A special thanks... and goodbye

Submitted by disclosure on Mon, 08/27/2012 - 13:01

A special thanks... and goodbye

Comments

becket's picture

becket

Mon, 08/27/2012 - 13:38

"Promising young people lose years of their lives and vivid opportunities of life experience and growth."

"Promising young people"?? Not only is that discriminatory on the face of it, as if middle-aged and senior adults are irrelevant, but the claim that a person loses years of his life and vivid opportunities by following a dictate that is not part of the program of Alcoholics Anonymous is a false indictment.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

disclosure

Mon, 08/27/2012 - 13:57

Becket, the practice of telling people not to make changes in the first year happens at all the meetings I have gone to. How can it not be part of the program since the groups are autonomous? Also, while the post does show bias toward young people with potentially more to loose than the old or middle aged, it does not exclude them.
Your arguments are false and misleading from my perspective in much the same fashion my arguments are false and misleading to you.
I accept your criticism as truthful from your perspective; it still does not change my opinion concerning my experience in AA.

Morgan's picture

Morgan

Mon, 08/27/2012 - 20:22

"...and those unpromising middle aged and completely fucked old coots."

becket's picture

becket

Mon, 08/27/2012 - 22:05

Please provide the page in the Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous where it specifically tells members not to make any changes within the first year.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

NoAAUK's picture

NoAAUK

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 01:24

"Rarely have we seen a person fail who has thourghly followed our path" BB Page 58 Cult lie number one, do you really want me to go on?

Rarely have we seen who fail? Can wilson be more specific? Surely he doesn't include recently released asylum inmate Morgan as one of his 'non' failures?

http://www.morerevealed.com/mr/brief-aa-history.html

Since when has the BB been the sole stepper cult indoctrination manual? The stepper cult has constantly used other sources of either written or verbal lying cult indoctrination. The 12 & 12 springs immediately to mind, but there are other sources of contradictory indoctrination, designed to keep groupers both new and old in a perpetual state of mental unbalance and thus in a constant form of cult indoctrination readiness

No 'whatever' for the first year is just standard stepper cult isolation and indoctrination of potential new recruits to the cult. It is normal in ALL stepper cult meetings, except, of course, those AA meetings attended by the stepper cult advocates that visit this forum Ha! Ha! Ha!

......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11

Morgan's picture

Morgan

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 02:41

“[S]omebody sounded a note of caution: What if the lately released asylum inmate Morgan should be drunk the day of the broadcast! Hard experience told us this was a real possibility. How could such a calamity be averted?"

NoAAUK's picture

NoAAUK

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 04:38

Got it wrong again as I've admitted elsewhere on the blog. Sorry mate, hope we can start again.

Even got deeply involved with the stepper cult at one time

......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11

Morgan's picture

Morgan

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 04:46

I saw the story of "Morgan" and thought it was in reference to me. lol.

becket's picture

becket

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 03:35

I am not going to defend the fabricated, mutilated, revamped, modified, bastardized interpretations of the program of AA here. Everything you offer is faulty construal of the original program. What you report is grossly unfortunate misconception of AA. The 12 & 12 appeared long after the Big Book. And since there is nothing new under the sun, of course the Big Book had its influences. But the program itself appears within the Big Book - that is the guide. And nowhere in that book does it say "No new relationships the first year" or "ninety meetings in ninety days" or any of that other treatmentese bullshit.

What you are referring to is what AA apparently has become, not what it was intended to be, not what it has been as recently as 1980 when I sobered up. Change does occur over eighty years, even if it is only lateral movement.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

NoAAUK's picture

NoAAUK

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 04:41

So does God remove your shortcomings or not......BB says yes........somewhere

......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11

becket's picture

becket

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 04:54

It is still dark here and I'm up all night. I don't want to get into a philosophical question about God right now. I will say that when I was in AA and working the steps as written and not as some dipshit told me to, I relied on a belief in a higher power, which was not a doorknob, for courage and tenacity. I was able to navigate all 12 steps, and afterward, when I found little useful in AA, I left.

I do lead an examined life. I am a human being with frailties. I address them as best I can. No one is completely free of weaknesses, limitations, imperfections. I believe the steps gave me an organized way of evaluating that which does not serve me. Then I can make whatever effort I choose to either eliminate those things or modify them. In doing so, if I take the high road and try to consider the greater benefit, one could say I am thinking in terms of goodness. My higher power is, among other things, goodness. When I choose goodness I am the spirit manifest.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

Bucket123

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 05:38

Do the steps again, when you are ready to make amends to me I will be here.

becket's picture

becket

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 16:59

I owe you nothing, Bucket.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

Bucket123

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 17:00

Are you sure???

becket's picture

becket

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 17:07

Yes.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

NoAAUK's picture

NoAAUK

Fri, 08/31/2012 - 00:57

So in a nutshell, AA's steps DO NOT work

......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11

becket's picture

becket

Fri, 08/31/2012 - 01:40

As long as you own that particular nutshell, I have not problem with it. Just don't try to force ownership on me.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

NoAAUK's picture

NoAAUK

Sat, 09/01/2012 - 02:31

So does God remove your shortcomings if you ask him to? How long for? Does God give you daily work orders? Does insulting Bucket123 and JR and others constitute part of those God given work orders? Does God in fact hate Bucket123 and JR and others?

