The Big Plan

I will never attend another AA meeting; I will never change my mind.

Think!

You will never get to walk into another AA club again.
You will never get to go to the Friday morning AA meeting again.
You will never get to brag about how long you have been sober again.
You will never get to rescue another alcoholic again.
You will never get another call from people you know in AA again.
You will never get to read the Big Book again.
You will never get to feel the power you have over the many who fail in AA again.
You will never get to pontificate at the meetings again.
You will never be the big Guru again.
You will never have the attention that you get at AA meeting again.
You will never be asked for your advice again.
You will never get to forgive those who fail again.
You will never get to go to meeting with other alcoholics again.
You will never get to go to the AA conventions again.
You will never get to start another AA group again.
You will never get to greet the members as they come in the door again.
You will never get to feel that they will be glad they knew you again.
You will never get to go to the Christmas eve or New Years eve all night meetings again.
You will never get to think they will say what a good AA you were when you die.
You will never get to go to the 7 am meeting again.
You will never get to start over in AA again.
You will never be asked to give an open talk again.
You will never be the chairperson at the group again.
You will never be the coffee maker at the meeting again.
You will never be a sponsor to the new person again.

Why don’t you do this for several months and then go. Just think how glad they will be to see you again.

You don’t really want to stop going to {AA} now do you?

I think that about covers it.
Sober-man

Comments

JR Harris's picture

about 6 years ago. I had never had any experience with the cult for half of a century. I had heard of them, but never knew anyone that belonged or the vast cult support system they had evolved into. They are the scourge of modern time cults and the cockroaches crawl into every part of your life if you let them. Run away if you can.

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

Absolutely. There are benefits to cult religion. It took 20 years for all these perks to completely run its course and I reached a point where it was making me completely miserable. I believe you forgot the applause, hugs and birthday cake as you approach the podium (to give God the credit, of course) in celebration of another successful year of sobriety.
Funny, but now it makes me all sick to my stomach and I don't miss it at all. Especially the guru and "spirituality" crap. However, a couple of the points you made are things I still do. About once or twice a month I meet an old buddy at the AA club and we shoot pool together. I still get phone calls from about 5 steppers who I stay in touch with. There is an alternating group of steppers that I occasionally go hiking with. My wife has stepper friends that I go out to eat almost every Friday evening.
I have been to one meeting (last month) in the last 2 years.... I totally hated it. I did it for my friend who wanted me there when he got his chip. I do not believe in receiving chips, I believe in moving on.
Good stuff Soberman.

There is still one AA member that I am in contact with.
I met him after about 6 months of sobriety.

He was standing out side the meeting and I invited him to go in with me,
We became good friends. I became his sponsor.
He has been sober now for ober 41 years.

He never contacts me.
The only time we see each othr is in April when he does my income tax.

He is hooked for life.
Sober-man
PS: We never mention AA while we are together.

nukefreekiwi's picture

I also stay in conact with a member of AA/NA if for no other reason but to remind me of the madness of 12 step "recovery". I assume I must be an enigma to him having aquired just as much sober time on my own as he has managed with his mindnumbing cult. He must look at me, my pregnant wife, my infant son (2 and a half year old), my home, stable job with career opportunities with curious disbelief. My life represents the antithesis of the 12 step fable about alcohlics/drug addicts who do it on their own. Im almost positive he comes around hoping to spot some crack in my "recovery" , looking for imaginary flaws in my otherwise "normal"life, trying to peel away the tidy facade and uncover the oft touted nightmare (pffft!!!) of whiteknuckle sobriety. LOL!!!

I went to a meet last night, my first for over 18mths for no other reason than to watch the madness thru now seeing eyes. It was basically a rehab meet 25 people only 3 not including myself, all from the local rehab, all bar two were younsters trying to dodge jail ect, bloody most were bearley old enough to shave. & the chairpersons share was priceleess, all about how we wouldn't want to know her when see was using, 6& a half yrs of recovery & I wouldn't want to know her now, jesus there was more sickness there in becketfuls than they have up the hospital, & the grubs just wallow in it, o the powerlessness, bloody spinless grubs just need bit honest yakka to set 'em right, bloody prob is if yer were a enployer yu'd do it urself be4 yu'd give any of 'em a job. unemployed & unemployable they dont need a program they need boot camp.

