Does this look like a "Nationally Renown" Alcohol and Drug Rehabilitation Center? Another look at Morningside Recovery in Newport Beach California


While it has been widely reported that Morningside Recovery in Newport Beach California is being shut down for malpractice and improper licensing, not much is being said about the "victim" of the Bill Wilson guru's at this supposedly "Nationally Renoun" death trap of Bill Wilson inspired and Alcoholics Anonymous World Service, Inc (AAWS) instructions from the Interchurch Center in New York for non-professional Sponsorship as "treatment." Brandon Jacques came all of the way from Missouri in March of 2011and ended up living in one of these fine establishments to teach Bill Wilson chanting. Would you want to send one of your family members to one of these death traps?

Family sues Morningside Recovery after son's death

A Missouri family claims in lawsuit rehab centers failed to properly care for their son who suffered from bulimia.

By SEAN GREENE / FOR THE ORANGE COUNTY REGISTER

A Missouri family is suing rehabilitation facilities Morningside Recovery and First House Detox for the wrongful death of its son who died from complications of bulimia in their care, according to a lawsuit filed last month in Orange County Superior Court.

Brandon Jacques sought treatment for bulimia and alcoholism with Morningside based in Newport Beach in March 2011. When complications related to the eating disorder arose, he was transferred to the Costa Mesa rehab clinic. Days later, the 20-year-old died of cardiac arrest.

Now Jacques's parents and older sister are suing the clinics and their operators for an unlimited amount in damages, alleging in a civil case that the clinics failed to administer proper care for their son, according to the suit filed March 29.

The case is the latest in a series of problems surrounding Morningside Recovery, including a running legal battle with the city of Newport Beach over code and zoning violations and nine other lawsuits from former patients or their families.

On Nov. 1, the state ordered the company to shut down its residential rehab programs by Nov. 2 and relocate its clients, said Suzi Rupp, spokeswoman for the California Department of Alcohol and Drug Programs. The agency also began proceedings to revoke Morningside's license after it was found that it had been careless with prescription drugs and was operating beyond the scope of its licenses, Rupp said.

On March 14, 2011, Brandon Jacques, seeking treatment for bulimia and co-occurring alcoholism, was admitted to the Newport Beach facility. He was transferred to Morningside from an Arizona sober living home, where he made progress with his drinking but continued to binge and purge. The Arizona facility believed bulimia was his primary problem, according to the lawsuit.

The lawsuit alleges Morningside understood that Jacques was coming to the center for treatment of the eating disorder and that it recognized the eating disorder was Jacques' primary problem.

Morningside, which advertises nationwide and has been featured on A&E Network's television show "Intervention," markets itself as a "'world class' recovery facility" in dealing with dual diagnostic cases such as Jacques', according to the lawsuit. Psychological disorders such as bulimia can co-occur with alcohol and drug abuse.

Mary Helen Beatificato, Morningside's acting chief executive officer, said in an interview the facility treats dual diagnosis cases.

"We're not a primary eating disorder facility," she said.

The family's lawsuit alleges that Morningside failed to properly treat and monitor their son's eating disorder. His binging and purging continued, causing hypokalemia – abnormally low potassium levels in the blood, according to the lawsuit.

On March 31, 2011, Morningside transferred Jacques to First House, a detox facility in Costa Mesa, to open more room for new clients, the lawsuit alleges. His parents were not consulted, nor did they know their son's life was at risk, according to the lawsuit.

On April 2, 2011, Jacques had a heart attack while watching television at First House and later died at Hoag Hospital.

The Jacques' lawsuit names Morningside CEO David Gates and President Raymond Yates as defendants, as well as First House owner Richard Perlin. Morningside and First House officials said they have not yet been served with the lawsuit.

"We are looking forward to being able to address any of the allegations in the (lawsuit)," Beatificato said.

Perlin said in an interview that his staff did not know about Brandon Jacques' bulimia. First House – which is now closed because of unrelated state violations – was a small non-medical detox facility that temporarily housed patients from nearby treatment centers, he said.

"A patient with these kinds of life-threatening conditions would not have been appropriate at First House," Perlin said, adding that Jacques should have been hospitalized.

