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Tue, 02/05/2013 - 00:27
I think a lot of people are catching on to the big con called Alcoholics Anonymous.
"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.
Tue, 02/05/2013 - 03:32
I don't differentiate between Anti AA or Anti Cult.
The relavent question is how can this nonsense that has been proved time and time again NOT to work for Habit Change, possibly be taken serious this day and age by the 'so called' developed Western Nations?
Its absolute gobledeygook, it would be a laughing matter is so many heads were not being screwed up and so many people were not being killed by oxford group doctrine.
The same nation that has put a man on the moon, also along with the rest of the west, supports the idea that God will cure so called 'alcoholism' if we attend stepper meetings for the rest of our lives (off shoot of the Oxford Group cult) and repeat what these idiots have been repeating for years and years (with no results).
What absolute nonsense, I dont think substance misusers alone ought to be considered insane.
Its criminal that the West follows the dictates of a man who admired Hitler. Was Bucman mentioned at the Steppers Promotional event at the UK Goverment in Westminster?
How much do we have to continue to ignore or censor these days......in NO bodies interest except cult enthusiasts and predators
......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11
Tue, 02/05/2013 - 03:50
I just dont understand how anyone even religious people dont see AA as a religious cult. Maby it is because people with substance misuse problems are stigmatized as throw away people, and AA has done alot to promote this stigma.
Understanding and Empowerment=Freedom
Wed, 02/06/2013 - 19:06
It is because society needs a place to consign people who have spent all their growing-up time drunk.
If you've been a little bad and maybe earned yourself a DUI or caused some other trouble, they don't mind using you as an example for those who have a little catching up to do. They'll consign you to the cult so they could all get to know you and try to learn all the stuff they blew off in their drunk formative years. Or they could be felons who spent years in jail or ex hookers, who need to learn how to act around nice people so they could make it in society.
Fri, 02/08/2013 - 02:56
I think many religious people or a least believers DO now realise that steppism is just a cult....possibly satans cult.
If Hell is really 'the absense of all reason' then I found cold dark Hell in steppism....NOT God.
As Mathew remarks 'many will come claiming to know me, but they are wolves in sheeps clothing, you will know them by their works'
I along with many others found only evil in the cult of steppism.......just look at wilson and smith to judge according to works. Could those two be connected with something good?
Look at the lies, misinfirmation, scaremongering, censorship and the rest. The vulnerable victims this cult preys on. The evil of steppism is there for all to see, all they have to do is open their eyes......the Orange Papers is a good place to start
Fri, 02/08/2013 - 01:52
I believe you are absolutly right.Most religious people are moderate and when presented with the facts would see organizations like AA for the cult that it is. Unfortunatly People without experience with addiction only see the soft benevalent false face of AA and are duped just like a person who has misused substances. It is only hardcore fundamentalists that I have a beef with.
Fri, 02/08/2013 - 03:24
You hit the nail on the head when you mentioned presentation of the facts. But how many people DO know the real facts of AA? How many people actually know the truth about wilson and smith? Steppers deliberatly hide the truth about AA when they wish to approach the public for further preying on vulnerable recruits. God is never mentioned publically by steppers, but we all know their version of a totalitarian controlling god is fundimental to cult doctrine. Thanks to sites like this and Anti stepper videos the truth is slowley getting out at last, but I believe we need more exposing of this dangerous cult particulaly TV documentaries investigating the true success and suicide rates of the cult.
When I was at Turning Point Westminster trying to form MM (and SMART) there was a poster on the wall advertising a 12 step workshop inviting you to go along and relate your 12 step experience. At the same time I had a phone call from the Turning Point Manager instructing me to 'go easy on AA' By my standards I was going easy on AA, but saying that SMART and MM where the future were NOT cosidered as going easy on AA by this Manager even if he secretly agreed with me. The poster did NOT qualify relating only 'conference approved stepper cult experience' such as finding god and having miracles performed for me and character defects removed etc etc (all steppers claim these things, no doubt they have previously heard many others claim such and do not want to be considered as less of a stepper by the cult faithfull ) the poster just asked a person to relate their 12 step experience.
I'd like to relate MY 12 step experience to those who provide funds for Turning Point, real 12 step experience, devoid of God, miracles, removal of character defects, freinds not only NOT recovering but dying, I beleive as a direct result of 12 step indoctrination
Fri, 02/08/2013 - 17:34
You are so right, we need publicity on TV and radio. The AA machine runs everything on the media and has successfully surpressed all who want to expose AA for what it really is. Only people who have experienced AA and escaped without getting perminantly brainwashed know the real AA.
