Bill W & The Spiritual Awakening?

Submitted by The Professor on Sat, 05/12/2012 - 02:51

Forums:

One thing that has always puzzled me.

How come Bill W gets his "spiritual awakening" even before a step has been done? Yet everyone else must do the whole of the 12 steps before they get their spiritual awakening? If a spiritual awakening is the main ingredient for sobriety, then surely all it will take is a bit of Belladonna?

Clara's picture

Clara

Sat, 05/12/2012 - 19:41

Who said I was here to defend anything at all, GiGi? Why is everything a competition or a "gotcha" or an argument? I was never here to do a 12 step on anyone. That is conjecture on your part.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

Pennywise's picture

Pennywise

Sat, 05/12/2012 - 19:46

Yeah, you are here because you think we are sick and you don't want to be like us.

"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid."

Clara's picture

Clara

Sat, 05/12/2012 - 19:57

I surely have come to feel that there are people on this board I wouldn't want to be like, Penny.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

Pennywise's picture

Pennywise

Sat, 05/12/2012 - 20:03

That's fine. We don't live by the motto "if you want what we have..."

"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid."

gigi

Sat, 05/12/2012 - 20:04

Yes, we are the unwashed masses. We remind you of how far superior your life, your morality and your recovery is. We keep you sober. But for the grace of God...

"If I forget who I am, I am myself. If I remember who I am, I am you."

Pennywise's picture

Pennywise

Sat, 05/12/2012 - 19:48

No one has skewed your responses from what i've seen.

"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid."

Clara's picture

Clara

Sat, 05/12/2012 - 19:52

That isn't true. JR rewrote them regularly to include adulterous relationships with my sponsor and anything else he could think of, including abuses on my husband. I don't seem to think any of this is necessary. Then, of course, Cause delights in it and untruth becomes some sort of factoid.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

JR Harris's picture

JR Harris

Sat, 05/12/2012 - 20:04

I mean you hang out with Clancy, the catalyst of Midtown in Washington DC. What do you expect?

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

Persephone In Exile's picture

Persephone In Exile

Sat, 05/12/2012 - 19:41

What was that exactly, Clara?

http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/

Clara's picture

Clara

Sat, 05/12/2012 - 19:49

Just my shock, PIE. I was refuting GiGi that I was ever here to defend AA or to 12 step anyone. I find this all to be amazing, really. I was glad when some older posts showed up on the forum when the back slashes were making their way into our posts due to some snafu, and my first post on my legal troubles appeared Feb. 23. On that same day, someone was accusing me a rewriting my story because I started detailing what those legal troubles were...

This has been an interesting past few hours. Penny doesn't believe me because of my introduction of Clancy at the Jamboree despite our photo taken at that very event. Gigi repeatedly tells me that I am not an alcoholic because I am an actor and not a clever one at that. I don't know what you are weighing in on... but it has been an "awakening".

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

JR Harris's picture

JR Harris

Sat, 05/12/2012 - 19:52

I'm just calling you a complete liar.....

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

gigi

Sat, 05/12/2012 - 19:56

She can't see you JR. You don't exist.

"If I forget who I am, I am myself. If I remember who I am, I am you."

JR Harris's picture

JR Harris

Sat, 05/12/2012 - 20:00

Then I can talk about her behind her back, just like many of the Al-Anon liars do to everyone else.

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

gigi

Sat, 05/12/2012 - 19:54

You're shocked? Really? You've had an awakening? Fascinating.

"If I forget who I am, I am myself. If I remember who I am, I am you."

Clara's picture

Clara

Sat, 05/12/2012 - 19:59

Wouldn't you be shocked, GiGi? These are ADULTS... Sober, recovered adults...

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

Pennywise's picture

Pennywise

Sat, 05/12/2012 - 20:00

Ok, well, I told you one way you could gain some significant credibility. Maybe you are for real. I'd give you the benefit of the doubt, but so much of what you say seems deliberately dense or too far off the wall to be believable.

"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid."

Clara's picture

Clara

Sat, 05/12/2012 - 20:07

Yes, but I am not in a position to give what I haven't got and my husband didn't feel the need to share. If a picture of me at an event isn't enough to dispell one thing you want to believe, I don't feel the need to do anything more.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

Pennywise's picture

Pennywise

Sat, 05/12/2012 - 20:10

How do we know that is you?

