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Member: "Where's Ray? He just got 18 months a few weeks ago and no one's seen him lately. Anyone hear from him?"
Other member: "He got off probation on November 7th."
Tue, 11/29/2011 - 21:27
Ex-member Ray: C' ya.
Alcoholics Anonymous: MyNotGodHasItCovered®http://www.expaa.org/http://bereanresearch.com/http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/NOT AA:
Rational Recovery, SOS, HAMShttp://alcoholabusesolutions.com/
Tue, 11/29/2011 - 21:38
It won't be for awhile, but when I finally go my last meeting, I am going to moonwalk out the door. I won't throw it in anyone's face or even announce that it is my last meeting. But I'm going to moonwalk.
"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid."
Tue, 11/29/2011 - 22:20
Practice. It looks ridiculous unrehearsed.
Mon, 12/12/2011 - 17:22
Here are some moves for you to practice by.
Tue, 11/29/2011 - 21:43
You think any of these idiot, true-believers have noticed a fucking pattern, that when the COERCION to attend bullshit, 12-Step meeting stops, SO DOES THE COERCED PERSON'S ATTENDANCE? This is why 12 Step groups will NOT segregate themselves into "voluntary" vs. "coerced" attended groups! Because ENTIRE GROUPS would disappear as the coerced attendees do!
Tue, 11/29/2011 - 21:50
I think that is spot on. While it is not the same for every group, coercees almost always constitute about 75% of the people in the room. And almost all coercees put a dollar in the basket. So AA really does have a lot to gain financially by keeping a steady flow of court ordered prospects.
Tue, 11/29/2011 - 22:22
Nah, I think there are plenty of drunks around to voluntarily populate the meetings. I think the coercees should be in jail, not AA or NA. Not everyone puts money in the basket.
Tue, 11/29/2011 - 22:31
No, not everyone does. But most do. Anyway, maybe I'll start keeping a record of slip signers and non slip signers. I'm positive there will be more slip signers, but the question is by how much. Maybe I'll also pay attention to how many slip signers v. non slip signers put money in the basket.
Tue, 11/29/2011 - 22:18
Can a AA group refuse court ordered participants? Say a group in Kansas City just says NO!
Tue, 11/29/2011 - 22:26
The only requirement of AA membership is a desire to stop drinking. I suppose a group could agree not to sign slips, but then who would go? Plus, since most people are usually there to get the slip signed, I doubt such a proposal would gain the majority in a group conscience.
Tue, 11/29/2011 - 23:03
Yes Of course. Each group can decide that they dont want people to come who are forced. Tradition 3. Court Order really breaks that. Not that I care about the 12 traditions anymore. WE just didnt sign them or make any stupid announcement. Half of the traditions are lies today anyway. But is is up to each group in the AA LAW book. They say they have no rules. They are full of shit. They have tons of do this dont do that but when it comes to sexual predators.....oh my we cant exclude anyone they reply. Thank you orange for this forum!
Tue, 11/29/2011 - 22:50
"Show of hands folks. Those here on a court/"proof-of-attendance" card"? Thank you. Those here because YOU want to be? Thank You. Yep-court carders are the overwhelming group conscience today! Just doing some undercover statistics gathering for the "OP Forum". Don't worry, I'll keep y'all "anonymous". Thanks for participating!"
Tue, 11/29/2011 - 22:55
Group conscience--------sounds like a damn science fiction movie.
There has been discussion on this forum of serious crimes occurring in or around the "rooms".
One solution is that groups just say no. So not considering any other factors like money-is it not a simple yes or no answer? What am I missing?
Tue, 11/29/2011 - 23:10
What you are missing is that AA groups make those types of decisions by a majority vote. If most of the people in the group have slips that need signing, it's safe to assume they would out vote the motion. Plus most AA groups would die out if it weren't for coercees. And if there were not a captive audience, who would the old-timers have to pontificate to?
Wed, 11/30/2011 - 00:29
WHY do those who are coerced to attend ANY of these meetings, not understand that it is that whole "anonymity" thing that serves as PERFECT COVER for SIGNING THEIR OWN DAMNED CARDS? Since no records are kept as to WHO a "secretary" is at any given meeting (which can and does literally change from meeting to meeting to meeting!), why do they allow themselves to be held hostage? I think I need to show up to a few meetings, and make this "announcement" when the "Announcements" part of the meeting comes up! ;)
Wed, 11/30/2011 - 20:31
Get a little triangle emblem rubber stamp and make it look official. Not saying I've done it, but you know...
Wed, 11/30/2011 - 05:22
It could have been that his 90 meetings in 90 days probationary period in Alcoholics Anonymous was over, so his sponsor released him from community service. The various prospects for Alcoholics Anonymous often change their homegroup and switch to another coven being held in a nicer church basement after a rigorous and searching moral inventory. When searching for the proper fellowship on your spiritualist, not religious path, there are various questions you should ask yourself. Beliefnet has a very good list:
Look for the similarities, not the differences.
"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.
Wed, 11/30/2011 - 07:27
Naw, this dude was there by the courts for a disorderly conduct. I don't think he had a sponsor. At least he never mentioned it.
