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Now that Lance Armstrong has appeared on Oprah & explained that drugs can also be used for performance enhanceing aspects, can we give Bill the benifit of the doubt & excuse him on the fellowships "sugested" grounds that he was only experianting with god conscienceness & not attempting to get high?
Comments
wozza
Fri, 01/18/2013 - 20:46
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I have always excused him
I am a member of AA. As far as I'm concerned, it's all about not drinking. I don't care if you're snorting cocaine, shooting smack, spending all day in casinos and all night in brothels. For me it's only about not drinking. So I smoke some pot now and then, why should anyone in AA give a fuck? I'd love to try some acid, but don't know how to get it.
What I can't excuse is the sanctimonious attitude of AA members. They seem to believe in some blessed state of "sobriety", which means not taking "mind or mood altering chemicals" (sic). They preach this while committing suicide by cigarette, wiring themselves with caffeine and pigging out on sugar. Hypocrites.
live_free_or_die
Sat, 01/19/2013 - 06:19
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@wozza
wozza said: "I am a member of AA. As far as I'm concerned, it's all about not drinking."
How does AA help with not drinking, in your opinion? How has AA helped you to stop drinking?
It is my understanding that the AA program is about finding god, who then arrests the "disease" of drinking, but only one day at a time. This one day at a time deal is due to the fact that the "disease" of drinking is incurable (according to Bill W, Marty Mann ) Is this not the AA party line?
Btw, as you say wozza, AA members are often hypocrites, and it seems to me that many are also bigots. I don't think anyone in AA should give a fuck about you smoking pot either. However, AA's sister organization, NA, has a different take.
What I can't excuse, wozza, is the continued AAproved sentencing of violent criminals and sexual predators to meetings where there are vulnerable people there that are simply looking for help with substance overuse. What I can't excuse is the continued AAproved policy of allowing sexual harrassment in all its ugly forms to continue.
And finally, wozza, What I can't excuse is the suicides that AA is responsible for due to the failure of the promised promises never materializing. AA is not the altruistic orgnaization that the public has been duped into believing it is. AA is a morally and ethically bankrupt organization.
Alcoholics Anonymous: MyNotGodHasItCovered®
http://www.expaa.org/
http://bereanresearch.com/
http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/
NOT AA:
Rational Recovery, SOS, HAMS
http://alcoholabusesolutions.com/
wozza
Sat, 01/19/2013 - 12:32
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Don't pick up the first drink
I need to be reminded about that. If I forget, I will drink. If I remember, no way will I drink.
The groups I go to here in Brisbane in Australia, we just ignore the steps and Bill Wilson's book. Other groups in the area hate us.
wozza
Sat, 01/19/2013 - 12:36
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Don't pick up the first drink
-- I don't get how this forum works. I'm trying to reply to live_free_or_die
I need to be reminded about that. If I forget, I will drink. If I remember, no way will I drink.
The groups I go to here in Brisbane in Australia, we just ignore the steps and Bill Wilson's book and the program. One thing we don't ignore is the third tradition. Other groups in the area hate us.
Pennywise
Sat, 01/19/2013 - 14:35
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Realistically speaking, is
Realistically speaking, is there any possibility that you would forget something as obvious as the fact that not taking the first drink is a guaranteed way to sobriety?
"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid."
live_free_or_die
Sat, 01/19/2013 - 14:48
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@wozza
This article is written by nationally recognized historian and oft-quoted Alcoholics Anonymous archivist Mitchell K.
http://alcoholism.about.com/library/blmitch12.htm
The Saddest Day In A.A. History
The history of Alcoholics Anonymous is constantly being made. Events that happen today comprise a page in the overall picture that future generations of alcoholics who seek A.A.'s help will eventually read. Recent events, sad to say, are part of the darkest days in A.A.'s future history.
A member of Alcoholics Anonymous in Germany, a brother in recovery, has been attacked by the very organization espousing spiritual principles - Alcoholics Anonymous.
As a student of the history of Alcoholics Anonymous for the past 18 years, and in almost 23 years of sobriety, this writer is having a difficult time reconciling what A.A. has stood for in his own personal recovery journey with recent actions. These actions taken and endorsed by the General Service structure of Alcoholics Anonymous worldwide have disturbed this writer to the point of questioning his own continuing membership in this fellowship.
