Rolf's Anti-Christianity Agenda

This post was written in response to Rolf Ankerman's "YOU ARE PREACHING TO THE WRONG CHOIR!" post dated 12/27/2013. "The thief cometh not, but for to STEAL, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly." (John 10:10 KJV) Rolf, It is true that The Bible also does not teach us to empower ourselves, but rather to deny ourselves and let CHRIST empower us. And it's obvious that you don't like this teaching and neither you or anyone else has to believe it or follow it. However, you can't prove that what you BELIEVE are "sane" and "logical" ways to address the issue of addictions are any more effective that true Christianity. It's just your OPINION that they are, not a scientific FACT. It's your "religious DOGMA", your belief that you and your friends want people to accept without being questioned or doubted. You believe it by FAITH. However, I do appreciate you pointing out that it is not exactly the same as "AA's insane suggestion" in Step Three "to turn (SURRENDER) our WILL and our LIVES...". You said that this Bible teaching is "pretty much the same" which is what I've been trying to show readers all along - that AA's insane suggestions are close counterfeits of Christianity. A good counterfeit dollar bill is "pretty much the same" as the real thing, but is NOT the real thing. So AA's Step Three is not the real thing. It is a close copy of this Bible teaching, and Bill Wilson made this copy with the intent to deceive people - to rob them of true Christianity which is very valuable when properly understood. Speaking of the devil, Jesus said... "The thief cometh not, but for to STEAL, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly." (John 10:10 KJV) And that's exactly what Bill Wilson's did. He stole the the truth from people by making a counterfeit called "suggestions" which is killing people and destroying lives. But after correctly seeing that Step Three is just a close counterfeit, you lost the insight and said "It's the same damn thing!". But, no, you had it right the first time. So Christianity (which you call "organized religion") is not a "HORRIBLE guide for living your life." It's an excellent guide for living your life and also an powerful resource for overcoming sinful habits. And it does not matter if true Christianity "goes against what the large majority of the people on this forum and others who are critical of the 12-Step "recovering" model think and feel is the SANE and LOGICAL way to address the issue." This forum was NOT set up to only present alternatives to AA that the large majority approve of. Unless you have good research studies that show that true Christianity is harmful to "addicts" like AA, Orange will allow it to be presented as an alternative to AA, no matter what the majority thinks or feels. What you and the large majority "think and feel is the SANE and LOGICAL way to address the issue" of so-called recovery is going to end up doing the same thing that AA is doing right now. It is going to have the courts force "religious" people into secular options. Some people like you are going to convince them that your secular way is the only "SANE and LOGICAL way to address the issue." I can see it coming and that's why I'm opposing this intolerant ant-Christian agenda as well AA's intolerant agenda. Neither agenda can be justified by proving that true Christianity is not a "SANE" and LOGICAL alternative for "addicts". So as long as Orange is tolerant of Christianity being presented as an alternative to AA, on HIS forum, I will be opposing this anti-Christianity agenda that he never intended the forum to be used for. That's my agenda Rolf (at least part of it).

Comments

JR Harris's picture

~You can not moderate the truth. Just don't lie, steal or make stuff up out of thin air and expect to get away with it without it being pointed out to you. It's really very simple.~

I enjoy the way that your clips expose the persecution fetish that these street preachers have it gives them a right hard on to imagine that they are "Christian soldiers",fighting the battle they just cannot see that they are just annoying twats..in the same category as raving madmen or annoying drunks just a public nuisance..
fuck it.."were all stardust" tyson,dawkins,hawkings,sagan..various other people ive read
JR Harris's picture

Or the Nashville, TN Court House (very long and boring so I just decided to link it).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ysDIfRa0QI

~You can not moderate the truth. Just don't lie, steal or make stuff up out of thin air and expect to get away with it without it being pointed out to you. It's really very simple.~