Brett

becket's picture

Wonder what any of this post from Brett means. Seems like he feels a need to go to a meeting to measure his relative "sanity" against that of those in rehab. Who needs such validation? Ah: a sick individual.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

& as always I found it wanting, I aint sick, it's you that professors to be disease Beckit of shit, fk off & get a real job ya spineless bludger.

Brett

becket's picture

You are wrong, Brett. I do not spew "disease" theory. I have questioned the validity of that premise for a long time, and I have done so in writing on this forum. If you're going to try to look smart and savvy when confronting the enemy, you should know what the enemy's stance is. Or you could just continue on the way you have been and look like a halfwit.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

In A.A you are all diseased, it's a central & essential part of the prog. Besides it's obvious your more than a little sick. Get a job ya bludger

Brett

Clara's picture

Perhaps that is fine with him, Sober. You've never answered what kept youin there so long. There is a story somewhere, I'm sure, and it is probably as simple as my own. I was getting something out of it.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

massive's picture

Soberman- do you feel you could benefit from an ex stepper trauma support group thats more social? Im gonna create one through meet ups on the internet.
massive

I feel you man. Im gonna go to one and film it. Im bringing a group with me.

Massive

Question: do you feel you could benefit from an ex stepper trauma support group thats more social?
Sober-man: No, I think for me it would be a waste of my time.
Soberman

massive's picture

I hate AA today. Im so sick of it all. I went to a site where they have the National Assoc of Drug Court Professionals. OMG I wanted to throw up. I have changed my mind. I dont want to go to another meeting even to do my activist work for my film. Im sick of it all.

Massive

Clara's picture

So... who do you think will air your film? What is the real purpose of it other than to give you a job and a purpose? Why not admit that it is yet another vanity project just to provide catharsis for you?

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

live_free_or_die's picture

AA was started as a fraud and a sham by a conman in the 1930's so that he would not have to hold a real job the rest of his life.

Bill W saw an opportunity through his involvement with the Oxford Group whereby he could dupe desperate and truly needy people into buying a book he fraudulently copyrighted in his own name. A book that started a new hokey religion that claims only god can maybe cure you of "alcoholism". This new hokey religion allowed Bill W to live a comfortable life and fuck women that weren't his wife.

This hokey religion also enabled Bill W to sexually intimidate and manipulate malleable women into having sex with him, even though he was a married man. It seems that Bill W had an addiction to sex as well as alcohol and nicotine. It's funny that god only could (or would) help Bill W with his "disease" of "alcoholism" and not his diseases of sexism and nicotinism. I wonder how many woman Bill W caused to suicide? How many has Clancy I or Mike Q caused to suicide?

Maybe Lois W was a lesbian or was frigid. Who knows with all of the contrived history that has been written concerning Bill W and AA?

I look forward to seeing massive's film. Exposing AA for what it is, a hokey secret culty religion that turns its back on the vulnerable and depressed substance abuser and allows criminal activity to continue in and around the hallowed roomz of AA across the US.

Let go, Let god. Keep coming back. It works if you work it. Your best thinking got ya here.

AA is a deceptive, immoral organization. AA kills people.

What is the real purpose of AA?

Alcoholics Anonymous: MyNotGodHasItCovered®
http://www.expaa.org/
http://bereanresearch.com/
http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/
NOT AA:
Rational Recovery, SOS, HAMS
http://alcoholabusesolutions.com/

becket's picture

Suicide is not a verb.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

btnben's picture

For Roberto Calvi under Blackfriars Bridge...lol

God damn it, get me a whiskey

Bill W, Deathbed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc

causeandeffect's picture

Yes it is. Look it up.

Troll free AA critical forum
http://www.expaa.org/

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it." ~ Neil deGrasse Tyson

dolson's picture

So... who do you think will air your film?

I am sure she has a plan and a medium in mind, what concern is that of yours anyhow clarietta?

What is the real purpose of it other than to give you a job and a purpose?

Spoken like a true malcontent. Her personal feelings and purpose, are her business. They're none of yours troll.

Why not admit that it is yet another vanity project just to provide catharsis for you?

You are one to be throwing stones steptard. I would be very interested to view her film. Creating is a catharsis for many artists. You fail to understand this, because you do not have an original thought of your own. You simply troll the forum and insert your noxious rhetoric upon every post.

You should be spending your time more wisely. Perhaps writing a phony thesis for your fake master's degree clarietta.

Go ahead, enjoy yourselves - it's getting late, much later than you think.