"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid."

Clara's picture

Clara

Sat, 05/12/2012 - 20:12

I guess the follow up photo says something, too. Can't you tell it is the same woman? Do you say the same thing about Ben and his photo?

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

Pennywise's picture

Pennywise

Sat, 05/12/2012 - 20:18

I cannot really tell. What did Clancy talk about? What did he say at the very end of his speech?

"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid."

JR Harris's picture

JR Harris

Sat, 05/12/2012 - 20:36

That appears to be a very large Jamboree. It was actually for Al-Anon and Alateen and AA El Paso just hosted it. I wonder how much each ticket was for, and how much Clancy got for being a speaker? At $19 a ticket, that would still be over a 1,000 people........

Al-Anon, 1,000 people........ doesn't know what they were talking about. Clancy would have been a keynote speaker. She didn't know about Clancy and his MidTown past.....

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

Pennywise's picture

Pennywise

Sat, 05/12/2012 - 20:41

If you bought your ticket in advance it was $35 for the event and $70 for the event plus the meal. If you bought your ticket at the door it was $45. No banquet tickets were available for purchase at the door.

"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid."

JR Harris's picture

JR Harris

Sat, 05/12/2012 - 20:46

So the person who was going to announce Clancy didn't show up and they paid $35-$70 for the event (I am sure no refunds were given) and they just happened to choose a newbie from Myrtle Beach to announce the key speaker at an Al-Anon event?

Very interesting, I wonder if they were serving crab bisque soup?

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

Pennywise's picture

Pennywise

Sat, 05/12/2012 - 20:59

Indeed, J.R. You have to wonder why they would be so worried about finding someone reliable who would "show up." Usually the person who does the introductions is long term member of the committee who has already demonstrated herself. Introducing Clancy is one of the highest honors in AA.

"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid."

Clara's picture

Clara

Sat, 05/12/2012 - 21:11

It's a three day commitment, Penny. Clancy is also not known to be the easiest of people. I was pleased to get the gig.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

Clara's picture

Clara

Sat, 05/12/2012 - 20:41

He spoke of a lot things, Penny. He talked about being one of the first patients in an alcohol ward here in EP, how he worked at a paper here and in advertising. Brought up his children here (one is a judge in Albuqurque and in the fellowship. She was present). He spoke of the death of his baby son and how his promise to him wasn't enough to give up the booze (he was drunk when he died). He lost a friend's car in Juarez (as well as his teeth) and he woke up in jail. He spoke of his sponsor for 27 years, Chuck Chamberlin. He closed with a thank you and "God bless you" just after he reminded us of page 60, that no has been able to maintain anything like perfect adherence to these principles, etc. but to continue to be willing to grow along spiritual lines.

Everyone clapped, I closed and gave him his gift bag. His daughter was given some recognition and there you have it.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

Pennywise's picture

Pennywise

Sat, 05/12/2012 - 20:44

Where was Clancy when his son died?

"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid."

Pennywise's picture

Pennywise

Sat, 05/12/2012 - 21:01

He lost a friend's car in Juarez (as well as his teeth) and he woke up in jail.

How did he lose his teeth? How did he get the car?

"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid."

Clara's picture

Clara

Sat, 05/12/2012 - 21:04

I think he was supposed to be taking the car to CA. I believe he was drunk and again in jail with the baby died, but am not really sure if he said. But he hated God after that was was never going to believe in Him again.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

Pennywise's picture

Pennywise

Sat, 05/12/2012 - 21:05

This is correct.

"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid."

Pennywise's picture

Pennywise

Sat, 05/12/2012 - 21:10

I tell you what, Clara. I don't take anything off these boards, and I wouldn't do it unless you said it is OK. You have my word on this. Anyway, do I have your permission to try and verify this with someone who was at the Jamboree?

Edit: It's possible I would have to use your photo, and again, I'd never do that unless you specifically told me I could.

"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid."

