Tom Horvath President of SMART Recovery® "Live" on Blog Talk Radio "Safe Recovery" Tues. Jan 22, 2013 3:30PM PST

JR Harris's picture
Submitted by JR Harris on Tue, 01/22/2013 - 01:05

Tom Horvath, the President of non 12 Step SMART Recovery® and Practical Recovery (SM) will be "Live" on Blog Talk Radio "Safe Recovery" Tues. Jan 22, 2013 at 3:30PM PST 6:30PM EST & 11:30PM GMT

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/saferecovery/2013/01/22/tom-horvath-preside...

Call in 818-475-9211 or Chat Live during the show! If you miss the show, replays are usually available shortly after.

http://www.smartrecovery.org/

http://www.practicalrecovery.com/
Practical Recovery Inc.
Outpatient Center
8950 Villa La Jolla Drive
Suite B214
La Jolla CA 92037-1708

Comments

NoAAUK's picture

NoAAUK

Tue, 01/22/2013 - 03:39

I wont listen to anything that man says.

Still include that video on the SMART Recovery faclitators course, which says 'we do not critise AA at SMART' or words to that effect. A stepper complete with stepper BS cult speak attends a SMART meeting, whist an obvious drunk guy remarks (what most of us say on here) that steppism is just bunk.

Don't you realise Tom, that many of us that have been exposed to the stepper cult BS, often on the advise of others, many professionals like you ( those of us that have NOT commited suicide, that is), NEED deprogramming from the stepper cult. We NEED reasuring that stepper cult indoctrination IS just nonsense.

Just after I listened to Tom Hogarth Phd, President of SMART , inform us on the SMART facilitators course that SMART does NOT critisice AA (The off shoot of a 1930's cult religion) I was locked out of the SMART meeting at Turning Point Westminster London by NA member and Turning Point Professional Councellor Jackie Bamford who proceeded to run the SMART meeting from then on. So much for peer supported alternative to the stepper cult (No I'm not laughing, its sad....very sad indeed

When I queried SMART UK about this behaviour I was at first told that the Turning Point Westminster SMART meeting would be taken off the SMART UK list and investigated. Months later, after the meeting was run by the Stepper FULL TIME councellor, as an unofficial SMART meeting, (and the Westminster SMART meeting was back on the official SMART UK list9
I was told by SMART UK that the said stepper full time councellor had 'completed a SMART facillitator course.' I'm pretty sure that wilson could have completed a SMART facilitators course while tripping his socks of on acid, the SMART facilitators course is most definitly NOT hard and just helps to reinforce the us and them fellings inherent in the stepper cult sponsor sponcee relationship so necessary for supression of individual thought, amongst other things

Any comment Tom?

......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11

dave

Tue, 01/22/2013 - 17:37

When you wrote, "We NEED reasuring that stepper cult indoctrination IS just nonsense" , I was surprised. I did not think you needed reassuring.

Sue

Tue, 01/22/2013 - 21:29

I know I have. Why do AA devotees want to attend Smart meetings? Have they not been full filled in AA? Are they searching for another option? I don't understand; is there something missing in their recovery? What do you think?

dave

Tue, 01/22/2013 - 21:34

I don't know much about smart except what I have read on their website. I have a friend who has been to 2 meetings and the excercises he did made sense to me. Everything I read about it sounds great. In my opinion here is what is missing (for some people) in aa and this may include me. I don't think aa is designed to motivate people to achieve some life goals. AA does not talk about setting goals and improving one's financial situation for example. From what I have read smart is attractive to me. I also think I would keep my aa experience out of smart if I went. I have had several people in their early 20's recommend the book to me.

I would have to think harder to decide if I needed reasurance with my involvement with aa. I don't think I have needed much.

dave

Tue, 01/22/2013 - 21:53

I find it easy to go to aa meetings and feel good, meanwhile putting some of my life off. Smart seems like a good way to stop procrastinating.

Sue

Tue, 01/22/2013 - 22:20

Nothing wrong with looking at all your options. Thats smart.

Sue

Tue, 01/22/2013 - 22:06

Im not positive but dont AA and smart contradict one another? Wouldnt that be confusing? However, you seem to recognize the positive aspects of smart. Why not just go to AA and figure that out for yourself? What exactly holds you back in AA?

I wish everyone would keep their AA experience out of Smart; but I guess thats up to Smart.

Why would you have to think harder about needing reassurance with AA involvement? Hmmm, either you do or you dont. Arent you sure about your involvement with AA? The positive must out way the negative. Right? How would you incorporate Smart with AA in your life? I forgot; the life goals. Why doesnt that happen in AA? Whats the problem?

dave

Tue, 01/22/2013 - 22:24

I dont think I ever needed any reasurance. I used to think I would quit going one day, but when I had about 7 years sober it was clear to me that I should stay in aa and I wanted to. I have absolutely no need to go to smart for my drinking. I still smoke though. When I look at the 4 point program I would be concerned with #1 and #4. I could do better with both of these in my opinion. For me smart would not be in conflict because I would not be going there for drinking. I would be getting outside help according to aa. I would also see it as an outside issue, which is more aa speak. There is more to life than just not drinking and I think anything to further improve one's life is a good thing.

