The following financial information is taken from the 2011 Form 990 for The General Service Board of Alcoholics Anonymous, Inc. (GSB) The GSB was incorporated as a New York nonprofit on 7/6/43. The original name was The Alcoholic Foundation, Inc. The name of The Alcoholic Foundation, Inc. was changed to the current name on 12/8/1954.
******************************************************
From the 2011 tax return:
Cash checking____________________________ $816,417
Cash savings_____________________________9,603,866
Marketable securities____________________ 8,622,472
Total cash & securities_________________ $19,042,755
Less payable to AAGV___________________($1,828,500)
Less post-retirement benefits___________ (5,524,123)
Less pension benefits payable__________(10,293,757)
Amount left over for helping alcoholics__$1,396,375
*******************************************************
So out of total cash & marketable securities at 12/31/11 of $19,042,755, AANY needs to pay $17,646,380 to itself, the employee's retirement health benefits and pay the employee's retirement pensions so they can live in Key West, FLorida.
Would you say AANY is benefitting the fellowship or the retirement of the AANY executives?
Comments
Pennywise
Sun, 01/06/2013 - 16:44
Permalink
Easily the latter. I fail to
Easily the latter. I fail to see what the GSB does of substance besides make themselves money. Clancy has more influence by far at determining how groups will operate.
"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid."
dave
Sun, 01/06/2013 - 16:50
Permalink
I know several aa's who got sober in
the original pacific group and now distance themselves from it. They found it cultish.
Pennywise
Sun, 01/06/2013 - 16:54
Permalink
Yet they are still under
Yet they are still under Clancy's thumb, aren't they? They probably don't realize it, though.
"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid."
JR Harris
Sun, 01/06/2013 - 17:40
Permalink
The Pacific Group Spawned the Midtown Group
The Pacific Group Spawned the Midtown Group in Washington DC AA General Service Area 13 that was also exposed as a cult that preyed on young women (minors) by the Marc Fisher in the Washington Post in 2007. The AA's in there got sober also, they also got sexually molested and were kicked out of most churches. They disbanded and migrated to New jersey, Florida and California and still exist in some form today. I have wrote about it quite a few times. Here is two of them on this site:
13 Stepping, Mike Q, Clancy I, Sponsorship Groups and the legacy of Midtown
http://orange-papers.org/forum/node/952
How many people blame the teenage victims of the AA Midtown Group of Washington DC in 2007?
http://orange-papers.org/forum/node/3065
"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.
dave
Sun, 01/06/2013 - 16:47
Permalink
They keep about a year and a half of the last year's
total operating expenses as a prudent reserve. If the reserve gets too high literature prices go down. If the projected reserve dwindles literature prices go up. Thats why big book price varies over the years.
massive
Mon, 01/07/2013 - 23:19
Permalink
dave
dave
the facts are that AA gets half of its income from selling books to NON AA members. Like . Rehabs and prisons. SO half of the $12,000,000 is $6,000,000 come from non AA members, Really affiliations like Betty Ford and the many famous "AA" Affiliated treatment Centers that use a made up religion based on no science to hurt, not help a person in dire straits and pain from alcohol and drug overuse issues.
Massive
dave
Mon, 01/07/2013 - 23:36
Permalink
I thought the largest purchaser of AA literature
has been Hazelden. They would not account for the entire $6,000,000 since AA members buy literature also. I have always thought when I purchased aa literature I was supporting aa. AA is supposed to be fully self supporting declining outside contributions, but this is not totally true in my opinion because non AA's buy so much of the literature and those literature profits go to fund AA services.
AA can not discriminate with literature sales, it has to sell to everyone because aa is a non profit entity. That is what I have been told.
dave
Mon, 01/07/2013 - 23:58
Permalink
Massive
This is my second response. I get a little lost with the location of comments. In the past if AA had 12,000,000 in total operating expenses, roughly 6,000,000 would come from aa member contributions and the other 6,000,000 would come from literature profits. I know for some years it has been roughly 50-50. I dont know what it is today.
Pennywise
Sun, 01/06/2013 - 16:52
Permalink
And none of that really
And none of that really matters, does it? And when does the reserve EVER get too high? They always say they need money.
