Uncomplicating things...step by step.

Submitted by gigi on Tue, 05/01/2012 - 09:50

Over on Humanspirit\'s blog, Causeandeffect commented that every step and every aspect of the program should be scrutinized. I agree and thought the obvious place to start would be with the first step.

Step One: We admitted that we were powerless over alcohol and our lives had become unmanageable.

Powerlessness. That one word is what I find the most disturbing and detrimental about the whole program of AA. I have no power. I have no control. I have no say. I am at the mercy of everyone and everything. I am nothing. I must be taken care of. I must be told what to do. I am not capable. I am not smart. I am not worthy. I can\'t do it!!! I am powerless.
What does it mean to admit powerlessness? Is it really as soul crushing and self defeating as I see it? Or is it simply a way to open the door to a new way of thinking? And what does that new way of thinking entail?

Below is a list of questions pertaining to step one. I answered and asked these once a week, every week, for a year, in an AA group.
*Dear God, please set aside everything that I think I know, so that I may have an open mind.*

My way of living gets me scared, alone, drunk and suicidal.
Do I have the desperation of a drowning man tonight?
(Physical problem)
When I start drinking do I have little control over the amount I take? When drinking, do I crave another drink, then another...?
(mental problem)
Have I ever tried to quit entirely and found that I started again, no matter how many promises I made, willpower I tried to summon...DUI\'s, jails,rehabs, meetings, family conflict etc...
(unmanageability)
Am I having trouble with: family? friends? jobs? mood swings? depression? anger? loneliness? fear/anxiety? uselessness?
Based on everything I\'ve considered here, can I now say that I am powerless over alcohol and my life is unmanageable?
Am I an alcoholc?

So, there\'s the step one that I experienced. And boy oh boy did I feel powerless. Scrutinize away!

Comments

JR Harris's picture

JR Harris

Fri, 05/04/2012 - 09:14

Especially ones that are court mandated to get a Sponsor within 60 days or go to jail.

"Dustin Shawn Williams, 27, of Atlanta, aggravated assault with a deadly weapon (community supervision modified); modification to include 90 days ISF, attend two Alcoholics/Narcotics Anonymous meetings weekly, retain a sponsor within 60 days, complete the Cass County Aftercare Program, and obtain employment."

Read all about it: http://orange-papers.org/forum/node/1346

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

Persephone In Exile's picture

Persephone In Exile

Fri, 05/04/2012 - 09:16

That's how I feel Clara, which is why I didn't take too well to 12 step programs or rehab.

http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/

Brett

Fri, 05/04/2012 - 13:51

think a 6 pak makes a binge either, they don't think social drinkers are alcoholics, they don't think being a shit house driver is a symptom of "alcoholism"
6 bloody beers, get a life, get a real job

Brett

patti

Fri, 05/04/2012 - 09:23

adults don't beg, sure they do, every second, every moment, every day!!! that's reality Clara. didn't you pray & beg God to take over your life & will & cure you in 24 hour increments. Isn't praying, @ times begging? Anyway Clara, dear, back to the discussion, will you please tell me your thought's & feelings regarding the questions & issues I have asked your opinions on? You have the floor & my undivided attention, please Dear, tell me how you feel regarding said issues & questions. I am genuinely interested in your thoughts & feelings, please share?

patti

Clara's picture

Clara

Fri, 05/04/2012 - 09:29

Patti, you don't seem to understand that I don't care about having your undivided attention. You seem to want mine. My opinions are on this board, and you can read any posts I have written.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

JR Harris's picture

JR Harris

Fri, 05/04/2012 - 09:54

Why are you the highest individual poster on this board? Sorry, your argument is false, go back 2 Steps and repeat as necessary.

Step 10 - "Continued to take personal inventory, and when we were wrong, promptly admitted it."

Those pesky moral maladies.

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

patti

Fri, 05/04/2012 - 09:26

adults don't beg, really? thanks for the information, what about the dude the 40 year old in CA. who requested & pleaded not to be placed in a religious rehab program. Pleading & begging are one the same. That guy had to plead to a judge to not have his religious rights & freedom denied & trampled upon.

patti

Persephone In Exile's picture

Persephone In Exile

Fri, 05/04/2012 - 11:04

I just wanted to add an RIP here for Adam MCA Yauch. I was never the biggest Beasties fan, but this is just really, really sad. Not drug/alcohol related, so I didn't start a new thread.

http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/

patti

Fri, 05/04/2012 - 11:41

Clara,

you are stone walling, please tell me how you feel & the opinions regarding the questions I've asked. Please answer. I don't see why not? Why not?

patti

Clara's picture

Clara

Fri, 05/04/2012 - 11:55

Patti, I am not stonewalling. I am just not interested in a discussion with you. I've answered these questions already.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

patti

Fri, 05/04/2012 - 11:46

J. R.,
besides the two incidences we cited. Can you imagine how many adult's have begged to stop feeling abused & insane due to AA & their psycho babble & the abuse, mental, emotional & sexual. I can't believe Clara actually thinks or writes adults don't beg, how about when an adult's child is in agony & suffering tremendously, Clara wouldn't believe how much an adult can beg then.