Sue

Tue, 01/22/2013 - 22:39

I was confused because you just said this and I dont think we were discussing drinking:

"I don't think aa is designed to motivate people to achieve some life goals. AA does not talk about setting goals and improving one's financial situation for example. From what I have read smart is attractive to me. "

I just thought if Smart would motivate you and help you set goals; "thats a good thing". Good night!

dave

Tue, 01/22/2013 - 22:50

Sorry if I sounded snippy. When I read my comments they sound a little rigid to me sometimes.

stevef

Wed, 01/23/2013 - 09:25

Interesting that devotees of Wilsonism attend meetings for a daily reprieve from the lash of alcoholism lest a relapse lead to jail,institutions or death. In spite of the fact that the overwhelming weight of evidence puts smoking as the number one killer, at least 4 to 5 times as much as alcohol and all other drugs combined.
Sorry. Am I killing alcoholics by saying this?
Perhaps Wilsons disciples only use the sure fire cure for substance misuse for the substances they don't like anymore. As for nicotine, frankly they are not ready to quit. Even if it means death by emphysema in a hospice in Florida but not before threatening to punch the nurse who is caring for them if she doesn't bring them a whiskey.
Oh well, best get to a meeting lest I die in the gutter. We all know that alcoholism is caused by failure to surrender to Wilsons religion and has nothing to do with having drunk too much alcohol.

dave

Wed, 01/23/2013 - 16:43

are affecting any alcoholics. No need to apologize.

NoAAUK's picture

NoAAUK

Sat, 01/26/2013 - 03:26

Why are steppers obssesed with the 'time' they have spent in the cult? Is it because of the birthday cakes? or is it just that you have more status in the cult if you have attended longer or regurgitated the BS more often.

Dont you think 7 years talking oxford group garbage is more than enough time wasted. You can learn all about steppism in 3 months after that time i doubt you will have heard anything new, so by my calculations you have not heard anything new for 6 years 9 months

......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11

dave

Sat, 01/26/2013 - 20:33

I have been sober for 18 years. It took me about 7 years to finish the steps. I still learn things today in aa. My relationship with god has also grown. Overall I don't have any regrets attending aa because it has truly enhanced my life.

After writing that I'm wondering why I'm still on this forum, I find it generally negative.

Gunthar2000's picture

Gunthar2000

Sat, 01/26/2013 - 20:59

There are many people on this forum who feel that they have been harmed by their involvement with 12-step groups. This place serves as a sort of refuge for people escaping Alcoholics Anonymous and other 12-step groups.
After years of cult brainwashing, I needed to validate my new positions through interaction with others who felt the same way I do. I find this forum to be a huge resource in the process of deprogramming myself from the self-defeating nonsense I learned at AA.
No one is forcing you to post here, dave. You are free to leave any time you like.

AA is a religious cult dressed up to look like a treatment for alcoholism.

Gunthar2000

http://www.expaa.org/

dave

Sat, 01/26/2013 - 21:39

I know I can leave when I want. I don't have a problem with anyone who leaves aa. You said," I find this forum to be a huge resource in the process of deprogramming myself from the self-defeating nonsense I learned at AA". I would not argue with you because that is how it is for you and any comments from me would be speculative. I don't know you. I honestly respect your decision. I don't believe aa is a cult, but I can see how someone would see it that way and I would not argue that with you.

JR Harris's picture

JR Harris

Sat, 01/26/2013 - 21:03

Dave, AA is Spiritualist, not Religious group. Why do you keep bringing up god and atheists? By god do you mean Saint Boniface who helped to write the 12&12?

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

dave

Sat, 01/26/2013 - 21:42

implies something about me. I'm just talking about myself.

JR Harris's picture

JR Harris

Sat, 01/26/2013 - 22:00

Well that is a good excuse. You do realize that AA members are the masters of "denial" and by their association with the cult of Alcoholics Anonymous admit it?

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

NoAAUK's picture

NoAAUK

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 02:09

'It took me about 7 years to finish the steps.'

The steps not only do NOT work, they are now veiwed by many, beliver and non believer alike, as just oxford group nonsense used by a predatory cult to ensnare members, who DO not want to be ensnared by such a cult. If YOU want to waste 7 years of your life, contemplating oxford group indoctrination, then thats up to you. But what about step 12?

