Leaving AA

Submitted by aderville on Mon, 06/18/2012 - 19:50

Forums:

Hi all,

I don't have many people to talk to about what I'm going through. I have a few friends that have left AA and they have been helpful, but I think that more help is always a good thing.

I've been sober and in AA for 7 years now, picked up that heavy chip just a few weeks ago. Over the past year I have cut my meetings back to just one per week, don't talk to my sponsor much and have begun to drift away. Life is good and full and full of meaning... I have a 10-year-old daughter, I work full time at a job I love and am in school full time.

I stumbled onto the orange papers a couple of weeks ago and haven't stopped reading and researching since. I knew Bill W was a whack and that he took LSD and had severe depression, but like most people in AA I bought into the idea that "It's the message, not the messenger" that is important. Now I am listening closely in the meeting I go to and really hearing the dogma full force. Bill W's crazy dogma.

A lot of the program didn't sit well with me. I have never been a comfortable sponsor (even though I'm going in to counseling!) and the girls that have asked me don't hang out for more than a couple weeks, a couple phone calls. I stopped taking my daughter to meetings with me a couple years ago, I didn't want her exposed to all the sickness "shared" in the rooms. AA is a religion, no doubt. And if it was a religion that I didn't want my daughter exposed to... Well, what sort of religion is that?

(Apparently this is going to be long... sorry about that!)

I went to sobered up and joined AA when I was 22. I abused alcohol, did a lot of binge drinking, along with all my friends at the time. We drank, we were young, it was fun. It started not being fun and I got "sick and tired of being sick and tired." When I told my mom I was an alcoholic she told me I better start going to those meetings... She grew up with alcoholic parents and in our family, if you want to get sober you go to AA. However, mom never really bought the 12 steps, she never joined alanon of ACoA.

I did the deal, full on. 90 meetings in 90 days (more like 140, I was going morning, noon and night and sometimes late night), got a sponsor, read the BB, worked the steps and things really did seem to be going well. I noticed the seasons change.. After about 18 months my bottom fell out and I had a breakdown and was subsequently diagnosed with bipolar disorder and generalized anxiety. I got pissed at AA, felt like it was useless and if I was doing everything I was supposed to do and wan't "happy joyous and free" then what the hell was the point? I didn't go to meetings for months and didn't drink either. After another 6 months I had another breakdown. I saw this breakdown as a sign that I couldn't just go to AA to be sane and happy and I couldn't just take my meds and be sane and happy, I had to do both.

So for the past 4 years I have done both. Been an active member of AA and taken my meds as prescribed. Then doubts started to creep in. Like, maybe that second breakdown happened because we hadn't yet found a good combination of drugs to balance my brain? Who said I was sick because I was resentful of god? I reevaluated part of my story about my bottom that I tell all the time, how I broke up with an amazing boyfriend because he got in the way of my drinking. No. In actuality I broke up with him because I almost cheated on him and I do not cheat on boyfriends. I didn't trust myself not to hurt him, but I didn't break up with him so I could drink more.

And how much was self medicating in an attempt to counteract my depression and mania and the ever present anxiety? AA says that feeling "restless, irritable and discontent" means I am suffering from a spiritual malady and can only be treated with prayer and with intensively working with another alcoholic. That didn't work. The xanax my doctor prescribed me does.

I don't discuss my meds at meetings, at all. I don't want to argue the validity of my sobriety with people that do not live with my brain and do not know how I feel.

I've had crazy sponsors-- ones my best friend and I joked that could just be replaced by a sponsor-bot... pull the tab in the back and it would spout out AA slogans, "have you prayed about it?" "sounds like you need a meeting"-- and I have had amazing sponsors that encourage me to find my own solution rather than giving me a canned response.

In several meetings I attended and was a home group member of we would have business meetings and discuss what people were appropriate to call on... Only members with at least a year of sobriety that would "carry the message, not the mess." Honesty was rarely encouraged in that sense.