Tue, 02/05/2013 - 09:14
a religious standpoint.
Most western religions would consider the idea of making up a god blasphemy. Most religions, with the exception of mormonism, voodoo, and ouija board enthusiasts consider miracles upon demand to be blasphemy.
Those of us that consider religion harmful and dangerous are offended by the authoritative commanding to accept the AA god.
While our criticism is generally only answered with nasty personal remarks, I would submit that the AA faith should be met with scorn, ridicule, and contempt.
The AA faith and the recovery industry, in their belief that they are perfect, cannot comprehend that those who left made a choice rather than a reaction.
Fri, 02/08/2013 - 07:52
I think even the Mormons would consider a god who is also a 'lawnmower' or 'candyfloss' or whatever as blasphemy LOL
To be honest anybody outside of the stepper cults themselves would consider these people as lunatics if they knew the truth. And lets not beat about the bush here, steppers ARE lunatics. When I left stepper land, mid meeting/indoctrination session a few years ago, someone was debating with the faithful about the concept of powerlessness over alcohol. Should we really be wasting time discussing powerlessness over a dead plant this day and age? Should we also be discussing whether god, who can be a 'bicycle tyre' does or does not remove character defects and work miracles on demand provided we attend cult indoctrination sessions this day and age?
People I tell the truth about steppism to find it amusing except if I talk about the screwed minds and suicides, then it becomes dangerous, seriously dangerous
Wed, 02/06/2013 - 07:58
Way too many grammatical errors on those videos. I recently read when writing resumes, the single biggest mistake one can make is a misspelling. The potential employer usually will stop reading at the first error and throw it aside. When you are trying to appear professional or wish to be taken seriously, YOU MUST GET RID OF THE GRAMMATICAL ERRORS! (I realize this is just internet blogging, but if you go through the trouble of creating a video and want it to be taken seriously, than geez, check your fucking spelling).
The same goes for JR. He needs to learn the difference between lose and loose and to and too, or else he just appears like another wannabe living in Moms basement.
Back to the topic. Since it seems impossible to separate the fellowship from the 12 step program, I guess I am anti AA. I like the idea of a support group, but I cannot stand the 12 step model. Without the Big Book and the steps, many of the problems in AA would solve themselves because the right people would be handling them.
At the same time however, I am not part of any movement. There is no "who WE are", there is just me with my opinions. If AA is what I think it is, it will self-destruct.
"You'll pay to know what you really think". - J.R. Bob Dobbs
Tue, 02/05/2013 - 16:02
The main video has had 3,528 views in two years. That is why I picked it. I researched what the "Anti-AA movement" is and it is at the top of Google Analytic for that query. That YouTube video just happened to be at the very top. Try the search and tell me which one you would have picked. At this time the search from Google Analytic reports back in this order:
the anti aa movement - YouTubehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-1XsybbVm8
Charlie Sheen's furious anti-AA rant: What set it off? – Telegraph Blogshttp://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/andrewmcfbrown/100077703/charlie-sheen...
The Libertarian Theme in Anti-AA Rhetoric | Points: The Blog of the ...https://pointsadhsblog.wordpress.com/2011/05/17/the-libertarian-theme-in...
Cult, 'Anti-AA' & Other Bulls**t Terminology - Stinkin' Thinkin' - Bloghttp://donewithaa.wordpress.com/2009/06/05/cult-anti-aa-other-bullst-ter...
Currently, guess which link comes up next?
Thu, 02/07/2013 - 03:38
I did have time to check spelling when I used a laptop from home. Now I am limited to using the library and its obvious constraints. I know there are spelling mistakes on posts of mine ( I did post Mottingham instead of Nottingham LOL) but at the moment I have to balance my time on the computer, alas correct spelling has to suffer as do many blogs.
I do agree incorrect spelling does show a lack of professionalism (as does powerlessness over a dead plant, miracles on demand from a god who can be ........well whatever and the rest of the stepper drivel) but at the moment I have to sacrifice something and spelling has to suffer.....perhaps the makers of some videos have similar constraints.
I think you are part of the anti AA movement whether you acknowledge this or not, its not a formal organisation as of yet
You won't have AA without the BB or those ridiculous 12 (or 13) steps and there can be legitimate support groups. I can't advise SMART or others to people who dont want any stepper cult indoctrination but can and will recommend the much smaller (at this time) HAMS
Fri, 02/08/2013 - 02:03
I agree with you that correct spelling on a video is the Ideal, but I would much rather see a video with mistakes than no video at all.
