the bad apples are shaken out and others just could not stomach it. Then things start to get better and stronger. Let us focus on exposing AA and NA and helping those that are leaving 12 step programs and be supportive.

"I welcome all allies in the fight against A.A. hegemony" -Orange

www.leavingaa.com www.expaa.org

NA DAYTONA Violent Criminals Mandated to AA and NA Meetings
http://nadaytona.org/alcoholics-anonymous-votes-no-to-protect-members-from...

JR Harris's picture

I'm staying and will continue to write about current affairs having to do with Alcoholics Anonymous. Like I said, it is one thing to say that some AA member in some state did such and such and make a big deal about it. The thing is I honestly believe you have to identify exactly who, what, when and where it happened and who reported it to give a balanced opinion. For years I have been watching people saying that AA members did something in a city, but then they don't identify the county or state. The documenting of the AA Region, Area, District, Intergroup and individual group where it happened is also very important (sorry newcomers to this site will probably not understand all this terminology and how they relate to each other, but that is why I try to explain it to them). This is all very relevant seeing that these things are starting to hit major TV outlets. If TV reporters don't know where to actually look and who to get in touch with to interview to see if it is true or not, it just won't happen and it is nothing but an unfounded rumor. All of this information gets buried deep in the web and hard to find if the information is not captured at the time of the incident. It is true that the majority of AA members will say that it is against traditions to say anything to the press, media or film, but that does not give them the right to withhold information just because it is "suggested" that they do it in the AA Big Book and 12&12. When they do that, it just makes the case more that this "secret society" (that claims it isn't) is very dangerous to the population at large.

~You can not moderate the truth. Just don't lie, steal or make stuff up out of thin air and expect to get away with it without it being pointed out to you. It's really very simple.~

You mean like a flash trade in the stock market causing a "crash", then the dust settles and the ones who didn't participate in the panic trading are the ones who get stronger. don't panic when a flash trading starts, stick it out, ignore it and your stock becomes stronger in the end. It may take a while but no impulsive activity is the key? After the "crash" there is recovery. ( I hate to use those words but it's been true)
AntiDenial's picture

Hey that is a good analogy too. But I meant when the stock market is in a downward trend for long period of times and then people get really scared dump a bunch of stocks, there is a high volume of trading, and then it hits a bottom so to speak. Then it is up from there with those that survived strong enough to invest another day. Eventually the stock market sees new highs after it hit a low bottom.

"I welcome all allies in the fight against A.A. hegemony" -Orange

www.leavingaa.com www.expaa.org

NA DAYTONA Violent Criminals Mandated to AA and NA Meetings
http://nadaytona.org/alcoholics-anonymous-votes-no-to-protect-members-from...

Never drink again. Soberman

Not knowing when to get out - like Enron, Tyco, Worldcomm, AIG

I don't know. You here a lot around here "anger is OK, especially after you've been programmed to supress it in AA". Yet we had that fucking piece of shit Janus coming on here for weeks attacking the forum and everyone on it for weeks, and then I got banned for telling her to fuck off. That was bullshit in my opinion. I did/do not come here to put up with a lot of bullshit from steppers, I came/come here because I thought this was the one place I would not have to. Clearly I was wrong, it is not. I'm about to decide there just is no place where people who got fucked over by AA can gather safely. I've certainly not found it, and this certainly isn't it. Then you have Gunthar whose been around for a long time fighting the good fight. I've watched him for years, he was one of the first people I found that brought some sense of validation to my internal struggle, which rages on to this day. He was the one that pointed me to the Orange-Papers. I've watched him take a lot of abuse in the last few years, often being accused of making shit up and seeing attacks where none exist, being the target of fear driven mobs, being accused of being an angry bitter troll because for telling the truth. Yet he never fell, he stood strong and carried on. Years ago I had the energy and focus to follow closey who said what to who about what or who. (On CL, not here.) Without fail, the steppers and their apologists were always behind the bullshit. Always. Now I've never been that involved here, and I no longer have the energy or focus or desire to scour the threads past to see what's really going on, but I think it is the same here as on CL from what I do see. That is, with a cursory examination, it appears this forum has railroade one of its greatest members. IMHO. So, ya. I'm kinda losing interest here myself.
AntiDenial's picture

Exactly TNB- that is even a better point.