I'm fed up with it and am convinced that it is indeed a cult. And I'm completely torn about leaving because some of my best friends are die hard AAs and aren't likely to continue a friendship with me if I "go back out." I may drink, I probably will. I truly believe that I drank because I was in pain and was attempting to treat my mental illnesses, I do not believe I am an alcoholic of the hopeless variety. My mom and I have discussed this at length and she supports me on whatever I decide to do. As do my friends that have left AA (that are incidentally living full and happy lives, and are not plagued by jails, institutions and death).

So, sorry to dump on you guys. I enjoy reading everything I find here as well as in the orange papers and other studies and books I have come across. It's refreshing to hear the truth for once.

aderville

patti

Tue, 06/19/2012 - 04:16

Alderville,
good for you. Like most AA or NA members you woke up & realized its a waste of time & an ugly & weird little cult. the trolls on this forum will be attacking. there is another forum for ex steppers, recovering from recovery.com You can join it, no trolls allowed. Best of luck & best wishes to & for you.

patti

live_free_or_die's picture

live_free_or_die

Tue, 06/19/2012 - 05:39

What books have you read?

Alcoholics Anonymous: MyNotGodHasItCovered®
http://www.expaa.org/
http://bereanresearch.com/
http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/
NOT AA:
Rational Recovery, SOS, HAMS
http://alcoholabusesolutions.com/

aderville

Tue, 06/19/2012 - 09:34

I've read the new addition of cult or cure so far. I read the first edition when I joined aa and it said it had characteristics of a ” benign cult.” I figured that

want so bad... But an organization that says you are doomed to an alcoholic death and jails and institutions isn't very benign. Of course, they use the out that if that doesn't happen then you aren't really an alcoholic. Pretty slick.

live_free_or_die's picture

live_free_or_die

Tue, 06/19/2012 - 10:44

I have yet to read the cult or cure book. I need to.

I have read:
Amy Lee Coy's book, "From Death Do I Part"
Hank Hayes' "You've Been Lied To"
Jack Trimpey's "Rational Recovery"

and of course, "The Orange Papers" by A. Orange

Welcome to the "New & Improved" you, aderville.

I have also read the Big Book and two biographies of Bill W, but I would never recommend them, other than for entertainment purposes.

Alcoholics Anonymous: MyNotGodHasItCovered®
http://www.expaa.org/
http://bereanresearch.com/
http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/
NOT AA:
Rational Recovery, SOS, HAMS
http://alcoholabusesolutions.com/

gigi

Tue, 06/19/2012 - 06:19

Welcome, aderville. It sounds to me that you are well on your way to doing what is best and healthy for you, whatever that may be. Best of luck to you in all things.
It was refreshing to see your post here this morning amidst all of the usual chaos. :)

"If I forget who I am, I am myself. If I remember who I am, I am you."

Clara's picture

Clara

Tue, 06/19/2012 - 11:23

Welcome, Aderville. Yes, it might be that if you are leaving the fellowship to go drink... some AAs will choose to stay in the background so that you can find your way. There are other ways to stay sober if that is what you want. If leaving because you want to drink... well, I guess you just have to go experience that for yourself so you can see what might be wrong with it.

There is a great book that I l ove... The 12 Step Buddist. I also found great help through the book 12 Steps of the Buddha's Path.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

JR Harris's picture

JR Harris

Tue, 06/19/2012 - 11:31

Tactic of humiliation and sly suggestions. I'd just ignore it. This Stepper is from the El Paso Klan, don't give "IT" any information.

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

aderville

Tue, 06/19/2012 - 13:53

The buddhist way through the 12 steps, the chocholic's way through the 12 steps... It all comes back to the one size fits all steps that end with recruiting more members. I've never made a good recruiter. :)

Clara's picture

Clara

Tue, 06/19/2012 - 14:50

Did you say chocolate? There is my next vice...