Persephone In Exile's picture

Clara, what exactly is your problem with Massive? You get unusually snippy when replying to her and on a seemingly personal level. Do you mind sharing why Massive's work seems to upset you so much?

I've noticed Clara's pretty overt and implacable hostility to Massive too. I've got my own theories about this, but don't want to derail the thread by going into them.

Clara's picture

Nothing to theorize over, HS.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

Clara's picture

It doesn't upset me. I just found her to be rather pathetic. She came running to the forum to invite everyone to go to her blog to beat up on a woman that had a contrary view to hers. I found everyone that posted to have something of value to contribute, including the woman Massive wanted bullied for having the audacity to discuss personal accountability to the topic - 13 stepping. IMO, Massive behaved childishly toward those opposing her, shrillingly telling people not to come back and that she would call the police if they did ... and I thought she was unnecessarily personal and rude to me when she had invited us to be there.

But it is a good question. What does she really expect her "documentary" to do other than sit in the can? She wants to go into AA meetings with her cameras. What is the point in that? She thinks she is going to swoop into Holly Hill and "bring in" her cameras, as if that gives anyone any kind of power or will make the Sunrise Group go elsewhere? Can't she see what Anti-denial's own group's cameras show? A group of people minding their own business. I've read her remarks on other blogs, and I believe she was actually behind the recent Huff piece by Laura. Laura wasn't asked by anyone at Huff and she was going to tell me who asked her to if she had permission to tell me. Permission not granted, but she agreed that she had been approached with the idea. I realize that Monica had a tough time, spending decades in a program that she didn't want to be in... When we are in the rooms and we hear things such as that... the response is the same. "Why did you stay?" There are going to be some that will agree with her, others that won't and it is dismissed with a shrug and an eyeroll...because most AAs know that AA isn't the only way to get sober nor has it ever claimed to be. But Monica doesn't seem to understand that she is as in AA as she has ever been. She may feel "empowered" but I have to wonder how she possibly could feel empowered. She goes to these other meetings under the guise of investigating options, but then comes back here with a breathless report about how she told them of her experiences with AA. She says the same thing about AA meetings she attends. She sure told them, all right. Why not just admit that this has little to do with alternatives? Otherwise, I would think you'd patiently listen and not make the meeting about your and your angst with AA, yet that is how it is always delivered by her to us. She just posted how she hates going to AA meetings. Well, who is making Monica go? No one but Monica.

These are amateur efforts at best. I listened to one of her blogs, the one with Keeper, and it is obviously self-produced. I hope that she gets more expertise for her documentary. I thought something should have been asked of Keeper, and my question would have been to ask her why she never thought it was weird that her son had been given a 700k inheritance by someone he didn't really know for long and wasn't related to... I can't tell you how much on my radar those people would have been. I also don't know why Keeper wouldn't run her own check on the man. There have been online capabilities for a long time, used primarily for employment. But I realize that Monica is not an investigative reporter and the only qualification to be on her show is to be anti-AA. What I heard from Keeper was the continuation of step work. I didn't get that she was against AA, actually.

There you have it!

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

What a tirade! QED, I think, people.

Did she get the better of you in an argument once, Clara? Is that why you are so obsessed and embittered?

Clara's picture

I don't think so, HS. I can't think of where either of us "bettered" the other in any argument. I did ask her to remove me from her blog as I thought the deportment was unprofessional when I saw it for what it was. I was rather embarrassed that I had participated.

"QED", HS? Don't know what that means, and I am not obsessed or embittered. I just feel that Monica is a professional victim and really has no reason to be. The door to AA works both ways, and anyone can leave. I don't understand staying for 35 years in anything you don't like or derive benefit from... I have also asked Soberman why he stayed so long for the same reason.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

Look it up in a dictionary.

Of course you're not obsessed or embittered, dear, as your very extensive diatribe so plainly shows. But remember that the "literature" says that people like yourself should leave their anger to those better able to handle it, and anything that disturbs you about other people's behaviour is merely a reflection of your own inadequacies. How about rejoining AA and addressing these issues of yours? Whatever your problem is with Massive, I sincerely hope you don't drink over it.

Clara's picture

I was asked. Sorry that you feel I am so verbose, but what the heck! But no dice here, HS. I am not angry. Rather intrigued by the constant blame, but the one that should address anger and concern over drink would be Monica herself. Whose refrain is always about hate?

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

Isn't that what AA people (or AA-people-by-proxy in your case, as you no longer attend) would call taking another person's inventory?