Clara's picture

Clara

Sat, 05/12/2012 - 21:16

Sure. Ask the person if the woman on the dais had short brown hair, a pink top and was accompanied by a bald guy. My husband did the reading. I have put the photo online and you are free to use it. You might also ask your friend if Linda G. was the chairperson as she is the one that gave me the assignment.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

Pennywise's picture

Pennywise

Sat, 05/12/2012 - 21:20

Cool! I'm sure no one will know anything about Linda G. and really that's not important. I think you might have redeemed yourself here.

"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid."

Clara's picture

Clara

Sat, 05/12/2012 - 21:22

Gosh, thanks. I think.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

Pennywise's picture

Pennywise

Sat, 05/12/2012 - 21:31

Clara, I'll still attack your positions left and right. That's just business here. But it makes a difference knowing that you are a serious poster and not a faker. I don't care about hurting the feelings of made-up characters, but I don't want to belittle real people.

"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid."

Persephone In Exile's picture

Persephone In Exile

Sat, 05/12/2012 - 20:02

Clara, sorry, no idea why that posted where it did. I was replying to this comment:
http://www.orange-papers.org/forum/comment/34170#comment-34170

http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/

Clara's picture

Clara

Sat, 05/12/2012 - 20:08

You'll have to give me more, PIE. The thread is getting big...

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

Persephone In Exile's picture

Persephone In Exile

Sat, 05/12/2012 - 20:13

I'm off to bed. But this is what I had commented regarding:

"Look how sensitive PIE got when the exercise was turned around on her?"

I'm obviously too exhausted to remember what that would've referred to....and too tired to stay awake now...nighty night;)

http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/

JR Harris's picture

JR Harris

Sat, 05/12/2012 - 16:26

It's in the Scripture....

Step 12- Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to alcoholics, and to practice these principles in all our affairs.

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

Persephone In Exile's picture

Persephone In Exile

Sat, 05/12/2012 - 16:58

Clara, just out of curiosity, why are you arguing the points of it here, then? Shouldn't you be out there somewhere else trying to reach the "spiritually sick" and "still suffering" alcoholics who are actually willing to hear your message? No one here wants any part of that.

http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/

Clara's picture

Clara

Sat, 05/12/2012 - 17:22

If you don't want my opinions, don't ask me any questions, PIE. It's pretty simple, yet people make polls about me, forums, blogs and anything else they can think of.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

JR Harris's picture

JR Harris

Sat, 05/12/2012 - 17:26

Are you coming on a forum that knows much more about AA than you and we can prove it? Do you then just give the lame excuse that it doesn't happen in your group? Do you make up impossible to believe stories and change them constantly?

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

becket's picture

becket

Sun, 05/13/2012 - 00:59

You only know what you read. Other people's experiences and dramas populate your mind's theater. You are almost legit.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

Persephone In Exile's picture

Persephone In Exile

Sat, 05/12/2012 - 19:42

I was just trying to sharpen that point for you.

http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/

becket's picture

becket

Sun, 05/13/2012 - 01:13

What percentage would you say have been smacked in the face with enlightenment and they did not heed the call, Professor? Ten percent? Eighty percent? Are all the people in AA so fucking stupid they wouldn't know respite when it came to call?

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

btnben's picture

btnben

Sat, 05/12/2012 - 08:33

Which newcomer would want a sponsor who hadn't had one? Spiritual awakenings are necessary to resell the lies.

God damn it, get me a whiskey

Bill W, Deathbed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc

Unhinged

Sat, 05/12/2012 - 08:46

Exactly!

massive's picture

massive

Tue, 05/15/2012 - 23:53

Some get it right away. Most do not and feel like they are fucking up and not doing it right. Eventually the Pink CLoud leaves and reality sets in and boy that sucks!

Massive

mfc66uk

Wed, 05/16/2012 - 01:36

I think the pink cloud thing is a desultory of actually having the courage to do something about your drinking and the feeling that there is a solution rather than any spiritual enlightenment. When the so called solution which is basically a load of faith healing rubbish does not help a person and they have no drink to turn to , depression can set in. This can lead to serious problems including suicide and is a good reason why AA is not suitable for many who try it.

Unhinged

Sat, 05/12/2012 - 08:09

Thanks avogadno.

You answered my questions and gave me the description of a spiritual experience.

I'm going to have to buy the BIg Book and have a read.

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