If you're using pills, you're not sober or living the AA way of life.

avogadno's picture
Submitted by avogadno on Thu, 06/21/2012 - 07:36

"The AA who takes pills is trading the devil for the witch. If you are using pills, openly or secretly, don't try to convince anyone that your sober or living th AA way of life. It just aint so."

~1948 Works Publishing, Inc

http://www.aaseny.org/archives/works_publishing/sedatives.pdf

Alcoholics Anonymous members pretty much say whatever they want. The open floor, no cross talk, meeting style gives all members a platform to speak their opinions to the group. Often times that it is a personal opinion and not the position of Alcoholics Anonymous is not specified. Such sensitive subjects such as medications and being really "sober" are often preached about in meetings. As to whether or not it represents AA as a whole, it doesn't matter. There is no one in charge of meetings to counter an over-aggressive speaker that gives advice about what meds are OK to take or not. This can (and has) led to problems over the years. People have even died or become quite ill after making a medical decision based upon an AA group's opinion about medical issues.

Sometimes people think that they shouldn't take medications prescribed by a doctor and this can lead to serious health issues. Because this is a highly sensitive and dangerous subject that has caused much controversy over the years, I think that the med issue should be part of each reading of every meeting. It's irresponsible that the readings pertain to repetitious and boring banter that is part of the main text of alcoholics anonymous, and nothing of important issues regarding health and safety. To me it shows that AA is more interested in selling/promoting AA rather than offering respectable and sound advice, and making sure that the opposite doesn't occur in meetings.

Comments

patti

Thu, 06/21/2012 - 18:58

Becket,
you are actually writing that anyone else has a large mouth. Know thyself. Wow are you lacking self awareness & not keeping your own side of the street clean. Not surprising just typical stepper mentality & behavior. And although you know everything like most AA members you are wrong about me being uneducated. Your wrong a lot, what else is new or different. Although you are exceptionally insightful & have unique & original thoughts & words to bestow upon us daily. May peace be with you instead of so much hostility. Let it go that others hate AA. Its okay if people have different opinions than yours. good night.

patti

becket's picture

becket

Thu, 06/21/2012 - 19:11

Did you say something?

We're done.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

Trisha K.'s picture

Trisha K.

Fri, 06/22/2012 - 10:08

patti, is your name Sharon McCarthy? Did Wayne Kernochan drag you over here?

“The more I traveled the more I realized that fear makes strangers of people who should be friends.”
Shirley MacLaine

NoAAUK's picture

NoAAUK

Fri, 06/22/2012 - 11:17

"Good luck with that, Army of One."

Theres a vast army of us, idiot stepper............your death cults days ARE numbered

......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11

becket's picture

becket

Fri, 06/22/2012 - 12:06

Zzzzz . . .

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

alkieanon's picture

alkieanon

Fri, 06/22/2012 - 15:24

NoAAUK says: "Good luck with that, Army of One." Drop and give me twenty. LOL!

"At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, ...." Matthew 24:10

becket's picture

becket

Thu, 06/21/2012 - 17:33

"The days of getting away with much of anything are over."

I guess the politicians and the clergy and the rock stars and the nubile actresses didn't get that particular memo.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

patti

Thu, 06/21/2012 - 17:51

they get busted all the time. used to get away with a lot. those days are over. its only a matter of when & AA is going to shrivel into a has been.

patti

becket's picture

becket

Thu, 06/21/2012 - 17:58

Not only are those days NOT over, but as long as money talks, they are here to stay.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

patti

Thu, 06/21/2012 - 18:27

wealthy & powerful people get busted all the time now compared to the past. not as often as the poor & downtrodden but the days of getting away with anything & everything if you are rich & powerful are over. will money still talk? sure. but there is a lot more money in writing tell all's than in hush money. does AA have money & power? Definitely. Most abusers eventually mess with the wrong person. Every dog has its day. AA is going to mess with the wrong person. Its going to happen.

patti

becket's picture

becket

Fri, 06/22/2012 - 11:02

" . . . there is a lot more money in writing tell all's than in hush money."

