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Submitted by msafrany on Fri, 06/29/2012 - 12:14

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Comments

JR Harris's picture

JR Harris

Fri, 06/29/2012 - 12:21

Don't forget, this is Spiritual, not Religious program! I have never seen so many atheists praying to false gods in my life.........

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

becket's picture

becket

Fri, 06/29/2012 - 12:20

There's no such thing as bad press, msafrany.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

flannigan

Fri, 06/29/2012 - 12:24

It is my understanding that becket has not been in AA for 20+ years. She has every right to express herself on OPF in any manner that she chooses, regardless of her affiliation/non-affiliation with AA. Her views are a fair target for those that disagree with her, but let's hold back on the personal attacks. It serves no purpose to anyone. This is just my opinion and others may differ. So be it.

msafrany

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 14:59

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becket's picture

becket

Fri, 06/29/2012 - 22:16

Oh, no, msafrany, you're mistaken: these are indeed my views, particularly as they apply to you.

I don't think I'm among the "chosen few". I'm content to be among the many: the many people who have overcome alcohol dependence. It doesn't make me special. It doesn't make me feel special. It just made me pick up where I left off, which is a good thing.

By the way, msafrany, you're cleaning up your own puke here. I don't do windows and I don't mop up weasel puke.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

Trisha K.'s picture

Trisha K.

Fri, 06/29/2012 - 13:34

msafrany and JR, the two of you are better then this and all of us here deserve more from the both of you.

“The more I traveled the more I realized that fear makes strangers of people who should be friends.”
Shirley MacLaine

becket's picture

becket

Fri, 06/29/2012 - 23:38

Trisha, they're actually not better than this. This is as good as it gets with the two of them.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

Trisha K.'s picture

Trisha K.

Sat, 06/30/2012 - 08:32

I can be in denial, too. Lol!!

“The more I traveled the more I realized that fear makes strangers of people who should be friends.”
Shirley MacLaine

disclosure

Fri, 06/29/2012 - 16:28

"There is no such thing as bad publicity except your own obituary."
Brendan Behan

Read more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/b/brendanbeh103369.html#xyGe3A0...

Cliché touché Becket. Once again you use a cliché to rebut clear statements that were made in plain language. Bravo stepper, you have proven it possible to speak entirely in quotes, slogans, clichés, idioms, soliloquy, and metaphor. I crown you patriarch of the loaded tongue, lacking in plausible content yet rich in coercion.

billybudd

Fri, 06/29/2012 - 19:49

but wtf? The reigning priestess of dramahood copy-pasted an extensive and cogent, stand-alone comment, titling it absolutely clichely, and you call it "rebut"? Rebut of what? There's no context, except the usual shit-for-brains shit-stirring one-shit-upmanshit that passes for "coercion"-free content hereabouts. Dumb, dumb, dumb; however superbly par for the "course". What's that awful smell?

billybudd

Fri, 06/29/2012 - 19:57

it takes decades to apply the "decades" label, but mere seconds to laugh one's ass off, make shallow mockery, misattribute, but not actually address the object of clownfuckery. Go figure.

becket's picture

becket

Fri, 06/29/2012 - 21:45

So you believe that the responsible thing for me to have done would have been to respond to msafrany's contempt with another thoughtful post, with carefully-chosen words and softening disclaimers about my views being my own and not necessarily relating to anyone else?

Your great idea is for me to construct yet another post that can be dismantled and ridiculed point by point by a man who has been nothing but a sanctimonious asshole to me for the last year?

That's the best you can do? Well, then, . . . fuck you too, dude.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

Clara's picture

Clara

Fri, 06/29/2012 - 19:19

The truth, as I see it, is that this group of people on this forum may be free of the desire to attend AA meetings or NA meetings any longer, but as a whole you are the most hamstrung, shackled people I've ever encountered anywhere. Of course, that's the truth as I see it. I know you have your own.>>

This is about as true as it gets.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

NoAAUK's picture

NoAAUK

Sat, 06/30/2012 - 05:29

Has God removed all your shortcomings yet?

......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11

Trisha K.'s picture

Trisha K.

Sat, 06/30/2012 - 08:35

Can I get a witness? Why yes, Clara. Amen!!!

“The more I traveled the more I realized that fear makes strangers of people who should be friends.”
Shirley MacLaine

Sue

Fri, 06/29/2012 - 23:37

Why dont you and Becket free yourself from these "so called" shackled, hamstrung people on this forum and move on. Could it be that your shackled, somewhat obsessed and too concerned??

becket's picture

becket

Fri, 06/29/2012 - 22:05

Every place we go on earth will be inhabited by detractors and naysayers and combatants. If two million people happen by the OPF this month, maybe some of them need to find a message that is not so saturated with venom that they cannot hear it. They need to know that they have a choice in pursuit of sobriety. They need to know that the AA you people discuss is a toxic hybrid of AA that makes unnecessary demands upon people and is so often and so consistently misinterpreted as to have fallen into favor with the treatment industry.