After the death, Perlin said he showed Jacques' father Ted the facility.

"I walked the father around my facility. I let him literally cry on my shoulder. I gave them absolutely unobstructed access to my facility and what it did," he said. "I'm sad that they lost their son."

Brandon Jacques was husky as a child, his family says in the lawsuit. As a teenager, he became focused on his appearance, wrestling in junior high and purging to make weight. He was a bright student who excelled in high school, but his struggles with bulimia and later alcohol abuse led him to drop out of college. By seeking treatment, he was hoping to take up his studies again.

Source: http://www.ocregister.com/news/morningside-348702-jacques-lawsuit.html

The ongoing battle to close down these death traps known as "Morningside Recovery" is also being followed on the Orange Papers on "Morningside Recovery accused of unlicensed treatment. " http://orange-papers.org/forum/node/1344

AND

Residents of Lido Isle, Newport Harbor, California are trying to stop the growth of Morningside Recovery Center. http://orange-papers.org/forum/node/1749

Comments

JR Harris's picture

Morningside, which advertises nationwide and has been featured on A&E Network's television show "Intervention," markets itself as a "'world class' recovery facility" in dealing with dual diagnostic cases such as Jacques', according to the lawsuit.

Oh no, they even have started to hire Hazelden trained "Bounty Hunters" (i.e. Interventionists) to bring in their prey and advertizing on A&E...............

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

trying to stop another sober house from opening. Anyone, according to the news source, can open up one of these homes. That would mean they have some idea of the liability and cover themselves in the admissions process by making sure people are of sound mind, can sign own documents without a POA, and sign off accepting full responsibility for themselves.
Since the recovery industry has become so lucrative with sober houses, alano clubhouse chains, fancy resorts and rehab facilities, national chemical dependency licensure becoming more standardized, etc etc.., why does the recovery rate remain dismally low? like around 5% at best?
Why have the american taxpayers put out 1 trillion "that's 1 trillion dollars" since the 1970's for such a poor product? How did this happen? What is it about mixing a little old time religion with the growing medical industry 77 years ago that allowed such a horriby ineffective product to expand?
We don't see this kind of subsidizing of a bad product in the private sector?
What are the american taxpayers thinking?
oh wait.....silly me!! THEY AREN'T THINKING.....THEY DON'T HAVE A FUCKING CLUE!!

Anthro

becket's picture

Anthro, are you saying that the one trillion dollars since the 1970s have all been spent on the 12 step modality? Can you verify or document this somehow?

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

JR Harris's picture

This is the latest wrinkle in the nearly decade-long battle over drug rehabilitation homes in Newport Beach. Homeowners in West Newport have said that their quality of life suffers from the area having too many of the homes, and the city has spent more than $1.5 million fighting lawsuits from rehab home operators who have contested city ordinances. The most contentious ordinance was one from 2008 that forced operators to undergo an extensive public review and permitting process.

Source: http://www.dailypilot.com/news/tn-dpt-0810-rehab-20100809,0,1218472.story

See also"Residents of Lido Isle, Newport Harbor, California are trying to stop the growth of Morningside Recovery Center. " http://orange-papers.org/forum/node/1749

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

on alcohol/drug policy, legislation, treatment funding national, state, local.....

the whole burrito is now worth a cool trillion

Anthro

live_free_or_die's picture

I don't care if it is the Garbage Burrito from Rosa Maria's (San Berdoo). btw, best burrito in SoCal.

http://www.rosamarias.com/our-menu

keep in mind, TANSTAAFL.

Alcoholics Anonymous: MyNotGodHasItCovered®
http://www.expaa.org/
http://bereanresearch.com/
http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/
NOT AA:
Rational Recovery, SOS, HAMS
http://alcoholabusesolutions.com/

JR Harris's picture

Morningside Recovery is dedicated to providing world-class care for men and women who are chemically dependent or suffering from co-occurring disorders. We believe every client can recover and learn how to manage mental and emotional stability. Our treatment model is based on years of experience backed by clinical research in treating clients with chemical dependency and mood disorders. Our comprehensive modules are designed to meet an array of needs, and Morningside prides itself on being able to truly address the psychiatric needs of clients with co-occurring disorders.