And of course you're not angry, dear. You are serenity incarnate, as is plain for everyone to see.

Clara's picture

Again, HS, anything to not state the truth. On one hand, you acknowledge that I go to meetings to support my husband yet you say that I am an AA by proxy and no longer attend. QED, indeed.

In AA, you are a member if you say you are. That I don't go to meetings daily any longer has nothing to do with it.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

avogadno's picture

It's called brainwashing. Fear of dying. Being subjected to the lies at a young age and living them for 35 years. You would be angry too, but I don't think you will ever be able to admit that you are brainwashed. Can't face that reality. My opinion of course.

Pro Empowerment!
Truth about AA: http://orange-papers.org/menu1.html
Expose AA: http://www.expaa.org/

Clara's picture

I am not so sure, Avo. Sober doesn't feel brainwashed and he went for years, although he didn't follow the program and doesn't seem hateful or victimized. I found something that worked for me and was positive. It isn't the same way here, so my participation is much more limited... But I wish someone had simply told her to go her own way. It isn't as if someone has to give you permission to do that. I've said that to people before.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

JR Harris's picture

How to become a Clancy Groupie and get closer to the Sponsor that brought Midtown to the Alcoholics Anonymous Fellowship, following in the footsteps of Bill Wilson and making a bundle?

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

avogadno's picture

No, they just tell you that you will die if you do leave.

I don't know what's up with Soberman. I don't talk to him much.

Pro Empowerment!
Truth about AA: http://orange-papers.org/menu1.html
Expose AA: http://www.expaa.org/

Persephone In Exile's picture

She didn't simply "run over here" for support though, she does post here and also runs two blogs on the subject....and a radio show.

Why on earth do you think Monica provoked the HuffPo piece? Do you seriously think there is no one else out there in the addiction field who is critical of 12 step methods? Stanton Peele writes all the time, and also writes for HuffPo. Do you think someone is "behind" his efforts? The author of the HuffPo piece is still commenting on it, actually, and mentions Peele quite a bit. Perhaps she was inspired by him? Who knows.

You're a bit emotional when it comes to Massive is all.

Clara's picture

Gosh, no, I think there are many people that are critical of it and some of that is justified. Just a number of things, but especially the willingness to disclose that she had been asked to submit it to Huff and who asked her but then the sudden clam up. Laura and Monica both blog on Anti's dreary piece in Florida, and all three were on Huff in force. It was almost predictable. Just a hunch.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

Persephone In Exile's picture

I was also on HuffPo "in force" also, and I can assure you, I've never heard of Laura Tompkins prior to that piece. Did she offer to tell you in the comments or privately? Just curious. I'd not seen her at the other site, but I have at The Fix.

Clara's picture

I think everyone on this forum was there, PIE. She told me in comments that are still there. Does anyone have any idea if she is licensed in CA?

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

Clara's picture

Gosh, no, I think there are many people that are critical of it and some of that is justified. Just a number of things, but especially the willingness to disclose that she had been asked to submit it to Huff and who asked her but then the sudden clam up. Laura and Monica both blog on Anti's dreary piece in Florida, and all three were on Huff in force. It was almost predictable. Just a hunch.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

JR Harris's picture

Having a new pro-AA poster that claims to have an opposite sex sponsor which is pretty much a no-no in all AA groups I have ever seen of or heard about. Having a new pro-AA poster that is a Clancy Groupie that has an opposite sex sponsor that is the standard mark of the MidTown Groups that Clancy started with his Pacific Group. Having a new pro-AA poster that has an opposite sex sponsor that just happens to be a Lawyer for confidentiality reasons that she doesn't do her 4th and 5th Step with. Having a new pro-AA poster that has a master degree in Criminal Justice, but doesn't know anything about the law. Having a new pro-AA poster that travels on Easter weekends all over the country in time spans that would be impossible. Having that same pro-AA poster going to the Huffington post under a different name and fighting the same battle there as here.

Just a hunch, but that pro-AA poster is pulling everyone's leg......

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

causeandeffect's picture

Uh huh, JR, and now she's trying to claim that she didn't go to AA in DC, which we all know she said before. Now she's trying to claim that her first meeting were in Myrtle Beach, while we know her sponsor told her to move from DC to SC to get away from her party environment (who'd wanna party with her?) She's just trying to divorce herself from the midtown disgrace.

