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Wed, 05/16/2012 - 15:02
This is your answer to my question?
Are you also twirling the ends of your hair and chewing bubble gum?
“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian
Tue, 05/15/2012 - 21:56
" Also the people on this forum, do not resent AA, we are aware & have experienced the abuses, damages, harms, unhealthiness, we do not support faith healing or the psycho babble of an immoral con man, we want AA to be exposed for what it really is & to stagnate & collapse & dissolve."
How could you possibly experience all the horror and angst you claim and not resent AA, patti? You win the Full of Shit award for today. Maybe now that that Calcutta bitch is out of the way you can aim for the next beatification.
Tue, 05/15/2012 - 22:15
why I just pray & let go & let God. "Resent" is an AA word Beckett & AA uses the term often & belittles its "fellows", yes lots of belittling in the rooms of support, for ever having the normal human emotion of resenting. The last emotions you want people you are trying to control feeling are anger or resenting, AA convinces its members they will relapse if they resent. If you resent when in AA, the next feelings may be questioning contradictions, critically thinking, seeing the truth with the next, inevitable quitting the support group. Resent is a quiet seething, not happening with me or the others here, lot more going on than resenting, that is a very small part of what anti AAers are feeling & communicating. Rick wrote the people on the forum were resenting AA, that is not the only thing going on here, as you well know. Rick also plugged for AA, he suggested to us that we "resent" others, judges, etc. Obviously Rick has been told that the people on the OP forum, are here because we are "resenting" AA, another thing Rick believed was that offenders sentenced to AA, should just man up & choose the jail sentence instead, he didn't understand they don't get to make a choice, this is an AA myth, that they pathetically brag about, well they chose us over jail! Wow! Of course ex AAers resent AA, that is the healthy emotion & reaction to have when you leave a mind control cult.
Wed, 05/16/2012 - 06:30
This is perhaps the most destructive word that AA/12 steps have hijacked and re-defined for use in their "language" of AA.
In addition, the substance abuse "treatment" industry has hijacked this terminology and uses it to define anybody that objects with ANY aspect of AA/12 steps.
Alcoholics Anonymous: MyNotGodHasItCovered®http://www.expaa.org/http://bereanresearch.com/http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/NOT AA:
Rational Recovery, SOS, HAMShttp://alcoholabusesolutions.com/
Wed, 05/16/2012 - 14:53
exactly, unless you say exactly what they want you to say & what they want to hear, you are in denial, not just telling the/your truth. Extremely destructive, & very controlling, I agree.
Wed, 05/16/2012 - 15:03
Only if you allow it to control you.
Thu, 05/17/2012 - 08:50
that's exactly what we are advocating to do here & in society, let people know not to go to a 12 step or the anons for substance addiction when they are battered & vulnerable from addiction, because they are going to a controlling environment & group. You know that AA uses classic control tactics, vulnerable people, the same words, practice, theories & concepts over & over, the same cause we said so & we know cause this worked for us. Repetitive, the same words over & over, the same theories, philosophies, that is exactly what brain washing does. If you recommend or "suggest" that people not allow themselves to be controlled, then you in good conscience would have to recommend they do not attend AA, NA or an anon. Otherwise you are recommending they trust a controlling environment & unqualified lay people not to take advantage of their weakness's & fragility & amid these vulnerable circumstances, don't allow themselves to be controlled or brain washed. How would a person pull that off successfully? To avoid control don't listen or trust or believe any thing any AA member tells you to do, think, feel or believe, otherwise you are letting your self be controlled? How can any one do both?
Persephone In Exile
Wed, 05/16/2012 - 08:09
Marietta's back on toxic overload. It's only a matter of time now.
Wed, 05/16/2012 - 13:06
Only a matter of time till what, Persephone?
Wed, 05/16/2012 - 15:12
Never mind, it's already happened. You are responding to almost every post at this point. The meltdown can't be far off.