This writer has believed that the Twelve Steps and Twelve Traditions stood for a way of life, based upon rigorous honesty and spiritual principles. However, recent events brought to light have caused personal questioning of the actual validity and placing into practice of these principles.
A member of Alcoholics Anonymous in Germany, a brother in recovery, has been attacked by the very organization espousing spiritual principles - Alcoholics Anonymous. This brother has been vilified and ostracized by Alcoholics Anonymous to the extent that his membership and personal continued sobriety could be in jeopardy. All in the name of unity, but in reality, due to problems relating to money and property.
The "Crime"
The individual in Germany and the group he belongs to had translated and printed A.A.'s basic text into their native tongue. They printed first 164 pages of the original text, now in the public domain due to the lapse of the copyright. Their purpose was to carry the message of recovery in accordance with A.A.'s 5th Tradition: "Each Alcoholics Anonymous group ought to be a spiritual entity having but one primary purpose - that of carrying its message to the alcoholic who still suffers." (Long Form)
The legal action demands that this A.A. member in Germany no longer purchase, lend, own or give away ANY literature related to recovery.
These little blue books were being distributed at no charge to A.A. members at no charge. They were given away to members as well as in treatment centers, jails and prisons. Now, due to personally punitive legal measures initiated by the General Service Office in Germany (AAeV) and Alcoholics Anonymous World Services, Inc. in New York City (AAWS) this carrying the message of recovery may have to cease.
The individual in Germany has been taken to court by AAeV and AAWS not only to stop both him and the A.A. Group he belongs to from printing and distributing literature in the public domain, but to, in effect, throw him out of Alcoholics Anonymous.
The legal action demands that this A.A. member in Germany no longer purchase, lend, own or give away ANY literature related to recovery. This includes all A.A. literature, and literature relating to recovery from alcoholism by any other publisher. He cannot give a newcomer a Big Book, go on Twelve Step calls with any literature, or have in his possession A.A.'s basic text.
Third Tradition
According to the 3rd Tradition (Long Form): "Our membership ought to include all who suffer from alcoholism. Hence we may refuse none who wish to recover. Nor ought A.A. membership ever depend upon money or conformity…" By taking away his ability to carry the message to the still sick and suffering alcoholic, AAeV in Germany and AAWS in New York have refused to allow the German A.A. member continued membership in A.A. They have in essence, placed his continued recovery in jeopardy by his not being able to keep what he has by giving it away. This is the cornerstone of Alcoholics Anonymous - one drunk helping another.
The German AAeV wants to take all of the literature owned by this individual A.A. member and the Group he belongs to and destroy it.
This legal action taken by AAeV in Germany and endorsed by the General Service Board of Trustees of Alcoholics Anonymous World Services, Inc., George D., General Service Manager of AAWS and others in the General Service structure also includes possible incarceration of this A.A. member in Germany and fines running into the tens of thousands of dollars. A.A. World Services desires to place this A.A. member in financial ruin as well as kicking him out of A.A.
AAWS refused to consider recent proposals regarding continued litigation to be placed on the agenda of the upcoming World Service Conference. Even the Chair of the Board of Trustees, Gary Glynn (non-alcoholic Trustee) had been reported to have said that there are times when the Traditions must be cast aside. At a recent meeting in Germany, Al H., Chairperson of the General Service Conference of Great Britain stated that he didn't care if this German A.A. member went to jail or drank again. The German AAeV wants to take all of the literature owned by this individual A.A. member and the Group he belongs to and destroy it. This writer wonders if the German General Service Office remembers in the world's not too distant past, the practice of book burning once so prevalent in Germany?
In Warranty Five of the Twelfth Concept for World Service it states: "That no Conference action ever be personally punitive or an incitement to public controversy." The endorsement by the Board of Trustees, AAWS and therefore, the Conference of taking an individual A.A. member into the public courts, threatening his financial future, his freedom (with possible incarceration), his ability to remain a member of Alcoholics Anonymous and by causing the A.A. name to be placed in a position of incitement to public controversy is appalling.
If, as members of Alcoholics Anonymous, we allow a fellow member to be placed in this position who or what is next?
In many parts of the world, A.A. books sell for as much as $45.00. In an effort to bring recovery to as many people as possible by giving away free books, can we allow Alcoholics Anonymous World Services, Inc. to kick someone out of A.A., place them in financial ruin and give the message to the public that we don't care? This member's trail begins on March 26, 1998. This will be the saddest day in A.A. history.