"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid."
dave
Sun, 01/06/2013 - 17:03
Permalink
The precicted reserve has gotten too high in the past
and the cost of the big book went down for a while. JR could probably find the history of this.
live_free_or_die
Sun, 01/06/2013 - 17:10
Permalink
So dave
Out of cash of roughly $19,000,000 almost $18,000,000 is going to go to pay the lavish retirements of the executive class of AANY.
What say you dave?
AA'ers ALWAYS say nobody makes money off AA. Apparently that is another AA lie!
Alcoholics Anonymous: MyNotGodHasItCovered®
http://www.expaa.org/
http://bereanresearch.com/
http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/
NOT AA:
Rational Recovery, SOS, HAMS
http://alcoholabusesolutions.com/
Pennywise
Sun, 01/06/2013 - 17:18
Permalink
Tell this to the
Tell this to the average stepper and he won't care. He'll just say those people deserve to be compensated for their services, just like any other job.
"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid."
dave
Sun, 01/06/2013 - 17:18
Permalink
I am not familiar with retirement plans. Many people
make good money working for aa. Several years ago I know that at least $100,000 but I think it was about $300,000 was paid out to maintain obligations for retires health care.
live_free_or_die
Sun, 01/06/2013 - 17:27
Permalink
dave, this will clear up most questions on retirement plans
Summary of Statement No. 106
Employers' Accounting for Postretirement Benefits Other Than Pensions (Issued 12/90)
Summary
This Statement establishes accounting standards for employers' accounting for postretirement benefits other than pensions (hereinafter referred to as postretirement benefits). Although it applies to all forms of postretirement benefits, this Statement focuses principally on postretirement health care benefits. It will significantly change the prevalent current practice of accounting for postretirement benefits on a pay-as-you-go (cash) basis by requiring accrual, during the years that the employee renders the necessary service, of the expected cost of providing those benefits to an employee and the employee's beneficiaries and covered dependents.
The Board's conclusions in this Statement result from the view that a defined postretirement benefit plan sets forth the terms of an exchange between the employer and the employee. In exchange for the current services provided by the employee, the employer promises to provide, in addition to current wages and other benefits, health and other welfare benefits after the employee retires. It follows from that view that postretirement benefits are not gratuities but are part of an employee's compensation for services rendered. Since payment is deferred, the benefits are a type of deferred compensation. The employer's obligation for that compensation is incurred as employees render the services necessary to earn their postretirement benefits.
The ability to measure the obligation for postretirement health care benefits and the recognition of that obligation have been the subject of controversy. The Board believes that measurement of the obligation and accrual of the cost based on best estimates are superior to implying, by a failure to accrue, that no obligation exists prior to the payment of benefits. The Board believes that failure to recognize an obligation prior to its payment impairs the usefulness and integrity of the employer's financial statements.
The Board's objectives in issuing this Statement are to improve employers' financial reporting for postretirement benefits in the following manner:
a. To enhance the relevance and representational faithfulness of the employer's reported results of operations by recognizing net periodic postretirement benefit cost as employees render the services necessary to earn their postretirement benefits
b. To enhance the relevance and representational faithfulness of the employer's statement of financial position by including a measure of the obligation to provide postretirement benefits based on a mutual understanding between the employer and its employees of the terms of the underlying plan
c. To enhance the ability of users of the employer's financial statements to understand the extent and effects of the employer's undertaking to provide postretirement benefits to its employees by disclosing relevant information about the obligation and cost of the postretirement benefit plan and how those amounts are measured
d. To improve the understandability and comparability of amounts reported by requiring employers with similar plans to use the same method to measure their accumulated postretirement benefit obligations and the related costs of the postretirement benefits.
Similarity to Pension Accounting
The provisions of this Statement are similar, in many respects, to those in FASB Statements No. 87, Employers' Accounting for Pensions, and No. 88, Employers' Accounting for Settlements and Curtailments of Defined Benefit Pension Plans and for Termination Benefits. To the extent the promise to provide pension benefits and the promise to provide postretirement benefits are similar, the provisions of this Statement are similar to those prescribed by Statements 87 and 88; different accounting treatment is prescribed only when the Board has concluded that there is a compelling reason for different treatment. Appendix B identifies the major similarities and differences between this Statement and employers' accounting for pensions.