Source: http://www.morningsiderecovery.com/

Meet the doctors:

KENNETH PERLMUTTER, Ph.D
FAMILY RELATIONSHIPS SPECIALIST

FOUZIEH NIKZAD, LMFT
CLINICAL TEAM LEADER

MELISSA HOLMES, BA, CADC-II, LAADC
DIRECTOR OF ACADEMIC SERVICES

REANNA ROBLES-CARR, MFTI
THERAPIST

KAREN ALONSO, MA, LMFT
THERAPIST

ELIZABETH WATERMAN, Psy.D
BEHAVIORAL HEALTH SPECIALIST

GREGORY M. YOUNG, MS, MFTI
THERAPIST

JOEL EDWARDS, BS, WFR, CFR
DIRECTOR OF EXPERIENTIAL EDUCATION

MAGGIE BAUMANN, MA, LMFT
ADULT ADOPTION PROCESS THERAPIST

JODY MARGOLIS, MS, RD
DIETITIAN

Source: http://www.morningsiderecovery.com/morningside-staff/

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

JR Harris's picture

Is a drum circle the new way to practice the rituals and ceremonies of Bill Wilson Chanting at Morningside Recovery?

a firm believer in the Mind Body Spirit connection. Her healing work started off when she became a Certified Massage Therapist in the state of California. She continued her studies with Energy Healing and Reiki, which led to exploring more modalities in alternative healing. This ultimately brought her to learning a form of self exploration called “journeying” (a type of meditation that is driven by the sound of a continuous drum beat). Her desire to learn more prompted her to study with a number of teachers from The Esalen Institute, The Foundation of Shamanic Studies and independent Master Teachers. After using this modality to continue a path of self healing, she was inspired to share this type of healing with others.

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

becket's picture

I'm guessing that's not Lisa in the photograph above . . .

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

WOW that sounds like a real evidence-based practice to me!! hahaha

Anthro

And go to SAMHSA website for a list of over 240 evidence based practice models .....one of the little things SAMHSA threw together real fast a few years back when they figured out people were seeing through the recovery industry bullshit

http://www.samhsa.gov/index.aspx

Anthro

JR Harris's picture

Melrose California neighbors come out in force over planned expansion of Sober Living homes in the area - 5/31/2012 http://orange-papers.org/forum/node/1756

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

Lily's mom's picture

Sober Living by the Sea, The Victorian, The Rose and NTS all located in the Newport Beach Costa Mesa area have all at one time or another had drum circles as part of their programs. The article below is called drumming out of drugs and explains the use of drumming in Nationally Renowed Treatment Centers.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1447805/

Lily's mom

JR Harris's picture

Complementary Therapy for Addiction: “Drumming Out Drugs”

Michael Winkelman, PhD, MPH

Objectives. This article examines drumming activities as complementary addiction treatments and discusses their reported effects.

Methods. I observed drumming circles for substance abuse (as a participant), interviewed counselors and Internet mailing list participants, initiated a pilot program, and reviewed literature on the effects of drumming.

Results. Research reviews indicate that drumming enhances recovery through inducing relaxation and enhancing theta-wave production and brain-wave synchronization. Drumming produces pleasurable experiences, enhanced awareness of preconscious dynamics, release of emotional trauma, and reintegration of self. Drumming alleviates self-centeredness, isolation, and alienation, creating a sense of connectedness with self and others. Drumming provides a secular approach to accessing a higher power and applying spiritual perspectives.

Conclusions. Drumming circles have applications as complementary addiction therapy, particularly for repeated relapse and when other counseling modalities have failed.

Is it a form of hypnosis?

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

Lily's mom's picture

Not really hypnosis more like meditation. No one is leading you. Everyone has their own individual experience. Drumming Circles are also used for cancer patients as it enhances the immune system there was a study done where patients had t-cell counts before and after drumming after the drumming cancer killing t-cells were higher. http://www.mind-body.org/bittman.html

Lily's mom

Lily's mom's picture
JR Harris's picture

Even though I do not believe in AA meetings because I honestly think they are very dangerous places, I will admit that the closing Lords Prayer or Serenity Prayer did have a calming effect. I have literally been at meetings with 200+ people all holding hands and praying to the rhythmic beat of the prayer. It was actually very moving, it was just what happened after the prayer and the gossip that I did not like and frankly is very dangerous.

