I have always found the statement "It Works" in relation to AA, or most other treatment programs, to be distasteful. It seems to imply a level fo efficacy that is misleading. For example, if i were to say "Morpheine works to provide pain relief", that would be a medical fact. It is proven to provide pain relief, and does so (i assume) in all cases where adminstration is biologically tolerated.
But this is not the case with any method of addiction treatment. Addicts respond to different methods of treatment, and no one treatment is effective for everyone. Thus, AA members usually make the disclaimer "It works, for me". But this kind of statement is inappropriate for any treatment methodology. It either works or it doesn't. Pharmaceuticals are not approved on the basis of them working "for me". Minimum standards are required in order to claim they are an effective treatment.
A comment by genejoe on an earlier Al-Anon blog post, which said that psychological treatment may help some people, got me thinking. I think i would be more comfortable with recovered addicts saying "It helps", or "It helped me". This type of statement is not only a more accurate reflection of the subjective experience, it also points to the complexity of addiction recovery - multiple inputs are usually required.
I just wonder if 12 Step members are trying to gain some sort of credibility by claiming "It works", even though the claim is not scientifically valid.
Any thoughts?
Comments
avogadno
Sat, 05/19/2012 - 00:10
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Water?
Water?
Pro Empowerment!
Truth about AA: http://orange-papers.org/menu1.html
Expose AA: http://www.expaa.org/
Ironic
Sat, 05/19/2012 - 21:50
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Yeah, water
You need it to mix the drugs in your spoon/cooker to put in your needle to shoot into your arm.
Persephone In Exile
Fri, 05/18/2012 - 14:11
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LOL Ironic, I've got to agree
LOL Ironic, I've got to agree with you there. I have seen few DOCs lead to more wanton sexual activity (not that I have anything against that) than alcohol.
http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/
becket
Fri, 05/18/2012 - 14:35
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"I've seen more ALCOHOLIC
"I've seen more ALCOHOLIC bums on the street than junkies, for sure."
That's because the junkies have taken up all the indoor spaces. :D
“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian
becket
Fri, 05/18/2012 - 12:22
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If "AA=VD", then that is a
If "AA=VD", then that is a consequence of a personal choice to have sex. Instead, the equation should read, "AA equals/does not equal VD, depending upon personal choice, not depending upon the 12 steps, the gurus, the chanting or the coffee."
Those who will scream "rape!" upon reading this equation should remember that the rapist is operating under personal choice, and the victim has the choice to report the crime and participate in prosecution, whether or not she contracts a venereal disease or conceives through the act.
“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian
patti
Fri, 05/18/2012 - 13:59
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Again, AA is high risk
Again, AA is high risk behavior, for sex & other safety issues.
patti
becket
Fri, 05/18/2012 - 14:35
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AA is a behavior? Do tell.
AA is a behavior? Do tell.
“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian
patti
Sat, 05/19/2012 - 04:37
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Sure, will tell. Using
Sure, will tell. Using needles is a high risk behavior for contracting diseases. Hanging out in a really rough environment, say a bar in a dangerous neighborhood is high risk behavior for safety. Hanging out @ AA meetings is a high risk behavior for safety, physical, mental & emotional. It's a dangerous environment & a high risk behavior. Having sex with with members of AA or NA is a high risk behavior, having sex with a person who has been a IV drug user is a high risk behavior. Having sex with a promiscuous AA or NA member is a high risk behavior. Are AA & NA members often promiscuous, yes, especially the 13 steppers. Do AA & NA provide a playground for sexual predators & 13th steppers, yes, so the environment is a high risk behavior environment. Come on, this was self explanatory.
patti
avogadno
Sat, 05/19/2012 - 05:34
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That's a good point. Since
That's a good point. Since there is a strong socialized stigma related to STD's, that it is shameful, it seems to carry more weight than social or behavioral issues. Compare that to the emotional platitudes found during interactions that are not physical. It makes me wonder about the "high risk" situations we find ourselves in every day.
Pro Empowerment!
Truth about AA: http://orange-papers.org/menu1.html
Expose AA: http://www.expaa.org/
disclosure
Sat, 05/19/2012 - 07:36
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AA= HIGH RISK
AA is a high risk behavior. I never thought about it in the context Patti mentions. I was concerned about getting beat up or shot. I remember several occasions when people threatened violence at meetings, I was always afraid they would return with a gun. Add in the other predatory aspects of meetings and AA has a pretty low cost to benefit ratio. AA is a criminal concentration, it is no wonder that much of the cultish programming is con based, I am sure it evolved from the many criminal con men found in meetings. The joke is that it’s a program of attraction and not promotion. Attraction to what? It isn’t the steps!
disclosure
Fri, 05/18/2012 - 14:16
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AA rule #69
Rule 68; Don't take yourself so seriously.
Rule 69; Don't have sex with other members.
Clara
Fri, 05/18/2012 - 14:34
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I thought it was rule 62, Dis
I thought it was rule 62, Dis. No rule 69. Lame.
Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.
disclosure
Fri, 05/18/2012 - 16:17
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One in five AA members has type 2 herpes
check it out...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herpes
btnben
Fri, 05/18/2012 - 16:26
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There were 5 of us used to hang out together in AA
There was Me, Pete "The biscuit", "Railway" Mike, "Herpes" Harry and "South African" Dave. You say one in five has herpes? I reckon it was Pete "The biscuit"...lol
God damn it, get me a whiskey
Bill W, Deathbed
http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc
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