patti

patti

Fri, 05/04/2012 - 12:00

Clara,
you are having a discussion with me, you are always interested in having a discussion with me, you discuss my post's with me always. Clara, you are stonewalling, please just answer the ?'s I asked you, now a few hour's ago. Please, I would genuinely like to know how you feel & your opinions on the issues? Like, I wrote earlier, why not? Why not share your feelings & opinions? The objective of this forum is to discuss, please discuss.

patti

humanspirit

Fri, 05/04/2012 - 13:49

Don't waste your keystrokes. Trying to engage Clara in any kind of intelligent debate or trying to keep her on-topic is like trying to unblock your toilet with a wet bus ticket. She is not interested in serious debate, she is actually no longer a member of AA as she no longer attends AA meetings, and (my take) she is just here obsessively posting in order to impress the husband she met in AA and for whom she gave up her job to become a housewife.

(Don't worry if this sounds bitchy - Clara's husband has blocked her from reading any of my posts, so she won't read it and feel offended.)

I've appreciated many of your comments on these pages, patti. But don't waste your time trying to have a serioua discussion with Clara. It's not going to happen, and I'm not sure she's even capable of it.

causeandeffect's picture

causeandeffect

Fri, 05/04/2012 - 14:04

Humanspirit, I second that. It is a waste of time, and space on this forum. If you get an answer at all it will just be some Pollyanna babble. But mostly you'll just get, "I already answered that, read my posts." Like anybody wishes to go back months and read everything she's ever written to see what she said. What I wish is that we could get less comments, not more. Love the wet bus ticket, BTW. LOL!

Troll free AA critical forum
http://www.expaa.org/

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it." ~ Neil deGrasse Tyson

humanspirit

Fri, 05/04/2012 - 14:44

I'm not sad enough to try and trace Clara's comments (even though this is what she demands of other people). But I noticed this the other day from a Clara post from February:

" I quit going to meetings because we relocated and I didn't like the meetings in that area."

Thenlater I remember that she said she only went to any meetings to support her husband, and recently she has been saying things like "Don't be silly - you know I go to meetings". Etc., etc. . . .

I do fnd it funny that our most persistent trolls - Clara and Becket - are no longer members of AA and therefore presumably do not believe that it is AA that is keeping them sober. But they still feel a compulsion to try to promote the AA message to other people. Stockhausen syndrome? What accounts for this very odd phenomenon?

causeandeffect's picture

causeandeffect

Fri, 05/04/2012 - 15:21

HS, I really have been baffled by that myself. On another forum that I've been neglecting these days (but there are plenty who have it well covered) there's one who complains she's not clean because she takes suboxone, or whatever, (her story has changed about her meds) and complains that she's misses AA. And Loves AA. But she doesn't go. I've encouraged her to go. But no. She'd prefer to be un"clean" and not go, and spend every day defending it. Then there was another one who posts far too much on too many threads on too many subjects to have time to go, yet he staunchly defends AA. He's since had his ass kicked on so many threads, including the AA one, he eventually just stopped and hasn't been seen since. You might remember him. His name is alfie, LOL.

Also, didn't danny say he no longer goes? Of course he did.

Troll free AA critical forum
http://www.expaa.org/

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it." ~ Neil deGrasse Tyson

Clara's picture

Clara

Fri, 05/04/2012 - 18:46

If she feels it is a problem within her group, why continue to discuss it? If she is part of a medical protocol, that is one thing. There were plenty of things i discussed with my sponsor but didn't bring into meetings. If she wants to go, please encourage her to see it a different way.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

Brett

Fri, 05/04/2012 - 14:04

Pls tell us how you managed to offend clara so much her husband blocked you, I must not be trying hard enough.

Brett

causeandeffect's picture

causeandeffect

Fri, 05/04/2012 - 14:47

I'm going to have to try a whoooole lot harder too. Sigh.

Troll free AA critical forum
http://www.expaa.org/

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it." ~ Neil deGrasse Tyson

dandammit's picture

dandammit

Fri, 05/04/2012 - 14:48

Hi Brett, I don't believe she blocked anyone. And how do you do that?
Why not just walk away from the computer?

humanspirit

Fri, 05/04/2012 - 15:03

Apparently Clara's husband blocked my posts, not Clara. I think this was because (as 50+ woman myself) I suggested that she might be wise to be somewhat cautious about a man who chooses his serial wives according to the quality of their sobriety (Wife no. 2 didn't hack it), and also to be cautious about a man who installs spy equipment on the phones and computers of his various wives.

Mr Clara clearly did not like this, and stopped her from reading my comments. Which is absolutely fine by me.

causeandeffect's picture

causeandeffect

Fri, 05/04/2012 - 15:10

Humanspirit, I suspect that Mr. Clara didn't want Mrs Clara asking to those kinds of questions and having those kinds of thoughts. I mean, if she becomes aware that this is his MO, how is he going to feign innocence with his next Mrs Mr Clara. She might just get smart and spill the beans. Can't have that happen.