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

avogadno's picture

avogadno

Tue, 06/19/2012 - 11:33

Hi Aderville,

Welcome to the forum. I experienced some difficulty when leaving AA because I also had friends in the program that assumed I would "relapse" because I ddin't want to be a part of their bullshit program. I was worried about being lonely but I found that many of the relationships were conditional and based upon false love. No need for that in my life...However some stuck by my choice, and I found who my real friends were. I also realized that leaving didn't mean using. I was in control of that :=)

Pro Empowerment!
Truth about AA: http://orange-papers.org/menu1.html
Expose AA: http://www.expaa.org/

Clara's picture

Clara

Tue, 06/19/2012 - 14:54

It's one thing to leave the fellowship... It is another to leave because you want to rejoin the drinking world. I would never stand in the way of that. But deciding to leave AA is not a reason to no longer be friends. We had some that still would go on boating parties with us.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

Persephone In Exile's picture

Persephone In Exile

Tue, 06/19/2012 - 11:43

Hi Aderville! Welcome. It's important to find your own way in this world, I'm convinced of that.

http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/

dorak nob's picture

dorak nob

Tue, 06/19/2012 - 14:38

the orange papers have a way of making it very hard to ever be in a meeting without wanting to puke, I think you have served your time and you can leave now. Glad to have you step over the edge to freedom.

Clara's picture

Clara

Tue, 06/19/2012 - 14:52

I never experienced the "meetings forever" thought. It actually became more of a chance to meet up with friends and to find out where they are at with life.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

aderville

Tue, 06/19/2012 - 15:08

”meeting makers make it”
” what we real have is a daily reprieve contingent upon our spiritual maintenance ”
” once an alcoholic, always an alcoholic”

I have been going to a fairly hip and young meeting for the past couple years and it is drilled into you that if you go away, drift away, whatever, that you will die and awful alcoholic death.

I may drink. I may not. I haven't decided and am seeing a counselor, talking to friends and becoming educated on the religion I have spent the last 7 years participating in.

For the first time in years when the chairperson asked if anyone was willing to sponsor a newcomer, I didn't raise my hand. My good friend sitting next to me asked if I wanted to get drink. Sponsorship, meeting attendance, fellowshipping, service, working the steps, more service...

I don't know, I'm tired of it.

Clara's picture

Clara

Tue, 06/19/2012 - 15:54

I have often said that I believe that the BB was written for worst case scenarios and people have have different degrees of alcoholic behaviors. I am sure that many people come to AA, get what they need and mosey on their paths. Others need more than they needed, and hung around longer, even for life. I did go to alot of meetings, but not because I thought or was every tod that I would die if I didn't. I've relocated away from my home group and find the meetings here lacking in comparison. In fact, I've said often on the forum that I probably would never have joined if I had come to AA in El Paso first. I go to meetings in New Mexico. I am sure that you will find what is perfect for you.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

massive's picture

massive

Fri, 06/22/2012 - 00:43

AMy Lee Coy's book From Death DO I part was my first book that I loved. Stanton Peele's Book Addiction Proof your child was next. Great for parents.

Hank Hayes Book I read last fall. I started going to Smart Recovery while I still attended AA the last 4 months.

You will find out who are really your friends when you leave. There might be a few. I found the freind thing in AA is an illusion.

It was a process..."sorry for the lingo" LOL. But it was ...deprogramming for me. Reading and blogging on ST was great. Reading OP was the rabbit hole for me. Attending mixed meetings in West LA was "eye opening" and very disturbing. Huge amounts of sexual predators un checked and let to do their thing. Bad bad stuff is happening in AA and NA in big and small cities around the country.

enough for now. Welcome.

Massive

NoAAUK's picture

NoAAUK

Wed, 06/20/2012 - 13:01

Welcome, I left the cult 30 years ago and I am still alive, so are 3 others from our original group that I have recently had contact with. Jails, institutions and death are just scaremongering cult tactics, nothing more. All three of us now drink ok.