Basic Tenets
This Statement relies on a basic premise of generally accepted accounting principles that accrual accounting provides more relevant and useful information than does cash basis accounting. The importance of information about cash flows or the funding of the postretirement benefit plan is not ignored. Amounts funded or paid are given accounting recognition as uses of cash, but the Board believes that information about cash flows alone is insufficient. Accrual accounting goes beyond cash transactions and attempts to recognize the financial effects of noncash transactions and events as they occur. Recognition and measurement of the accrued obligation to provide postretirement benefits will provide users of financial statements with the opportunity to assess the financial consequences of employers' compensation decisions.
In applying accrual accounting to postretirement benefits, this Statement adopts three fundamental aspects of pension accounting: delayed recognition of certain events, reporting net cost, and offsetting liabilities and related assets.
Delayed recognition means that certain changes in the obligation for postretirement benefits, including those changes arising as a result of a plan initiation or amendment, and certain changes in the value of plan assets set aside to meet that obligation are not recognized as they occur. Rather, those changes are recognized systematically over future periods. All changes in the obligation and plan assets ultimately are recognized unless they are first reduced by other changes. The changes that have been identified and quantified but not yet recognized in the employer's financial statements as components of net periodic postretirement benefit cost and as a liability or asset are disclosed.
Net cost means that the recognized consequences of events and transactions affecting a postretirement benefit plan are reported as a single amount in the employer's financial statements. That single amount includes at least three types of events or transactions that might otherwise be reported separately. Those events or transactions-exchanging a promise of deferred compensation in the form of postretirement benefits for employee service, the interest cost arising from the passage of time until those benefits are paid, and the returns from the investment of plan assets-are disclosed separately as components of net periodic postretirement benefit cost.
Offsetting means that plan assets restricted for the payment of postretirement benefits offset the accumulated postretirement benefit obligation in determining amounts recognized in the employer's statement of financial position and that the return on those plan assets offsets postretirement benefit cost in the employer's statement of income. That offsetting is reflected even though the obligation has not been settled, the investment of the plan assets may be largely controlled by the employer, and substantial risks and rewards associated with both the obligation and the plan assets are borne by the employer.
Recognition and Measurement
The Board is sensitive to concerns about the reliability of measurements of the postretirement health care benefit obligation. The Board recognizes that limited historical data about per capita claims costs are available and that actuarial practice in this area is still developing. The Board has taken those factors into consideration in its decisions to delay the effective date for this Statement, to emphasize disclosure, and to permit employers to phase in recognition of the transition obligation in their statements of financial position. However, the Board believes that those factors are insufficient reason not to use accrual accounting for postretirement benefits in financial reporting. With increased experience, the reliability of measures of the obligation and cost should improve.
An objective of this Statement is that the accounting reflect the terms of the exchange transaction that takes place between an employer that provides postretirement benefits and the employees who render services in exchange for those benefits. Generally the extant written plan provides the best evidence of that exchange transaction. However, in some situations, an employer's cost-sharing policy, as evidenced by past practice or by communication of intended changes to a plan's cost-sharing provisions, or a past practice of regular increases in certain monetary benefits may indicate that the substantive plan-the plan as understood by the parties to the exchange transaction-differs from the extant written plan. The substantive plan is the basis for the accounting.
This Statement requires that an employer's obligation for postretirement benefits expected to be provided to or for an employee be fully accrued by the date that employee attains full eligibility for all of the benefits expected to be received by that employee, any beneficiaries, and covered dependents (the full eligibility date), even if the employee is expected to render additional service beyond that date. That accounting reflects the fact that at the full eligibility date the employee has provided all of the service necessary to earn the right to receive all of the benefits that employee is expected to receive under the plan.
The beginning of the attribution (accrual) period is the employee's date of hire unless the plan only grants credit for service from a later date, in which case benefits are generally attributed from the beginning of that credited service period. An equal amount of the expected postretirement benefit obligation is attributed to each year of service in the attribution period unless the plan attributes a disproportionate share of the expected benefits to employees' early years of service. The Board concluded that, like accounting for other deferred compensation agreements, accounting for postretirement benefits should reflect the explicit or implicit contract between the employer and its employees.
