Alcoholics Anonymous - What is wrong with the 12 steps?

live_free_or_die's picture
Submitted by live_free_or_die on Sun, 08/26/2012 - 02:55

Besides killing people. And that the 12 steps are from the 1930's.

The 12 steps try to convince you that you are helpless
The 12 steps try to convince you that you are insane
The 12 steps try to convince you that you are a shithole of a person
The 12 steps try to convince you that you need to confess that you are a shithole
The 12 steps try to convince you that only god can fix your drinking habit
The 12 steps try to convince you that you need to live day to day

Rinse and repeat.

Just like the directions on your hair shampoo, AA/12 steps "suggests" that you rinse and repeat. LOL!

Comments

NoAAUK's picture

NoAAUK

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 03:29

Made wilson a lot of money though.........as we Brits say "he must have bin laughin all the way to the bank"

Wonder did he actually belive in some version of a god or higher power or sumit.....or was it all just one big money spinning con......same as it is today.

Higher power that can be a doorknob or somethihg..............LOL.......what a con.......its a wonder it still works Ha! Ha! Ha!

......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11

live_free_or_die's picture

live_free_or_die

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 03:36

When billyw died he was pulling in about $600,000 to $700,000 each year in royalties.

Not bad for a drunk.

Alcoholics Anonymous: MyNotGodHasItCovered®
http://www.expaa.org/
http://bereanresearch.com/
http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/
NOT AA:
Rational Recovery, SOS, HAMS
http://alcoholabusesolutions.com/

Morgan's picture

Morgan

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 04:29

I find the hagiographies of him remarkable. The new doc "Bill W." is playing in theaters now. The filmmakers say the doc doesn't shy away from showing Bill's different "sides" but they also expressed their great admiration for him. When the interviewer asked them about Bill's history of infidelity, one of them said they "found no evidence" of that!

Apparently Wilson threw a typewriter at Lois at one point. I wonder if that made it into the film.

NoAAUK's picture

NoAAUK

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 06:08

Great admiration for a lying scaremongering, predatory, acid popping, chain smoking, belladona reciving, conman? What a truly strange 'theater producing' public you Americans possess? Almost as strange as your 'so called' treatment industry.

Thank God for the Orange Papers and the truth at last

......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11

NoAAUK's picture

NoAAUK

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 06:14

God Knows how that repeated.....still got the flu. But feel that your stepper coments are really offensive none the less

......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11

massive's picture

massive

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 13:25

Hi noAAUK- I bet your furious with all the Stepper promotion that Russell Brand is doing. He does need to be stopped or else the Uk will become like the US where steppism is concerned.

Live and die free- I think everything is wrong with the 12 steps. I liked to pray and meditate and I like to give back. But in other religions things are done with a purpose. IN AA Bill W religion you do it because he said so. He made it up and he never researched it and never updated it after 75 years.

They are telling people" Science may one day accomplish this, but it hasn't done so yet" Really? That line was written in 1939. Naltrexone, The Sinclair Method is proving much can be improved with science and medication and REBT and CBT.

Its a total lie that you have to give it away to keep it. Total BULLSHIT. IN fact , in my last 6 years attending meetings I looked around the room to see who really was of "service" So many never do anything. And the same few do all the service. NOBODY...wanted to be the GSR each 2 years the commitment rolled around. only a handful. I know why now. The LA area is too infected with Clancyism and nutjob stubbornism.

Massive

Clara's picture

Clara

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 14:03

Good for Bill for keeping the open mind that science one day just might... and isn't it neat that the day is here? Do you think that people don't remember that the book was in fact written in 1939? Not everyone just chased a man into AA and then stayed for reasons that make sense to no one.

You don't believe that praying, meditating and giving back are done with purpose in most cases? Just because someone isn't shouting their deeds and patting themselves on the back doesn't mean they aren't giving back and helping other acoholics. In religions, you do those things because God tells you to.

I didn't want to be GSR, either, because a 2 year commitment wouldn't work with us and our plans to relocate when my husband graduated from his masters program, but we both served shorter terms as treasurers.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

Gunthar2000's picture

Gunthar2000

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 14:09

in the 12&12 that nothing else works besides the 12 steps... in fact he claimed that nothing else had ever worked.
These are the words that most AA members live by to this day.

AA is a religious cult dressed up to look like a treatment for alcoholism.

Gunthar2000

http://www.expaa.org/

NoAAUK's picture

NoAAUK

Mon, 08/27/2012 - 00:28

Bill Wilson was just a lying scaremongering acid popping predatory chain smoking cult promoter.

Your constant regurgitation of cult BS such as praying, meditating and giving back (cult recruitment) is running a little thin on this anti stepper site. Why dont you concentrate on some site that is full of stepper mugs like you, someboby might actually take you seriously.

Praying, Meditation and giving back LOL Same old stepper cult BS Ha! Ha! Ha!

......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11

NoAAUK's picture

NoAAUK

Mon, 08/27/2012 - 07:55

will have to talk about Russel Brand off line, not heard of him.

Think most people stopped believing in Divine Intervention over here around the 1700's. Some idiots in the so called ' recovery movement' still push the idea, but most Brits have moved away from religion and more towards God.

