Dr. Dave Moore and Bill Manville discuss "Isn’t it arrogant and self-serving to say 12 Step Programs are...." July 19, 2012

It would appear that the question of "Isn’t it arrogant and self-serving to say 12 Step Programs are the only road to sobriety?" is hitting all coasts of the United States (and abroad) and Dr. Dave Moore and Bill Manville are now discussing it online at the New York Daily News.

Addictions & Answers: ‘Isn’t it arrogant and self-serving to say 12 Step Programs are the only road to sobriety?’

Some former addicts have found other ways to get sober and stay sober, so are 12-step programs the only way to get over alcoholism?

NEW YORK DAILY NEWS
Thursday, July 19, 2012, 5:13 PM

BILL: Dave, that’s from Lucinda. “I dare you to print this,” she writes.

DR DAVE: She say how she got sober?

BILL: “Getting married gave me something to live for,” she says. “That was six months ago, and I haven’t had a drink since. The only reason I’m writing is my husband is afraid I will start again unless I join AA.”

DR DAVE: Lucinda is more charitable about AA than many others who define it in their own negative terms to avoid getting sober. Calling it, “the work of sissies,” Charlie Sheen recently went on. ”This bootleg cult,” he said “reports a 5 percent success rate. My success rate is 100 percent....”

BILL: Does that include his hospitalization rath fhehehe fmmm

DR. DAVE: Right - there are a lot odder ideas than Lucinda’s on beating booze, including Mr. Sheen’s reliance on “beating it with my brain” and “my two smoking hotties.”

BILL: I just read someone who credits her sobriety to a pet. “After a booze binge or bad coke bender, I’d end up suicidal and making impulsive decisions, like getting a tattoo or a cat,” writes Anna David, author of the Kindle Single Animal Attraction -- http://www.amazon.com/Animal-Attraction-Kindle-Single-ebook/dp/B007RQRU5.... “If a BF tried to get me to clean up, I’d merely hide my use from him. But after five tattoos I looked down one day at the almost mystical furball I’d brought home to live with me and realized I couldn’t keep killing myself with drugs and alcohol. It sounds ridiculous but after just one month of having her, I finally got sober.”

DR. DAVE: Ms. David is better known as the Executive Editor of The Fix [url: www.thefix.com], probably one of the best addiction websites on the net. I’d rather see our readers follow Anna’s adventures and blogging at her personal website than the Lohans, Sheens and Spearsèannadavid.com.

BILL: Hold it, Doc –you too? Promoting 12 Step alternatives? A spouse, a cat and maybe a few Hail Mary’s to keep sober?

DR. DAVE: I’m just going “back to the future,” Bill. Those first 100 drunks did pretty good at recovery without any formal Alcoholics Anonymous and 12 Steps.

BILL: Charlie Sheen dismisses AA as “a cult.” What do you see as the founding of recovery....or in Old Testament-style, who begat Bob and Bill, the founders of AA?

DR. DAVE: I’d credit the Psychologists William James and Carl Jung, with a healthy dose of an Evangelical Christian drunk named Rowland Hazard. BILL: I know that William James’ book of Spiritual Experiences led to the notion of taking spirituality out of religion—-

Follow the rest of the discussion at: https://www.nydailynews.com/life-style/health/addictions-answers-arrogan...?

Please note that Carl Jung is mentioned and his ONE letter is proudly displayed to Bill Wilson at the Stepping Stones compound in Beford Hills on 62 oak Road in New York.

See.... "Carl Jung, the cultist that made Bill Wilson, the man behind the cult of Alcoholics Anonymous proud of "ONE" letter" http://orange-papers.org/forum/node/1684