You have already mentioned that you sponsor people in the cult. Do these people really want to practice oxford group, thought control nonsense, day in day out, or do they just want to find an answer to their drink problem? I think most people want to find an answer to their drink problem and are conned that the only way to find an answer to such a problem is to join a predatory cult for life and to con other frightened victims into joining this cult as well.

In a way I do admire steppers, to admit to conning the scared and vulnerable into a lifetimes membership of a predatory cult, which is full of sexual predation and suicide to name just two totally repulsive qualities, is really something most people would (and do) hide...personally I, after having read the Orange Papers and other such websites, heard the stories and seen first hand much of what has been mentioned here and elsewhere (except of course in the many many stepper cult meetings YOU attended, which were perfect and totally spiritually uplifting) I would be ashamed to admit to still being a stepper.

But thats just me (and most people judging by the stepper cult retention rate)

......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11

NoAAUK's picture

NoAAUK

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 06:30

Repeat, have to use the library internet at the moment, its a bit like going back in time.......similar to a stepper cult indoctrination session/meeting in that respect

......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11

NoAAUK's picture

NoAAUK

Sat, 01/26/2013 - 03:36

'but dont AA and smart contradict one another?'

Of course they do in theory, thats the big joke LOL

That stepper who locked me out and took over my meeting at Turning Point Westminster London must either be very confused (for a start SMART doesnt believe problem drinking is a disease. the corner stone of steppism) or else just likes to run meetings.
I know they did have a stepper meeting at this venue but it closed

As critic quite rightly stated, with the demise of steppism, its predators will just seek some alternative, what could be better than SMART,

......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11

NoAAUK's picture

NoAAUK

Sat, 01/26/2013 - 03:06

I dont need reasuring now, I realise steppism is just bunk, perhaps you will one day, maybe when you understand that God does NOT give you orders nor work miracles for you and other steppers at will nor remove your shortcomings.

Because of the success of this lying fearmongering predatory cult, in particular amongst the ill informed (in the UK at any rate) websites like this one have sprung up to reasure those who, in a weakened bemused state, have been conned by the promoters of the cult into beleiving the oxford group nonsense they try to foist onto vulnerable vivtims

......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11

criticoolthinking

Thu, 01/24/2013 - 14:40

people like horvath and the doc gabriel from canada are walking on egg shells about aa to remain polite so they can court the rehab industry; but its like saying let's take the warning labels off all medicines - lets not talk about side effects...and that's not helping ...it's ass kissing to appease the sway aa holds over public institutions and sentiment. i hate appeasing people at the cost of my health.

If I could moderate, I'd do it alot!

live_free_or_die's picture

live_free_or_die

Fri, 01/25/2013 - 18:21

AA harms more people than it helps. Why should anybody tip toe around AA? In fact AA kills some people by driving them to suicide. WTF!!

Alcoholics Anonymous: MyNotGodHasItCovered®
http://www.expaa.org/
http://bereanresearch.com/
http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/
NOT AA:
Rational Recovery, SOS, HAMS
http://alcoholabusesolutions.com/

NoAAUK's picture

NoAAUK

Sat, 01/26/2013 - 03:16

I love you post above, you say it all......it IS just ass kissing to appease the sway steppism holds over public institutions and ill informed others.

It is tantamount to taking the warning labels off medicines and what goes on in the 'so called' alternatives want exposing the same as the steppers do. The whole substance misuse recovery (?) industry is one big mess (in the US and UK at any rate) thanks to wilson and his followers

......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11

criticoolthinking

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 09:13

@noaauk & @lford @all; perhaps we need some kind of universalist recovery group where you can say anything under the universal umbrella of respecting unique personal recovery. but many of the old social problems would still haunt such a group. but at least it would not be some one else's ideology getting in the way. and new innovation could flourish. be well be blessed and get lucky.

If I could moderate, I'd do it alot!

criticoolthinking

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 10:18

why throw away the experience strength and hope of moderators like sos & smart
why censor people who are religious if that's their individual thing
why not mix and get along?
looks like hams does all that?
i'm gonna read about it
but i am still leery about any ""programs"" or "methods"

If I could moderate, I'd do it alot!

seagal007

Wed, 01/30/2013 - 04:00

You are so right!!! We need to stop walking on eggshells because of the AA cult.

Understanding and Empowerment=Freedom

criticoolthinking

Wed, 01/30/2013 - 09:38

i totally support aa-free deprogramming groups. yet it is a reaction to the repressive recover ideas of aa. censoring is what i hate about aa. so hams seems to be a model that is strong enough to not be subverted by steppers and yet still has "freedom of recovery speech". this is a true open minded way forward to free will in recovery. free will is the antithesis of all addiction.

If I could moderate, I'd do it alot!

budlia

Fri, 02/01/2013 - 13:06

Tom Horvath, is a 2 hatter, this is how he recruits for his private clinic http://www.practicalrecovery.com/

They used to have the costs on the site but i can't see them now (probably hidden as i put them online before) they were very expensive, horvath just jumped on the band wagon of the revolving door industry

massive's picture

massive

Tue, 01/22/2013 - 17:24

NOAAUK Would you like me to forward this to TOM ? Thats horrible ...