live_free_or_die's picture

Most times, that is true. However, it is important to point out that some of these TRUE Christians, Bible believing and all that, have actually been convicted of murder, and bombing buildings. Some have been convicted of tax fraud. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Army_of_God_(United_States) Jim Battle has aligned himself with some interesting people. First, we have the Bobgans, coauthors of Twelve Steps to Destruction, the book that Jim Battle is using as his bible to promote Jesus as THE addictions savior. Martin & Deidre Bobgan have been called wicked by another TRUE Christian fundie by the Name of Darwin Fish. Fish has also said that the Bobgans are liars and hypocrites. Darwin Fish has A TRUE Church to back him up. We all know what happens to liars don’t we?
. . . all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone . . . (Revelation 21:8)
Jim Battle has been caught in numerous lies, the most glaring is Jim Battle’s claim that his purpose upon arriving at the OPF was to simply expose AA/NA at the drug courts and churches. Jim said he wasn’t here to preach. But, preaching is all Battle has been doing for several weeks now. This was Battle’s TRUE purpose in coming to the OPF. After all, the OPF had a substantial following, a following that Jim Battle, the addictions and prison minister, was ready to exploit.
Even though they clearly know Dobson is "contrary to the doctrine," the Bobgans refuse to note him as one who does "not serve our Lord Jesus Christ." Thus, in their hypocrisy, they are disobedient to the command of God (Romans 16:17-18).
Read more on the Bobgans here >> http://www.atruechurch.info/bobgan.html The Bobgans preach against the disciplines of psychology and psychiatry as being ungodly. Yep, the Bobgans TRUE way to mental health is, you guessed it, God, by way of Jesus the addictions savior. You see, according to the Bobgans, you can’t get right with science, the only WAY is the Bobgan’s WAY, and that is God. Read more about what the Bobgan’s have to say about the evils of science here >> http://www.psychoheresy-aware.org/psychology_falls.html Is Jim Battle a one man ministry looking to start his own cult? It certainly seems that way. Lots of similarities between Jim Battle ministries and the AA religion’s founding. One such similarity is that both shun science; both insist that their way is the only TRUE way to quit addiction. AA’s addiction savior is the GOYOU, the god of your own understanding, and the Bobgan’s is Jesus, the TRUE addictions savior. More will be revealed……….
LFOD's Blog http://www.orange-papers.org/forum/blog/10857 ©2014 AA:MyNotGodHasItCovered® http://www.expaa.org/ http://noforcedaa.weebly.com/ http://12stepprograms.weebly.com/ NOT AA: Rational Recovery, SOS, HAMS
btnben's picture

just like dog shit is a public nuisance. They both appear, unwanted, on our streets. Normal people avoid them at al costs - detours often being necessary. There is a general feeling of relief when someone comes along and clears the mess up.

God damn it, get me a whiskey

Bill W, Deathbed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc

It does not matter what flavor it is, it is still Koolaid. As they say in the Roomz, 'and what will you have with it.' Jim is just another volunteer, for the nut cases of the world, that would have us drink it. Just a diversion tactic to keep the money rolling in. As for being saved, it is just another case of wanting something for nothing. That is what Bill Wilson was after and he built his program on that. He got everyone else to do all the work and then he took all the credit.
jimbattle's picture