"I welcome all allies in the fight against A.A. hegemony" -Orange

www.leavingaa.com www.expaa.org

NA DAYTONA Violent Criminals Mandated to AA and NA Meetings
http://nadaytona.org/alcoholics-anonymous-votes-no-to-protect-members-from...

AntiDenial's picture

I think expressing the anger in appropriate ways is what is desired. Some need to show more restraint. Without a doubt Gunther has made lot's of positive contributions. At the same time hijacking someones elses site causing them lots of work to undue is uncalled for. I do understand his anger on some level, just not how he and others chose to express it.

"I welcome all allies in the fight against A.A. hegemony" -Orange

www.leavingaa.com www.expaa.org

NA DAYTONA Violent Criminals Mandated to AA and NA Meetings
http://nadaytona.org/alcoholics-anonymous-votes-no-to-protect-members-from...

SimonTemplar's picture

It's not a question o expression/or expressing anger but there's good and bad ways o expressing ones'self setting hacks onto a site/vulgarity/viscious attakcs not on what's said but on the person expressing his or her OPINIONS At end o day/we are all human beings and deserve some respect. simply showing as Hindus say NAMASTE/Isalute your soul/God inside of you. We need to have some kindness for those whose lives will be lost in steps In AA/ETC ideology and deal with some human compassion for others Seeing what's gone on has allowed some growth/hopefully. Feel more than ver is need to warn others/teach others about how to free themselves from substance abuse w/o 12 ideology. But when person is attacked with just profanity /and serious problems exacerbated/made worse by low blows and getting anger out through lies/attack therapy JR calls it/or abuse /tough love We can agree to communicate and when disagree don't need to see it as life-threatening. So so many have this insanity that if someone disgrees with statements then their own life is threatened and must retaliate with all out wars. At end o day we all ahve our problems our needs and one need is to communicate with others/to interact but with some respect/kindness In short time I've been alive, some 63 years/Love and Kindness are the most powerful; forces for real growth and positive CHANGE. Lighthouse in mtns/hooking up oxygen tank/breathe through plastic straw and go inside/I'm not afraid to say the Love o God,The Infinte One has sustained me. With Lord's love my life is bettre than w/o such feelings . Times I feel like a battery/more o Love from Lord more powerful energy inside o me.

I SPY

AntiDenial's picture

@Simon-Ditto. People need not go into defense mode to such an extreme degree. Sometimes it is obvious it is done to just try and get rid of someone off the forum by insulting them to the point they will leave. That is bullying.

"I welcome all allies in the fight against A.A. hegemony" -Orange

www.leavingaa.com www.expaa.org

NA DAYTONA Violent Criminals Mandated to AA and NA Meetings
http://nadaytona.org/alcoholics-anonymous-votes-no-to-protect-members-from...

la tortuga's picture

While people shouldn't have to leave because of clashes with other members on this forum, the members of this forum should be more conscientious of what they post. People come to the OPF to deprogram, to heal, to learn about alternatives, to be updated as to current topics in the news in regard to the addiction industry and the anti-AA movement. The OPF provides a platform for people to voice their opinions and concerns. There is a great need for this platform to continue to be available. Both members that have been with this forum since its inception and newcomers to this forum, can create an environment that can be beneficial to anyone who is looking to gain information or recover from AA. All the trolling and in-fighting takes away not only from the credibility of this movement, but from the value of this forum as a resource for people that find it helpful. A little respect toward each other would benefit everyone.
J.'s picture

