hams critic limited to the simple plans and 17 elements pgs

http://www.hamsnetwork.org/sampleplans/ http://www.hamsnetwork.org/seventeen/ read and discuss amongst your selves i'm feeling a little vehklemt hams celebrates every positive individual imaginable success no 13th step have to work at that some people ain't happy unless people are covered in cloaks pass the hams opinions critics i'm just afraid of public meetings with disturbed compromised people with no serious security and time focus ,management for getting real individual work done every day withdrawal requires distressing every day i had a lot of spikes through time just talking anything and everything really helped me destress that's my individual gumby opinion of hams

Comments

Rolf Ankermann's picture

I told you I don't have a problem with HAMS. I like Ken, he's a cool dude. That being said, HAMS is 90% geared towards learning how to drink moderately and that's totally cool if that's your goal. In my opinion, for people who drank dependently for a seriously long period of time and there is no concrete number for that, that moderation is just too much of a pain in the ass. The majority of people I talk to who fall in that class tend to agree with me. I drank to get drunk and limiting myself to 3 or 4 would be absolutely no fun and actually be stressful and cause anxiety, two of the reasons I drank in the first place. people who get roped into the rooms at a very early age (late teens to mid 20's) and that therefore had not been drinking dependently for a long, long time are the one's who should be able to return to moderate drinking fairly easily. You're case Jorgen is clearly extreme and unique but I think most of the young people that get brainwashed into this disease/powerless crap are people that probably would have matured and grown into responsible drinking if they hadn't been hoodwinked by the cult. I'm pretty sure that if I had figured out my underlying crap back in my mid twenties or maybe even my early 30's, that I'd probably be a mature socially responsible drinker but as it went, I used the shit to self medicate for WAY too long (30 plus years) so that for me to moderate after all that, would be a major challenge and not worth it.
Rolf Ankermann's picture

It's not rocket science.......Here are some of the "sample plans", Sample Plan One -- Female I want to outline my plan, so that I can be accountable, especially to myself. I abstain on work nights; I am not a morning person , and I have to get up at 5 am for work. Even the dregs of a hangover would be counterproductive. I usually feel a bit woozy and dizzy in the mornings without alcohol in my system. My goal is harm reduction, without limiting myself to where I feel deprived of something I want to do (drink, and get a buzz). I don't want to black out. Sample Plan Two-- Male I like to get intoxicated when I drink. I will drink a fifth of hard liquor when I choose to drink. But I always drink safely at home alone when I drink. And I never drink on a work night. I never keep alcohol in the house; I only buy it when I choose to drink. For me it is best to abstain five to six days a week and drink just one or two. If I do not have lots of abs days I wind up getting nothing done Sample Plan Four -- Male I was not drinking until I was drunk all the time, but I was drinking every night and I wanted to change that. I thought that was a bad idea. So I decided that for the first month I would have one night of abstinence every week. Etc, Etc,……. It’s a moderation plan and none of it is brain surgery to figure out. If you want to moderate, then just fucking moderate.
Pennywise's picture

The trick with HAMS is getting judges to sign off on it. If judges would allow court ordered patients to fulfill their requirements through HAMS moderation, a guy could make millions opening a HAMS based rehab center with a stocked moderation bar and medical MJ smoking lounge.
"One turned up the other day calling himself Boniface." ~ Bill Wilson
Rolf Ankermann's picture

That was way funny and I needed a good laugh as I'm about to head off and spend the day painting my fiancé's house so that we can sell it. I SUCK at painting will undoubtedly be covered with white paint from head to toe by day's end.
NoAAUK's picture