Wed, 02/06/2013 - 07:06
I believe you meant "employer" not "employee".
Wed, 02/06/2013 - 07:59
nice catch flannigan. I believe the young people would say "BURN" at that point.
Spell check does not catch everything.
Wed, 02/06/2013 - 08:40
Like I said:
"I realize THIS IS JUST INTERNET BLOGGING, but IF YOU GO THROUGH THE TROUBLE OF CREATING A VIDEO and want to be taken seriously, than geez, check your fucking spelling".
But then again, if you have to explain the difference, what's the point...?
I don't expect average bloggers on the internet to be free of grammatical errors.
Wed, 02/06/2013 - 11:57
So you attend a meeting.You are recommended a spawnspore and you know he's out of prison.
let the ball roll until he moves.shoot him.then sue them.
We all have these ideas of fair play.Why?AA does not play fair.
They play god.Correllate the data.Whatever we can do to support the Karla Braden case;we should do.
the AA lawyers will have their experts testify.why can't we also provide Karla with expert testimony??
Attend meetings and find others who have been put off of their medications.infiltrate and destroy.
Attend the very worst groups,collect data then release.One court case is not as damaging as constant
right now there is furor over Navy Seal team leader, from the assassination of Binh Ladeen, being kiled by
someone that he was spawnsporing for PTSD.He's dead.Connect the dots.Massive publicity lining what happened to this Navy Seal with what happens in AA daily.the correlation is there.One tried to cure PTSD
by taking a psycho to a gun range-he got shot with the very gun that he gave to the insane Iraqi Vet.
show how this is happening daily in AA.unqualified people pretending to expertise that they do not have.
But instead of them being killed,the sponsees are committing suicide.Connect the dots.Every yahoo post has space for comments.Same story.he thought that he actually had some knowledge about insanity.His prestense/his actual lack of any knowledge of how to help vets with PTSD got him killed.Isn't this what AA does daily.
stop thinking inside of the box.We do not need to play fair.We need to force AA to change their policies.
What will happen here in Thailand when I inform hospitals that AA is a straight up[plastic[Christian group opperating in a Buddhist country?What happens when that church learns that the God of AA is not Jesus,not the Creator God,but
group of drunks.And that at meeting it noone is allowed to even talk about Jesus????They will be foroced to move.Churches that welcomed them will close their doors.
what everyone is ignoring is that AA has successfully conned the Christian community into believing that AAis a Christian group.Back in the day it was,but not no more.ASk these ministers if they realize that the AA god is AA itself.Doors will close.One or more court cases will not destroy AA.Truth being told will destroy their so-called Christian false face.
did I spell everything correctly Yuppie????
Better to light ONE CANDLE than to curse the darkness.
Wed, 02/06/2013 - 12:04
Sorry,I spelled 4 words wrong.Get even.Revenge.All books are available from Paladin Publications.
find ways to attack and destroy.Criminals hate hard work.make them work to protect their image.
Becreative and hit low and hit hard.Where they seem strongest they are actually the weakest.Community meetings about the drug and alcohol problems facing the USA today.so many dirty tricks that can be legally used.We are still just scratching the surface of what can be done to search and to destroyAA as it exists today.
Hell burn the candle from both ends.
Wed, 02/06/2013 - 15:25
"did I spell everything correctly Yuppie????"
If you spelled everything correctly you would still be a fucking psycho Simon.
So now that makes 3 people unable to comprehend I was not talking about grammatical errors when blogging. Oh well, people just see what they want to see I guess.
I stand by what I said. If you spend hours creating videos to educate people on something, then don't put the entire effort to waste with dumb errors. I actually liked the video, except for a few times there was too much to read and the image changed before I could finish reading. I also thought it was a shame that the mistakes in grammar took away from the message.
I doubt many people care about written mistakes when blogging.
Wed, 02/06/2013 - 16:36
Send an 8 cubic yard cement truck to the AA clubhouse. Tell them you will have a crew there to work the cement and have it show up at the morning meeting time. Most small cement companies will accept payment upon delivery. Tell them a check will be waiting. Confirm the delivery the day before.