Massive

NoAAUK's picture

NoAAUK

Sat, 01/26/2013 - 02:57

Feel free to forward this to Tom Horgarth but he did specifically rebuke someone for saying AA was a load of crap or words to that effect, for all to see on the SMART Facilitators course, thereby giving steppers the green light to infiltrate his network, with freinds like that, who needs enemies.

There was a stepper regurgitating all the stepper BS 'I'm an alcoholic blah! blah! blah! exactly the regurgitated garbage that many people who attend a 'so called' alternative do NOT wish to hear. If people want to hear and speak that rubbish then surley there are more that enough stepper cult indoctrination sessions taking place in any town in the western hemisphere, why do they have to come and attend other peoples meetings (and poke their noses into other peoples websites), is it because of step twelve?

......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11

criticoolthinking

Thu, 01/24/2013 - 14:14

i don't fit with any linear program of one dimensional words. i'm a quasi dynamic human being. words and meanings that fit yesterday in one situation don't fit the process today. sometimes the feelings need worked on not the actions. sometimes the thinking needs changed not the feelings. etc etc. horvath's / smart's system is not flexible enough for me. it'd drive me up a wall just like aa. plus with the courts sentencing to smart its a matter of time before something goes wrong there too i do like removing the sponsor thing but sometimes a mentor is healthy see what i mean. i like commenting online in loose association with others. thanks all.

If I could moderate, I'd do it alot!

istj04

Sun, 01/27/2013 - 14:10

Having been at one time (5 years ago!) a "SMART Facilitator", I can personally attest that Dr. Horvath (whom I have met more then once!) is a bit too "controlling" over the "format" of SMART Recovery meetings. Apparently, the "script" and LENGTH of a "SMART Recovery" meeting MUST BE RIGOUROUSLY ADHERED TO, to be "listed" and supported in the "SMART Recovery" network (not unlike a certain, long-existing 12-Step organization I am aware of!). While I agree with the philosophy of SMART, and show its "Who We Are" DVD to my DUI Program clients, until some "autonomy" latitude is granted to local meetings, I will be keeping my distance in supporting the growth of SMART Recovery!

live_free_or_die's picture

live_free_or_die

Sun, 01/27/2013 - 14:34

So what programs other than AA do you, or would you recommend if you had to?

I just had a conversation 2 days ago on this very subject and we were discussing SMART & their policies. I was saying that I had heard some things that I can't support. And I am thinking of removing SMART from my tag line.

Rational Recovery? HAMS? SOS?

Alcoholics Anonymous: MyNotGodHasItCovered®
http://www.expaa.org/
http://bereanresearch.com/
http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/
NOT AA:
Rational Recovery, SOS, HAMS
http://alcoholabusesolutions.com/

NoAAUK's picture

NoAAUK

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 06:57

I too will NOT recomend SMART Recovery, from personal experience. A Problem Drug user once commented that addicts do NOT want too much organisation in things. I thought the format of a SMART meeting NOT helpfull to people engaged in habit control and prefered the much less formal meeting structure we adopted at MM meetings in the UK. The blackboard thing by which SMART facilitators are supposed to instruct (?) substance misusers on how NOT to abuse their DOC by using SMART doctrine I found frankly laughable. I just started SMART in Mansfield and Westminster because I thought anything was an improvement on the cult of steppism, but now realise and know there are better ways that SMART.

Somebody may have better experience of SMART than me, feel free to comment. The Westminster meeting I formed was hijacked and run by a stepper with the consent of SMART UK, the Bromley SMART Meeting and one in Devon was started by a stepper. The Nottingham SMART meeting was taken over by an advocate of Steppism if not a member of the stepper cult. This same advocate of steppism who worked full time for Nottingham Self (not God) Help told me that Nottingham Self Help would no longer support my Nottingham MM meeting because a client (who I believe but cannot proclaim was Oxford Corner) said they had reports comming back from Service users that I was running MM meetings under the influence of Alcohol.

These Nottingham MM meetings took place on APAS's premises where anyone under the influence of Alcohol would be shown the door, let alone a meeting facilitator. What Service users of any client of Nottingham Self (?) Help used Nottingham MM meetings? Perhaps lying is prevalent through out the so called 'recovery' industry......same as steppism.........is the 'recovery' industry the same thing as steppism as many who visit this website claim?

......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11

budlia

Fri, 02/01/2013 - 13:19

"Perhaps lying is prevalent through out the so called 'recovery' industry......same as steppism.........is the 'recovery' industry the same thing as steppism "

Of course it is , as far as i can see , the only person speaking the truth about the recovery industry is Jack Trimpey