The safety problems in AA and NA are starting to be getting more attention!
Are You Safe in an Alcoholics Anonymous Meeting?
Written by Laura Tompkins May 17th 2012
How many steps are there? Twelve, right? Wrong. There are Thirteen. "Thirteenth-stepping" is a euphemistic term used among members of Alcoholics Anonymous (AA) to refer to people (particularly men) who target new, more vulnerable members (typically women) for dates or sex.
Previous research suggests that women frequently experience sexual harassment in 12 step meetings.
Just the fact the term "thirteenth-stepping" exists serves as a warning.
Since thousands of convicted felons are mandated to AA by the US courts, this warning must be heeded.
Entire article-
http://pacificpalisades.patch.com/blog_posts/are-you-safe-in-an-alcoholi...
Comments
avogadno
Sun, 05/20/2012 - 15:38
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Sharing personal sexual
Sharing personal sexual issues does happen, but you are right it does not happen all of time. It's not to say that all addicts that reach out to AA for help are going to have the same problems. Some are pressured, some are not. I think that most people are good, and the same goes for AA and sponsorship. What's important is that it doesn't get out of control and to note that this does occur because it can. It's very easy when there isn't any accountability. No oversight for meetings and sponsorship allows for the worst to occur. Take Scott Gordon Reynolds. He murdered his sponsor in front of everyone at a meeting because the sponsor took it upon himself to share the sexual secrets of Reynolds to the group. His sponsor was an asshol, that should have been schooled about sponsorship. Reynolds also should have been able to go to someone for help instead of taking the situation in his own hands.
Pro Empowerment!
Truth about AA: http://orange-papers.org/menu1.html
Expose AA: http://www.expaa.org/
Clara
Sun, 05/20/2012 - 18:15
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All the more reason to do it
All the more reason to do it as the BB suggests.
Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.
Trisha K.
Sun, 05/20/2012 - 15:58
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Avo, you said that you were experinced with AA/NA.
Which is it??? Because what you write seems to me to be right out of the "Twilight Zone".
“The more I traveled the more I realized that fear makes strangers of people who should be friends.”
Shirley MacLaine
AntiDenial
Sun, 05/20/2012 - 14:44
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Thank you JR & Penny
Thank you for clearing that up. It is 101 12 step knowledge. I know that and I am not an AA member.
It is such a perverted practice. It is even in 12 step literature for teens to disclose to ANOTHER member. It is in black and white proof.
Criminals In Alcoholics Anonymous and Narcotics Anonymous
www.nadaytona.org
Trisha K.
Sun, 05/20/2012 - 14:53
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JR and Penny did not clear up anything.
One has never been a member of AA (not even addicted) and the other had two weeks of experince.....please AD you are just as lost as you ever were.
The blind leading the blind....lmao!!
“The more I traveled the more I realized that fear makes strangers of people who should be friends.”
Shirley MacLaine
Pennywise
Sun, 05/20/2012 - 15:10
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I have been an active member
I have been an active member of AA for years.
"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid."
Trisha K.
Sun, 05/20/2012 - 15:59
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Riggghhhtttt......
I can see your activity...lmao!!!
“The more I traveled the more I realized that fear makes strangers of people who should be friends.”
Shirley MacLaine
Pennywise
Sun, 05/20/2012 - 16:04
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Ha ha. But it's true.
Ha ha. But it's true. Technically, I am eligible to be a sponsor and go on prospect hunts to prisons.
"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid."
Trisha K.
Sun, 05/20/2012 - 16:09
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"Technically, I am eligible to be a sponsor"
I must of missed something along the way. Penny you really don't know...lmao!!
“The more I traveled the more I realized that fear makes strangers of people who should be friends.”
Shirley MacLaine
Pennywise
Sun, 05/20/2012 - 16:11
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Suit yourself if you don't
Suit yourself if you don't want to believe me.
"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid."
Trisha K.