Bullshit. This is speculation based on a fairy tale vision of the publishing industry. Any accusation made in a "tell all" has to be corroborated or the writer risks libel. Libel per se involves statements so vicious that malice is assumed and does not require a proof of intent to get an award of general damages. How would you go about verifying the sad tales of woe from your experiences in AA? Does your idea involve digital documentation without consent? There's another problem. Do you think a publishing house magically accepts manuscripts by unknowns and drops hundreds of thousands of dollars on print ads and promotional events like book signings, where in conversation with a customer the author would add to his problems the risk of slander?

"Every dog has its day." "Takes one to know one." "Let a smile be your umbrella." You can't count on a platitude to make your world go round.

http://dictionary.law.com/Default.aspx?selected=1153

[ I'm ready for my thrashing, Pennywise ;-) ]

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

patti

Fri, 06/22/2012 - 13:01

Becket,
the person or people who write the tell all or alls will have their papers in order & have all their ducks in a row. You know this. All your imaginary issues won't be issues. Everything will be in place, be legal & be good to go. You know that.

patti

becket's picture

becket

Fri, 06/22/2012 - 15:53

I have no imaginary issues, patti. I would love nothing more than to see your expose geniuses do time.

You can't tell me what I know because you don't know what I know. And I frankly don't give a shit about your mission.

You know that.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

msafrany

Thu, 06/21/2012 - 12:07

You are not 'really' sober unless you work the steps. Failure to do so is most certainly signing your own death warrant, just like Bill W himself wrote in the 12x12. The 12 steps are the only path to true sobriety. isn't it great being so spiritual and in tune with God? Dopes!

Clara's picture

Clara

Thu, 06/21/2012 - 12:27

I personally enjoyed the steps. If something can help you clean up some ickiness in your life, why not do it and get on to a fresh start?

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

JR Harris's picture

JR Harris

Thu, 06/21/2012 - 12:33

We don't care about the Steps of the cult of Alcoholics Anonymous. I am still waiting for the GSR of the Westside Happy Hour Group in El Paso to call me. They hold their pagan rituals at Gratitude West - 225 Derby, Sunland Park, NM (575-589-1058)

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

becket's picture

becket

Thu, 06/21/2012 - 12:58

"We don't care about the Steps of the cult of Alcoholics Anonymous."

On the contrary! You care more about the steps of AA than the average member of AA. You keep in on your front burner and tend it and stir it and season and embellish it and contaminate it and regurgitate it and frame it and hang it on your walls and package it in razor wire and mock it and jeer at it. NO ONE thinks about the steps of AA more than you. NO ONE.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

patti

Thu, 06/21/2012 - 15:47

Beckett,
no one sweats what JR thinks, feels or writes more than you. NO ONE. Why do you sweat what he or any one else feels, thinks or writes on this forum. Its part of your daily routine.

patti

becket's picture

becket

Thu, 06/21/2012 - 15:56

You think I break a sweat any time I see his trite, corny little avatar up there? You think it worries me that this moron is at large? He cancels himself out because he is so dis-informative even a pygmy could correct him. He's a benign presence here. I just like to point out to him his inaccuracies. It's like a crossword puzzle, but less satisfying.

You are also part of my daily routine, patti. And when I see your this&that&theotherthing&we&us&thetimeisnow I am amused and called to respond to your faux confidence. Another exercise in writing; nothing more. Good luck with your flaming campaign. Keep pointing that finger. Someday you may discover a genuine target.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

patti

Thu, 06/21/2012 - 16:26

Beckett,
you sweat, sweat & sweat all the time. you get very upset & angry a lot. its probably good that you take out all that anger & hostility on a forum in writing. actually JR is very accurate & informative. no matter how many times you write a lie its still a lie. you definitely sweat JR & other forum members every day all the time. you can keep lying & lying but it won't change the truth about AA & NA & their spin off groups being dangerous cults with brain washed members. doesn't matter how much you deny it or how much you argue or attempt to belittle ex members. everything eventually comes out in the wash.

patti

becket's picture

becket

Thu, 06/21/2012 - 17:25

Oh, go eat your own young, patti.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

NoAAUK's picture

NoAAUK

Fri, 06/22/2012 - 11:24

"I personally enjoyed the steps. If something can help you clean up some ickiness in your life,"

So what ickiness in your life did the steps clean up, can you be specific, or are you just lying again.....lying stepper.

Did God remove your shortcoming or something?

