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Tue, 07/17/2012 - 05:42
Of course AA causes suicides, we’ve all seen them or even had friends in AA kill themselves.
Denial by steppers on this forum, about AA suicides, is just more outright lying by these people to defend their death cult.
......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11
Sat, 07/21/2012 - 12:32
"Yes81% (17 votes)
10% (2 votes)
Maybe. Maybe not. I am not sure.
10% (2 votes)
Total votes: 21
Just like the rest of the bullshit around here, this just doesn't add up.
“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian
Tue, 10/23/2012 - 06:09
Judge fecket was a little premature in declaring the results to the poll. Just as happened in the "Dewey Defeats Truman" newspaper headline, the judge gets it wrong due to his rush to declare that the poll results did not add up to 100%. What?
Yes folks, judge feckless was all hot and bothered by the fact that the poll results he sighted did not add up to 100%, when the fact is that due to rounding in the poll results software programming, the returned results were rounded up to the next integer, resulting in 101%. No matter.
We all know that judge becket is an anal retentive, don't we?
Simply to satisfy the judge (to keep him from obsessing) the poll results are:
Does AA/12 steps cause some people to suicide?
7.5 not sure
Alcoholics Anonymous: MyNotGodHasItCovered®http://www.expaa.org/http://bereanresearch.com/http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/NOT AA:
Rational Recovery, SOS, HAMShttp://alcoholabusesolutions.com/
Sun, 07/22/2012 - 07:10
Shes only anal retentive about everyone else's mistakes. Quite adept at ignoring her own.
Sun, 07/22/2012 - 07:29
Mon, 08/27/2012 - 12:57
Please explain the mistake(s) I have made that need to be addressed, Ironic.
Sat, 07/21/2012 - 12:57
Yes, but I know no one that could directly attribute the suicide to being in AA anymore than someone could claim AA caused their cancer that they then died of... I don't buy it.
Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.
Sun, 07/22/2012 - 06:51
One AA parrot is smarter than the other, but they both have the same "qualities" of the breed that was first sighted in Akron, Ohio, in 1935.
The AA Parrot, unlike others of it species, is marked by dull, boring gray feathers, making the single AA Parrot indistinguishable from others of its species.
The male AA Parrot is typically a larger bird than the female AA Parrot, and can only be distinguished by its more aggressive behavior, typically towards its female counterpart.
The AA Parrot is almost always sighted in groups, sometimes in the thousands, although the AA Parrot is always attended by at least one other AA Parrot. This small congregation of at least two AA Parrots is why any gathering of AA Parrots is now officially called an AA Parrot Group.
Almost simultaneously from its first sighting in 1935, the AA Parrot has enjoyed the protection of the United States government. The United States government's protection of this species of parrot has allowed the AA Parrot Group to grow and enjoy success in its growth as an AA Parrot Group. The United States government has provided funding for many commissions and committees to study the AA Parrot.
These studies have in fact resulted in the United States government giving preferential treatment to the AA Parrot Group. This in turn has resulted in "specialty groups" becoming interested in the AA Parrot Group. The varied "specialty groups" interests in the AA Parrot has, in effect, created an industry in which the AA PArrot Group enjoys an almost protected status. This protected status can be seen in the way the AA Parrot Group is treated by the United States governemnt, various churches accross the United States and many of the other "specialy groups" that care and nurture the AA Parrot Group.
Sun, 07/22/2012 - 16:48
Mon, 07/23/2012 - 17:38
Mon, 08/27/2012 - 12:23
Joe went in to an AA meeting. Joe feared he might be an alcoholic. He was told that if he were he would surely die without help. He took the steps and alienated all of his friends. Everybody outside AA forgot about Joe, because he was told that only AA members could understand him. Joe had a sponsor who told him that AA could cure depression and schizophrenia, but that his choice of doctor was his own. Joe became totally dependent on his AA group for everything. All of his friends were there and he got referred to a job by an AA member. He told all of his friends that he had been a "liar, a cheat and a thief" even though all he had ever done was let somebody cover his bar tab. He apologized to people who had hurt him, and told them AA had counseled him to make amends.
When Joe finally drank, he had no friends to drink with. He had nothing to talk about and had learned to talk primarily in the first person and to present himself as an example for others. He was obnoxious and couldn't make new friends anymore. He assumed he had only two choices--to drink alcoholically or not at all. AA had changed his life so that his options were more limited, because he had burned all of his bridges outside of AA. Had he gone back to drinking after quitting on his own, he would not have had any of these problems.
Lonely and depressed, Joe killed himself.
This story is fictional but it is entirely credible. AA coaches people to destroy all of their social capital unless it can help to grow AA. The 12 steps, particularly steps 9 and 12, condition the person to define all of his interactions in terms of AA and alcoholism, and this changes the way others see him. He learns to blame himself in a new and deeper way. When AA fails, the individual suffers more than he would hav had he never signed up in the first place. It adds to the price of failure, and most people fail.
Thu, 09/06/2012 - 16:18
The moral of the story is individuals kill themselves. The program of AA does not, cannot, kill.
Are you trying to say AA kills people, Mr. Hessel? If so, where can I see this video? Surely someone must have filmed it.
Thu, 09/06/2012 - 16:33
The state of California recognizes brainwashing and allows survivors to sue for damages. Suicide is one of the side effects of surviving a cult
Sun, 10/07/2012 - 11:16
And marrrietta, AA/12 steps does kill people.