Sun, 05/20/2012 - 16:18
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I am not questioning your honesty.
I am questioning your choice of words and the thought process behind them.
“The more I traveled the more I realized that fear makes strangers of people who should be friends.”
Shirley MacLaine
Pennywise
Sun, 05/20/2012 - 16:37
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What do you question? It's
What do you question? It's all accurate.
"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid."
Trisha K.
Sun, 05/20/2012 - 16:48
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"Technically, I am eligible to be a sponsor"
How is eligibility determined in your opinion. IMO, helping another alcoholic is something that you feel compelled to do not instructed.
“The more I traveled the more I realized that fear makes strangers of people who should be friends.”
Shirley MacLaine
Pennywise
Sun, 05/20/2012 - 16:59
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Well, it depends on the group
Well, it depends on the group, although I think AAWS offers suggestions. Basically in my home group, to be a sponsor, you need to have worked all 12 Steps and have be entirely and continuously sober for at least the last 12 months. To prospect hunt in prisons, jails, or institutions, you don't need to have worked all 12 Steps, but you do need to have been entirely and continuously sober for at least 12 months.
"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid."
gigi
Sun, 05/20/2012 - 17:01
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In B2B groups, you do the
In B2B groups, you do the steps immediately and are supposed to start sponsoring people right away if not sooner. I started taking people through the steps at 3 months sober. How ridiculous is that?
"If I forget who I am, I am myself. If I remember who I am, I am you."
Pennywise
Sun, 05/20/2012 - 17:24
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WOW! What does B2B mean?
WOW! What does B2B mean? Back to basics? But yeah, that shows how different it can be depending on the group. It also illustrates the problem with different groups having different criteria for measuring sobriety. In my group, Clara (by ordering booze with soup) and Bill Wilson (by dropping LSD) would have lost all their respective clean time. But in another group those actions might have been OK. I believe that different groups creating different sobriety standards violates the 4th Tradition because it affects AA as a whole when sobriety tokens don't have universal value (because they don't mean the same thing) throughout the entire Fellowship. It would sort of by like each individual U.S. state printing its own money with each currency dollar representing a different value in each state.
"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid."
causeandeffect
Sun, 05/20/2012 - 17:16
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There's a meeting like that
There's a meeting like that here. It's not called B2B, but it does involve doing the steps quickly and publicly, 5th step in front of the group, and getting on knees to do the 3rd step prayer (just like bob made people kneel down before him) and the higher power must be Jesus. They actively try to recruit from other meetings and when they do, they just say you're taken through the steps like the original 100. You have to talk to one of them to get all the creepy details.
Troll free AA critical forum
http://www.expaa.org/
"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it." ~ Neil deGrasse Tyson
gigi
Sun, 05/20/2012 - 17:45
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Yes. Back to Basics. What
Yes. Back to Basics. What you described (C&E) is exactly what my group was like. Minus the on the knees praying part. They also use straight out of Oxford group prayer literature for 11th step.
"If I forget who I am, I am myself. If I remember who I am, I am you."
Trisha K.
Sun, 05/20/2012 - 17:34
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No it doesn't depend upon the group or AA/GSO.
Being a sponsor is solely dependent upon you. That is why there are so very few. As far as members of AA going to institutions, this has nothing to do sponsorship. It is an opportunity to give of yourself that what was so freely given to you. Very seldom does an intimate relationship such as a sponsor happen in such a setting.
“The more I traveled the more I realized that fear makes strangers of people who should be friends.”
Shirley MacLaine
Pennywise
Sun, 05/20/2012 - 17:43
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Theoretically anyone can
Theoretically anyone can sponsor anyone. But I'm referring mainly to the group guidelines. Anyway, I know prospect hunting is different than sponsorship, which is precisely why I listed the criteria for each separately. Hunting in prisons is more formal, which is why you usually have to get permission through the group Corrections Committee. There is no committee (at my group) that officially approves a person's fitness to sponsor. Of course, you have to meet the guidelines to raise your hand when the leader formally asks potential sponsors to identify themselves at the beginning of the meeting.