Single Method
The Board believes that understandability, comparability, and usefulness of financial information are improved by narrowing the use of alternative accounting methods that do not reflect different facts and circumstances. The Board has been unable to identify circumstances that would make it appropriate for different employers to use fundamentally different accounting methods or measurement techniques for similar postretirement benefit plans or for a single employer to use fundamentally different methods or measurement techniques for different plans. As a result, a single method is prescribed for measuring and recognizing an employer's accumulated postretirement benefit obligation.
Amendment to Opinion 12
An employer's practice of providing postretirement benefits to selected employees under individual contracts, with specific terms determined on an individual-by-individual basis, does not constitute a postretirement benefit plan under this Statement. This Statement amends APB Opinion No. 12, Omnibus Opinion-1967, to explicitly require that an employer's obligation under deferred compensation contracts be accrued following the terms of the individual contract over the required service periods to the date the employee is fully eligible for the benefits.
Transition
Unlike the effects of most other accounting changes, a transition obligation for postretirement benefits generally reflects, to a considerable extent, the failure to accrue the accumulated postretirement benefit obligation in earlier periods as it arose rather than the effects of a change from one acceptable accrual method of accounting to another. The Board believes that accounting for transition from one method of accounting to another is a practical matter and that a major objective of that accounting is to minimize the cost and mitigate the disruption to the extent possible without unduly compromising the ability of financial statements to provide useful information.
This Statement measures the transition obligation as the unfunded and unrecognized accumulated postretirement benefit obligation for all plan participants. Two options are provided for recognizing that transition obligation. An employer can choose to immediately recognize the transition obligation as the effect of an accounting change, subject to certain limitations. Alternatively, an employer can choose to recognize the transition obligation in the statement of financial position and statement of income on a delayed basis over the plan participants' future service periods, with disclosure of the unrecognized amount. However, that delayed recognition cannot result in less rapid recognition than accounting for the transition obligation on a pay-as-you-go basis.
Effective Dates
This Statement generally is effective for fiscal years beginning after December 15, 1992, except that the application of this Statement to plans outside the United States and certain small, nonpublic employers is delayed to fiscal years beginning after December 15, 1994. The amendment of Opinion 12 is effective for fiscal years beginning after March 15, 1991.
* * *
The Board appreciates the contributions of the many people and organizations that assisted the Board in its research on this project.
Alcoholics Anonymous: MyNotGodHasItCovered®
http://www.expaa.org/
http://bereanresearch.com/
http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/
NOT AA:
Rational Recovery, SOS, HAMS
http://alcoholabusesolutions.com/
massive
Mon, 01/07/2013 - 23:21
Permalink
Yea so 90 % of the money goes
Yea so 90 % of the money goes to salaries. And how do they help alcoholics?
How do these people who voted to not make AA safer from sex offenders sleep at night?
Massive
JR Harris
Sun, 01/06/2013 - 16:54
Permalink
WOW - Amount left over for helping alcoholics__$1,396,375
WOW - Amount left over for helping alcoholics__$1,396,375. That means that all of that money that the Intergroups kick up to AA GSB/GSO less than a dollar gets spent on helping them (If you believe the BS about them being 2 Million strong with no proof and no way to verify it). So 75% of the money going to AA NY goes to pay for pension benefits?
It would appear that AA NY only exists to pay for the retirement of a few key top employees with very little left over.......
"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.
dave
Sun, 01/06/2013 - 17:00
Permalink
Intergroups as a rule DO not send money to new york.
Intergroups are responsible to the groups they serve which are the local aa meetings. AA meetings send money to new york.
JR Harris
Sun, 01/06/2013 - 17:22
Permalink
Dave, Dave, Dave.... You don't know the cult of AA very well
Dave, Dave, Dave.... You don't know the cult of AA very well. According to the Pamphlet MG-15 A.A. Guidelines - Finance from the Interchurch Center (http://www.aa.org/en_pdfs/mg-15_finance.pdf) that provides "suggestions" of how much to give them (of course they say you can give them anything you want conveniently):
10% to District
10% to Area Committee
30% to GSO
50% to Intergroup or Central Office
I know, I know your coven doesn't do it. Remember that this cult is Global and you can't cover all of them. I have investigated hundreds of Integroups that provide financial on the web and YES they do give to AA NY.