Fri, 09/07/2012 - 14:25
Okay, this is a fictional story...
But let me ask you what makes you think that you burn your bridges when you go into AA? Joe doesn't ahve any friends because he burned his bridges. Why? How did he do that and why is AA repsonsible? I don't think a sponsor is going to tell you that AA helps with anything but alcohol. If you have depression and especially schiz, get to a doctor and get help. So when he went back to drinking, he had no friends anymore... How is that AA's fault? Perhaps the friends he thought he had - fairweathered bar room associates - weren't really friends at all. Why did he apologize to people that had hurt him?
Mon, 08/27/2012 - 12:34
Ray this could very well have been a true story. Thanks for the post
Thu, 09/06/2012 - 16:05
I came close to suicide. AA teaches powerlessness. I needed to learn about empowerment
Understanding and Empowerment=Freedom
Thu, 09/06/2012 - 16:16
That's all there is to it? Does freedom not require of you that you grant others freedom as well? Is there no responsibility that comes with freedom?
For some suicide is freedom. Since you're still on this side of the grave, I'd like to read your treatise on freedom.
Fri, 09/07/2012 - 03:58
Of course aa is instrumental in pushing addicts into the abyss. aa is comprised of a bunch of unqualified folks preaching & parroting unqualified & anecdotal psycho babble to fragile addicts. Its a recipe for disaster & its inevitable that disasters occur on a regular basis. Steppers are so dangerous, they swagger about due to belonging to aa. Why? How can belonging to a cult & not being your own person as an adult make anyone egotistical? Cult phenomena. aa is a cult of swaggering & full of themselves members who are unqualified to do anything but parrot dangerous instructions to addicts who could very well be on the edge. Steppers are so childish due to the aa environment & they behave childishly & are mean & stupid & again a dangerous combination & a recipe for disaster. Steppers do not tell the truth & they keep on lying to an addict on the edge. Its likely this occurs daily in aa. An addict desperate, vulnerable, a wreck, feeling totally alone & in dangerous despair prays & prays to a hp but keeps drinking every day. Said addict feels worse & worse because their hp isn't stepping in & taking over. Said addict talks to steppers including sponsor & is told over & over the problem is the addict not aa. Steppers do not tell the alcohol addict the truth that aa is ineffective & rarely works instead they batter the already very battered alcohol addict & say keep coming back. Instead the alcohol addict should be advised that aa rarely works & to try something different. Probably daily alcohol addicts in aa are further battered by lying steppers who claim that the problem is the addict & not aa. Addict first battered by alcohol addiction now is also battered by steppers & aa. The hopelessness & despair increase, alcohol addict is told over & over its your fault & is also told over & over you have character defects & you are powerless. The truth does not happen in aa & although the addict is already on the edge no stepper will admit that the addict should seek other help & that the program rarely is successful. On top of the despair & hopelessness are the lies of aa, one hit after another & the addict ends their life. If the alcohol addict had been drinking in a bar its likely their drinking would cause despair & hopelessness but the people in the bar environment would be kinder & more supportive. The typical stepper is a self righteous & pious hypocrite & batters & batters others verbally. The typical stepper is the opposite of supportive & kind & instead demands the party line & dogma & demands & believes they & the cult are always right. aa is a snake pit. The group & steppers are dangerous & the last place a vulnerable & on the ledge addict or person should be. aa is a bunch of unqualified folks practicing unqualified & anecdotal faith healing & they definitely have harmed many alcohol & drug addicts & simultaneously the addicts families & children. aa is a recipe for disaster & has contributed to addicts hopelessness & suicides from the beginning & will continue to do so. aa won't step itself & admit to its flaws, failures, ineffectiveness or dangers & damages. Its a dangerous snake pit & really needs to shut down.
Fri, 09/07/2012 - 06:55
I know people in AA that committed suicide. I know people in the outside world, so to speak, that did, too. What they had in common were overwhleming circumstances where they didn't see light at the end of the tunnel. One had cancer, one was losing his family, and another was facing financial ruin and shame. I don't see how AA has a role in any of those.
In AA, I have seen people with horrible illnesses fare better with support given to them by their friends. I have seen families repaired. I have also seen families end, but end more amicably than without personal growth they received. I have also seen people rebound from financial loss or to see it in another way. Maybe not having the obligations that alot of money and things can bring can be a tolerable situation. I've truly never seen anyone die because they couldn't have booze. I have seen them die because they did.
If I had power over what I drank, I wouldn't have had multiple DUIs. I would have been able to handle it, but when I sat down to drink, it took on a life of its own. I am better off without it. But I am not going to tell anyone that AA is the best thing out there because I don't know. I never tried anything else. I wanted to stop drinking and learn to live without it, and AA gave me that. It might very well be different for others.
Fri, 09/07/2012 - 10:33
Fri, 09/07/2012 - 10:53
AA as an organization takes no responsibility for the actions of its members. All misdeeds are attributed to character defects on the part of individual members, or sets of members. That being the case it is hard to see how consistency can allow the organization to take credit for anything. There should be symmetry in this if the principles are honest and sound.
Fri, 09/07/2012 - 11:19
If AA claims that God is responsible for restoring the recovering drunk, then AA does not take the credit for anyone's sobriety - God does.
Fri, 09/07/2012 - 14:15
I think your comments cover it all. What more needs to be said? I just wish the steppers would go home to their beloved aa mettings.