"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid."
Trisha K.
Sun, 05/20/2012 - 17:54
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Groups do not have guide lines nor do they interfere...
In sponsorship at all. I am not sure where you are getting this. I am sorry for not really believing you knew the difference between sponsoring and going to institutions to carry your message. You meshed them together.
This has got to be some of the most bizarre BS I have ever heard. Your group dictating whether you can sponsor or not.
Penny your a smart guy how do you determine when one has got enough AA to sponsor?
“The more I traveled the more I realized that fear makes strangers of people who should be friends.”
Shirley MacLaine
Pennywise
Sun, 05/20/2012 - 18:03
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Look, everything in AA is
Look, almost everything in AA is couched as suggestions. Technically, as you know, very little is mandatory. An exception is going to hunt in prisons, being treasurer, or holding other official positions. There are mandatory criteria for that. But sponsorship criteria is not mandatory. Basically the leader explains that it is recommended for all sponsors to have a year of continuous sobriety and to have worked all the Steps. The leader then asks everyone in the room who meets this criteria and who is available for sponsorship to raise his or her hand. Newcomers are then encouraged to talk with those people. But yes, technically anyone can sponsor anyone.
"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid."
humanspirit
Sun, 05/20/2012 - 15:26
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Sorry, All, in advance
Clara says:
"The position on sexual inventories in AA is that your behavior is between you and your higher power."
I quite agree that any sexual behaviour that takes place between a person and their higher power should be between them and them alone, as should the matter of any positions they choose to use be.
We Brits are pretty bawdy and irreverent, which is why all this talk about "reaching bottoms" appeals to our sense of humour too.
Trisha K.
Sun, 05/20/2012 - 14:41
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This is not funny since we are Americans on an American site.
Your apology is not accepted. Please refrain from anymore attempts of UK humor.
Thanks!
“The more I traveled the more I realized that fear makes strangers of people who should be friends.”
Shirley MacLaine
JR Harris
Sun, 05/20/2012 - 14:53
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The rogue AA members such as yourself Danny are a global problem
That is why the call it Alcoholics Anonymous World Services, Inc. They need to put a leash and muzzle on the AA members that keep putting AA under scrutiny, keep trying to tell people what "they" think AA is all about, have books written about them and keep changing their user names after they are banned to come back and cause more trouble.
"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.
gigi
Sun, 05/20/2012 - 14:53
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Bloody arse.
Bloody arse.
"If I forget who I am, I am myself. If I remember who I am, I am you."
patti
Sun, 05/20/2012 - 15:07
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I'm an American who adores
I'm an American who adores British humor!
patti
humanspirit
Sun, 05/20/2012 - 15:21
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Trisha
"We are Americans on an American site"?
Who's "we"? Did anyone ever tell you that the internet is no respecter of national boundaries, nor is anti-AA sentiment? (AA is an unwelcome American export to the UK, btw, but I don't blame my American friends for that!)
When did you reach your bottom, btw?
Trisha K.
Sun, 05/20/2012 - 16:06
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You are not an alcoholic nor have never been an AA member....
What are you doing here. Your partner isn't. Take a cue from him, move on. Who cares if you blame America or not.
BTW, if you want to return AA to its proper place, that would be fine. Wouldn't be the first time we had to take something back from you.
Cheerio!!!
“The more I traveled the more I realized that fear makes strangers of people who should be friends.”
Shirley MacLaine
humanspirit
Sun, 05/20/2012 - 16:42
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Hi Trisha/Danny
Why are you so coy about telling the rest of us here about your experiences with AA? Do you think the steps worked for you? How about your fourth and fifth step? How did the making amends to all you have harmed thing pan out, and do you seek daily of God's will and the power to carry that out? What does this mean to you in real terms, and according to your day-to-day experience? Are you confident that you know what God's will is for you? Have you had spiritual awakening? Did any of this help you to stop drinking, and if so, how?
