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Sun, 07/08/2012 - 18:25
"Just a simple answer will suffice."
That THAT'S something a control freak would say.
“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian
Mon, 07/09/2012 - 18:42
wow being called a control freak sure hit a nerve for you!!! You just keep bringing it up. You just have to be right & in control & keep attempting over & over to prove you are not a control freak. I would surmise control freak is something you should be used to hearing about yourself. I surmise no matter how many times you've heard it you still just have to fight it & try to control it. Just keep on trying to control what others think of you & feel about you. Wasting your time.
Tue, 07/10/2012 - 15:08
I don't keep bringing it up, patti - you keep throwing that shit over the net and I keep batting it back, that's all. You're the one with the edict phobia.
First-Things-First (not verified)
Tue, 07/10/2012 - 23:38
Tue, 07/10/2012 - 13:00
Is still a cult, whether it be Alcoholics Anonymous, The Church of Scientology, Heavens Gate or Jim Jones Peoples Temple. They all claim to have "special knowledge" that can only be had by joining the cult. They all have "Special language" to identify their ideas. You are brainwashed with this "Special Language" and especially the term "dry drunk" which is a slur intended to demean and criticize using a term that has no legal or medical definition. You are obviously very ANGRY and in DENIAL that you belong to a cult. Get real help, you need it.
"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.
Wed, 07/11/2012 - 06:39
First Things First Deleted All Its Posts - http://orange-papers.org/forum/node/1893
First-Things-First was a poster for a little over 6 days and came in here like a 90 day wonder all full of slogans and arguments but no substance and was obviously overwhelmed by the immense volume of data showing his fellowship was a very dangerous religious cult.
I believe that First-Things-First was talked too by his Sponsor or another grand wizard of the Alcoholics Anonymous faith and told to knock it off. It may have even reached its AA Intergroup level. It is very doubtful that it reached the Interchurch level on 475 Riverside Drive in New York and appears he was handled by mid-level managers of the cult.
Sat, 07/07/2012 - 07:44
I know you Wilsonites think he was some guru (even if you also think he was an asshole), but he died of emphysema from smoking cigarettes. I dont see how that is any different from dying of cirrhosis. Either way, you are still being killed by your addiction.
And that goes for all of the AA/NA members that pretend they are clean and sober while they chain smoke and chug energy drinks.
My favorite are the "marijuana addicts" in xA. They quit weed and are told that they don't have to quit cigs "just yet." lol the irony makes me..well, me.
Sat, 07/07/2012 - 09:07
Alcoholics Anonymous is a religious "confession cult" along the same lines as Scientology, the only difference being that AA was first to market their cult to the US court, jail and prison system. If L. Ron Hubbard had been the first to market his cult to them, you would be going to jails and prison and holding weird ritual chanting ceremonies in church basements hold the bible called "Dianetics" instead of the "Big Book."
Sat, 07/07/2012 - 11:56
Actually, First-Things-First, Harris is quite correct. There is a lot of similarity between Scientology and Alcoholics Anonymous. Both pretend to fix your mind and your spirit by making people delve into the past and confess everything, as if that is a cure-all. And both deny that it is a confession session. Scientology calls it "auditing" and A.A. calls it "admitting our shortcomings and wrongs and defects of character". In Scientology, you do the confession session holding two tin cans that are connected to a galvanometer, which is a simple but effective lie detector. A.A. doesn't use lie detectors, they just trust that you will confess everything, "holding nothing back in your Fifth Step" because God knows everything anyway.
And that is just the tip of the iceberg. See this short description of brainwashing techniques, and see if it doesn't resemble A.A. enough to make you a little uncomfortable:
And then you can check out the Cult Test, which also has plenty of material about both Scientology and A.A.:
Sat, 07/07/2012 - 12:52
I didn't know about the "galvanometer", lie detector, that Scientology uses in their confession sessions. It blows my mind really, and wonder if the are extorting members for real.
Truth about AA: http://orange-papers.org/menu1.html
Expose AA: http://www.expaa.org/
Sat, 07/07/2012 - 09:52
Okay, so in your opinion, AA works, but NA and the other 12 Step programs are full of shit?
Just trying to understand your position.
Sat, 07/07/2012 - 11:46
""You often see other substance addictions and sexual predators in there. Since it's not a cult, simply let them be and worry about your own recovery. Life is simpler than we make it.""
It is unethical and immoral to ignore sexual predators or anyone else that you observe abusing someone who has not provoked them. I wouldnt be able to sleep at night.
Nice Program !!!
Sun, 07/08/2012 - 10:00
"I control the things I can but I don't make it a venture to be a super hero of the world for all it's defects. Who am I to talk?"
Then why are you on the Orange forum for the past two days expressing your views about AA. You cant control people here with your opinions. They have made up their minds. Your wasting your time when you should be off worry about perfecting your own method of recovery.
If you dont agree with the majority here, go somewhere else. Life is often simpler than we make it. Just a piece of your own advice.
Sun, 07/08/2012 - 18:28
Is that what you're doing here, Sue, perfecting your method of recovery? Does that include endorsement of every contemptuous thing the OPF posters who hate AA write about? If not, which parts of alleged troll-bashing do you NOT endorse?
Sun, 07/08/2012 - 22:33
Show me where I endorsed every contemptuous thing the OPF posters who hate AA write about. I dont endorse bashing and name calling. I think it is imature. When I feel like it and I have the time; I express my opinion based on whats being said and my experience. Are you trying to figure out where I am coming from?? If so; dont bother. There is nothing malicious behind it.
Tue, 07/10/2012 - 14:27
"When I feel like it and I have the time; I express my opinion based on whats being said and my experience." That's all any of us is doing, some with more success than others in communicating.