This DENIAL thing is getting pretty bad. Have you finished reading the AA debating techniques yet?
"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.
dave
Sun, 01/06/2013 - 17:36
Permalink
I would like to see documentation on how much intergroups
give to ny. I dont know why they would unless they had a surplus. That phamplet is for meetings. Intergroups are responsible to the local groups in their area and sending too much to NY would be unethical in my opinion.
JR Harris
Sun, 01/06/2013 - 17:51
Permalink
Well that would be in the secret archives at the Interchurch
Well that would be in the secret archives at the Interchurch center that only trusted Alcoholics and the trusted non-Alcoholics taking all of the profits in salary and pension funds can see. The Tax forms are aggregates an do not break it down to that level of granularity. I see that you have already seen this one where you can give $5,000 if your dead of $3,000 a year if alive The documentation for it is in the original post, it is a PDF file directly from the Interchurch Center (I wonder how many people realize that the money goes to pay salaries and pension funds?):
Remember Alcoholics Anonymous on Christmas 2012 - You can give upto $3000 alive or $5000 if you're dead
http://orange-papers.org/forum/node/2971
Don't forget the Birthday fund where AA NY is begging you to send them $1 for every year that you are sober in AA to pay for their salaries and pensions.
"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.
dave
Sun, 01/06/2013 - 18:01
Permalink
That info could be in the final conference report,
but I'm not sure. An aa member used to be able to make an appointment with the general service office and get a full copy of the books to study in the office and you could take as long as you wanted to look at them. I don't know if this is still the case.
JR Harris
Sun, 01/06/2013 - 18:08
Permalink
Anyone can be an AA member, how do you prove you are one?
Anyone can be an AA member, how do you prove you are one? I have asked this many times before and no seems to have an answer on how to prove you are a member of a secret anonymous society that takes no names (except on the Tax Forms that will be their downfall). There is no special handshake, tattoo, coin, license, Big Book or anything to prove you are an AA member. Why did you have to put in that an AA member can see it? What about someone that isn't a real alcoholic like the non-Alcoholic class "A" Chairman of the GSO and President of AAWS? They aren't alcoholics so shouldn't be considered members.
"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.
dave
Sun, 01/06/2013 - 20:33
Permalink
You a member if you say you are one.
I put that any aa member can see it because I think that may be the case. I'm not sure if non members get to see it. That is the policy I thought, but I may be wrong.
JR Harris
Sun, 01/06/2013 - 20:47
Permalink
Here is the complete information for accessing the GSO archives
Here is the complete information for accessing the GSO archives. Like I said, I'm not a new comer on this and have already researched it.
How to gain access to the GSO Archives of Alcoholics Anonymous (AA) at the Interchuch Center on 475 Riverside Drive, New York
Submitted by JR Harris on Thu, 10/18/2012 - 11:39
http://orange-papers.org/forum/node/2792
"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.
FrybreadSam (not verified)
Sun, 01/06/2013 - 21:01
Permalink
.
.
FrybreadSam (not verified)
Sun, 01/06/2013 - 21:04
Permalink
.
.
FrybreadSam (not verified)
Sun, 01/06/2013 - 20:58
Permalink
Aren't these percentages from
Aren't these percentages from the groups, not IG
massive
Mon, 01/07/2013 - 23:28
Permalink
Dave you seem nice but you
Dave you seem nice but you have blinders still on. That is the AA rhetoric spouted. GO and listen to some of my radio shows www.blogtalkradio.com/saferecovery and click on the ones about the AA literature.
Especially Chapter 5.
You mean well.
Massive
JR Harris
Sun, 01/06/2013 - 17:02
Permalink
I think we should contact the DCMs and have them vote on
I think we should contact the DCMs and have them vote on this garbage at the next big Pow Wow. The fact that 75% of the profit from AA NY goes to pay for the pensions of a few top people in AA is inexcusable. The next time I hear the AA slogan lie of "no one ever made a dime off AA" I'm going to let them have it.