Danny, you have never done anything on this site apart from make ad hom attacks on other commentators. Why not tell us all why you think AA is such a good thing?
humanspirit
Sun, 05/20/2012 - 16:45
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Trisha
PS, forgot to ask again: What was it like when you found your bottom?
Trisha K.
Sun, 05/20/2012 - 16:52
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Boy I bet your the hero, now.
Still doesn't explain what you are doing here. Calling me Danny makes you a big hit with the other members that have never been to AA.
Cheerios!!!
“The more I traveled the more I realized that fear makes strangers of people who should be friends.”
Shirley MacLaine
gigi
Sun, 05/20/2012 - 16:57
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lol ^
"Cheerios!!!"
Fruit Loops???
"If I forget who I am, I am myself. If I remember who I am, I am you."
causeandeffect
Sun, 05/20/2012 - 17:19
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Coco puffs
Coco puffs
Troll free AA critical forum
http://www.expaa.org/
"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it." ~ Neil deGrasse Tyson
NoAAUK
Sun, 05/20/2012 - 17:26
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"Calling me Danny makes you a
"Calling me Danny makes you a big hit with the other members that have never been to AA."
People who have never been to AA usually think it is a wonderful organisation beyon reproach, they don't come on websites like this, thats the problem.
The people who come on here are mainly those who have been and therefore know AA is a lying misinforming death cult
......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11
AntiDenial
Sun, 05/20/2012 - 14:45
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LOL-quite the sense of humor
LOL-quite the sense of humor there humanspirit! Thanks I needed a laugh......
keep it coming!
Criminals In Alcoholics Anonymous and Narcotics Anonymous
www.nadaytona.org
btnben
Sun, 05/20/2012 - 14:47
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Sexual Inventory?...lol
Now there's an invitation to lie if ever I saw one...lol
"Standing up in a hammock" immediately sprang to mind, but perhaps that's pushing the bounds of credibility just a little too far?...lol
God damn it, get me a whiskey
Bill W, Deathbed
http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc
humanspirit
Sun, 05/20/2012 - 16:04
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Ben
Well, y'know, I used to do that thing with the - y'know - thing. I'm glad to say it didn't involve hammocks. And certainly no more reaching bottoms as taught by AA.
These days the delights of my bedroom are usually more about a mug of hot chocolate and a good book. I wonder if I've had a spiritual awakening without knowing it, which would be a much cooler interpetation? Unfortunately I think it's generally just called middle age and work in the morning.
becket
Sun, 05/20/2012 - 17:18
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Why would one lie on a sexual
Why would one lie on a sexual inventory? If the process had broken down so far by the time the fourth/fifth steps had rolled around, any inventory is a moot exercise. I don't understand why people who say they were disenchanted with AA from the very beginning didn't just trust their gut and leave.
Can you answer that, btnben?
“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian
btnben
Sun, 05/20/2012 - 17:20
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It was a joke, shit for brains.
Only a fucking moron would do a sexual inventory in the first place...lol. Oh.....sorry.....did you do one?...lol
God damn it, get me a whiskey
Bill W, Deathbed
http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc
Pennywise
Sun, 05/20/2012 - 17:31
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There is some truth in it. I
There is some truth in it. I think many guys up the number of girls they fucked and many women (I'm guessing) reduce the number of guys. I know, from the male perspective, that a sexual inventory can often turn into bragging exercise.
"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid."
becket
Sun, 05/20/2012 - 18:23
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You see, right there is where
You see, right there is where the breakdown occurs. Men will either exaggerate the number of partners and adventures they've had or they will downplay their infidelities, their secret gay experiences, their sexual inabilities. When the dishonesty starts, it's game over. AA will not work perhaps for many reasons, but if you try to lie your way through the steps you're toast.
I don't believe women (or most women) are built that way. Even so, the fact about lying to get through the steps stands. Without honesty there's nothing to the program but coffee.
“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian
becket
Sun, 05/20/2012 - 17:57
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You epitomize everything that
You epitomize everything that is bad about this forum, btnben. I think you're even more insulting on a regular basis that I've been. Did you never do a sexual inventory? If not, how do you know AA does not work? Are you judging from the outside? That puts you in the bleachers with JR Harris, another AA wannabe. Either you worked all 12 steps and found you were unsuccessful at finding what you were looking for, or you did not work the steps and, as a result, give daily corrupt and inauthentic lip service to the idea that AA does not work.
Which is it?
“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian
btnben
Sun, 05/20/2012 - 18:01
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"You epitomize everything that is bad about this forum, btnben."
Wanna put that one to the vote Marietta? Loser leaves and never comes back?...lol
I'm not here to answer your questions. The fact that you lie through your teeth regularly means it is OK to treat you like dirt - you are...lol. Are you sure you were driving drunk at age 11?...lol You never answered that one?...lol
God damn it, get me a whiskey
Bill W, Deathbed
http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc
becket
Sun, 05/20/2012 - 18:26
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1. The name is becket.
1. The name is becket.
2. If you want to open a 1% above plant life poll on the forum I can't stop you.
3. Orange calls the shots, not you.
4. You can't answer my questions. It would reveal too much about your personal fraud.
5. I have no idea about the age 11 drunk driving thing you keep harping on. What do you mean? I'll answer it if I can.
6. Goddamn it get your own fuckin' whiskey.
“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian
btnben
Sun, 05/20/2012 - 18:32
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I've asked several times
Even made a poll over it. You are 63, 32 years sober, 20 years drunk driving. All your own words. Just apply a bit of arithmetic and, hey presto, drunk driving at age 11.
You are Marietta - everyone knowns you are and most want rid of you. Orange may call the shots but I'm confident that he has an ear for the democratic voice.
What "personal fraud" - that is just the ravings of a loon...lol
God damn it, get me a whiskey
Bill W, Deathbed
http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc
becket
Sun, 05/20/2012 - 18:50
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You know, you're right; I got
You know, you're right; I got my learner's in '64 and that would make it 16 years drunk driving. Thank you for pointing that out. Math clearly is not my best subject.
I am becket, I've been becket since I've come to this forum. You cannot speak for everyone, btnben. If it is really in everyone's best interest for you to assume control of who can and cannot post on this forum, then enjoy your time in the sun with your mission to crush a voice that contributes from left field. It's clear that your actions would have their origins in a vendetta and not out of the goodness of your heart or to provide a level playing field, because it is currently a level playing field, where all voices are heard. No one has to agree with me, no one has to accept my point of view, nor do I have to take as gospel anything anyone else says. That is why this is called a forum and not an edict or an injunction. You simply don't like having someone dogging you about your hatefulness.
Do what you will, btnben. I have no problem if you want to put a vote out there. I think I've made relative peace with most people posting these days, and the others, well, they just need to be called on a few things, that's all. So get out your crown and sceptor and do your thang, btnben. I can't stop you and I wouldn't if I could.
“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian
btnben
Sun, 05/20/2012 - 18:51
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You admit you always started the hatefulness?
Bitch...lol
God damn it, get me a whiskey
Bill W, Deathbed
http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc
becket
Sun, 05/20/2012 - 18:54
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No, sir, I most certainly did
No, sir, I most certainly did not "admit" to any such nonsense.
The closer I get to seeing who you are, the more your profanity comes into view. What are you afraid of?
“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian
btnben
Sun, 05/20/2012 - 18:56
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WTF are you talking about?
"The closer I get to seeing who you are...." - whhhhhhooooooooo - scary. You are fucking insane...lol
God damn it, get me a whiskey
Bill W, Deathbed
http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc
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