Troll free AA critical forum
http://www.expaa.org/

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it." ~ Neil deGrasse Tyson

Brett

Fri, 05/04/2012 - 15:25

got clara, 2nd hand at an A.A meet, she was her attorneys left overs, they often pass women along in these clancy groups

Brett

Clara's picture

Clara

Fri, 05/04/2012 - 18:48

What are you babbling about?

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

patti

Fri, 05/04/2012 - 14:35

H.S. & C & E, I know you are both right, got it. Brett, lol, that is hysterical! And actually Clara & Beckett do more to make potential AA's think twice before joining, which is productive!!! It is like banging one' face against a brick wall, lol!

patti

mfc66uk

Fri, 05/04/2012 - 15:11

I have enjoyed your posts Patti as you make good points. I would not bother getting into dialogue with the trolls as it simply encourages them. I believe they think they are doing some bizarre form of service for AA but simply make themselves look stupid. the best thing to do with Clara's posts is not to bother reading them. If I ever see her stupid little picture by the side of a post I simply ignore it. You can guess what she has said anyway.

Clara's picture

Clara

Fri, 05/04/2012 - 18:50

MF, it just didn't make any sense to communicate with Patti when I have been over the very things she asked numerous times. It wasn't enough to just hear that. She had to continue to wheedle. It wasn't going to be a discussion, anway. It was pretty apparent she was looking for a fight.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

patti

Fri, 05/04/2012 - 19:37

Clara,
you didn't answer, you didn't respond, you didn't let us know your thought's, feelings or opinions, you discuss but only what you want to discuss, just like AA! No critical thinking, no response's, no mind of your own! You punked out. You fight all the time on this forum, you are always "not minding your own business". You punked out! No courage to speak your mind, your feelings, your thoughts, & then explain & debate your views. You wouldn't & couldn't step up! You wouldn't step & talk or give straight answers regarding what's in or on your mind!!! You don't have the courage to step up or speak up or tell your truth!!! It wasn't a fight, you are deflecting again. Do the right thing, Clara, step up & tell your truth, speak your mind, don't be voiceless. Answer the questions, just do it!!!

patti

Clara's picture

Clara

Fri, 05/04/2012 - 19:48

I can blog on a board. I just chose not to participate with you, Patti. What is this "us" bit? These people have been reading my posts for 2 months now. They know my opinions on those things.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

JR Harris's picture

JR Harris

Fri, 05/04/2012 - 20:02

Principals before personalities you know. But that is alright, your not a good AA member anyway and break many of the traditions on a daily basis. You should take your disclaimer down, anyone with half a brain would realize you don't speak for AA. You should do yourself a favor and put up a disclaimer that you are not a "good" AA member.

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

patti

Fri, 05/04/2012 - 20:01

No, we don't know your opinions, you won't answer the questions. Not going to go through your threads, not me, not anyone. You are getting an opportunity to tell us, me & every one on the forum the answer my questions. We are confused about your circumstance's, do you or don't you actively attend meetings, do you or don't you have a graduate degree in criminology, your thread's are contradictory. Was your lawyer your sponsor prior to the DUI, or after the DUI? Did your alcoholism involve only drinking 6 beers? Was that your binge, your rock bottom? You threaded that you have met a wonderful group of people from AA & are still friends with many of them & that AA has been a positive & wonderful experience for you, when do you interact with your AA friends? Do you daily thread or communicate with them? Just do it, Clara, just answer the questions I asked you hours earlier today? Speak your mind, your thoughts, your feelings, your opinions.

patti

Clara's picture

Clara

Fri, 05/04/2012 - 20:11

Patti, this information has already been posted, debated and discussed. Everybody has asked these questions and gotten the answers. I don't believe they are asking for a redux.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

patti

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 06:16

Clara,
how can an AAer be against repetition. the same words & sayings said over & over, reading chapters from the big book over & over @ meetings, the same stories over & over. If one supports AA, they are pro repeating & pro repetition. It is irrelevant whether these issue's have been discussed previously by any one on this forum, including you. Discuss again, please. Just do it! Just answer the questions, by now you could have answered them, instead of this avoidance. Please, just answer.

patti

patti

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 06:20

Clara,
Actually many forum users have written you do not answer questions. Not in the past & not in the present. This is your chance to answer & speak your mind. Please answer the questions. Speak & step up. Stepper, step up, please.

patti

Clara's picture

Clara

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 08:47

Patti, I have already answered the questions that you are asking, some event to you. Besides, I simply choose not to play. Now, you can do a day on it if you wish.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

JR Harris's picture

JR Harris

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 08:52

You haven't answered any of these questions and you have painted yourself into a corner of deceit. You don't belong in the cult of confession called Alcoholics Anonymous if you don't play by the rules.

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

jonnijoy's picture

jonnijoy

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 08:34

Is Patti jealous of Clara? Hmm Kinda looks that way, funny a girl bully complaining about how abused she was in that mean ole AA.

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