......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11

Clara's picture

Clara

Fri, 06/22/2012 - 16:31

I have been specific, NoAA. If you missed it under this name, you probably got it under another.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

becket's picture

becket

Fri, 06/22/2012 - 16:59

If you're going to ask a person if she's lying and then turn around and tell her that she's lying, what the fuck do you want here? Do you want people to sympathize with you over your fairly routine trek out of the dependency woods, as if you've got everybody beat on their drama? Do you want to give voice to fundamental observations about things that disturb you about the 12 steps? What is it that you want? You just want to be a prick? Success.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

Clara's picture

Clara

Fri, 06/22/2012 - 18:34

And it was 30 years ago. Move on, kind sir!

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

rainbow's picture

rainbow

Sat, 06/30/2012 - 02:39

A new start is great, I totally agree! That's what I signed up for all along. Clean up and move on. Unfortunately, there are some sponsors out there in the world who suggest/desire/pressure/demand/ask/want their sponsees to keep rehashing ickiness over & over & over, even if things don't need to be rehashed, and even if there isn't anymore ickiness in one's life. I feel it possibly prevents forward momentum and growth, unfortunately, and keeps the sponsees looking back at the past, instead of moving forward and on to a new start.

http://www.pickthebrain.com/blog/4-simple-ways-to-focus-on-the-positive/
"If you read any personal development advice, you’ll rather quickly come across the idea that it’s important to focus on positive aspects of life. Rather than dwelling on what could be better or what you feel you should be doing, you’re encouraged to pay attention to the areas which are already going well.

The concept makes sense: by concentrating on what’s good, we’re likely to be encouraged and motivated, and we’ll automatically start looking for ways to get more of the same. The problem, though, is how to focus on what’s positive in our lives – when it’s easy to dwell on mistakes and regrets."

Obviously, my Sponsor-Picker was broken, huh?

This has nothing to do with medication. I apologize. I tried to go back and delete this but can't. I'm ON Medication, does that count? :)

becket's picture

becket

Thu, 06/21/2012 - 12:56

What does this have to do with taking medication, msafrany?

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

msafrany

Thu, 06/21/2012 - 13:08

The title says you are not sober or living the AA way of life if you are taking pills. I added to this by saying you are not living the AA way of life if you are not working the steps. Clara even enjoyed working the steps. Do not question my wisdom. I am sober over 25 years and have all kinds of AA approved sayings memorized. I am the UberGuru.

becket's picture

becket

Thu, 06/21/2012 - 14:01

What are you ranting on about?

Howdja get that extra 4 or 5 years sobriety overnight?

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

msafrany

Thu, 06/21/2012 - 17:40

Actually it was a typo. Then when I noticed it, I decided to leave it there to prove once again that Clara = Becket = Marietta Davis.
I have over 22 yrs clean and sober, but was going to type 20 yrs. It doesn't matter, in the right group you can have 3 yrs sober and be the all-knowing and wise guru. As long as you can sweet talk that Wilson shit it's all fair game.

becket's picture

becket

Thu, 06/21/2012 - 17:47

Riiiiiight.

It's all fair game to you because you can't play with any integrity.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

patti

Thu, 06/21/2012 - 18:35

Becket,
can't play with any integrity. is writing that someone should eat their young playing nice or with integrity? Not.

patti

becket's picture

becket

Fri, 06/22/2012 - 19:47

I am absolutely sincere in what I've written. It may be harsh, but I stand by it. There is no loss of integrity in that, considering the target.

It could be just good advice.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

patti

Thu, 06/21/2012 - 18:47

Becket,
blame the victim!!! Wilson has you well trained, Billwashed & promoting the cult. My children deserve to be attacked by you on this forum because of me. Its my fault you are abusive & drug my kids into this. Yeah, okay. You are pathetic.

patti

becket's picture

becket

Thu, 06/21/2012 - 18:51

You cannot be so fucking ignorant as to actually believe you are a victim. Man, you people love the concept of circular thinking: look in the goddamn mirror, patti. If you are that weak as to lie down in the face of opposition, then to hell with you.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

patti

Thu, 06/21/2012 - 19:09

Becket,
you know you have to know your writing that I should eat my young was way out of line. even for you. even you are not that ignorant. then you blamed me for your out of line writing. typical stepper & abuser behavior. blame the victim. men beat up women all the time, because the woman just made them so mad! it was her fault. female victims in AA who get sexually exploited & abused did something wrong & had a part in it. the vicious abuse cycle goes on & on. abuse has been shut down all over the place. on the job, @ churches, domestic & child & sexual abuse victims have advocates all over the place. laws exist that didn't use to exist to protect abuse victims. dead beat parents are tracked down & go to jail if they do not pay child support. police departments have special victim departments & trained officers. but in AA abuse is accepted & goes on all the time & the victim always gets blamed by members asking what was the victims part in it. That you support & defend a group that in this day & age still condones abuse & blaming the victim pretty much sums up what you are about & who you are. Good night.