I think steppism is begining to die a death over here. Even stepper true believers are switching to SMART UK, I think SMART will be the next target here

......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11

NoAAUK's picture

NoAAUK

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 06:19

Ditto

......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11

NoAAUK's picture

NoAAUK

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 06:16

Ditto

......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11

NoAAUK's picture

NoAAUK

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 06:18

Ditto

......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11

NoAAUK's picture

NoAAUK

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 06:17

Ditto

......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11

NoAAUK's picture

NoAAUK

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 06:17

Ditto

......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11

Bucket123

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 06:21

Wow NoAAuk you ok???? What part of uk are you from???

NoAAUK's picture

NoAAUK

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 08:36

Sorry Bucket123, had bad flu for a time, but ok now. From North Notts......Mansfield England is my birth place.

Hope to do my bit for the destruction of the stepper cult, can't leave it all to Orange, JR and the others

......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11

Bucket123

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 08:41

NoAAuk I am an hours drive from ou, me the potteries

NoAAUK's picture

NoAAUK

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 09:15

Only been to Stoke once before, to watch Forest play at City. Seen City play at Forest and Stags though, often. Good times.

......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11

Bucket123

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 09:18

Stoke are playing Arsenal today.

becket's picture

becket

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 11:40

Aww . . . budding romance.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

NoAAUK's picture

NoAAUK

Mon, 08/27/2012 - 00:36

How's your God........you know the 'non judgemental one' you found in AA (?????????)

Must have been a DIFERENT AA than the rest of us have been to (except Clara of course LOL)

......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11

NoAAUK's picture

NoAAUK

Mon, 08/27/2012 - 00:30

Yes I heard Stoke drew with Arsenal

......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11

Bucket123

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 06:25

Every time I see the 12 steps now it makes me shudder. I was always depressed when I was in AA and always thought it was my fault that I never worked the steps. If it wasn't for OP I would still be in AA wondering why my life was shit.

Morgan's picture

Morgan

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 07:13

They validated my feelings about why I felt the way I did in the meetings and at their damned Christmas party. I went to Ala-teen when I was 10 or 11, which didn't make any sense (it was somewhere to go while the family was at an AA meeting). I actually thought I should work the steps, and I felt guilty just thinking about Step 5. I already harbored a lot of guilt, even though I never got into trouble. I thought I should do an inventory! I was thankful when my mom told me that wasn't necessary.

Clara's picture

Clara

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 08:55

If you have never worked the steps, why shudder?

Prior to taking an unbiased look at my life and being willing to do what was necessary to change it, I did feel like garbage. The steps were a big clean up. To some extent, I am still doing it with the help of the stalkers on OPF.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

Bucket123

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 08:56

You just full of bull. You have not done 1 step let alone 12. Who the fuck are kidding.

Clara's picture

Clara

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 09:03

You know, Buck, you have some control here. You can avoid my posts if you chose. It's not important to me if you believe me as my happiness speaks for itself.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

Bucket123

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 09:05

What happiness? Haha why you on anti website then? Knowing everyone hates you day in day out. Fuck off with your bullshit.

Clara's picture

Clara

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 09:08

Buck, your emotionalism toward a person you don't even know is just unbelievable. You have the tool to handle it appropriately yet you chose not to.

Have a good day.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

Bucket123

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 09:09

Piss off, don't respond. Bitch

becket's picture

becket

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 11:42

"What happiness? Haha why you on anti website then? Knowing everyone hates you day in day out. Fuck off with your bullshit."

Clara is not uniformly "hated" on this forum. Where is your perspective? All that mouthy exaggeration puts your post in the circular file.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

Bucket123

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 12:31

You keep copying and pasting then regurgitate everything I said HOURS ago. Fuck off you bitch. You nothing but a piss ant....

NoAAUK's picture

NoAAUK

Mon, 08/27/2012 - 00:59

Clara is more or less uniformly "hated" on this forum, as are you.......stepper cult recruiter

......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11

NoAAUK's picture

NoAAUK

Mon, 08/27/2012 - 00:53

The steps DON'T work......that is the point of this website.

Powerless over a dead plant, get real. As if God would create such a creature, do me a favour LOL

Came to believe a power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity......Ha! Ha! What power greater than ourselves.......AA? a Doornob? Steppism is designed to make you INSANE. You have to be insane to follow the rest of the cult garbage.

Made a decision to to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understand him (doornob or other form of god LOL) More cult BS designed by wilson to trap desparate people into his cult, which made him a millionare.

Need I go on? Every step is totally unworkable stepper cult BS

......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11

Bucket123

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 07:34

I feel so sorry for those children who are in alateen,it's terrible for them to think they have a disease as well. I'm go glad and always said no to my daughter going there when I was in AA.

becket's picture

becket

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 11:44

Children in Alateen are not taught that they have a disease. They may be taught that the drinking parent has a disease and that it gets all over them, but they're not taught that they themselves have a disease. If this is the current method of Alateen advocacy, then they're doin' it wrong.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

Gunthar2000's picture

Gunthar2000

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 11:51

http://www.al-anon.alateen.org/the-family-disease-of-alcoholism

http://www.al-anon.alateen.org/pdf/B3_understand.pdf

Alateen and Alanon both teach that alcoholism is a "family disease."

