The “Big Bills” staying sober in a Cave

Part 2

Sober man: See also, then, men carrying past the wall implements of all kinds that rise above the wall and human images and shapes of animals as well, shaped in stone and wood and every material some of these bearers presumably speaking and others silent.

Big Bill:
A strange image you speak of and strange prisoners.

Sober man: Like to us, I said.
For, to begin with, tell me do you think that these men would have seen anything of themselves or of one another except the shadows cast from the fire on the wall of the cave that fronted them?

Big Bill:
How could they, he said, if they were compelled to hold their heads unmoved through life?

To be continued………..

Be sure you understand my description of the AA group.
Sober-man: Think about this. Don’t leave it until you understand it.

End of Part 2:

Part 3

Sober man: And again, would not the same be true of the objects carried past them?

Big Bill:
Surely he said.

Sober man: If then they were able to talk to one another, do you not think that they would suppose that in naming the things that they saw they were naming the passing objects?

Big Bills:
Necessarily

Sober man: And if their prison had an echo from the wall opposite them when one of the passers-by uttered a sound, do you think that they would suppose anything else than the passing shadow to be the speaker?

Big Bill:
By Zeus, I do not, said he.

Sober-man: Then in every way such prisoners would deem reality to be nothing else than the shadows of the artificial objects.

Big Bill:
Quite inevitably, he said.

Sober man: Consider, then, what would be the manner of the release and healing from these bonds and this folly if in the course of nature something of this sort should happen to them.

Sober man: When one was freed from his fetters and compelled to stand up suddenly and turn his head around and walk and to lift up his eyes to the light, and in doing all this felt pain and, because of the dazzle and glitter of the light, was unable to discern the objects whose shadows he formerly saw, what do you suppose would be his answer if someone told him that what he’d had seen before was all a cheat and an illusion, but that now, being nearer to reality and turned toward more real things, he saw more truly?

Sober man: And if also one should point out to him each of the passing objects and constrain him by questions to say what it is, do you not think that he would be at a loss and that he would regard what he formerly saw as more real than the things now pointed out to him?

Big Bill:
Far more real, he said.

Sober man: And if he were compelled to look at the light itself, would not that pain his eyes, and would he not turn away and flee to those things which he is able to discern and regard them as in very deed more clear and exact than the objects pointed out?

Big Bill:
It is so, he said.

Sober_man
End of part 3........
To be continued......

Part 4

Sober man: And if, said I, someone should drag him thence {from there} by force up the ascent which is rough and steep, and not let him go before he had drawn him out into the light of the sun, do you not think that he would find it painful to be so haled along, and would chafe at it, and when he came out into the light, that his eyes would be filled with its beams so that he would not be able to see even one of the things that we call real?

Big Bill:
Why, no, not immediately, he said.

Sober man: Then there would be need of habituation (: to make used to something); I take it, to enable him to see the things higher up. And at first he would most easily discern (to recognize or identify as separate and distinct) the shadows and, after that, the likenesses or reflections in water of men and other things, and later, the things themselves, and from these he would go on to contemplate the appearances in the heavens and heaven itself, more easily by night, looking at the light of the stars and the moon, than by day the sun and the sun's light.

Big Bills:
Of course he said.

Sober man: And so, finally, I suppose, he would be able to look upon the sun itself and see its true nature, not by reflections in water or phantasms {a creation of the imagination or fancy fantasy} of it in an alien setting, but in and by itself in its own place.

Big Bill:
Necessarily, he said.

Sober man: And at this point he would infer and conclude that this it is that provides the seasons and the courses of the year and presides over all things in the visible region, and is in some sort the cause of all these things that they had seen.

Big Bill::
Obviously, he said, that would be the next step.

Sober-man

End of part 4....
To be continued....

Part 5
Sober man: Now if he should be required to contend (: to strive in debate: ARGUE) with these perpetual prisoners in 'evaluating' these shadows while his vision was still dim and before his eyes were accustomed to the dark—and this time required for habituation would not be very short—would he not provoke laughter, and would it not be said of him that he had returned from his journey aloft with his eyes ruined and that it was not worth while even to attempt the ascent? And if it were possible to lay hands on and to kill the man who tried to release them and lead them up, would they not kill him?

Big Bill:
They certainly would, he said.

Sober man: This image then, dear Big Bill, we must apply as a whole to all that has been said, likening the region revealed through sight to the habitation of the prison, and the light of the fire in it to the power of the sun. And if you assume that the ascent and the contemplation of the things above is the soul's ascension to the intelligible region, you will not miss my surmise, since that is what you desire to hear.

Sober man: But Gods knows whether it is true. But, at any rate, my dream as it appears to me is that in the region of the known the last thing to be seen and hardly seen is the idea of good, and that when seen it must needs point us to the conclusion that this is indeed the cause for all things of all that is right and beautiful, giving birth in the visible world to light, and the author of light and itself in the intelligible world being the authentic source of truth and reason, and that anyone who is to act wisely in private or public must have caught sight of this.

Big Bill::
I concur, he said, so far as I am able.

