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In his book "The Alcoholism And Addiction Cure" Chris Prentiss says that there are only four causes to addictive behavior.
1.) Chemical Imbalance
2.) Unresolved events from the past
3.) Beliefs you hold that are inconsistent with what is true
4.) Inability to cope with current conditions
Any thoughts on this?
Comments
Pennywise
Fri, 08/03/2012 - 14:03
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Mostly bunk. People use
Mostly bunk. People use because it feels good. We all like to feel good. It is unsurprising that taking something that makes us feel good can be addicting.
"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid."
NoAAUK
Sat, 08/04/2012 - 01:01
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"People use because it feels
"People use because it feels good"
I agree regarding Cocaine. I once thought Cocaine was the ultimate buzz and I snorted it purely for the buzz.
Alcohol is different. I don't think it is such a great buzz but it does heighten social occasions up to a point and then the negatives start to kick in. What I mean is people drink because they enjoy it, but I didn't start to hammer the booze because I enjoyed it. In my case it was because I did have an inability to cope with a current situation. The drunkenness then became a habit, and some unresolved events from the past also helped to contribute with continued Alcohol abuse.
These factors contributed to my problem, but I think the biggest single factor which set me up for 30 odd years of destructive drinking was AA and its totally self-destructive concept of powerlessness and the disease model.
I firmly believe that if Moderation Management or HAMS and the Orange Papers and other Anti AA websites and videos had been around in 1980, I would have lead a better far more productive life
AA must be stopped, every day it exists it destroys lives
......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11
becket
Sat, 08/04/2012 - 12:30
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Which part is not bunk?
Which part is not bunk?
“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian
Pennywise
Sat, 08/04/2012 - 13:12
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That, as in all human
That, as in all human behavior, neurochemical processes play an important role. Moreover, I agree that people are more likely to use intoxicating substances if they are experiencing negative emotions. There is nothing profound about that.
"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid."
Anthro
Fri, 08/03/2012 - 14:50
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chemical imbalance is a lie
by-pass all the DSM psychiatric dogma cause they're changing it all anyway to reflect the major death blow dealt to the institution by Szasz, Schaler, Vatz, Peele and many many more over the decades.
Why do you think the 5th edition is so late coming out....now they say it won't be ready for another year!!
Anthro
becket
Sat, 08/04/2012 - 12:32
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"chemical imbalance is a lie"
"chemical imbalance is a lie"
With regard to substance abuse or mental illness?
Please support your allegation.
“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian
First-Things-First (not verified)
Thu, 09/06/2012 - 03:43
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(No subject)
Pennywise
Sat, 08/04/2012 - 11:07
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Many people unknowingly
Many people unknowingly medicate neurological imbalances to try and maintain stable emotions. This has long known to be true.
How do you know this? Do you have access to the brain scans of many people? How many alcoholics ever even have a brain scan? What would a chemical "balance" look like? No doubt chemical reactions play a huge role in life, but how do we know when a person's brain chemistry is imbalanced and not just the way the person's brain is "supposed" to be? Don't the psychiatrists simply vote to decide which mental chemical compositions would be in their best (financial?) interests to define as "imbalanced," and then start prescribing medications for people who they think meet that diagnosis (often without doing a brain scan to verify anything)?
"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid."
LisaMarie
Sat, 08/04/2012 - 11:08
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How do you know that what FTF
How do you know that what FTF posted isn't true word for word? You don't. FTF posted the information, if you doubt the creditability, shows us why?
Pennywise
Sat, 08/04/2012 - 11:15
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Also, do you know that pretty
Also, do you know that pretty much anyone can go to a shrink, tell the truth, and receive psychotropic drugs to correct a chemical "imbalance"? If pretty much anybody can meet the criteria to be diagnosed as having a chemical "imbalance," what does that say about the how the psychiatric community defines "imbalance"?
"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid."
LisaMarie
Sat, 08/04/2012 - 12:16
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This says more about doctors
This says more about doctors lack of professionalism then it says about people with chemical imbalances, that need help.
becket
Sat, 08/04/2012 - 12:33
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Pennywise, how would you
Pennywise, how would you suggest a psychiatrist proceed when faced with a person with, say, profound clinical depression?
“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian
Pennywise
Sat, 08/04/2012 - 13:16
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Pennywise, how would you
Pennywise, how would you suggest a psychiatrist proceed when faced with a person with, say, profound clinical depression
Refer the person to a neurologist. Psychiatrists as we know them should not exist.
"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid."
live_free_or_die
Sat, 08/04/2012 - 20:26
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"Liked"
To true. The psychiatrist part.