Does God hate me?

......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11

NoAAUK's picture

NoAAUK

Sat, 09/01/2012 - 02:24

Did you do Step 12, recruit for the stepper cult?

......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11

Ironic's picture

Ironic

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 07:28

The irony of this bucket made me laugh out loud. The only people who ever quote the Big Book here are anti-AAs..because the pro-AAers we have are the ones switching things around. That's why they can't back up their claims with cult literature

Clara's picture

Clara

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 16:28

I thought it was pretty funny too as we went to the literature and discovered the Holy Hill group WASN'T breaking bad when it didn't send money to Intergroup as membership is voluntary, and when you go to the literature, nowhere does it say to fling your meds away... In fact, quite the opposite.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

becket's picture

becket

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 17:02

I know the Big Book pretty well, Ironic. I also know manipulation of content and intent when I see it. There is a profound dishonesty among you people here when it comes to interpreting what you quote. There's nothing to be done about that. I haven't switched around a goddamn thing. And why would anyone back up a claim with "cult literature" - so you can laugh out loud some more?

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

Bucket123

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 17:04

Ooooo someone got on your last nerve there bucket 1 pmsl

becket's picture

becket

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 17:08

Who, Ironic got on my last nerve? Hardly. She hasn't got the smarts.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

Bucket123

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 17:12

Thourough honesty is what the programme requires.

becket's picture

becket

Fri, 08/31/2012 - 01:37

Please point out the dishonesty.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

Ironic's picture

Ironic

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 07:28

The irony of this bucket statement made me laugh out loud. The only people who ever quote the Big Book here are anti-AAs..because the pro-AAers we have are the ones switching things around. That's why they can't back up their claims with cult literature

becket's picture

becket

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 04:03

"Becket, the practice of telling people not to make changes in the first year happens at all the meetings I have gone to. How can it not be part of the program since the groups are autonomous?"

This is no more part of the program of Alcoholic Anonymous than telling seniors not to take their blood pressure medications. Nowhere in the Big Book is this addressed.

Please enlighten us all and explain why young people have potentially more to lose than the old or middle aged? That makes you sound like an ignorant adolescent.

I don't want to change your experience. I don't want to change your mind. I don't want to change your opinion. I have neither the power nor the inclination to do any of those things. But I think it's important to shine a light on what AA is and what AA is not. And AA is not the arbiter of what you can and cannot do. If you view it that way, you went into it like a sheep to slaughter. What else did you give away?

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

NoAAUK's picture

NoAAUK

Mon, 08/27/2012 - 14:10

Once again becket, what meeting did you go to, whether it was years ago as claimed, or more likley weeks ago? The same meeting where you met your 'non judgemental God?' LOL

Don't move, don't date, don't get a new job, don't leave your current job, don't quit smoking and don't change a thing for one year. If you drink before the year is up, the year starts over......in fact don't do anything except regurgitate stepper cult BS is STANDARD cult idoctrination at any time let alone during your first year in the cult.........and you know that perfecly well, same as cult recruiter Clara does

......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11

disclosure

Mon, 08/27/2012 - 14:26

Ayup me duck. hows your mam?

NoAAUK's picture

NoAAUK

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 01:29

Mam's doing fine at the moment. Not so sure about me though. Find out tomorrow if Mam comes home or remains in the Care home. Had to put things back for a week because of the flu

......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11

disclosure

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 08:19

Me mums sick too, care at home but not for long.
Best to you both

becket's picture

becket

Mon, 08/27/2012 - 22:08

I haven't been to a meeting in 20 years, NoAAUK. Even back then I heard "don't get into a new relationship within the first year", but I had also read the Big Book and I knew damn well that was not part of the program.

As it went, I did not start up any new relationship until year nine. It wasn't because of anything anyone said or didn't say to me. It's because I wasn't interested.

You people can think for yourselves, right?

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

NoAAUK's picture

NoAAUK

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 01:16

So once again you admit that the stepper cult is just lying contradictory cult indoctrination?

What the hell were you doing in wilsons cult anyway? Why didn't you seek the true God elsewhere? Steppism is just satans cult, designed to screw you up. wilson got his reward in this world for his part in forming it, plenty of sex and money. But I wouldn't want that on my conscience for eternity

......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11

becket's picture

becket

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 17:06

I seek "true God" everywhere, not just in AA. I seek "true God" on the subway, in the grocery line, in the handling of death in my family, in surgery, in the flowers that grow outside my window.