I'm new to this forum and would wish to stick around, but this idea, this movement, needs to be more organized. Online forums breed infighting and arguments. It's the nature of the beast. I don't know much about the recent disputes (I did follow most of the other members problems with Jim Battle though) but needless to say it seems petty and trivial. As I've said before this kind of bickering and fanatical attacking only makes us, people who disagree with AA, seem crazier than AA itself. How are we to show someone frustrated and struggling with addiction and not finding a solution is Alcoholics Anonymous anything that might benefit them on the other end of the spectrum if that spectrum looks just as manic as what they see in some meetings? I'd wager we couldn't and I'd wager that Steppers see dissent in the ranks and use it as proof that we are all just a bunch of stubborn, angry, and hostile people because we "spirituality" or whatever nonsense furthers there cause. Let's band together more. Differences of opinion will occur, obviously. But it doesn't have to threaten our credibility. Sure, the topics can get tiresome and repetitive but I've found more mundane topics and banality in AA than I ever found anywhere else. Now, with more criticism of 12-Step programs being evaluated and safety within AA being questioned, the ugliness is being exposed into the light of day. People are speaking up. That's my two cents. I'll still float around, chime in when I can and want.

dandammit, you're one of the few reasons I'm even still here. I mean that. There are some others here, though I don't see them posting lately, but because some dust has settled, I'm tentatively still posting a LITTLE bit. I won't be sticking around if a certain antagonist rears his head again, though, that would be too much to ask.

When it descends to threats and libel, that is a different beast entirely. There is a vast difference between ideological differences, debates and a backstabbing pack of insane lies in the form of personal attacks. I'm just glad that Orange addressed some of that, but I don't know if any banning was done or not, so I barely feel safe even posting here at the moment. Aside from that, I don't feel it's necessary to attack people outright when they show up here just because they perhaps are AA. If they are here to troll, that is a different matter. If they honestly want to know why people feel negatively towards 12 step programs, why not just tell them in earnest why, and graciously and civilly explain that side of things instead of going on the attack? A lot of people sign up and get attacked right off the forum because they aren't anti anything. I don't expect everyone to agree, but why not put a positive face on this forum and let people see that it's a bunch of well informed people who have a side of the story to tell instead of jumping down people's throats? Just a thought.
SimonTemplar's picture

Seeing Prem it hit me again how programmed I have been/am to be a good VICTIM and allow b's and B's to say words that hurt to regret not having defended myself by simply saying NO DON'T SIT EHRE THIS MY TABLE WHEN I LEAVE THIS HOTEL /I'LL TAKE IT WITH ME or when such blaise cult speak as WELL DID YOU HAVE PERMISSION TO SAY THAT YOU LOVEPREM DID YOU HAVE PERMISSION TO LIVE LIFE AS YOU WANT TO??? Respond with equal or greater force and attack with RIDICULE OMG so youre another dain bread/brain dead CULTIE THINKING MAHARAJI IS AGREAT CULT LEADER AND CRITICISM IS NOT ALLOWED. YOU'RE SO CORRECT I should, coulda kissed someone's ass for permission on how to LIVE MY LIFE!!!!! bUT WHEN DEALING WITH CULTIES it's always viscious. OMG he just said there's bad persons making trouble for Prem !!! NO JOKES ALLOWED=warning Asked one woman="So you're ehre for the old folks convention?" some places no youth want anything to do with prem and it's ike during programs seeing everyone from and OLD FOLKS HOME. No I'm here for a convention with PremRawat. sorry but was just joking. OHhh dtuhh. Was good to meet newbies and see fresh blood flowing i n hearts that were simply happy/joyous living life with KNOWLEDGE. Again SOS I gave your letterws to teh "CORRECT PEOPLE" meaning upper ecelon VIP'S who are so gald they can prevent Prem from finding out how much trouble they're creating/CRETINS PIE -stolen words."Self-defense is not simply blocking it is to block,then counter -attack ." .lookie block.block,block so freaking what .put the attacker down.stop his attacks. disable him/knock him out/hurt him being that you've been studing the ARTS you do understand until downed= threat continues.Put him down and kick his head. another day with hacker playing games.oh weelll life goes on. mind games. "Worse than wild beasts/tigers and snakes /more to be feared is a false friend.Wild animals can hurt your body,but a false friend will HURT YOUR MIND." BUDDHA MIND ATTACKS ARE Long term pain Only a lit candle can light another candle obviously/CIA=Criminally Insane Attacker is upset We've had enough o GUILT,BLAME, SHAME GAMES HE SET US UP FOR,with AA etc didn't PLAY his game and that's how it should always be. Put unlit lamp next to other lamps/nothing happens.JUST DARKNESS.