patti

becket's picture

becket

Thu, 06/21/2012 - 19:12

We're done.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

DeConstructor's picture

DeConstructor

Thu, 06/21/2012 - 19:17

and you certainly deserved a good bitch slapping. Perhaps it is time to drag someone to a meeting.

becket's picture

becket

Thu, 06/21/2012 - 19:19

It you can find it, shove it, DeConman.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

becket's picture

becket

Thu, 06/21/2012 - 21:33

I'm up for that. Who's gonna do the bitch slapping?

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

Clara's picture

Clara

Thu, 06/21/2012 - 18:18

You would still be wrong, MSA. I don't get the obsession with this, but that's okay. More will be revealed...

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

avogadno's picture

avogadno

Thu, 06/21/2012 - 13:14

Members of AA have historically projected their opinions about using medications onto others by way of sharing during meetings. Unfortunately there are some warped views and whether or not it is the official position of Alcoholics Anonymous doesn't matter. It gets presented as such. One reason is because of the lack of regulating the meetings and letting people "lecture" to others without any correction. For example, a guru can say "If you take any prescribed medications such as a Benzo or Barbiturate then you aren't clean". This information is allowed to be absorbed by anyone listening at a meeting without it being correctly countered. Narcotics Anonymous holds their meetings in the same fashion. I've been to numerous meetings in both groups where I heard members speak their opinion as if it were obtained from official literature.

Pro Empowerment!
Truth about AA: http://orange-papers.org/menu1.html
Expose AA: http://www.expaa.org/

dorak nob's picture

dorak nob

Thu, 06/21/2012 - 13:18

i found AA a great place to score just about any pill i wanted, very generous people

avogadno's picture

avogadno

Thu, 06/21/2012 - 13:33

yeah Dorak, meetings were a great place to find a connection. I've heard shares that would hint about who was holding, etc. Same with NA which clearly asks in their opening readings not to discuss that or bring any paraphernalia to the meetings.

Pro Empowerment!
Truth about AA: http://orange-papers.org/menu1.html
Expose AA: http://www.expaa.org/

Trisha K.'s picture

Trisha K.

Thu, 06/21/2012 - 16:28

We are talking about drunks and addicts, right....lmao!

“The more I traveled the more I realized that fear makes strangers of people who should be friends.”
Shirley MacLaine

Clara's picture

Clara

Thu, 06/21/2012 - 14:57

Why would you ask anyone for their meds? That's junkie behavior, IMO. No different than someone coming into my house and taking my dog's meds when he was ill. And the AA shouldn't be giving it to you. I felt the same way when someone was asking a party for her subutox. Why would anyonein recovery need to be told how wrong that is?

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

Persephone In Exile's picture

Persephone In Exile

Thu, 06/21/2012 - 15:48

LOL Dorak....yeah, if you want a connection, go to meetings. That was, oddly enough, one of the main reasons I stopped going to them.

http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/

patti

Thu, 06/21/2012 - 15:52

Dorak nob,
Lots of dope & pills available @ the meetings & lots of people to go out drinking with after the meetings. So many attendees needed a drink or to get high after that depressing & disturbing mind fuck or were motivated to drink or get high from the boredom of some old timer telling his/her story for the thousandth time. Yes AA & NA definitely cause relapses like JoJoSan!

patti

rainbow's picture

rainbow

Sat, 06/30/2012 - 03:01

I found AA a great place to score just about any kind of pot I wanted. Very generous people indeed. #1 cash crop for this county.

Clara's picture

Clara

Thu, 06/21/2012 - 14:44

I would make a correction if I heard that in my presence. That is an opinion. I might even take the person being addressed aside and show him in LS. I might even go to the person that said that and done the same thing.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

Pages