Troll free AA critical forum
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"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it." ~ Neil deGrasse Tyson

Clara's picture

I never said that. I have asked you to provide the post and you cannot. I didn't go to AA in DC,a nd I have never been to midtown. You delight in being wrong. I left DC 10 years before I got into AA.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

JR Harris's picture

When first we practice to deceive........ Clara, your constantly making up new stories. Your going to get burned by it because you have to keep making up stories to coverup the old ones. It also isn't very Spiritual. No need to comment, I'll give you your usual stock answers.

I never did that.
I never said that.
It wasn't me, you are mistaken.
I'm not in denial.
You're just angry.
You're just wrong.

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

causeandeffect's picture

JR, you forgot clara's favorite, show me the post. Like anyone is going to wade through pages and pages, probably thousands of post, just to find her lies and present them to her. She said she went to AA in DC shortly after she arrived here and didn't deny it at all until she started to realize the disgrace from whence she came. I'd keep track of her lies, but one never knows what she'll lie about next. Who cares anyway? We all remember she told us about DC and her sponsor. I have no need to prove her that she's a liar. Also, she often claims to have answered questions when she hasn't, but do you think she'll show you the post from even that day? No, because she's a liar and she never answered it.

Troll free AA critical forum
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"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it." ~ Neil deGrasse Tyson

Clara's picture

It's because I didn't say that, Cause. I had never heard of Midtown. The only time I ever brought up living in DC was in response to an article cited that was written by Marc Fisher, a man I used to drink with at the Child Harold in DC. Because I know of his sensationalistic style, I didn't bother with the article.

You are simply wrong, my dear.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

JR Harris's picture

What are the probabilities of:

1. An opposite sex sponsor, even though that is taboo in ANY of the "real" fellowships.
2. The opposite sex sponsor is a lawyer, there are lots of those in the rooms to go around.
3. A Clancy groupie that has never heard of Midtown or the dangers of opposite sex partners.
4. Didn't do their step 4 or 5 with Sponsor. I can't think of any reason to have one.
5. Knows Marc Fisher (drinking buddies) personally and has never heard of Midtown.
6. Has a masters degree in Criminal Justice but knows nothing about laws.
7. Has her own personal time machine to be able to travel across the country on Easter Weekend.
8. Has selective memory lapses.
9. Claims she is not in denial.

This isn't a room full of newcomers, your making a complete idiot out of yourself. That is OK though, it's boosting internet traffic to this site by the the people coming here to see the Stepper make a fool out of herself.

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

causeandeffect's picture

Ahhhh, the victim card. It’s the only card in AA parlance that is more insulting to them than the anger card. It’s said with utter contempt dripping from their mouths like a thick string of mucus. Absolutely disgusting. Just know, clara and marietta, whatever contempt you have for victims, I hold 10 times that for you for saying that about a woman who lost her son. All civility is hereby canceled. It’s on bitch.

BTW, try, just try, to get your stories straight. You said “the only qualification to be on her show is to be anti-AA. What I heard from Keeper was the continuation of step work. I didn't get that she was against AA, actually.” You contradict yourself from one sentence to the next. And we see through your lies. All of them.

Troll free AA critical forum
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"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it." ~ Neil deGrasse Tyson

Clara's picture

It's not a contradiction, Cause. This woman had a a horrible thing happen to her family with the death of her son and Monica is always trying to make a connection to AA and any evil. That is why the woman was on the show. But I didn't take away from it that Keeper was necessarily down on AA and the help it can provide for those that are there for that.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

btnben's picture

Telling someone you are not contradicting them?...lol

God damn it, get me a whiskey

Bill W, Deathbed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc

JR Harris's picture

It is also called a catch 22:

Among other things, Catch-22 is a general critique of bureaucratic operation and reasoning. Resulting from its specific use in the book, the phrase "Catch-22" is common idiomatic usage meaning "a no-win situation" or "a double bind" of any type. Within the book, "Catch-22" is a military rule, the self-contradictory circular logic that, for example, prevents anyone from avoiding combat missions.

Yossarian comes to realize that Catch-22 does not actually exist, but because the powers that be claim it does, and the world believes it does, it nevertheless has potent effects. Indeed, because it does not exist, there is no way it can be repealed, undone, overthrown, or denounced. The combination of force with specious and spurious legalistic justification is one of the book's primary motifs.

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catch_22#Concept

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

causeandeffect's picture

Ben, she's contradicting herself, yet. a. gain.

Troll free AA critical forum
http://www.expaa.org/

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it." ~ Neil deGrasse Tyson

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