I SPY

J., that's my opinion. People come here to see what people are like who are against 12 step programs, likely with a stereotype in mind, then they get rudely shown the door after being accused of any number of bizarre agendas. It doesn't look sane to most of the people who actually belong here and post regularly (or semi-regularly), as is regularly commented on. I would like to apologize (again) for adding to that this past week in any way, and I hope people here understand that I was defending myself under a rather unusual and unnecessarily public situation. I didn't see that coming in any way, shape or form, still don't understand it and was trying rather desperately to keep it private.

Of course, quoting the Buddha never hurts! I love this: ""Worse than wild beasts/tigers and snakes /more to be feared is a false friend.Wild animals can hurt your body,but a false friend will HURT YOUR MIND." BUDDHA I was taught to attack and defend simultaneously. That is the way we learn. We also deal with what we can see, what is in front of us. The best advice I learned, however, is not only to slow yourself down and not panic (which, sadly, I have done in the last week), but also this: "When you are exhausted, when your body is too tired to adequately keep fighting: CONCENTRATE. It's all you have left." These words have been useful, though rarely applied throughout the last 7 hellish months, the worst of my entire life, but simply reminding myself of that part of my training is helpful in all areas of life. Because sometimes it really is all you have left. The panicked mind leads only to panicked actions and words, not anything resembling wisdom or even what is helpful to the self, and reaching the true self requires quieting the mind. That is hard to do, but I will work on that as well.
criticoolthinking's picture

i don't know the whole story but people do say stuff like - i wish you'd die - and illogical stuff when they get really upset and hurt, many times i have refrained but occasionally i have been a loose cannon with "words" too. apparently Guntar is reacting and feels hurt by you somehow? and ""quoted"" some stuff you may have said - that was scary explaining some of that. and he questioned your skyping that you were misusing addarel. and you wished he'd give in to suicide idealization and die. any or all of this could spark a rant if people had sensitive feelings hurt. im wondering how quick your recovery is to type so much.how this is connected to ST is obscure.did you say he was a "bad" moderator? but loose cannon language was engaged in by you too.can you shed light as to why ? could that be the same emotionally skewed reason why he did? i don't know just wondering but you both sound questionable? mark and elsie can say why they are quitting on another forum? are you elsie, where misusing would carry more weight and these retaliations would be less obscure? so much is obscure but hanging your defense on upset loose cannon words seems like a odd defense when you engage in some of the same? i don't know but having read all this obscurity i am now mentally hooked and wish i could put some loose ends together in my mind anyhow. but i will forget it if you prefer.

i get high on the sky!

NoAAUK's picture

' this kind of bickering and fanatical attacking only makes us, people who disagree with AA, seem crazier than AA itself' I agree with you, with the general publics view of AA as a support group which has saved the lives (?) and sanity (?) of millions (?) of people bickering and fanatical attacking does make us appear crazier than AA. But people who know the truth about steppism must realise that there is not much that is crazier than the cult of steppism. I cringe when I remember that I fell for all that oxford group inspired cult indoctrination and actually thought that, although I hated AA almost from the very beginning, God was punishing me for drinking to excess and had withdrawn the privilege of drinking and wanted me to deliver His 12 step message of salvation to the alcoholic that still suffered. Despite the fact that the doctrine of steppism just created mental turmoil and despair within me. Textbook cult recruitment dogma, I now realise. Even years later I thought that had I worked a strong (?) program God would have given me the woman of my dreams and I would have lived happily ever after, or in stepper indoctrination language, I left before the miracle happened. I now realise, thanks to the Orange papers and similar websites, there never was going to be any miracle and as long as my mind was corrupted by the insane indoctrination of a 1930's cult, I was never going to live 'happily ever after
......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11

@Persephone In Exile Are you an AA troll?
AntiDenial's picture

Yes AA steppers like your new friend X opf troll Clara, tends to get shown the door. You chose to not keep that private. opf should be a safe place for people leaving AA or NA.