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

Lily's mom's picture

I am a little confused you went to AA meetings? Does this mean you are a recovering person? I am wondering if you dislike AA meetings why you aren't more open to therapy. I can understand if you don't like Morningside but from what I can see this Recovery Center has more REAL therapist than any of the other centers I listed above. They aren't drug and alcohol "counselors" who went to school for a year and pretty much just walk people through the steps. Some of those "counselors" have alot of their own issues to deal with. If I were going to treatment I would want be seen by a licensed therapist LMFT etc. By the way I have also taken Tai Chi Yoga and have had acupuncture done all have helped me too. So IMHO calling all those people "witch doctors" seems a bit harsh.

Lily's mom

JR Harris's picture

I have been to both AA and NA meetings and participated in many "special events" and Intergroup meetings, but I do not believe in the labeling of any person as having a life long "disease" labeling them forever to the recovery industry.

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

Lily's mom's picture

You said " I do not believe in the labeling of any person as having a life long "disease" labeling them forever to the recovery industry" I couldn't agree more with this statement.

Lily's mom

JR Harris's picture

The National Center on Addiction and Substance Abuse (CASA) report "Addiction Medicine: Closing the Gap between Science and Practice" can be downloaded at http://www.casacolumbia.org/templates/NewsRoom.aspx?articleid=678&zoneid=51

"June 26, 2012
New report, Addiction Medicine: Closing the Gap between Science and Practice, reveals addiction treatment neglected by the U.S. medical system and a lack of national treatment standards to assure quality care for those with the disease of addiction."

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

Lily's mom's picture

Thanks for the link. I don't have time to read 100 pages right now but if I get a chance later will take a look.

Lily's mom

becket's picture

Wow, JR Harris, I am totally digging your tap dancing in the face of this newcomer. Not the usual name-calling (after the witch doctor thang), no belittling, no sarcastic, cynical jabs at alternative therapies. You actually found recitation of the Lord's Prayer a very moving thing with a "calming effect"?

Who are you today? I don't recognize you. Why are you suddenly so deferential?

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

Lily's mom's picture
JR Harris's picture

So actually it is the rhythmic beat that causes calmness in the addicted individual? Some sort of harmonic balancing of the brain? It claims to be able to "help" with:

Drumming Reduces Tension, Anxiety, and Stress
Drumming Helps Control Chronic Pain
Drumming Boosts the Immune System
Drumming Produces Deeper Self-Awareness by Inducing Synchronous Brain Activity
Drumming Accesses the Entire Brain
Drumming Induces Natural Altered States of Consciousness
Drumming Creates a Sense of Connectedness with Self and Others

That is quite a list. Sessions last about an hour I take it? How many sessions does it take to achieve some relief?

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

Lily's mom's picture

I have used drumming for anxiety, stress and chronic pain. You can drum for 5 minutes and feel much calmer, relaxed and focused at least that has been my own experience.

Lily's mom

JR Harris's picture

The old saying that music soothes the savage beast comes to mind. I not totally disallowing it, this blog was actually about Morningside Recovery and the problems they were having. I do have to wonder if drum circles can really help the chronic relapse patient. One of the issues with Morningside was they refused to release the number of people attending on probation and parole. I do understand that under CFR42 they can not release the actual names, but they could have released the percentage which according to the CASA report released this week (June 26,2012) is at about 44%.

I'm not really knocking the therapy, but is it appropriate to control some of the people and make them safe for the residents of that area? I will admit I have been to, for lack of a better description, fire dances with drums on the beach and it was a pleasurable experience and I did leave feeling better. I'm not knocking it, I don't believe it is harmful.

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

Lily's mom's picture

I understand what you are saying about Morningside but like I said before maybe it should have been left at addressing Morningside and not individuals that are trying to help people; a therapist, yoga instructor or drum circle facilitator don't deserve to be called names. They aren't making the decisions you are upset about. Most people I have met in the "healing professions" are generally very nice people and just want to help.