Take out a craigslist ad for a nice corvette (dont forget to nab a pic online), price it at $800 and give the clubhouse telephone number, AA hotline, or cell numbers of prominent AA people. Suggest the best time to call and make it the meeting time. Or, drive through the parking lot while an AA meeting is going on, take a pic of a nice car there owned by a regular, and advertise it at fire sale pricing using the words'divorce' and 'cheater' in the description. Do not give a phone number but a time and address of the meeting where the car should be.
Other great craigslist ads... Offer $5 each for any junk tires, just unload them in the parking lot of the clubhouse. Car batteries and old refrigerators are great too because landfills won't take them over haz mat issues. State it is a free drop off day, and the city will pick them all up for free- just drop them off in the clubhouse parking lot.
Place an ad for a free unplugged concert by Eric Clapton, or any other AA musician at the clubhouse. Give times when meetings will be happening. Works best when one of these people are touring through town. Suggest a donation of a can of food or box of cereal.
Superglue and any type of lock is a match made in heaven. Rock salt can be poured on lawns to write things. Nothing will ever grow there again.
Large parking lot? A fifty pound box of roofing nails. Its better if its a gravel rather than paved, but both will work. Watch out for diseases doing pushups out there.
Have a Realtor show up at the meeting time to list the clubhouse property for sale. That should cause some good rumors to start.
Paint stripper in an aerosol can is always better than spray paint. However, if the parking lot is not striped, parking lines painted at 6 foot intervals should put the cars so close together that cars are constantly hit by others doors, and people get boxed in. Really interesting if closet drunks drive up.
Be creative and have fun.....Of course these are only suggestions. No one is actually counseled or told what to do here. Take what you need and leave the rest.
Wed, 02/06/2013 - 17:00
That's fucking hilarious! Too funny!
Troll free AA critical forumhttp://www.expaa.org/
"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it." ~ Neil deGrasse Tyson
Wed, 02/06/2013 - 19:53
She's pissed because she can't reply.
She has been banned.
AA is a religious cult dressed up to look like a treatment for alcoholism.
Persephone In Exile
Wed, 02/06/2013 - 20:02
Damn, that's hilarious. Just read it (craigslist). It's funny after not checking in for so long and to see such frustration over a post from over here.....oh, DeCon, that may not have been the "revenge" you were wanting, but you at least have someone just burning up over you. She just tried to debunk that entire joke post of yours piece by piece....OMG.....apologies, I'm cracking up over this one.
I thought there was a ban on holding "resentments" for AAs? LOL!!!
Wed, 02/06/2013 - 21:19
Well I hope you thanked Clara for sending everyone to this site, it is a wealth of information from numerous points of view. They should also check out http://orange-papers.org/ which is getting an average of 2.6 MILLION hits a month....
Wed, 02/06/2013 - 20:50
wound up tight.
I believe the clinical psychological term for her condition is "CooKoo for Cocoa Puffs"
Wed, 02/06/2013 - 22:14
am laughing and starting a good day.Like I said we do not need to play fair.So nice o Clara to bring more people to the Orange papers.2.6 million hits per month,fantastic.One concept to remember is that control freaks hate more than anything to be laughed at.women fear death.men fear ridicule.Laughter will do so much damage to the uptight upright Aa 12 steppaahrs.It will have them grinding and gnashing their teeth so badly the dentists will make huge money.The more that we can ridicule them the more damage is done.ridicule does more than any physical beating could ever do.It hits them where they live.In their own egoes.Lets see, right now my ego can cover the state of Texas.But soon my ego will cover the entire southwest.Think outside of the BOX.
And remeber.Edison created over 10,000 failed light bulbs before he made one that worked.He just kept trying and trying until he acheived success.Faith in one's own self.and determination.
Bettter to light one CANDLE than to curse the darkness.
Thu, 02/07/2013 - 03:07
I am laughing with this whole thread. I guess I will have to check out Clara's rants on craigs list. Fundamentalists are so brittle and so full of themselves. They have no sense of humor at all :-)
Thu, 02/07/2013 - 11:37
about no cross talk :)
Mon, 02/11/2013 - 15:45
Re:about finding the religious aspect of AA offensive . I (until recently ) went to a once a week one hr group "therapy" after care at the rehab centre I was at, and I said I found the religious aspects of the 12 steps offensive , god is mentioned more times in the steps than in the 10 commandments and they tried throwing the "your hp can be anything u want" so I said "at the end of the day AA wants it to be the Christian god and I got laughed at like I said something stupid not something that isn't totally obvious to everyone but them. I dropped out after that week, need to be away from steppers.