LFOD, The reason I'm "preaching" now is because I discovered that JR and Soberman have been preaching about God and religion on this forum for years. So I decided to "preach" on the same topics too. We wouldn't want to hear just one view about these things, now would we? And last time I looked, Darwin Fish was the pastor of "A True Church". It seems like he does not like anyone. He thinks that anyone who does not agree with him ABOUT EVERYTHING is wicked. If you don't do EVERYTHING he thinks you should do, he thinks you are wicked. The problem is that he can't back it up with the Bible by using the rules of Bible interpretation. So he's really just giving his OPINION although he twist Bible verses and take them out of context to make it seem like he's telling the truth. So "A True Church" is NOT a true Church. AA can call itself "A True Church" but that doesn't make it one. The Bible warns us about men like Darwin Fish. It says... "For there are many unruly and vain talkers and DECEIVERS, specially they of the circumcision: Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, TEACHING THINGS WHICH THEY OUGHT NOT TO, for filthy lucre's sake. (Tit 1:10-11 KJV) So there NO Bible teachings which show that the Bobgan's are wicked. But if you don't know how to interpret the Bible, an angry, crazy man like Darwin Fish can trick you into believing that there are. You posted a quote from this so-called "True Church" as though they are good proof that the authors of "12 Steps to Destruction" are wicked. Here are the quotes you posted: "Are the Bobgans wicked? We contend that they are." So what if this ONE church says that the Bobgans are wicked. Does what ONE church believes make it true? Of course not. So you are showing that you are either gullible or deceitful by posting this as evidence against someone. Then you posted a Bible verse and an OPINION of this ONE church as though this proves the Bobgans are wicked. You posted: ""Beware of the leaven of the Pharisees, which is hypocrisy." Hypocritical leaven is to be found in the bread of the teaching of Mr. and Mrs. Martin Bobgan." But what you did NOT do is show us what this hypocritical leaven is. So show us what it is? If you do not, you just using unproven accusations because you don't like what the Bobgans are saying in their book. And, like I said before, this proves that you are either gullible or you are using a deceitful trick to slander the Bobgans. So show us the "Hypocritical leaven" that is "in the teaching of Mr. and Mrs. Martin Bobgan." If you, you have NOT proven that the Bobgans are wicked OR that there is something wrong with their teachings. I'll be waiting. By the way, why would you take the word of ONE church when there are many churches who do NOT think the Bobgans are wicked or that their teachings are false? This proves that you are desperate to find anything you can to make their teachings sound false and dangerous OR that you are very gullible. Judging by things you've said about me in the past, I think it's the first thing I said. "But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived." (2Ti 3:13 KJV) Dave Hunt and Tom McMahon are highly respected by thousands of Christian churches in America and around the world and these two men are very close friends of the Bobgans. They also promote 12 Steps to Destruction on their website bookstore http://www.thebereancall.org/store/Bobgan,%20Martin%20and%20Deidre. Here is another link the ministry of the Dave Hunt and Tom McMahon. You will see that they think very highly of the Bobgans books. I do agree with everything Dave Hunt, Tom McMahon, the Bobgans, or anyone else about EVERYTHING. But most evangelical Christians and fundamentalist Christians do NOT think that these people are "wicked". And thousands of them can see that the teachings of 12 Steps to Destruction are in PERFECT agreement with The Bible. http://www.raptureready.com/resource/hunt/dh2.html So giving us the OPINION of one crazy man and his church is worthless as evidence against the Bobgan's and their book. Here is proof that Dave Hunt and Tom McMahon are highly respected by thousands of Christian churches in America and around the world. Dave Hunt has sold four million books which means that many hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of people have read them. Common sense tells you this. Now do you really believe that out of those hundreds of thousands of people there are not at least a few thousand people who agree with Dave Hunt and his co-author Tom McMahon? If you think that hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of people have read them. Common sense tells you this. Now do you really believe that out of those hundreds of thousands (or millions) of people there are not at least a few thousand people who highly respect these authors? Common sense tells you this as well. Here's a link that tells you that Dave Hunt sold 4 million books. I'm sure there are more but you will have to look them up by searching "dave hunt four million books". http://www.alibris.com/search/books/author/Dave-Hunt And if, for some odd reason, you can't see what I just pointed out to you, do a name search and see how many big ministries link to these authors. Do you really think that these churches and ministries are recommending the books of men they don't respect. These men (especially Dave Hunt) are very popular in Christian circles and if anyone takes the time to check into it won't take long to see that this is true. You also asked me to prove that Dave Hunt and Tom McMahon and "are very close friends of the Bobgans." I know this because I have been a friend of the Bobgan's for years and they told me that they are friends. Now it's your job to prove that we are not friends and that Martin Bobgan did not tell me that they were close friends. If you can't, then you have no proof that I'm lying about this. It's just your unsupported OPINION if you think that I am. I am not guilty of anything based on the OPINIONS of you and your suspicious friends who don't like what I say and do on this forum. And it's plain to see that Dave Hunt and Tom McMahon like the Bobgans and recommend 12 Steps to Destruction. Here is a radio interview that proves it: http://www.pamweb.org/audiofiles/TBC_12-step_2.mp3 So how many Christians respect Darwin Fish, the pastor of so-called "A True Church"? Can you prove that Darwin Fish is a reliable source for finding out if the Bobgans are wicked or not? Your turn to give some proof since you are relying solely on one pastor and his church as proof that the Bobgans are wicked and that their is something wrong with the teachings in their book. If you can't, then you are deceitful (which I already know).

The Anti-AA Preacher

ok jim
fuck it.."were all stardust" tyson,dawkins,hawkings,sagan..various other people ive read

What is he typing about?

I don't know..
fuck it.."were all stardust" tyson,dawkins,hawkings,sagan..various other people ive read
Pennywise's picture

What you and the large majority "think and feel is the SANE and LOGICAL way to address the issue" of so-called recovery is going to end up doing the same thing that AA is doing right now. It is going to have the courts force "religious" people into secular options. Some people like you are going to convince them that your secular way is the only "SANE and LOGICAL way to address the issue." I can see it coming and that's why I'm opposing this intolerant ant-Christian agenda as well AA's intolerant agenda. Neither agenda can be justified by proving that true Christianity is not a "SANE" and LOGICAL alternative for "addicts". So as long as Orange is tolerant of Christianity being presented as an alternative to AA, on HIS forum, I will be opposing this anti-Christianity agenda that he never intended the forum to be used for.
Enough promos. Step up or step out.
"One turned up the other day calling himself Boniface." ~ Bill Wilson
jimbattle's picture

JR's Number One Trick: JR is a master at making one thing seem like another thing. In other words, he's a master illusionist. For example, he points out similarities between so-called Christian recovery programs and real Christianity, similarities between false religions and real Christianity, and similarities between Christian cults and real Christianity. However, he never (or almost never) mentions the big differences between these things. Why? So he can present counterfeits as real Christianity. Then he compares these counterfeits with AA to make people think that real Christianity is just like AA. That's a good trick but everybody does not fall for it. If they did, I would quit posting on this forum. One of my goals on this forum is to expose this kind of trickery so that readers can see that real Christianity and AA are very different in some very important ways. This is why Orange is allowing me to present it as alternative to AA. If real Christianity was proven to be harmful to addicts (like AA) Orange would not allow me to do this. "BLESSED are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. REJOICE, and BE EXCEEDING GLAD: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you." - Jesus Christ (Mt 5:11 KJV)