Thanks Dave for getting us to research this deeper. Your help is extremely welcome. A lot of this stuff was in the back of my head renting space, but it was dormant so I left it there. Now that I see the disease of Alcoholics Anonymous doing pushups in the parking lot waiting for newcomers, I'm going to take action. Hmmm..... let me see where can I put this information Globally for the most impact......
"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.
FrybreadSam (not verified)
Sun, 01/06/2013 - 21:10
Permalink
But there have always been
But there have always been employees. Why would stuff like this rent space in your head?
causeandeffect
Mon, 01/07/2013 - 14:53
Permalink
There's a thought-stopping
There's a thought-stopping slogan if there ever was one, clara. It's not that people are making a living; nobody would deny somebody's right to do that. It's that they are making obscene amounts of money to do next to nothing while AA members croon "And nobody ever makes a dime off of AA." And that's just downright dishonest.
Troll free AA critical forum
http://www.expaa.org/
"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it." ~ Neil deGrasse Tyson
dave
Mon, 01/07/2013 - 18:30
Permalink
If you look at the 2011 aaws
If you look at the 2011 aaws tax return an explanation of how the salaries of top paid employees are determined.
JR Harris
Mon, 01/07/2013 - 18:42
Permalink
Hey Dave, glad you made it back. I was worried about you
You do realize that you didn't end up on the Orange Papers by accident, don't you? How have things been? Have you had a chance to read the "Propaganda and Debating" (http://orange-papers.org/orange-propaganda.html) techniques of cults yet? You know the first step is admitting that you are in a cult and denial is a very strong influence causing people not to seek help?
Anyway, we're glad you're back to address your problems. Keep coming back. We'll love you until you love yourself. You haven't been talking to newcomers in the parking lot have you? Parking lots outside of AA meetings are where all of the brainwashing happens. I know it's hard, but try and stay away from them.
"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.
dave
Mon, 01/07/2013 - 18:48
Permalink
Dont worry. With your comments "I take what I can and leave
the rest" lol. In digging a little deeper (not much) it sounds like intergroups may give more to the general fund than I thought. I cant find any of my old final conference reports yet. I may have tossed them.
JR Harris
Mon, 01/07/2013 - 19:01
Permalink
No problem Dave, when people are brainwashed by a cult they
No problem Dave, when people are brainwashed by a cult they often have "selective memory" and forget stuff. The biggest problem is when someone thinks they are too smart to be in a cult and they know everything about the cult that has brainwashed them. You didn't end up on the Orange Papers by accident you know? Unfortunately there is this little thing called EGO where many AA members come to the Orange Papers and believe that they know more than the people here. It's OK, EGO is a good thing, but you have to realize it when faced with more verifiable facts then AA slogans.
Keep coming back!
"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.
dave
Mon, 01/07/2013 - 19:21
Permalink
I believe most, if not all of the people on this forum are
highly intelligent.
JR Harris
Mon, 01/07/2013 - 19:38
Permalink
When the light bulb goes off in your head and you see that
When the light bulb goes off in your head and you see that the cult of Alcoholics Anonymous is a disease that is very dangerous it is quite an eye opener. Rarely have we seen a person who really tried to identify what a cult is have failed. Millions of people have been saved from the cult of Alcoholics Anonymous as can be seen by the 95% that are too smart for the program of an adulterous con man named Bill Wilson and the Recovery Industry Cartel (headed by Hazelden) who want to make people hit bottom following the Jellinek Curve (who later recanted it and said it was made by faulty data provided by AA) so they can charge around a $1000 a day to learn how to chant the 12 Steps and 12 Traditions that Bill Wilson stole from other people so he could live a life of luxury.
You too can be saved. It just takes being rigorously honest with yourself that you have been conned into a dangerous religious cult that brainwashes people into a lifelong disease and makes them go looking for prospects to feed it and pay non-alcoholics high up in the organization more money and perks then any of the other members.
"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.
FrybreadSam (not verified)
Mon, 01/07/2013 - 19:18
Permalink
It's easy to do when you
It's easy to do when you simply recognize the anger first.