Alcoholics Anonymous: MyNotGodHasItCovered®
http://www.expaa.org/
http://bereanresearch.com/
http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/
NOT AA:
Rational Recovery, SOS, HAMS
http://alcoholabusesolutions.com/
becket
Sat, 08/04/2012 - 20:45
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So depression is a
So depression is a neurological condition? What if the treatment is the same as would be applied by the psychiatrist? What if the person underwent an MRI and a CT scan and showed no organic irregularities? Would you say that person is a great big fat liar?
“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian
Pennywise
Sat, 08/04/2012 - 20:55
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No, I'd say he is depressed
No, I'd say he is depressed but does not have a medical illness. If he wants drugs to improve his mood (even though he does not have a medical illness), I'd let the neurologist (or other non-psychiatrist doctor) prescribe him some. I would not let psychiatrists write prescriptions because I don't think psychiatrists count as real doctors (even though they might get to write MD at the end of their names). To me, shrinks are basically glorified liberal artists who have no more business practicing medicine than do English professors with Ph.Ds.
"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid."
becket
Sat, 08/04/2012 - 12:43
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What Brain Scans Can Do
What Brain Scans Can Do
Show damage to brain tissue, the skull, or blood vessels in the brain
Be used with other medical tests to help doctors find the right diagnosis for mood and behavioral problems
Help researchers study healthy brain development, effects of mental illnesses or effects of mental health treatments on the brain.
What Brain Scans Cannot Do
Diagnose mental illness when used by themselves
Predict risk of getting a mental illness.
http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/publications/neuroimaging-and-mental-illn...
Doing a brain scan can eliminate causes of brain illness, such as tumors, structural abnormalities and the like, but as a stand-alone diagnostic tool a brain scan will not definitely rule in or out chemical imbalance.
“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian
becket
Sat, 08/04/2012 - 13:11
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I support FTF on this point.
I support FTF on this point. I am a lifelong sufferer of bipolar disorder. I began trying to medicate the condition with alcohol starting as a pre-teen, and as a teen with alcohol and drugs. However, I was not diagnosed until I was in my 30s. I wasn't drinking and using to be part of the crowd. I was deliberately using substances to try to manage mood swings that drove me to either crawl into a hole in the ground or become so agitated that I deliberately did harm to myself or others. No euphoria was involved in the mania, just extreme, painful, nagging aggravation. In some cases alcohol calmed the beast. In other cases it exacerbated it. Cocaine didn't help. Heroin did. In any case it was never predictable how the substances were going to play into the mood swings.
I never knew I was trying to manage a mental illness. I thought at first it was pre-adolescent shame over sexual abuse and that I was controlling with it substances. Then I thought it was adolescent angst that I was manipulating. Later I thought it was artistic blocks or relationship problems. Later still I thought I was trying to keep my marriage together with substances. It wasn't until after I was sober five years and divorced a year that a trusted friend and psychologist concluded that the depression was not situational.
It is highly likely that many, many people are trying to manage different mental illnesses with alcohol and drugs. If they're like me they just know that their own personal "normal" disposition is intolerable and they need to try to do what they can to modify it somehow. Lots of them don't even know that what they have is an illness. The fact that it is "normal" for them is no consolation whatever. Human beings hate and fear pain, whether physical or mental. We spend tremendous resources trying to escape pain or end-run pain or eliminate pain however we can. It is not for any layman to judge the characteristics or intensity or crippling effects of this pain. Psychiatrists and psychologists mostly do the best they can with their training. Some MDs are more interested in their kickbacks from clinical trials and such, but as long as I've been around the practitioners, which is almost 50 years as a patient, I have to say I've only run up against one or two who seemed to have their own interests on the front burner and mine on the back.
I realize this is an invitation to all OPF posters to turn into snarling, sniveling hyenas, picking pieces from the carcass of this revelation and gleefully turning my account of mental illness into a farce and me into an object of ridicule again. But if someone on this form doesn't share something valid and fearless the purpose of the forum is no more than a "Did not!", ""Did too!", "Did not!", "Did too!" playground for children who have no more to share than their own impotent plays for territory and "power". So do what you will, you critics, like lfop and NoAAUK and Coben and all the rest. I just think First Things First should be supported on his point.
“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian
Gunthar2000
Sat, 08/04/2012 - 13:38
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Are you on medications?
I agree... Psychiatrists and psychologists mostly do the best they can with their training.
What do you think about AA's common anti medication stance?
AA is a religious cult dressed up to look like a treatment for alcoholism.
Gunthar2000
http://www.expaa.org/
LisaMarie
Sat, 08/04/2012 - 14:38
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I am going to be a bit
I am going to be a bit militaristic here, but if I ever witnessed someone bullying another in an AA meeting about the medication they were taking. I would probably want to drag them outside and line them up to be shot.