Mitchell K.
the_archivist@excite.com
*******************************************************
Is this your third tradition you speak of wozza? As you have said, AA is hypocritical.
And, AA is not a solution to quitting drinking. I think you have said as much yourself in that your group only recognizes the third tradition and ignores the rest of AA's Billshit.
Alcoholics Anonymous: MyNotGodHasItCovered®
http://www.expaa.org/
http://bereanresearch.com/
http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/
NOT AA:
Rational Recovery, SOS, HAMS
http://alcoholabusesolutions.com/
live_free_or_die
Sat, 01/19/2013 - 15:20
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.
Alcoholics Anonymous: MyNotGodHasItCovered®
http://www.expaa.org/
http://bereanresearch.com/
http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/
NOT AA:
Rational Recovery, SOS, HAMS
http://alcoholabusesolutions.com/
Brett
Sun, 01/20/2013 - 18:03
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Get a tattoo, Wozza
If ya can't remember drinking stuffs ya up, get a tattoo on the back of both hands may I "suggest" one that says "Don't Forget"
I am also familiar with groups around Brisbane Qld, for the benifit of international forum members it should be noted that, Qld is an extremely conservative state commonly thought by the rest of Australia as being 20 years behind the times, bearing in mind that the rest of the country is 10 years behind.
A.A without Billshit & his bloody steps clearly can't be A.A. you and ya mates have obviously started another type of recovery group yet continue to ride the drawcard of the A.A name.
If you have trouble remembering not to drink lest the dangers, how do you remember to look both ways before you cross the road, mate its a bloody mirical you've survived this long, maybe bill was right there really is a god who specifically looks after alcoholics until they are ready to be saved by those bloody steps.
Brett
btnben
Sun, 01/20/2013 - 18:09
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Hey Brett
Not burnt to a crisp yet then?...lol. Good to see you again. Last time we spoke you were as busy as a one legged man at a bum kicking contest...lol (Love that phrase). Good to see you up and shouting.
God damn it, get me a whiskey
Bill W, Deathbed
http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc
Brett
Sun, 01/20/2013 - 18:19
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@ btnben
Still flat out like a lizard drinkinking, no computer so I have to use the librarys but I'll log in when I can.
Good to see you & others are still about fighting the good fight.
Brett
Free
Sun, 01/20/2013 - 20:30
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The Brisbane groups
were unusual compared to the Sydney and Newcastle groups. Back in the days when I was indoctrinated and believed I needed to attend in order to not drink (even while on vacation), I attended a few. Not much mention of god, HP, BB or steps, but ALL of the slogans - particularly 'one day at a time'. Also, most shares centred on the drunkalouge. These groups appeared to be support groups more than anything else. Wondering what wozza's take is on this.
Free
Sun, 01/20/2013 - 02:59
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@ wozza
If there was an alternative support group (like SMART or HAMS) in your area, would you attend that instead of aa?
DeConstructor
Sat, 01/19/2013 - 05:41
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I wonder if Oprah
will have a rematch with lance like she did with our little friend James Frey.
live_free_or_die
Sat, 01/19/2013 - 06:51
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There is no excusing Bill W.
However, Lance used performance enhancing drugs to better his chances at winning bicycle races.
Just think what our beloved sex pervert Bill W. could have done with all of the sexual enhancing drugs such as Viagra? And Bill W. would have been buying pills to increase his mansize to, I have no doubt.
Bill W. was a whacked out conman, a lying cheating husband who spawned a religious cult, probably spawned a few kids out of wedlock or caused women in his day to seek out seedy "doctors" for abortions.
Nope, no excuses for Bill W.
Alcoholics Anonymous: MyNotGodHasItCovered®
http://www.expaa.org/
http://bereanresearch.com/
http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/
NOT AA:
Rational Recovery, SOS, HAMS
http://alcoholabusesolutions.com/
Free
Sun, 01/20/2013 - 20:16
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Hey Brett
Good topic. My take on Wilson is that he was experimental. He wanted to recapture that first belladonna induced 'God' experience, again and again. I believe he was manipulative, a liar, a cheat - not exactly somebody you'd want as a friend, husband, business-partner, guru. However, transcendence was what he was really after; any method by which to escape the mind-hell of his depression.