"I welcome all allies in the fight against A.A. hegemony" -Orange

www.leavingaa.com www.expaa.org

NA DAYTONA Violent Criminals Mandated to AA and NA Meetings
http://nadaytona.org/alcoholics-anonymous-votes-no-to-protect-members-from...

JR Harris's picture

Come on guys, we all have our own opinions of what happened in the last 4 months. We all have our own ideas about who the protagonist and antagonist was and what was right or wrong. We all know who the participants have been. Let's just let it go and quit trying to start this stuff up again with even newer participants on a different subject. It really is getting very old and stale. Here is a listing of the latest news that is being said about Alcoholics Anonymous. Bookmark it and you can keep checking it anytime you want. I am sure that something current can be gleaned from this information. http://wn.com/alcoholics_anonymous/news

~You can not moderate the truth. Just don't lie, steal or make stuff up out of thin air and expect to get away with it without it being pointed out to you. It's really very simple.~

SimonTemplar's picture

When I first met Prem and his students /made huge mistake to talk about Vietnam.so problems arose In 1974,I went to India and stayed with prem's mother and brother Bal bhagwan Ji.Seems they'd left him when he married an UNCLEAN AMERICAN WOMAN.OMG why did he do this/ I am his mother.I am supposed to CHOOSE HIS WIFE FOR HIM!! so after India ,I enetered middle o wars with old/new . But what was biggest learning/still learning this lesson. In 1974 I was basicly "BANNED IN BOSTON ." ONE Nazi Uberlieutenantashram biggie told me that I should commit suicide for the good of the community I left and was super pissed off.I'd been doing 6 hours daily of the 4 so-called "secret techniques" and having huge experiences of just inner being inner world/parrallel universe and when I left it went to shit/zero. Married the worst bitch I could find/self-hatred and some 10 years later/one false friend who wanted FORGIVENESS explained to me that all the ones who were spreading it on thick/talking shit about OMG why does a QUEER THINK IT'S OAKY TO ASSOCIATE WITH US?? WHY DOES SOMEONE WHO WAS IN AN OMG/MENTAL HOSPITAL THINK IT';S OKAY TO ASSOCIATE WITH US/ As he had developed AIDS / was going to die/he wanted to set things right between us. "you should not feel bad about leaving Boston as all the people making troulbe for you weee just like me/HOMOSEXUAL they just thought that if they pointed one finger at YOU THEN NOONE WOULD SEE WHAT THEY WERE DOING!! Considering that my life had been seriously shit on/in over under One little bitch boy told security that OMG "HE'S A STALKER!" what girl is he stalking? we'll teach him alesson. "OMG can't yousee how eautiful I am?He's stalking me!!" After one year of did yousee him anywhere near Ronnie Cohen ever during this entire year? NOPE WOW--- WHAT A CLEVER STALKER!!! Never goes near or talks with his"VICTIM." shit talk is all about this one SAME GAME. If I can get everyone looking at you= then noone wilL see what I AM DOING !!!! Prem talks a lot about DISTRACTIONS how magician steals your wallet but returns it to you/theif does not. If looking ehre will you see over there?NOPE !! Distraction is how magicians play their games/look here while it;s in my right hand. Honestly could care less about all this shit-storm in a teacup. " A machine using lots of energy /electricity/must be grounded to the earth in order to stabilize the flow of electricity through the machine and to prevent a volatile current from jumping to whatever might touch it. A machine that is not grounded poses a serious threat;similarly a person who is not "grounded " in body as well as mind,in feelings as weell as thoughts,can pose a threat to whatever he or she touches. We tend to think of the powerful currents of creative energy circulating through every one of us as benign,but they can be volatile and dangerous if not properly grounded.This is especially true of those suffering from a serious addiction.No longer grounded to the deeper meaning of their lives, addicts are like someone who can nnot release a 600-volt calbe because the electric current is just too strong:they hold tightly to their addiction even as the life force courses its way out of their veins." Speaking of addctions as more than just alcohol& drugs but also behavour patterns used to avoid -distraction from psychic pain. Self-hatred, or opposite, sadism, ahtred for all others is also an addiction.. difficult to let go of.Habitual anger vs letting go and faith trust. Lighthouse in mtns needs house cleaning/SONGKRAN gotta gie Yo her extra $150 for the Holy days.b-4 complete freakout. Not easy nor simple caring for someone whose been hurt when there's my own sickness to deal with.fckng dangerous.

