Medical Malpractice

for their behaviors.

What I'm saying is that Alcoholics Anonymous effects people in such a way as to make drinking more likely... Therefore Alcoholics Anonymous is, in part, responsible for drinking behavior.

Charles Manson was not at any of the murder scenes, yet he is widely recognized as the perpetrator. He was responsible for the Tate and Labyanka murders and he never actually participated.

Ok, I thought about this today and perhaps this is a better answer:

In order to clarify my position, I would like to distinguish fault from blame. For purposes of this discussion, by "fault," I mean that the agent made a conscious choice to perform a particular action that he had the power to avoid. Whether a person is at fault is therefore an objective inquiry. By "blame," I mean the moral value judgement we choose to place on an action, e.g., whether the actor should be shamed or punished. This of course is a subjective inquiry. Now, when a person chooses to do something due to brainwashing, he is nonetheless at fault. This is because his actions were the product of choice, regardless of the idea that he may have been acting under the strong influence of the person(s) doing the brainwashing. However, depending on the circumstances, we might say that the manipulative influences were so powerful and persuasive that the agent should be held blameless (or at least blamed less).

As applied to this conversation, no doubt the alcoholic is at fault when he chooses to drink again. This is a straightforward analysis given that he made a conscious decision to consume the alcohol when he could have chosen to abstain. But when it comes to blame, I think his personal belief that he is powerless can serve as a mitigating factor. While we may blame him for the bad acts he does when drunk, I do not think he should be shamed or punished simply for picking up again. Getting sober can be painful even without AA indoctrination, and I have a great deal of sympathy for people who struggle with abstinence.

My main point in my opening comment in this thread is not that a relapser is a weak-minded loser who should be ridiculed and held blameworthy every time he falls off the wagon; my main point is simply that such a person ought to realize that he is the captain of his own ship and that his drunkenness is due to his own choices. The upshot, naturally, is that he has the power to make healthier choices, notwithstanding whatever nonsense they told him in the roomz.

While I don't have time to fully participate here, I would like to add one thought on this subject. It is my belief that many who self-medicated for trauma/abuse/anxiety issues are subjected to more of these issues by the processes in 12 step programs, and therefore are stuck in the cycle they were using/drinking over in the first place. The ideas of listing character defects, looking for "your part in it" and constantly reliving the worst part of your life can be traumatic for many people, especially if they were traumatized before. If they're still craving, furthermore, hearing constantly (and sharing) about drug use and drinking, while being told they have a disease that makes them powerless against these things (not to mention the whole "relapse is a part of recovery" schtick) can drive many to just go back to the self-medicating. With the excuse, no less, of having an inherent inability to control themselves.

I always did find these ideas incompatible, that one is powerless but must take full responsibility. It doesn't entirely fit (unless viewed in its original sense of notions of original sin and salvation, and how many delve that deep?).

I'm not saying this excuses people, but that 12 step meetings can be an exacerbating factor in chronic relapse, especially as the programs are frequently contradictory and confusing, especially to those who are trying to right their brains from having been twisted up quite a bit by substances. But viewing addiction from the POV of self-medicating instead of disease theory alone, it does make sense (at least to me) that 12 step programs are a causative factor in continued use/relapse.

Apologies for just jumping in there.