The Anti-AA Preacher

jimbattle's picture

Causeandeffect's Nonsense: Causeandeffect is a pastaferian. This is why she does not want anyone to take Dr. Kent Hovind seriously. She pretends like the fact that he is in prison proves that the scientific evidence he presents is no good. But that's silly. Being in prison has nothing to do with the scientific facts Dr. Hovind presents showing that God does exist and that The Bible is true. Not only is he the best at what he does, he also has a great sense of humor. You will not be bored. So if you have sense enough not to fall for causeandeffect's nonsense, here is a link to one of Dr. Hovind's presentations: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPp0jM0lRZs. "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth." (Ge 1:1 KJV)

The Anti-AA Preacher

jimbattle's picture

Pennywise, I'm still not going to read or comment on any of your new posts because of the stunt you pulled. However, as I checked to see what Soberman was saying about religion before I joined the OPF, I read some of your comments here http://www.orange-papers.org/forum/node/3033 . You are waaay off in your theology. For example, you said, "...this world doesn't matter anyway beyond being a test to see whether you go to Heaven or Hell". But The Bible does not teach that this world is a test to see whether you go to Heaven or Hell. It teaches that going to Heaven or Hell is by believing, not passing a test (John 3:16 KJV). Also, when I was starting to answer your questions, you showed that you didn't even know that The Bible teaches that God is three equal persons. You babbled something about a "Higher God" and a "Lower God". You can go here to read it and how I corrected you http://www.orange-papers.org/forum/node/4600. You say a lot of wrong things like this which shows that you don't know some very basic teachings of the Bible, and yet you base your arguments against Christianity on your wrong ideas about what The Bible teaches. Therefore, you are not as knowledgeable about the teachings of The Bible as you pretend to be. So, again, I recommend you find a pastor on this website to teach you the basics of Christianity before you make bad, long-winded arguments against it http://www.wayoflife.org/directory/usdirectory.php. At least then your arguments might begin to be based on what The Bible really teaches instead of what you think it teaches. You remind me a lot of Soberman who I proved wrong on this post http://www.orange-papers.org/forum/node/4562. "BLESSED are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. REJOICE, and BE EXCEEDING GLAD: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you." - Jesus Christ (Mt 5:11 KJV)

The Anti-AA Preacher

Rolf Ankermann's picture

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jimbattle's picture

Rolf's Religious Bigotry: God to homepage of Rolf's website at http://www.thefreedomtorecover.com/. Speaking of "recovery options" he says "The old adage of “if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it” is fine if it isn’t broken." There is no research to support the idea that the alternative to AA that Jesus has provided (The Christian Option) is broken. So it should be "fine" according to Rolf. However, he does not like this option being offered on this forum which is supposed to be open to all options that "ain't broke". He has an article on his blog titled "Why the 12 STEP Religion (Or any religion) is a BAD recovery model!" http://www.orange-papers.org/forum/node/4373. This is where he gives his religious views about what makes any religion (including Christianity) what he calls a "BAD recovery model!" He gives no research to back this up and yet he rails against what millions of Christians have believed for centuries about overcoming bad habits. So he's thinks that his personal views (which are unsupported by research) justifies him attacking me for offering a Christian option. This is religious bigotry, plain and simple. "BLESSED are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. REJOICE, and BE EXCEEDING GLAD: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you." - Jesus Christ (Mt 5:11 KJV)

The Anti-AA Preacher

About Jim Battle:
jimbattle's picture

Itisi, You say that I might be dangerous and Brett says that I am a criminal. But it wouldn't make sense for a dangerous criminal to use his real name when he does not have to. I could have used a false name like most other people on this forum do. And the rest of what you say about me is a false opinion based on ignorance of some very basic teachings of The Bible. There are thousands and thousands of Christians who agree with what I teach as the true Christian alternative to AA. You can find hundreds of their churches listed here and there are many more: http://www.wayoflife.org/directory/index.html. They are throughout the USA and many other countries in the world. So you and your friends are trying to fool people into believing that I'm teaching my own version of Christianity simply because you don't like what the Bible clearly teaches about some things - things that thousands of Christians believe, and have believed, for almost 2,000 years. "BLESSED are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. REJOICE, and BE EXCEEDING GLAD: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you." - Jesus Christ (Mt 5:11 KJV)

The Anti-AA Preacher

JR Harris's picture

~You can not moderate the truth. Just don't lie, steal or make stuff up out of thin air and expect to get away with it without it being pointed out to you. It's really very simple.~