I have never liked this disturbing behavior, it is thoughtless and borderline reckless. Most compassionate people understand the influence one can have over another in certain circumstances. It is the most stupid with huge ego's who feel they can give out advice about medications others are taking.
I want to be clear here, I am not talking about someone who is abusing prescription medication and I am witnessing this self destructive behavior.
Conan
Sat, 08/04/2012 - 14:41
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Old habits Danny?
You seem to have a thing about dragging people around outside.
Danny is currently "Rachel" - watch out folks, he's learned how to use a spell checker...lol
becket
Sat, 08/04/2012 - 14:56
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No, of course not. The flab
No, of course not. The flab can be found infiltrating the brain tissue.
“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian
LisaMarie
Sat, 08/04/2012 - 15:00
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Lmao....seriously becket, I
Lmao....seriously becket, I spit my coke all over my friend. You are quick....:)
This guy is such a douche.
becket
Sat, 08/04/2012 - 14:54
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"What do you think about AA's
"What do you think about AA's common anti medication stance?"
I don't believe AA proper actually has an "anti-medication" stance. I believe there is a faction of AA members who take it upon themselves to interpret the program in ways that grant them license on this matter. In other words, it's a topic on which they can assume what they believe is AA's position on medications and morph it into a diatribe against all use of all medications, regardless who may have prescribed the medications, regardless what those medications are treating.
AA was designed to specifically and solely address the problem of alcohol dependence. When I attended meetings there was little discussion of medications or drugs, unless someone broached the subject within a share in a meeting. There was no AA-endorsed "anti-medications stance" at that time. Individual members of AA may have formed opinions on the subject, but their opinions, individually or collectively, did not represent the program of AA.
Yes, I am medicated, and have nearly trashed my kidneys with Lithium. Nothing in life is free.
“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian
live_free_or_die
Sat, 08/04/2012 - 20:39
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Ain't no such thing as a free lunch judge.
AA was designed to bring members into the AA fold by telling them they needed to find god. This a fact documented by early AA literature written by Bill W.
In addition, AA has had an anti-medication stance from AA inception. This is also documented by early writings of Bill W. in the Grapevine. Come on judge, AA says you ain't sober if you are taking drugs.
Bill W. has written about these very subjects early on in the Grapevine. Bill W/ also talked about how to properly promote AA & the Bog Book, even though AA claims attraction rather than promotion. Bill W. wrote about this as well when he introduced the non-alcoholic trustees to the fellowship of heretics through an article in the Grapevine. Those early Grapevine articles penned by Billy W are quite revealing.
Alcoholics Anonymous: MyNotGodHasItCovered®
http://www.expaa.org/
http://bereanresearch.com/
http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/
NOT AA:
Rational Recovery, SOS, HAMS
http://alcoholabusesolutions.com/
becket
Sat, 08/04/2012 - 20:50
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"Ain't no such thing as a
"Ain't no such thing as a free lunch judge."
Didn't I just say that in the post immediately preceding yours? Do you think you're hipping me to something I don't already know? God/god.
I wish you were good at making your arguments.
I have never read any AA literature that said someone who is "taking drugs" [read: legally-prescribed medications, not shared or sold to a third party] is not sober. Please give me a link to this edict. Some AA members may mouth off about it, but that does not mean AA endorses the idea.
Publishing the Big Book has nothing to do with this topic. Can you stay on point for two minutes or is that asking too much?
“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian
alkieanon
Sat, 08/04/2012 - 21:02
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Free To Come And Go As You Please
Free to come and go as you please.
LisaMarie
Sat, 08/04/2012 - 14:57
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becket, thank you very much.
becket, thank you very much. Yes, I too can be a part of a hyena pact. FTF, should be supported as anyone else, it should not matter what side we fall down on.
You did take a huge leap here as you do quite often if I might add. I believe secretly, many here respect you for your insight.
I have roamed this path myself and experienced horrors in my childhood no one should. A few psychoanalysis's, a psychiatrist, an author and two close friends helped me to believe in life.
live_free_or_die
Sat, 08/04/2012 - 07:57
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Where/when did alcohol enter into the human equation?
Would that be a good place to start?
Alcoholics Anonymous: MyNotGodHasItCovered®
http://www.expaa.org/
http://bereanresearch.com/
http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/
NOT AA:
Rational Recovery, SOS, HAMS
http://alcoholabusesolutions.com/
Pennywise
Sat, 08/04/2012 - 08:09
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That's a good point.
That's a good point.
"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid."