Are You Safe in an Alcoholics Anonymous Meeting?

The women that discuss sex and "how they masturbate and the use of their fingers and vibrators" aren't any less of a victim of a sex crime than those that don't talk about it or do it. That's not to say it isn't a definite character flaw if they share this with their children. As well as the other the other crap JIF mentioned. I’m sickened by the thought of a mother talking that way to a child...Women that are horny and want hot guys or screw all day long with different partners aren't less of a victim either. That is, if someone else actually takes advantage of them.

That isn't to say that girls don't play their own little games and are a tease. Disrupting a meeting as much as anyone else with their bullshit. I witnessed a few gals that seemed to be begging for it during a share, that with a low cut top on and obviously flirting. Those that act in such a way give the impression that hmmm, why not use AA as a dating service? I knew a lot of women that would have barricaded themselves around a girl and tried to protect some that acted similarly following a meeting and against the "vultures" that appeared to me were acting on her "invite". I had been instructed to watch out for the other girls but I was not having any part of that in some instances. When a bunch of guys surrounded Lisa during a break after her 10 minute share I just turned away and actually just left. I thought, “OK maybe the guys shouldn't be stalking a newcomer like this (must have 10 trying to edge their way toward her to share their "exp, strength, and hope") – they should know better”. But she loved it, being high - her breasts hanging out - seductively smiling – winking during her talk. Who could blame them under these circumstances?

Not all girls are victims of “13 stepping” but that isn’t to say because some act inappropriately others aren’t being victimized left and right. There are different types of this step work, some instances more blatant than others. It is not all about female victims or about sex. Women take advantage of men too. My understanding is that it comes down to a member taking advantage of another’s newcomer status for their own advantage. In some milder cases the “victim” may even seem willing to date, but get disrespected by advancements made by more seasoned members. In the harsher cases a victim is harassed, and I think the perps in these cases have intent. When it comes to abuse through and down to rape, that's how it should be defined. Not 13 stepping. There is serious crime occurring in the fellowship and it's a shame to me that it has come down to this. Fucking org's that don't give a shit and care more about money and pr are morally corrupt. If I loved the program I couldn't sit still knowing this was a worldwide problem.

Im sure after reading that lovely post, no woman would want to work for you, either.

You sound like you think you are hot shit. You also sound incapable of scoring a chick and upset about that.

Doesn't matter, I'm writing you off now. That post was just fucked up.

I like to think I'm a blatantly hetrosexual man, yet another man tried to 13th step me in AA.

I once asked a friend of mine, he was a lazy (he's never worked his partner does), hard drinking, drug taking womanizer, what he thought about 13th stepping in AA. He said "There are lines you DO NOT CROSS exploitation of the vunerable is one"

Its shitting on your own people, you don't do it whatever sex you are

I had a problem with sex when I was really engrossed in AA. I was young and interested in girls. That was another reason I wanted to go to the drinking venues. Stepism really screwed my mind. I wanted to be out and about chasing women, not sitting in meetings with people twice my age talking about character defects. I thought this interest in sex was another character defect and selfish and I must seek out Gods will or I would die.

Years later you realise, interest in girls was natural and normal especially in your early 20's. It was AA that was messed up. And most of the people were hypocrites jumping in and out of bed with each other while I was trying to supress my natural instincts. I never could make any sense out of AA.

Now I know there was no sense there to make. It was all mean't to keep me totally confused, and forever attending meetings searching for some insight, that wasn't even there and I could never find. And for what, what is the point of stepism?

Those "sponsors" of theirs seem to micromanage people's lives. I guess the 13-steppers can't get any other pleasure out of life anymore except sex. So, IMO, they haze and screw newcomers. I say, they should all screw themselves until they're blue in the face. Oh, yeah, isn't it interesting that in their holy writ/Big Book Bill W. seemed quite interested in - perhaps obsessed - with SEX. Why is sex such an important part of the "confession" steps? Bill W. = pervert who just kept "carrying the message." Apparently, lots of his followers continue that tradition. Maybe the 13th steppers should just go home and masturbate. That might potentially solve a lot of problems :-)

Patti - that just comes across as really fucking patronising.

An don't even try to say you don't. When you first came to this forum, you were very adamant about your opposite sex Sponsor and defending it. YOU ARE A BAD EXAMPLE to newcomers.

End Story.

Sure SOMETIMES people really ARE vulnerable.... desperate and needy.... And they DO need looking after... To keep the fucking leeches and predators off their backs....

BUT much of the time, one is responsible for ones own decisions and the outcome of these decisions.....

How much hand holding and protection from the real world do some people REALLY need?

And how much should the be given?

Where does getting on with my own life begin and end and where does minding everyone else's business and protecting them from themselves and each other end?

People often enough, tend to end up doing what they WANT to do, instead of what they OUGHT to do.

Ring my sponsor, go to a meeting, call my therapist, do some inventory, get some material on relationships and how to hold them, learn the difference between healthy relationships and addictive relationships and listen to some recovery / family therapy tapes, go hang out with some SAFE people, or find a community group to go learn some arty skills and or therapy things,

OR

Go away for the week end and fuck each others brains out.... and then crash and burn badly 3 weeks later.

You know - NO ONE STUCK A GUN TO THEIR HEAD and said, "Pants down around the ankles sweet heart!"