Lily's mom

JR Harris's picture

Through out history, the medical profession has been in the "practice" of medicine. There are no sure things. In ancient times, they used to cut holes in your head to relieve chronic head aches. In today's medicine that is still done to relieve pressure on the brain due to traumatic brain injuries, it is not done for headaches (brain tumors not withstanding). Electro shock therapy has been used for many purposes in the past, including for the "treatment" for homosexuality. If prescribed today, I doubt if it would have the same type of reactions as it had in the past in the media and press.

I understand, but are these "treatments" or are they "relaxation" methods. I pay to go to a concert, rock or classical to make me feel better, but that is not a treatment for addiction. I go to relax not as "treatment."

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

becket's picture

"I agree, people can be very nice and need to make a living"

This after your endless scourging of Bill Wilson and Dr. Bob? What a hypocrite. WHAT A HYPOCRITE YOU ARE.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

JR Harris's picture

"If your talk has been sane, quiet and full of human understanding, you have perhaps made a friend. " BB p.94, Working With Others

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

becket's picture

So you're admitting to being thoroughly disingenuous with Lily's mom? You want her to think you're empathetic and broad-minded?

God, you would go to any lengths. You are a study in prospect hunting. What a creepshow.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

JR Harris's picture

I am listening to what she has to say. I am not that learned on Drum Circles and she is bringing new information. Why would you say something like that? Could it be because the Big Book and being a member of Alcoholics Anonymous has made you this way?

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

becket's picture

Yes, she is bringing new information that, under any other circumstances, you would weep with laughter over! If Clara or alkieanon or I even brought up this subject - just the subject, not even our opinions of the subject - we would be heckled mercilessly for page after page of posts.

Don't pretend you're interested in this, JR Harris. You have no use for drumming or any other alternative therapies, and feigning inquisitiveness is reprehensible. This woman brought this information here to share, not to be catalogued as another target for you. The Big Book has not made me "this way". I learned through years of being deceived by liars far more skillful than you that someone's sudden, inexplicable interest is suspect.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

Clara's picture

Drum circles are wonderful! We have a full moon ceremony every month in the MB State Park. Yes, one of those dreaded park meetings I've discussed that work well! I'm glad to see it discussed because they are loving, enlightening and relaxing.

I think your observation is on target, Becket. I am sure that JR will be sure post the schedule for the meeting within about 60 seconds.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

JR Harris's picture

According to the Washington Post, Wolford was performing a service for about 25 people at Panther State Forest in McDowell County on Sunday morning. During his sermon, he laid the rattlesnake on the ground and it struck his thigh. Family members took him home to recover, but his condition worsened. He was pronounced dead upon arrival at nearby hospital on Sunday afternoon.

Source:http://news.discovery.com/human/snake-handler-wolford-120530.html

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

Lily's mom's picture

Hi becket believe me I am not being snowed by any means. An empathetic broad minded person would not have called these people witch doctors.I was actually very suprised by this persons willingness to listen but It was my hope by sharing information and knowledge that JR Harris might retract her witch doctor statement and not smear these peoples names. This doesn't seem to be the case. I like your quote by Francis Bacom :-)

Lily's mom

Clara's picture

Thank you for your information, Lily. Most people are probably unaware that many cultures have something such as this.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

JR Harris's picture

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

Lily's mom's picture

Thank you for sharing your experiences and posting here in support of drumming circles! How wonderful that it is held outside in a state park in Nature, Gods beautiful creation :-)

Lily's mom

Lily's mom's picture

Alot of people use drugs and or alcohol to relax don't you think your giving an addict a better chance at changing their lives if they can find other ways to relax? Tai Chi (moving meditation) can do this too. The Big Book suggest prayer and meditation. So if drumming in a drug free environment helps people to quiet their mind and meditate why not. I think if you offer them treatment and relaxation methods the addicted person has a better chance of moving forward with their life in a postitve way. Clearly AA isn't the only answer you of all people know that.

Lily's mom

JR Harris's picture

That is true, but for the most part the people on this site doesn't like the Big Book. The Big Book has just made the top 88 ‘Books That Shaped America’ from the Library of Congress along with the Wizard of OZ. I am really not making a joke here (even though it may seem it), but wouldn't standing around in a circle singing "Were off to see the Wizard, the wonderful Wizard of OZ....." cause the same type of euphoria you are talking about?