Ive been back to the stepper cult a numbe of times during the last 30 years, never for more than about 2 weeks at a time, I really couldn't stomach any more.

If you want to drink again I would suggest you read Responsible Drinking as Moderation Management Approach to Problem Drinking

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss/188-2559116-8879322?url=search-al...

and the HAMS Network book How to Change your Drinking

http://hamsnetwork.org/book/

or join either or both organisations for a time, they will not expect you to stay for life unless you want to to help others.

......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11

massive's picture

massive

Fri, 06/22/2012 - 00:43

HI there No AAUK! Howz it? :)

Massive

NoAAUK's picture

NoAAUK

Wed, 06/20/2012 - 13:04

Welcome, I left the cult 30 years ago and I am still alive, so are 3 others from our original group in Mansfield UK that I have recently had contact with. Jails, institutions and death are just scaremongering cult tactics, nothing more. All three of us now drink ok.

Ive been back to the stepper cult a number of times during the last 30 years, never for more than about 2 weeks at a time, I really couldn't stomach any more.

If you want to drink again I would suggest you read Responsible Drinking as Moderation Management Approach to Problem Drinking

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss/188-2559116-8879322?url=search-al...

and the HAMS Network book How to Change your Drinking

http://hamsnetwork.org/book/

or join either or both organisations for a time, they will not expect you to stay for life unless you want to to help others

http://www.moderation.org/

http://hamsnetwork.org/

They both have online networks

......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11

SPK77's picture

SPK77

Thu, 06/21/2012 - 15:03

I have just made the decision to leave as well.

SPK77's picture

SPK77

Thu, 06/21/2012 - 15:06

About about month ago I found the orange-papers. Thank goodness. I picked up my 3 year medallion last week and spoke at a meeting on Wednesday and found that I could no longer continue a lie. I came into AA literally sobbing and defeated. Had been on antabuse, paxil, xynax, and knew I needed to stop drinking. AA worked initially. I found a sponsor who brought me through the steps forced me to pray to a Christian God I didn't believe in and was completely miserable. I went on, found a new sponsor who I still believe a good man...but have found problems in the doctrine and cult nature of AA from the get go. I finally feel like I am not alone. That there are others like me that keep sober and are either Atheist or Agnostic. That AA is not the only way and that if I don't make three meetings a week that I wont die an alcoholic death in a gutter somewhere. This is the first time I have felt hope since my initial days in the program of AA. I can not stand hearing the same drunk logs over and over, being told to pray to my higher power to solve all my problems. Oh yeah, and I was 13th stepped as well, but by an older woman who had "good sobriety," I later found out that her four previous boy toys had all gone back "out." I'm thankful to still have my sobriety in tact and look forward to contributing to the many interesting discussions I have read on this blog.

massive's picture

massive

Fri, 06/22/2012 - 00:45

spk77- welcome!

Massive

massive's picture

massive

Fri, 06/22/2012 - 00:31

Aderville- be ware there are some bad pro AA trolls here that do not care how you feel and are worse then steppers in meetings.

I left last may after many years. www.blogtalkradio.com/saferecovery is my radio show. I created it as I left . you might enjoy the episode I did with Gunthar on Chapter 5 where we disect it. Stinkin-thinkin is an older site that has all th eold archives of peoples stories as they left AA. although it might be down right now.

I created two sites to help me and others who were 13 stepped www.stop13stepinaa.wordpress.com . I tried to make it safer in AA but was shut down except for my old home group, but even in the end I realized I heard all the literature as complete BS.

I am glad to see you here. I had Stinkin thinkin to blog on and get support when I left. The site was moderated, This forum is not so again be careful. the trolls here are ruthless, mean, and disgusting to nice new blogger like you and spk77.

Again there are many stories including mine of how we left AA. www.leavingaa.com

Take care.

Massive