Few of these people will want to explore AA, but if they can understand that it is and should remain an option on the menu of dependence management tools, they are not going to hear it from you. So I stay. Just in case.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

Persephone In Exile's picture

Persephone In Exile

Fri, 06/29/2012 - 22:15

"If two million people happen by the OPF this month, maybe some of them need to find a message that is not so saturated with venom that they cannot hear it."

They best skip your posts then, eh?

http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/

becket's picture

becket

Fri, 06/29/2012 - 22:17

If all they have to read is hate, they'll eventually find their way around on the forum and learn who to read and not to read.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

Persephone In Exile's picture

Persephone In Exile

Fri, 06/29/2012 - 22:24

Like I said....

http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/

Clara's picture

Clara

Sat, 06/30/2012 - 08:33

Not at all. I am not the one wallowing in restlessness and discontent all the while screaming how he or she is "finally free."

Nice to see you, Sue. Must be boring in Utopia. Everyone has stopped by today.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

Sue

Sat, 06/30/2012 - 11:02

Dont I wish life was utopia but its good. Definitely not boring. I dont have the time some do to devote to blogging and if I did have more time, I would probably donate my time to animal rescue. I work very hard for a living and on my days off I have to take care of personal business. I spend time with friends and I Love reading "inspiring books" about life when I have spare time. At this point I do have some interest in what is being said on forums like this. Not near as much as i use to. Moderation is important, you know. I was to obsessed with blogging a year ago. The interaction was definitely beneficial on ST; but then it became unhealthy for me.

Maybe Certain individuals are graciously, donating their time here on the Orange Forum. They may feel the need to protect those individuals who are confused and contemplating leaving AA or have already done so. If that's the case; I think thats a very unselfish, time consuming act. However, it seems like someone with such vast knowledge of the program would make better use of their time on a Pro AA forum. I say this because when I was ready to leave AA, the last thing I wanted was to listen to more of what I had already heard. I was busy on the internet looking for AA alternatives and Anti-aa opinions; yet Im sure that something you say or others who feel the same, might lead some misguided sole back to AA where they belong. Guess that makes your time and effort worth it.

becket's picture

becket

Fri, 06/29/2012 - 22:28

I'm making an attempt to not shred you here, Persephone. People who wade through the Orange Papers Forum will find a full spectrum of ideas and nonsense. If anyone is looking for a positive word on many of the suggestions to be found within the program of AA, I want to make sure they might find it here amongst all the ruin. Hip waders required.

So why are you in such a snit tonight?

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

disclosure

Fri, 06/29/2012 - 23:09

Becket said...
If anyone is looking for a positive word on many of the suggestions to be found within the program of AA, I want to make sure they might find it here amongst all the ruin.

Becket, do you mean like this post you put up at Fri, 06/29/2012 - 23:45???:
"So you believe that the responsible thing for me to have done would have been to respond to msafrany's contempt with another thoughtful post, with carefully-chosen words and softening disclaimers about my views being my own and not necessarily relating to anyone else?
Your great idea is for me to construct yet another post that can be dismantled and ridiculed point by point by a man who has been nothing but a sanctimonious asshole to me for the last year?
That's the best you can do? Well, then, . . . fuck you too, dude.”
"What is truth? said jesting Pilate; and would not stay for an answer." ~ Francis Bacon

Thanks again for that positive word from AA!
Is this acceptance a result of the steps, sponsorship, and felowship?
Are you even in AA?

becket's picture

becket

Fri, 06/29/2012 - 23:33

I said a positive word ON AA, not a positive word FROM AA. I am not a member of AA, disclosure. I don't live strictly by the tenets of the program. When I have been given an opportunity here I have engaged in civil, thoughtful discussion on several topics, from atheism to mandating criminals to meetings to predatory behaviors to interpretations of the steps. It is possible for me to contain my emotions here. However, I have nothing but contempt for msafrany, specifically because he attended 20 years of AA meetings, with very deep involvement, and suddenly flipped and started calling everyone who ever considered AA dopes and fucktards. I have no responsibility to sit back and allow for that. It's offensive. And if you find my posts offensive, move on. It's not so hard, dude. It's a choice.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

NoAAUK's picture

NoAAUK

Sat, 06/30/2012 - 05:33

"fuck you too, dude.”

Is swearing a shortcoming?

......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11

disclosure

Sat, 06/30/2012 - 08:19

Then what the heck are you doing here?
Why such passion?
Why the considerable time investment?
You tell others to move on, is this because you want to move on yourself but can't.

I attended 20 years of AA meetings, with very deep involvement, and suddenly flipped. AA is horrible.

Trisha K.'s picture

Trisha K.

Sat, 06/30/2012 - 08:30

The same reason you are here, disclosure. So don't get all uppity, with your fake indignation.

“The more I traveled the more I realized that fear makes strangers of people who should be friends.”
Shirley MacLaine

disclosure

Sat, 06/30/2012 - 09:00

You guys are the perfect example of what is wrong with AA.
Keep coming back!

I attended 20 years of AA meetings, with very deep involvement, and suddenly flipped. AA is horrible.