AA Sponsors' "No Meds" stance over the years.

I haven't been to many different NA meetings. The small one was pretty specialized in that it had direct ties to about 6 sober homes, a Suboxone/Methadone clinic and the courts sent people there as a halfway house and I think most everyone was there from drug court. It was actually kind of strange and only one or two normally had over a year and used the clubhouse as a kind of office. One guy collected metal and turned it in for scrap and sold it in a garage sale and he took other people with him on his hunts and gave them a little money. None of the sober homes allowed you to stay there without working. They had the used car salesmen/mechanic that always had a car or truck for sale. I can only describe it as a weird meeting. They only had a few of the "I've been saved" type shares, but you could tell they were just practicing for the next court appearance which was often.

Call a group conscience to discuss the ramifications of the group's policy on the sobriety (divinity?) of Bill Wilson. Tell them that according to the group's policy, AA theology is wrong when it teaches that Bill was continuously sober ever since he saw God.

These are interesting times in AA. Clancy is in his 80s. Shit is gonna fly as various gurus go to war with each other to try to take over. It should be interesting.

Well, at least we're not a giant bitch session that is claiming to help people with a supposed disease all while pretending to be incredibly serene.

Part of the reason that I am here is to figure out what, if anything, I can do to be part of the solution. I've said it before and I'll say it again: I don't have the answers but I have lots of questions. I figure that this forum is a good place to start.

That's not true, discussing this raises awareness. I've written the NA and the AA GSB about this (and other issues). That isn't just sitting back, doing nothing. I happen to think that it’s very important that discussions continue so that the word keeps getting spread. “12 step groups can be seriously bad for a persons health”. Once it gets into the mainstream, like sexual abuse in the church (which was once only whispered about and hushed up), then maybe we won’t feel the need to discuss these issues.

What's the use of any forum of blog?

Respectively, if you think it's a waste of time or that this is just another topic beat to death then just let it go. Don't read or comment.

My opinion is that whether an AA or opposing AA (maybe those fresh out looking for support) don't want to drop in and say hi because the interaction here can seem very intimidating. Actually it gets downright nasty at times. Who would want to join in on that?

When this forum opened up it wasn't an oasis for trolls and I still took my time posting.

Now that everyone agrees that there is no true guideline

Funny, I see absolutely no evidence of this.

and, if there were, no one would follow it,

You're assuming that if we believed in steppism, we wouldn't follow it anyway. We are incapable of being honest with ourselves. Since we refute your beloved death cult, you think we don't measure up. Isn't that so old man?

I mean, no one here really wants to put down their sword and cobble together a - look out - solution to this problem, right?

The only solution for wilsonism, is exposing it for the chicanery that it is. No cobbling required.

I'm wondering where all this ire will take the Orange Papers Forum. It's great to be able to get these gripes down to where other people can commiserate. But then what? Is that all there is to the forum?

For as long as your beloved death worship cult exists, there will be a purpose for this forum. When wilsonism is eventually stamped out, well I guess we can talk about gardening or fishing. I will welcome that day when it arrives.

I don't really read much about SMART or any of the other approaches to achieving sobriety.

That is quite evident.

There's a faction here that endorses the idea that NO approach is necessary besides putting down the drink and walking away from it.

Seemed to work every time I tried it. So I decided to follow that path as a rule, my personal choice. The death worship cult of aa offers you no choice. They smile and tell you to follow their path exactly, or die.

So if that's what you/we have here, a gigantic bitch session, and finally the anger runs its course, what then? What is the point of this forum?

I see that your memory is fading old man. I have already answered this question.

I don't see a whole lot of new people coming on to shoulder the mantle of rage.

Nice try old Scrotch. For every 5 aa death cult worshipers, there are some among the 95 that are willing to shoulder, as you describe it, the mantle of rage. Being placed in mortal danger, harmed, or just plain duped by a nazi death cult, really pisses people off.

Will this thing just die of natural causes, such as boredom or spontaneous wellness of the posters?

In what alternate reality old man?

I'm not trying to make waves here; it just seems like it goes round and round without a destination or a goal.

Similar to practicing the steps, ain't it old timer?

A very formulaic bitch session, really. "Bitch, bitch, bitch, but hey! This program is so great! I owe it everything! Bitch, bitch, bitch, damn, I love serenity".

Hahahaha!! Lotto tickets in Denny's.....so perfect.

It's funny because it's believable. If I heard someone at a meeting say that I would not think twice. Totally normal talk in the rooms.

That's a POTA meeting.

Bill W was thinking of something complete different when describing "Problems Other Than Alcohol", e.g. drugs back then.

gigi's description is a prime example of a modern POTA meeting, a b!tch session about life's minor problems.

Oh, that's rich.....

Thats what a gargle of elderly old timers told me, I'd just gotten out of detox & this was about my 3rd outside meeting, & this was after I'd shared that I was feeling suicidal. When I suggested that I thought the doc might be more qualified then they, they persisted " o no this program is all you need, we're alcoholics & we know" bastards wouldn't know their arse from their elbow.