A special thanks... and goodbye

Submitted by disclosure on Fri, 08/17/2012 - 14:20

A special thanks... and goodbye

Comments

Clara's picture

Clara

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 14:49

My stance has always been that I don't care how a person gets sober if that is what they want.

Sobriety doesn't matter to everyone. Drinking isn't a problem to everyone. Some problem drinkers still don't want to stop so sobriety isn't an issue to them. I personally prefer the life I have as a sober person.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

First-Things-First (not verified)

Thu, 09/06/2012 - 03:16

disclosure

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 17:37

So happy sober people don’t seek oblivion, is this what you imply?

I also notice that you state joy and sobriety which are states of mind as opposed to abstinence which is physical avoidance. Does this imply that someone can achieve presence of mind and drink but not to oblivion?
does this illustrate the difference between alcoholism, problem drinking, and normal drinking? This being said is it entirely true that someone who was once alcoholic cannot make a decision to drink normally? AA is a support group for abstinence, could it be that a support group for normal drinking could be one solution?

First-Things-First (not verified)

Thu, 09/06/2012 - 03:16

becket's picture

becket

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 13:33

"I also notice that you state joy and sobriety which are states of mind as opposed to abstinence which is physical avoidance. Does this imply that someone can achieve presence of mind and drink but not to oblivion?"

Alcohol is a mind-altering, mood-altering drug. So I would think that "presence of mind" is altered as alcohol intake increases. JustMe said a couple of months ago that drinking helped her to be creative. It may loosen inhibition, but does ingestion of booze truly refine one's art?

I'm sober over 30 years but depression does not afford "happiness". In a way I'm grateful because I don't trust happiness - it's a turncoat, fleeting, mocking bitch. I'm grateful for continuing abstinence because it has improved my health. But as human beings, aren't we all looking for oblivion, or respite, or psychic soma - some kind of release from the human condition now and then?

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

live_free_or_die's picture

live_free_or_die

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 16:08

Clear as crystal now.

Alcoholics Anonymous: MyNotGodHasItCovered®
http://www.expaa.org/
http://bereanresearch.com/
http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/
NOT AA:
Rational Recovery, SOS, HAMS
http://alcoholabusesolutions.com/

Bucket123

Thu, 08/23/2012 - 06:04

Yep, exposed as a low life miserable sack of sht

Vicky345uk

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 17:28

Your absoulutely right. I was in AA for 11 years and never found the joy that I have now. I saw a lot of people in the rooms very miserable and depressed. when I left AA I did my nursing degree and did lots of other things. My life became whole again.

First-Things-First (not verified)

Thu, 09/06/2012 - 03:16

avogadno's picture

avogadno

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 19:16

I wanted to stop using drugs obsessively and not suffer depression or anxiety. At least to the extent that I had previously been prior and especially how I felt after stopping.

I wasn't searching for anyone to help me manage my life or guide me in my spirituality. I also didn't want to completely change my life, which AA's often claims is needed.

I started living MY life again after I left AA. I incorporated my own "program" and got help in different ways. I'm satisfied with life now and do hope to make further changes but it's not as imperative that I work towards it aggressively.

Pro Empowerment!
Truth about AA: http://orange-papers.org/menu1.html
Expose AA: http://www.expaa.org/

Clara's picture

Clara

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 19:22

I didn't completely change my life but I sure got a complete change in AA. There were things I knew needed to change but what it became pretty clear as I got sober that I didn't need to do that much. The people that didn't want a non-partying Clara worked their ways out of my life. It was sad in some respect. I have always said that I didn't do it as many did. I have a great network of women friends that I love and trust, but it seems different to hsve a male sponsor. They seem to share a different kind of closeness than I have with mine. Mine has been a mentor of sorts, not a person that came in the save the day and boss me around.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

Pennywise's picture

Pennywise

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 19:23

Good question, disclosure. There is nothing righteous about being sober for its own sake, at least IMO. I just don't want to be sick all the time, and if I don't drink, I can't get sick from alcohol. Booze really did a number on me. And of course it matters how you do it. Only a psychopath/sociopath would believe otherwise. Case in point, if you have to go on a raping and killing spree to stay sober, it's better that you drink. The whole "it doesn't matter how you do it" nonsense if just another stepper shortcut to thinking.

"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid."

alkieanon's picture

alkieanon

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 22:45

Pennywise says: "Case in point, if you have to go on a raping and killing spree to stay sober, it's better that you drink." Or the No Win Situation (Lose Lose). Or the Kobayashi Maru.

Linton's picture

Linton

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 15:47

I had a beer tonight and enjoyed myself in a place that served alcohol. That's my Al-Anon deprogramming complete. I managed not to get infected by a " spiritual malady " or even notice how much alcohol others were drinking. Thanks to The Orange Papers I'm back in the real world dealing with real problems and I'm also managing to squeeze in some fun. Braw!

Linton

First-Things-First (not verified)

Thu, 09/06/2012 - 03:17

Linton's picture

Linton

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 03:01

I was terrified of alcohol, I even had AA members convince me I may be a " dry drunk ". Turns out I'm just a regular guy. Phew!

Linton

disclosure

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 08:20

I’ve noticed that normal drinkers don’t drink to get drunk, they start to feel it and stop. I like the taste of some drinks and beer. If I drink one beer slowly or sip bourbon I do not get impaired and loose my ability to moderate. My equilibrium and judgment remain intact. If I abstain for weeks between drinks my body does not become dependent and no harm is incurred. This is completely contrary to the disease model, this is responsible drinking. It requires respect for alcohol and methodology, the benefit is that I get to enjoy myself and am not a cripple walking through society with a made up disease.

HAMS harm reduction one year.
AA 15+ years.

SandyB's picture

SandyB

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 03:39

I knew my deprogramming was complete when I woke up the morning after getting drunk and didn't care.

I didn't have to fire my sponsees and quit my job and jet off to rehab. My wife didn't have to move out and my family didn't have to shun me

I had a big breakfast and went back to sleep

First-Things-First (not verified)

Thu, 09/06/2012 - 03:17