Wed, 05/16/2012 - 16:27
Do you think marietta's serenity meltdowns are usually preceded by a dictionary definition? Is it my imagination or is there a pattern here? Or sometimes they are preceded by synonyms and antonyms? LOL!
Troll free AA critical forumhttp://www.expaa.org/
"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it." ~ Neil deGrasse Tyson
Wed, 05/16/2012 - 08:15
verb (used with object)
to feel or show displeasure or indignation at (a person, act, remark, etc.) from a sense of injury or insult.
Origin:1595–1605; < French ressentir to be angry < Old French resentir, equivalent to re- re- + sentir to feel < Latin sentīre; see sense
"resent" is not an AA word.
"why I just pray & let go & let God." This phrase is meaningless.
Are you trying to say that because btnben follows every insipid post with "lol" that he is not seething - even when he says, "Fuck Off!"? You're insane.
Mandates should not be mandated. They should go to jail. No options, no soft place to fall, no dragging hate and anger into meetings.
Do not presume to tell me what I will do, whether in AA or not.
Wed, 05/16/2012 - 08:25
It's meaning has been altered by AA/NA, I believe is what she was getting at. And she is right. The redefining of common words is Cult 101.
I never got this one. You can resent people or institutions without that resentment really taking up much of your time, certainly not many of your thoughts. How on earth is resenting someone (or something) going to make someone drink or use again? It's such nonsense thinking.
Wed, 05/16/2012 - 09:25
Who is "she"?
Truth about AA: http://orange-papers.org/menu1.html
Expose AA: http://www.expaa.org/
Wed, 05/16/2012 - 09:43
Something is wrong with my computer. It's not showing all of the posts.
Wed, 05/16/2012 - 13:17
Don't know what you're referring to, avogadno, but my post was in response to patti's from Wed, 05/16/2012 - 01:15, called "Easy Beckett"
Wed, 05/16/2012 - 13:07
Its meaning has not been altered by AA/NA.
Were you too down on your shit to work up a good hatred for anything until now, Persephone?
Wed, 05/16/2012 - 08:33
Ascribe your feelings to everyone else. I don't seethe - simple. I just can't be bothered too. Lazy I suppose - it's just too much effort. If I get angry I tend to explode and apologise 5 minutes later. Friends laugh at me for it.
And when I tell you to "Fuck off", could it just be possible that I want you to fuck off - no seething involved?
I watched the insane bitch from the first minute she was on here. Every post dripping venom. PIE - I like your idea of the toxicity affecter her herself.
God damn it, get me a whiskey
Bill W, Deathbed
Wed, 05/16/2012 - 13:08
What an advantage, getting your arrogance in on the ground floor.
Wed, 05/16/2012 - 13:29
Not if your in any 12 step or Anon, it's not meaningless.
Wed, 05/16/2012 - 14:15
"Rick wrote the people on the forum were resenting AA, that is not the only thing going on here, as you well know. Rick also plugged for AA, he suggested to us that we "resent" others, judges, etc. Obviously Rick has been told that the people on the OP forum, are here because we are "resenting" AA, another thing Rick believed was that offenders sentenced to AA, should just man up & choose the jail sentence instead, he didn't understand they don't get to make a choice, this is an AA myth, that they pathetically brag about, well they chose us over jail! Wow! Of course ex AAers resent AA, that is the healthy emotion & reaction to have when you leave a mind control cult."
Rick? Who's Rick? If you're gonna rag on somebody, at least get the name right.
Wed, 05/16/2012 - 08:31
Why is every word int he language attributed to Bil or AA? Patti, do you reallly think that "resent" or "resentments" were ever terms used solely in recovery speak?
Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.