Whatever Bill Wilson did that was contrary to your or anyone's code of ethics and morality, the consequences are his alone. If you're suggesting that my participating in AA makes me culpable for Bill Wilson's fucking Helen Wynn or running some scam, sorry: you're wrong. It's not on my conscience, nor should it be.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

Bucket123

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 17:08

Is God inside of you Bucket 1?

becket's picture

becket

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 17:13

Because the tone of your half of the conversation is duplicitous, I consider this discourse to be over.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

Bucket123

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 17:17

Becket, I will miss you xxxx lots of love xxxx

Bucket123

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 17:20

I was being serious abot the question. Do you feel God inside of you???

becket's picture

becket

Fri, 08/31/2012 - 01:38

"Here, Becket, step a little closer to the mine shaft."

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

NoAAUK's picture

NoAAUK

Fri, 08/31/2012 - 01:08

"I seek "true God" everywhere, not just in AA. I seek "true God" on the subway, in the grocery line, in the handling of death in my family, in surgery, in the flowers that grow outside my window."

Whatever relationship that exists between you and God, exists between you and God.

However the stepper thing is just stepper recruitment. Not standard at times, I'll grant you. But the stepper thing is just cult recruitment. No answers to questions.....I never saw it at the meetings I attended blah! blah! blah!

......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11

becket's picture

becket

Fri, 08/31/2012 - 01:42

If you saw that, fine, I'm not going to argue with you. I don't deny the possibility that it does occur. I never saw it. I'm entitled to that reality, and you have no authority to debate it.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

becket's picture

becket

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 03:41

Standard indoctrination likely has its beginnings within the drug and alcohol abuse treatment industry as a means of controlling masses of problem drinkers and dopers. It has something in common with the Catholics' Purgatory - it's nothing but a threat to keep people in line.

I went to meetings all over the United States because I traveled for my job. You think it's funny that I "met [my] 'non-judgmental God'" in AA? Why is that funny?

Again, what you are describing is what has developed over time in AA, courtesy of substance abuse treatment centers, as it has become bumper-sticker oriented. It's bullshit. But it's not AA.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

NoAAUK's picture

NoAAUK

Fri, 08/31/2012 - 01:27

You think it's funny that I "met [my] 'non-judgmental God'" in AA? Why is that funny?

Because the stepper god is anything but 'non judgmental. The stepper god, which can be anything you want it besides yourself, even a 'rock' or 'doorknob' that can remove shortcomings (?), wants you to make a 'fearless Inventory' ,then confess your sins to him and another. Then reputedly removes these shortcomings for an indeterminate time, providing you keep doing his (really Buchmans ) steps. Then you have to make amends to people, search for his will only, whilst continuing to recruit for his cult.

You may have found a non-judgemental God elsewhere, but steppism is just cult, pure and simple

......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11

becket's picture

becket

Fri, 08/31/2012 - 01:43

Oh, so now there's one God for all? Why do you insist on remaining in the kindergarten of world view?

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

NoAAUK's picture

NoAAUK

Sat, 09/01/2012 - 02:40

There probably is one God for all.

The stepper versions are just for steppers. Gives them something to woffle on about as well as their drunkalogues......to impress the newcomers.....whom they prey upon

......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11

Morgan's picture

Morgan

Mon, 08/27/2012 - 19:28

Go to Lifering, or SMART (or other alternative programs); go online if there are no meetings in your area. Spend more time with your family (the ones worth spending time with). Do things in place of drinking, whatever they might be (barring anything antisocial or criminal, of course): movies, hobbies, trips, vacations. Read books. Start a blog. Play with pets (you may want not to buy or adopt a pet until you're sure you can take care of one. Be good to your pets, dammit! And of course, your children, if you have them.) Go out on a date. (If you're married, and you wish to stay that way, work on the issues that arose, if any, while you were drinking/using.) Watch your favorite TV shows. Reconnect with old friends and try to make new ones--ones that support you in your sobriety. Work on current friendships, if they are worth keeping. Read the OPF and laugh. Or cry. Wonder aloud what happened to RFR and why some people (perhaps prematurely) celebrate its "death."

Live your life.

Clara's picture

Clara

Mon, 08/27/2012 - 19:35

Why would it end? Every person that enjoyed it should have kicked in a few dimes to pay for its upkeep. No one has given any real reason, but I notice that Mike hasn't been over here, either.

I did all of those things on my first year of sobriety, except that I of course DID go to AA meetings.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

Bucket123

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 08:26

Why are you concerned with it, Ted to his hacking shit over there. You were obsessed with forum.

Clara's picture

Clara

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 16:45

I can't begin to know what this means, Buck.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

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