Perfection must be lonely. Maybe you could share some of the Mystery and the Ideal with patti.
Tue, 07/10/2012 - 17:27
I realize that you are here expressing your opionions like me. Some of us just do so a lot more frequently than others. Were you criticizing my communication skills? If so, I dont mind because I think its a matter of opinion.
I'd like to ask you again; to Show me where I endorsed every contemptuous thing the OPF posters who hate AA write about. Was that Just another accusation.
Sun, 07/08/2012 - 18:14
We are not perfect people. Can't you simply let us be & worry about your own recovery? You have a lot more troubles than what you have written here about yourself. How long have you been telling other people what they should or shouldn't do, how they should or shouldn't feel & how they should handle their own recovery? You wrote you've been in & out of AA for years & in & out of sobriety for years? Why are you sweating what anyone on this forum or anywhere else in the world is doing, thinking or feeling? Shouldn't you just be keeping your own side of the street clean? You appear to be a typical stepper a self righteous hypocrite & know it all. Grow up.
Sun, 07/08/2012 - 18:32
You forgot "control freak", patti. Get your insults together all in one place for maximum impact, sweetie.
"Why are you sweating what anyone on this forum or anywhere else in the world is doing, thinking or feeling?" What an interesting contrast with what Sue just wrote about not being able to sleep at night if she didn't take some sort of action on 13th steppers. Seems recently you were mouthing off in a similar vein, and now your mantra is "it's no one's business what's happening anywhere else in the world, or what anyone else thinks or feels"? Pick a side and stick with it, patti. It will help you to get well faster.
Mon, 07/09/2012 - 18:45
ha ha! there goes that control freak nerve again! LOL.
Sat, 07/07/2012 - 11:24
I was never a Wilsonite. Weren't you just yesterday upset at people lumping people together?
Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.
Sun, 07/08/2012 - 18:34
Is it "addiction", or is it the choice to smoke despite the obvious health risks? Is there a difference in your mind? "Addiction" seems to imply need, or some degree of inability to control ingestion, whether mental or physical. Choice does not carry the same weight. Which is it? Or is it both, which pries open more loopholes in the discussion?
Tue, 07/10/2012 - 23:39
Sat, 07/07/2012 - 07:47
I think AA gave me a bad case of body dismorphic disorder.
Also, I agree with Ironic. And hate is too soft of a word for AA and Alanon.
Sat, 07/07/2012 - 13:27
Do you want to be 65 and still vigilantly defending your "hate" of something that does not have the power to damage you unless you let it?
Sun, 07/08/2012 - 00:22
I think you're a softie dandammit, and I don't think you have any hate in you.
Sun, 07/08/2012 - 18:20
Is not quitting your drinking & you continuing to drink also self mutilating? Is coming on this forum & trying to control the way people here think, feel or act healthy for you or anyone else to be doing? Are you aware that one of the reasons so many people reject AA is to sever interactions with people who act like you? Do you feel responsible or guilty for being obnoxious & people fleeing from AA due to obnoxious members like you? Why can't you just stop drinking & stay sober & be happy & SMILE? Why can't you just be happy & smile instead of posting on this forum & being obnoxious? Don't you feel bad or guilty about being so obnoxiously childish?
Sat, 07/07/2012 - 07:51
in an attempt to bring AA to its knees
Sat, 07/07/2012 - 08:03
FTF said: "Lies are often stronger than truth."
Please explain this statement. Thanks.
Alcoholics Anonymous: MyNotGodHasItCovered®http://www.expaa.org/http://bereanresearch.com/http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/NOT AA:
Rational Recovery, SOS, HAMShttp://alcoholabusesolutions.com/
Tue, 07/10/2012 - 23:40
Sat, 07/07/2012 - 08:28
"Conquering Deception" by Jef Nance.
Lies are never ultimately stronger than truth. I am not surprised that you would say they are, though. FTF, you have been conquered by the AA/12 step lies and deception.
Oh, well, have a nice day.
Sat, 07/07/2012 - 08:45
Smiles all day long, everyday, my AA loving friend.
Is truth ultimately stronger that the lie FTF?
Sat, 07/07/2012 - 09:04
Was Heaven Gate real, FTF, or a lie?
Tue, 07/10/2012 - 23:41
Sat, 07/07/2012 - 09:56
AA/12 steps is a lie to me, as a successful "treatment program". AA/12 steps has the potential to warp peoples minds, such as a cult like Heavens Gate or Jim Jones' cult following.
And AA/12 steps kills some people.
That is what I believe and it is real to me. Thanks for allowing me to beleive that. Smiles to ya.
Sat, 07/07/2012 - 13:28
Truth can be created by the repetition of a lie.
Sun, 07/08/2012 - 07:20
Sat, 07/07/2012 - 07:55
If AA works for you, why are you looking at "alternatives"? There is no alternative to stopping drinking as one must stop drinking in order to stop drinking. And it is my opinion that it is AA that shows contempt for the alcoholic by offering a fraud treatment to a real problem.
Sat, 07/07/2012 - 09:15
Are you one of those AA evangelists First-Things-First? Tying to convert the Orange Papers Forum to the Bill Wilson Religion? You would have just as good of a chance converting people to the cult of Scientology, you should stick to jails and prisons where your conversion targets are captive and very easy to manipulate. Remember to tell them that it is "their choice" when you sign them up for a year or two of "service work" providing for the feeding, growth and hunting trips of the cult of Alcoholics Anonymous.
Sun, 07/08/2012 - 18:26
How do you know what those over 95% of people who rejected AA did or did not do? How do you know who worked it or not? How can you possible know the information you are writing? How do you know what people did or did not do? You don't know & the things you do think you know are all in your mind & nothing more than that. Grow up.