End of Part 5

Soberman

Part 6

Sober man: Come then,said I and join me in this further thought, and do not be surprised that those who have attained to this height are not willing to occupy themselves with the affairs of men, but their souls ever feel the upward urge and the yearning for that sojourn {brief visit} above. For this, I take it, is likely if in this point too the likeness of our image holds.

Big Bill:
Yes, it is likely.

Sober man: And again, do you think it at all strange, said I, if a man returning from divine contemplations to the petty miseries of men cuts a sorry figure and appears most ridiculous, if, while still blinking through the gloom, and before he has become sufficiently accustomed to the environing darkness, he is compelled in courtrooms or elsewhere to contend about the shadows of justice or the images that cast the shadows and to wrangle in debate about the notions of these things in the minds of those who have never seen justice itself ?

Big Bill: It would be by no means strange, he said.

Sober-man: But a sensible man, I said, would remember that there are two distinct disturbances of the eyes arising from two causes, according as the shift is from light to darkness or from darkness to light, and, believing that the same thing happens to the soul too, whenever he saw a soul perturbed and unable to discern something, he would not laugh unthinkingly, but would observe whether coming from a brighter life its vision was obscured by the unfamiliar darkness, or whether the passage from the deeper dark of ignorance into a more luminous world and the greater brightness had dazzled its vision. And so he would deem the one happy in its experience and way of life and pity the other, and if it pleased him to laugh at it, his laughter would be less laughable than that at the expense of the soul that had come down from the light above.

Big Bill:
That is a very fair statement, he said.

End of Part 6
Soberman

Part 7

Sober-man: Then, if this is true, our view of these matters must be this, that education is not in reality what some people proclaim it to be in their professions. What they aver allege is that they can put true knowledge into a soul that does not possess it, as if they were inserting vision into blind eyes.
Big Bill
They do indeed, he said.

Sober- man: But our present argument indicates, said I, that the true analogy for this indwelling power in the soul and the instrument whereby each of us apprehends is that of an eye that could not be converted to the light from the darkness except by turning the whole body. Even so this organ of knowledge must be turned around from the world of becoming together with the entire soul, like the scene-shifting periactus in the theater, until the soul is able to endure the contemplation of essence and the brightest region of being. And this, we say, is the good, do we not?

Sober-man: Of this very thing, then, I said, there might be an art, an art of the speediest and most effective shifting or conversion of the soul, not an art of producing vision in it, but on the assumption that it possesses vision but does not rightly direct it and does not look where it should, an art of bringing this about.
Big Bill: Yes, that seems likely, he said.

Sober man: Then the other so-called goodness of the soul does seem akin to those of the body.
For it is true that where they do not pre-exist, they are afterward created by habit and practice.

Sober man: But the excellence of thought, it seems, is certainly of a more divine quality, a thing that never loses its potency, but, according to the direction of its conversion, becomes useful and beneficent, or, again, useless and harmful.

Sober man: Have you never observed in those who are popularly spoken of as bad, but smart men how keen is the vision of the little soul, how quick it is to discern the things that interest it, a proof that it is not a poor vision which it has, but one forcibly enlisted in the service of evil, so that the sharper its sight the more mischief it accomplishes?

Big Bills:I certainly have, he said.

End of part7……
Sober-man:

Part 8
Sober man: Observe then, said I, that this part of such a soul, if it had been hammered from childhood, and had thus been struck free of the leaden weights, so to speak, of our birth and becoming, which attaching themselves to it by food and similar pleasures and gluttonies turn downward the vision of the soul—if, I say, freed from these, it had suffered a conversion toward the things that are real and true, that same faculty of the same men would have been most keen in its vision of the higher things, just as it is for the things toward which it is now turned.
Big Bill: It is likely.

Sober man: Well. Then, said I, is not this also likely and a necessary consequence of what has been said, that neither could men who are uneducated and inexperienced in truth ever adequately preside over a state, nor could those who had been permitted to linger on to the end in the pursuit of culture—the one because they have no single aim and purpose in life to which all their actions, public and private, must be directed, and the others, because they will not voluntarily engage in action, believing that while still living they have been transported to the Islands of the Blessed?
Big Bills: True, he said.

Sober man: It is the duty of us, the founders, then, said I, to compel the best natures to attain the knowledge which we pronounced the greatest, and to win to the vision of the good, to scale that ascent, and when they have reached the heights and taken an adequate view, we must not allow what is now permitted.
Big Bill: What is that?

Sober man: That they should linger there, I said, and refuse to go down again among those bondsmen and share their labors and honors, whether they are of less or of greater worth.
Big Bill: Do you mean to say that we must do them this wrong, and compel them to live an inferior life when the better is in their power?

Sober man: You have again forgotten, my friend, said I, that the law is not concerned with the special happiness of any class in the state, but is trying to produce this condition in the city as a whole, harmonizing and adapting the citizens to one another by persuasion and compulsion, and requiring them to impart to one another any benefit which they are severally able to bestow upon the community, and that it itself creates such men in the state, not that it may allow each to take what course pleases him, but with a view to using them for the binding together of the commonwealth.
Big Bill: True, I did forget it.

End of Part 8
Soberman