Wed, 05/16/2012 - 09:42
Resentments lead only to "futility and unhappiness". It's the number one offender for the alcoholic, according to Bill W.'s recovery model. Is it only the alcoholic that can get strongly affected? He said that it destroys more alcoholics more than anything else. If you're born with an alcoholic gene then you must be born with resentments. Either that or you are prone to this strong adverse effect. If God can remove them, than he must have given them to us. Why? Too complicated...By the way, keep it simple. Just do it, because figuring it out is too hard.
Wed, 05/16/2012 - 09:51
Yeah, in recovery world they mean this. It sort of goes back to what I was saying on a different thread, though. The end result in the program is to get people to blindly forgive any and every wrong perpetrated against them, i.e. people become willing doormats for the sake of their "sobriety". Having a resentment doesn't mean you become some seething and obsessed revenge fanatic like you see in so many films in real life, though. It helps people set up healthy boundaries so that they're not continually hurt by people who are frequently truly harmful to their well being. And you don't become a doormat! Like I said regarding the practice of turning people into constantly sharing self-centered drones, there's no dignity in being a groveling worm. Sharing everything that comes into your head and refusing to resent anyone else's abuse of you MIGHT keep you sober and clean, but is there any dignity in this? At all? Because I don't see it.
Wed, 05/16/2012 - 12:30
Do you think that resentments necessarily lead to something positive? I have Amish friends that strive to live without resentment and believe in forgiveness to a level I have not found elswhere. I don't think anyone needs to be an AA to see some benefit to attempting to live resentment free.
I remember when those children were shot by the gunman at their school. I read the remarks by the women as they left funeral after funeral... "He has already been forgiven." I am not so sure I could do that, especially that soon, but it is how they believe.
Wed, 05/16/2012 - 14:02
Clara, I don't believe that resentments are necessarily always good to have or lead to much positive in someone's life, either. I do think that feeling them for some period of time is fairly natural to the human condition, though. It doesn't mean a person lets them fester and eat them alive, though that obviously happens in plenty of people (many of whom aren't alcoholics or addicts), but rather just something people are aware of having so that they're not taken advantage of again by the people who caused the resentment. Or, if it was your own doing, you learn a bit from that until it becomes not something you actively resent any longer. Which I think is true in either case.
There are very few Amish converts, possibly the least of any religious sect. The people who are striving to live that way are practicing those principles from birth and surrounded by others who strive for the same principles (which also include nonviolence). Throw someone without that background into a belief system in which they're told to live that way, while possibly still surrounded by abusive people, and it becomes a different matter.
Wed, 05/16/2012 - 13:36
Resentment is not exclusive to the alcoholic. Anyone can experience it - even btnben, though he denies it ("denial" being another alleged "AA word" that did not have its origin in AA, by the way).
If one does not believe in God, and still suffers from resentments, then it is of his or her own doing that the resentments developed and festered. They are then solely responsible for managing the resentments. If the resentments do not go away, they might try working harder, pursuing an alternate path toward equilibrium.
If one does believe in God, s/he can work in tandem with that higher power to diminish or neutralize resentments. If the resentment do not go away, they might try working harder, pursuing an alternate path toward equilibrium.
Both plans are designed for the alcoholic and the non-alcoholic. After all, what else does one have left but to keep trying?
Wed, 05/16/2012 - 13:30
of course I don't. The words I've mentioned as AA words are as you well know, AA words & speak.
Wed, 05/16/2012 - 13:53
But it is also everywhere else, as I pointed out in a real example. The logic behind it isn't limited to AA.
Wed, 05/16/2012 - 14:23
The words are used over & over by AA to belittle, demean, brain wash & control. This is a forum pertaining to anti AA, the definitions & words we are discussing are in the context in which AA uses them, over, over & over. Of course they are not words that Wilson or AA created, but Wilson & AA have used these words over, over & over for Wilson's weird little world & AA speak, the words represent Wilson's & AA's psycho babble & anecdotal theories.
Wed, 05/16/2012 - 14:29
The problem is in the perception, not the usage.
Do you realize that term "psychobabble" is, in itself, psychobabble?