JR Harris
Mon, 01/07/2013 - 19:43
Permalink
The "anger card" is a slogan based defense of the cult of AA
The "anger card" is a slogan based defense of the cult of Alcoholics Anonymous. People have a right to be angry when they realize that they have been lied too by a dangerous religious cult that causes them to go out and search for prospects to feed it. Of course some of the AA members aren't smart enough to con people into believing the AA slogan lies like "it's Spiritual, not Religious" so they don't prospect hunt. They simply don't have the intelligence to do so.
"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.
FrybreadSam (not verified)
Tue, 01/08/2013 - 07:45
Permalink
I am talking about your anger
I am talking about your anger, JR. You never were a member of AA, and you use the same tactics on others you seem to fault AA for. Look at how you spent the last day speaking to Dave, who is just trying to explain to you what he knows and how he came to know it. You really come off as one of the angriest and self rightous of people. I don't really care who buys AA literature. I have seen it all over the place, in libraries, dr offices, hotel lobbies. If Hazelden is buying it, I don't care. Perhaps since it is a 12 step program, it claims membership. The alternatives also have publishing houses and their materials are used in jails and their meetings that are "client" only.
JR Harris
Tue, 01/08/2013 - 07:58
Permalink
Come on Fry, I understand your pain at being brainwashed by
Come on Fry, I understand your pain at being brainwashed by a religious cult. You are helping Dave make up his mind if he is brainwashed or not. Dave isn't a lowly coffee maker that spouts AA slogan lies or tries to pull the "you're not an Alcoholic" BS of lowly coffee makers and greeters at AA meetings. He has gone past that point and is way above it. He knows more about AA than you do and has more time.
Why do you keep trying the AA Slogan lies that Dave claims are only made by low level members of the cult of Alcoholics Anonymous?
"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.
FrybreadSam (not verified)
Tue, 01/08/2013 - 10:10
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I am not attempting to help
I am not attempting to help Dave in anything, just questioning how childish you become when someone opposes you. You started it on Penny last week over his belief that the Karla Brada case might .it go as you desperately wish. Penny can demonstrate his points and never becomes this whiney mess known as JR. It's rather astonishing that you would then try to dictate a debating style. Seems unnecessary.
JR Harris
Tue, 01/08/2013 - 10:18
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Gee, do you always talk for other people? Or do you just take
Gee, do you always talk for other people? Or do you just take their inventory against the AA slogan lie saying you shouldn't? You're not following a very good AA brainwashed program. But hey, you know what they say "people can be too smart for the program." You aren't still in the program are you?
"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.
causeandeffect
Tue, 01/08/2013 - 10:34
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Yes, she's still is in the
Yes, she's still is in the program, JR. She now even holds her own meetings in her barn. I guess it means she can now keep the drug addicts from being able to share during meetings.
Troll free AA critical forum
http://www.expaa.org/
"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it." ~ Neil deGrasse Tyson
FrybreadSam (not verified)
Tue, 01/08/2013 - 12:27
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I am in the program for
I am in the program for medical compliance, JR. I can give an opinion regardless. Thank you for making my point.
btnben
Tue, 01/08/2013 - 16:11
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Stop lying Clara...lol
"medical compliance"...lol WTF does that mean. You are a disgrace to your cult - pretending to be someone you're not...lol. You WILL drink (6 beers...lol) again if you keep on lying...lol. Are you drinking now?
God damn it, get me a whiskey
Bill W, Deathbed
http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc
causeandeffect
Tue, 01/08/2013 - 19:49
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Do you have to attend AA to
Do you have to attend AA to comply with the medical marijuana program, clara? Does your husband know you went to the movies with a bunch of men? Or was he there?
Troll free AA critical forum
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"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it." ~ Neil deGrasse Tyson
dave
Tue, 01/08/2013 - 17:47
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to fry and jr
I dont believe I opposed him. I did start to get irritated though.
massive
Mon, 01/07/2013 - 23:30
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Dave your kidding right?
Dave your kidding right? Comparing AA an its structure and sexual predation to The Red Cross, or the Boy Scouts of America/
Massive
dave
Tue, 01/08/2013 - 00:12
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To massive:
How did I do that?
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