If you look on the left hand side under "New Forum Topics" you will see many current stories about the problems with the patients in the "recovery industry" doing extremely dangerous things. On all coasts of the US, rehabs, sober homes and AA meeting places are springing up at an alarming rate and they are not being kept under control. All of them want to get as big as possible and actively searching out new clients and members. Newport Beach is one as well as Nutley New Jersey and Miami, it is becoming a problem and as the CASA report from Columbia just pointed out, people aren't being treated correctly.

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

becket's picture

" people aren't being treated correctly."

This bothers you why? People and their desires and their choices for treatment do not interest you. Destroying AA is the only thing that interests you, according to you and the voluminous posts you make, stirring the pot, inciting hatred, fabricating stories and links between AA and crime, as if AA is designed to instruct people to commit those crimes.

I hope Lily's mom will go back through the blogs and find the ones that you instigated. I hope she reads enough of your posts to realize what a deeply contaminated agenda you have on this forum, JR Harris. I'm glad to see her come here and post something that is an alternative or an adjunct to any kind of treatment for substance abuse, and I'm glad she's standing her ground in the face of your slithering, smarmy "welcome" to the forum.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

JR Harris's picture

I don't understand, I thought you had found serenity, humility and happiness chanting Bill Wilson in church basements? I guess it didn't work, did it?

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

becket's picture

I have never on this forum claimed to have some superior serenity or humility or happiness. I am not a chanter, I do not attend AA meetings, I do not prospect hunt or sponsor anyone in or out of AA. So please try to absorb that if you would. And since I know you won't, because fabrication and outright lies are your stock in trade, we will move on to the next matter.

I'm sober, JR Harris. That's what matters. I've been in a lot of dangerous and illegal situations in my life and I am now living within the law and I'm sober over three decades. That counts, whether you like it or not. As a human being I have a right to my own emotions. When someone deliberately lies about me and paints a false picture of the way I live, yeah, it angers me. Are you going to tell me I'm not entitled to be angry? I don't hate you. But I certainly dislike your methods here. You're just not honest about anything. Ever.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

Lily's mom's picture

I was trying to understand where JR Harris was coming from but to be honest this blog and the name calling said enough. Becket I think you standing up for Lisa without even knowing her says alot about your character. I happen to be a drum circle facilitator myself so I know first hand how much it helps people. I have talked to Alumni at other treatment centers who have shared with me how much it helped them. Actually just had a Clinical Director contact me a few days ago and told me one of her alumni came back and shared with her that what really helped her was my drumming circle. Helped her make a spiritual connection and find peace within. Peace to you :-)

Lily's mom

JR Harris's picture

I do have one question though, is a voodoo ritual with drums the same type of spiritual awakening as a drumming circle?

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

Lily's mom's picture

I have no idea what a voodoo ritual involves I do not practice voodoo. I can tell you my drumming circles don't look anything like the picture posted above.

Lily's mom

JR Harris's picture

This is from wikipedia, a readers digest version, I can look further if you want, but is this similar?

In Haiti, Vodou ceremonies and drumming are inextricably linked. While drumming does exist in other contexts in the country, by far the richest traditions come from this distinctly Haitian religion. As such, before one can come to play, appreciate, and understand this music one should view it in its religious context. Haitian Vodou (sometimes referred to as Vodon) is a henotheistic religion, although viewed by many Haitians as a cultural practice, widely practiced in the country of Haiti. Vodou as practiced in urban centres in Haiti and some cities in North America (especially New York) is a ritualistic faith system that involves ceremonies that consist of singing, drumming and dancing. While certain aspects of this religion may share the same roots, it is completely contrary to the stereotype of black magic, witch doctors, pins in dolls, and zombies portrayed by New Orleans style Voodoo (a bastardization of the name).

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haitian_vodou_drumming

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

Lily's mom's picture

Just drumming and being still in a meditative state. I see the where you are heading with this but I have to say I disagree.
So let me get this right you can do a "fire" dance and drum on the beach yet you call into question drumming circles in treatment centers where people are in a sober environment? May I ask what you do to keep yourself "spiritually fit" and sober?

Lily's mom

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