Wed, 05/16/2012 - 12:39
Hi Rob, The institutions, jails and professionals all get their information from somewhere. It is perpetuated from the lies of the 12 step foundation which come from AA. I was pushed in as a result of the absurdity and pulled in by the organization itself. A good slogan would be, "Stay and live or leave and die. It's a choice". Huh? What kind of choice is that?
The conviction comes from XA and started with scare tactics generated by Bill Wilson himself. He didn’t search within and express truth. He spread projectile rumors onto anyone in arms length so that he could get what he really wanted; A congregation of miniature Bills that he could manipulate into doing what he wasn’t capable of himself. And so on and on and on. Guru status allows you to do the same.
When a person does die, the lifers sit around and congratulate each other on how right they are. They pass the billshit around the room: "See what happens when you don't work the steps?!", “Too bad he didn’t make it back to the rooms.” We all are/were supposedly like the walking dead and without options. The truth is that fear is crammed into our minds during a time when we are least likely to be thinking properly.
Many of us were harmed by the program in some fashion. I say that outright with hopes that you might refrain from spreading some of your “sick enjoyment” around.
Tue, 05/15/2012 - 10:51
Enjoyed your post. But one thing- AA doesn't work any better than no treatment in alleviating "problem drinking". I don't resent AA; I reject it as a fraud and a hoax. BTW-"If you want to get into the solution"-then stop drinking, that IS the solution.
Fri, 01/04/2013 - 17:11
Tue, 05/15/2012 - 21:25
"But I don't run around claiming volleyball is a cure for alcoholism"
Nor must you run around claiming AA is nothing but bullshit. Some people get something out of it. You spent TWENTY YEARS in the rooms, for god's sake. If it's so full of shit, can you explain your presence in meetings for two decades? Were you a guru? Did you dig the applause? Did you believe it was helping you? Were you a sponsor? Twenty years, dude. That's a hell of a lot of unexplained participation if you knew AA was crap.
Tue, 05/15/2012 - 21:31
Where are you coming from? You have no idea what is happening in AA except for what you read on the Orange Papers.
"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.
Tue, 05/15/2012 - 21:35
Well shit, JR Harris, you should know: I get everything from Google.
Google knows . . .
Tue, 05/15/2012 - 21:38
You are also not using the correct search terms. The dangers of the cult of AA is all over the web, and it is growing exponentially. Switch to a new internet search engine........
Tue, 05/15/2012 - 21:50
O rly? Which search engine do YOU use?
Tue, 05/15/2012 - 21:57
Obviously not the same as you are using... because Google Analytic is finding the information we all know about on the Orange Papers.
Hint: Many search engines use Google Analytic that aren't Google.
Wed, 05/16/2012 - 08:06
And I should care . . . why?
Tue, 05/15/2012 - 22:24
"nor must you run around claiming AA is nothing but bullshit". What the hell are you talking about? Nor must you run around, there are no musts here on the OP forum, you are getting mixed up with AA & thinking you are "suggesting". Oh Beckett put a lid on it & give it a rest.
Wed, 05/16/2012 - 08:18
It might take two hands, patti, but search diligently for your mind and then perhaps you can comprehend the meaning of my post.
Tue, 05/15/2012 - 13:44
Either way you are going to take it in the arse.
Why don't the courts offer other means of support including AA?
Why the Judaic Christian recovery monopoly?
Tue, 05/15/2012 - 13:57
That's obviously been a point on this forum under other blogs. Some jurisdictions do offer alternatives.
Need to offer a wide variety of assistance, not alternatives, but inclusive and comprehensive.
Wed, 05/16/2012 - 12:42
Why not just say, "I suggest you get sober".
Tue, 05/15/2012 - 15:56
Why not just jail? Why do booze offenders have to be coddled?
Wed, 05/16/2012 - 12:43
comment removed by creator
Wed, 05/16/2012 - 21:24
uh oh. I could be in trouble.