'but I think most of the young people that get brainwashed into this disease/powerless crap are people that probably would have matured and grown into responsible drinking if they hadn't been hoodwinked by the cult. I'm pretty sure that if I had figured out my underlying crap back in my mid twenties or maybe even my early 30's, that I'd probably be a mature socially responsible drinker' Yet again I totally agree with you. This is one of the, if not the worst harm caused by a 1930's, lying, fear mongering, coercive, predatory cult (sorry to repeat myself yet again, but I think this is the best way to describe steppism ) dominating the Substance Misuse Treatment Sector in the developed west (?) with deceptive recruiting techniques and Censorship.....the self fulfilling prophecy of powerlessness instilled by this truly dangerous cult. I realise if I had seriously addressed this problem in the 1980's, instead of being duped by the lies and fear mongering of the oxford group/stepper cult who just wanted me to be a meaningless slogan and indoctrination spouting, brain washed zombie for life (no doubt satan wanted me to stay in a permanent state of mental turmoil and despair leading to suicide, I believe that's why satan formed the stepper cult with its servants Wilson & smith, but that's only some of us opinion). Anyway if I had seriously attempted to solve this problem at the early stages I believe my life would have been profitable and happy, instead of the mess it turned out to be and I believe countless others could have gone on to lead good happy lives instead of dying, as some did and remaining permanently screwed up as countless others have. Yes many people, could have returned to Responsible Drinking. I don't accept that long term problem drinkers can never return to responsible drinking, its just harder the longer you have been abusing alcohol, but you don't need to be a genius to work out that the earlier you catch and start to rectify the problem, the easier it is to solve successfully. I also believe, that if people realise they can return to responsible drinking, instead of the generally accepted stepper cult dogma, that you have to remain totally abstinent for life (even wine gums) and regularly attend stepper cult indoctrination sessions/meetings for life else its jails, institutions or death for you. Then people will be more willing to try and moderate and solve the problem
......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11
NoAAUK's picture

What do you think to having hybrid meetings along the HAMS idea of catering for what ever goal you want to attempt, either Harm reduction, possibly leading to moderation or total abstinence? (with NO censorship whatsoever of the false dogma and other more sinister evils of the stepper cult). A sost of combination of Smart and MM. It would mean Drinkers sitting with Abstainers. Is this the way of the future? I believe HAMS could provide a real answer to the problem of substance misuse if it developed and grew larger.
......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11
Rolf Ankermann's picture

Just to reiterate, I really respect and like Ken and I think HAMS is very useful in pointing out the CHOICES that we have. I think the reason that there aren't many "HAMS" meetings is for the very reason that the 3 choices are so different with choice #1 and #3 virtually being polar opposites, that it would be hard to make meetings incorporating all 3 very doable. I need to give it more thought but initially that's my take.
NoAAUK's picture

Ok, thanks for your input. Mixed meetings for the future is an issue that does occupy my mind often, particularly as the substance Misuse Treatment Sector seems so dominated by the false, fear mongering doctrines of a 1930's cult and many of its paid counsellors, if not practicing steppers now, seem to have been once. To seriously address this problem I think you have to consider other avenues than the, in my experience , much corrupted Treatment sector. I don't imagine the Drinks Industry would support a total abstinent organisation, but they may go for Harm reduction leading to Moderation or a mixed movement. And they have plenty of money to support such an organisation and are not, to my knowledge corrupted by steppers who just want fresh victims to join their 1930's cult for life
......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11
criticoolthinking's picture

i just opinioned to the board in general that i felt hams has a 100% flexibile format which i belive could fill out as the results of portugal and switzerlamd demonstrate - when addicts feelsafe to get help the majority geberally quit eventually with out making it a "stated goal" like most programs do - alot ofaddictive mentality is about wanting left alone- so i'mjust saying stip pushing anything on them. trust the natural remission process. because initially most addicts can't imagine quiting but slowly they cann build support and then their healthy choices could progress naturally. which ibeliev is the subtle power of natural remission.

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i embrace a multi-pathic view of disease and behavior science. neither is the only way for everyone, people are unique, some get diseases, some don't. some needs are beyond will power. some are not. group think kills individuals! critty cat.