I SPY

dorak nob's picture

i will stay, my doctor told me to snort ambien, he said I feel as if I had Alzheimer's . Hi dandammit..
dorak nob
dorak nob's picture

since when did the requirement to post on this site require certificate of sobriety, I thought it was about how AA failed the 99 percent. What are we supposed to do ?
dorak nob

Dorak, I think this is entirely absurd and quite nutty. I'm taking a few pain pills as prescribed, but under the circumstances, that's not only normal but highly recommended. I certainly hope that anyone here who relapses in earnest is given sympathy and help.

Hi Dorak hope all is well. I was thinking about you and all the other people from stinkin thinkin, those were fun times. Hope the painting is going well. I'm freelance again now and doing a variety of creative stuff.
dorak nob's picture

mfc66uk, that's great. It's good [o see you contributing, persephone what I'm getting at is I don't' care what your doing, you have helped me. Your blog is insightful and the article on withdrawal could only have been written by you. So keep helping other , use your talent, don't waste your time trying to defend .
dorak nob
Property of Dog's picture

I have no reason to attack anyone and no reason to leave. I come here for information and discussions about that information. If there is something here that I don't want to participate in I simply don't.

Dorak--thank you. I wish I could do more to help, is all. I'll try to keep writing, not inspired at the moment, but it'll come back. I am not as motivated after events here of late, to be honest. I'm sure it'll come back. The experience of weaning myself off of pain pills is perhaps an interesting topic. What do you think?

It would be good to journal it honestly. Then it would be a map so to speak. Some drugs like benzos need a long slow taper of 25% per week or longer. There are detours for narcotics like methadone and suboxone. Detours...As long as you want to stop then you will stop. It may hurt like hell but it will pass. Just keep breathing, it will be alright.
dorak nob's picture

pain pill weaning is probably a topic that will circle my life forever, it's the one medicine which actually makes me feel good, i remember in rehab the horrible meds, serequel resperdol trazadone nothing that made me feel well . I even got into the ADD meds concerta adderall straterra none of those made me feel good. I had a doctor tell me that if you have ever used pain meds for pain management you would probably be using them back and forth for life. So please keep writing about your experience with pain.
dorak nob
SimonTemplar's picture

45 years since bomb blast and near death Dr's have this CHRISTISM belief that some how if you need to use pain meds for life WHEN YOU DIE YOU'LL GO TO HELL WHEN one WW2 vet was dieing from Cancer /they denied him any pain meds saying eh'd become ADDICTED he sues the Va and his children got bank Seems when it comes to pain there is no Christian value of KINDNESS when in severe pain you got tested/used as a guinea pig for this drug and this drug but simple is best when in pain /take a pain medIne 8 years ehre /I've never ever experienced any withdrawal symptoms and initially was afraid of taking Kapanol time release morphine/but after years of useage/it's problems with psych with relationships that are causing pain/not useage of pain meds My psych wil introduce me to some new Drs /so in event of his death I'll still ahve whatever I need and extra to keep 3 month's supply on hand Need USA Dr to sigh prescriptions to bring supply home with me also getting Pain Management Dr's report/surgeons reports and reports from Psych/it's too easy to say OMG A DRUG ADDICT/instead of well your foot's permanetnly broken and to walk you'll need meds/you'ree back is twisted/spinal comp[ression and that'll take some meds,but it's as if I were asking to sleep witht eh Drs daughter most times when asking for pain med unless you're wealthy and ahve top big money Dr's. Biggie right now is to stop smoking/self-induced pain. Lighthouse in mtns/life's a daily wake up call and always learning more.

I SPY

Property of Dog's picture

We can't get far enough from our Puritan roots to have basic empathy. That is a reason that I think the steps rob human beings of being able to offer the love and empathy that a mutual aid group could provide. We are hung up on purity in this country, to the level of obsession.