AA is a religious cult dressed up to look like a treatment for alcoholism.

Gunthar2000

http://www.expaa.org/

becket's picture

becket

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 12:16

Yes, and the "family disease" concept does not specifically indict every member of the family with the "disease". It is a reference to how every member of the family is AFFECTED by the "disease", much like how every member of a family with someone afflicted with cancer is AFFECTED by that "disease".

There is a difference, whether you want to see one or or not.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

Gunthar2000's picture

Gunthar2000

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 12:25

that the "family disease" means that all members of the family are sick.
I can't copy and paste it because it is a copyright violation.
You can find it on this PDF... Scroll about halfway down.

http://www.al-anon.alateen.org/pdf/B3_understand.pdf

AA is a religious cult dressed up to look like a treatment for alcoholism.

Gunthar2000

http://www.expaa.org/

Bucket123

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 12:33

Becket, come back when you can back up your claims. Otherwise shut the fuck up.

Gunthar2000's picture

Gunthar2000

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 12:38

Why is it that AA/ALANON/Alateen statements always need to be teased apart in order to understand their supposed "true meanings?" If the basic text of Alateen specifically states that alcoholism is a family disease, why do we have to search for the real meaning?

AA is a religious cult dressed up to look like a treatment for alcoholism.

Gunthar2000

http://www.expaa.org/

Bucket123

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 12:42

Children who go to Alateen are told they have a disease and they are sick. My friends daughters used to go and I was told this. They were messed up and they looked depressed. Ben told me recently there is now an Alatot. It's terrible.

JR Harris's picture

JR Harris

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 11:58

Alateen teaches powerlessness to its members and wants them to pray (or chant) to a god, just like the cult of Alcoholics Anonymous. Alateen and Al-Anon was the brain child of Bill Wilson who told his wife to make a feeder cult into his cult.

Here it is in writing from the gateway cults website-

Twelve Steps

1. We admitted we were powerless over alcohol—that our lives had become unmanageable.
2. Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.
3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.
4. Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.
5. Admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.
6. Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character.
7. Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings.
8. Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.
9. Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.
10. Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it.
11. Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out.
12. Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to others, and to practice these principles in all our affairs.

Read more about the chanting and ritual of Alateen, the gateway cult: http://www.al-anon.alateen.org/the-twelve-steps

If you want to become an alcoholic and be labeled like your parents as one, join the gateway cult of Alateen.

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

NoAAUK's picture

NoAAUK

Mon, 08/27/2012 - 01:03

Disease? Same disease as watching too much TV. LOL

......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11

YuppieMonkey's picture

YuppieMonkey

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 07:39

"They validated my feelings about why I felt the way I did in the meetings and at their damned Christmas party".

That reminds me of my first year sober. There was the usual Christmas banquet followed by an oldtimer speaker. I managed to buy a small box of about 12 cards to hand out to my favorite people I had met in the program. One of them was the speaker that evening. So later on while in the middle of telling his story, he starts talking about when he was new he handed out Christmas cards to everyone so that they would like him.
Geez, thanks. Should have walked out of there right then and there and never gone back. The program and the "principles" really are just one huge mind fuck. Of course a stepper defender would claim that he was just talking about his own experience, and if the shoe fits, wear it. Yeah, right. Of all the things to share your experience about.
The meetings are non-stop abuse and are used as a platform to suckerpunch anybody who is there attending. There was once a bodybuilder at a meeting, and an oldtimer shared that "you might be able to benchpress 400 lbs, don't mean shit." And I have heard thousands of times "your degree don't mean shit". When I bought my truck an 'oldtimer' said "you might think you are all hip and cool with that new truck, but wait till that payment is due". Shit, I had 9 years and he had 12 years, but I was 32 and he was like 58. Lol. And he was a security guard and I had a Masters Degree. (Guess that degree means shit, I can afford a truck!)
I really could go on and on. They use the meetings to try to hit you below the belt.
Fucking idiots.

"You'll pay to know what you really think". - J.R. Bob Dobbs

Clara's picture

Clara

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 08:42

I loved our gratitude dinner at Thanksgiving, the holiday banquet was great, too. It was timed not to interfere with either December holiday, even though our club had meetings on Christmas Eve and Christmas since not all celebrate Christians holidays.

Why didn't you seek out someone that might have been more your intellectual equal, YM? You had 9 years at 32? I didn't know I even had a problem at 23.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

YuppieMonkey's picture

YuppieMonkey

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 07:55

You still don't know you have a problem Clara, but you are in the right place.

"You'll pay to know what you really think". - J.R. Bob Dobbs

Clara's picture

Clara

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 08:20

I had a problem with alcohol, YM. I don't have a problem with AA.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

NoAAUK's picture

NoAAUK

Mon, 08/27/2012 - 01:11

You love lying cult religion. There are such unfortunates.They are not at fault. They seem to have been born that way BB Page 58

......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11

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