Wed, 11/30/2011 - 07:54
In California people get sentenced to Alcoholics Anonymous for Disorderly Conduct under California Penal Code § 647. Many states have similar codes. Wouldn't you like to be in a room full of these people?:
"States like California that have common law have disorderly conduct mentioned in different codes. California Penal Code § 415 which is similar to the Model Penal Code reiteration above actually concerns disturbing the peace. However, in California disorderly conduct (California Penal Code § 647) lists what acts constitute disorderly conduct.
Section 647: Every person who commits any of the following acts is guilty of disorderly conduct, a misdemeanor
(a) Who solicits anyone to engage in or who engages in lewd or dissolute conduct in any public place or in any place open to the public or exposed to public view.
(b) Who solicits or who agrees to engage in or who engages in any act of prostitution. A person agrees to engage in an act of prostitution when, with specific intent to so engage, they manifest an acceptance of an offer or solicitation to so engage, regardless of whether the offer or solicitation was made by a person who also possessed the specific intent to engage in prostitution. No agreement to engage in an act of prostitution shall constitute a violation of this subdivision unless some act, in addition to the agreement, is done within this state in furtherance of the commission of an act of prostitution by the person agreeing to engage in that act. As used in this subdivision, "prostitution" includes any lewd act between persons for money or other consideration.
(c) Who accosts other persons in any public place or in any place open to the public for the purpose of begging or soliciting alms.
(d) Who loiters in or about any toilet open to the public for the purpose of engaging in or soliciting any lewd or lascivious or any unlawful act.
(e) Who lodges in any building, structure, vehicle, or place,whether public or private, without the permission of the owner or person entitled to the possession or in control of it.
(f) Who is found in any public place under the influence of intoxicating liquor, any drug, controlled substance, toluene, or any combination of any intoxicating liquor, drug, controlled substance, or toluene, in a condition that they are unable to exercise care for their own safety or the safety of others, or by reason of their being under the influence of intoxicating liquor, any drug, controlled substance, toluene, or any combination of any intoxicating liquor, drug, or toluene, interferes with or obstructs or prevents the free use of any street, sidewalk, or other public way.
(h) Who loiters, prowls, or wanders upon the private property of another, at any time, without visible or lawful business with the owner or occupant. As used in this subdivision, "loiter" means to delay or linger without a lawful purpose for being on the property and for the purpose of committing a crime as opportunity may be discovered.
(i) Who, while loitering, prowling, or wandering upon the private property of another, at any time, peeks in the door or window of any inhabited building or structure, without visible or lawful business with the owner or occupant.
(j) (1) Any person who looks through a hole or opening, into, or otherwise views, by means of any instrumentality, including, but not limited to, a periscope, telescope, binoculars, camera, motion picture camera, or camcorder, the interior of a bedroom, bathroom, changing room, fitting room, dressing room, or tanning booth, or the interior of any other area in which the occupant has a reasonable expectation of privacy, with the intent to invade the privacy of a person or persons inside. This subdivision shall not apply to those areas of a private business used to count currency or other negotiable instruments."
Wed, 11/30/2011 - 20:33
a tanning booth?
Wed, 11/30/2011 - 20:47
You can bet someone's done it.
Wed, 11/30/2011 - 20:50
In January 2011 attorney David Taylor Kaye of San Marcos was arrested for secretly taping people in a tanning booth, including a 15 year old girl.
This person could be sent into the rooms of AA in Area 08: San Diego/Imperial California and the Alcoholics Anonymous group that would most likely go to prisons and jails to recruit him is:
Wed, 11/30/2011 - 06:04
I am ashamed to say I founded a NA meeting. I discussed with my co-founder, as we became known in the local legal system & also with his influential position in regard to such things, we would probably be getting some "court ordered" in the roomz. He told me he'd make sure they participated in the meet & he wouldn't be signing untill one & a half hours after the meet started, I told him I'd sign 'em in the car park. If they didn't want to be there I wasn't gonna try & hold em, but that if they sat the meetings I'd write 'em up a reference for their parole officer, basically did that for a couple of blokes, they did allright out of it, but they didn't get much program, ya couldn't even get them to read the pamphlet literature.
Pleased to say that meet now closed.
Wed, 11/30/2011 - 07:44
We had a meeting where the group conscience voted not to sign court slips because there was a stack to sign after every meeting. So all the court-ordered people went to the meeting across the street and the non court-ordered people stayed. This was in 1998 and this arrangement is still going on. There are signs up that state "We are sorry, but this group does not sign court slips".
Wed, 11/30/2011 - 09:54
Interesting. What percentage of people dropped off and went to the other meeting?
Wed, 11/30/2011 - 12:21
Actually, once in a while one or two court ordered people can be seen at the meeting and they don't get their paper signed. Maybe out of curiosity, or to prove to themselves that they are sincere about staying sober even after the signing deadline.
I would say the meeting was around 2 to 1 with the majority court ordered. But after the divide, many stepper purists began showing back up again and filled the empty seats. I would say about 15-20 people are attending both meetings now on average. (And I have not been to an AA meeting or event in almost 18 months now).
I know of one other place in town that has now become mostly court ordered attendees also. So a court order ban actually causes a shift in the entire recovering community, people scrambling to where they fit in.
Wed, 11/30/2011 - 12:48
I wonder how the non-slip signing motion was passed? Here, someone first calls for a motion and presents the bylaw. After laying it out, the floor is open for debate. Then, someone calls for a motion to have a group conscience. If the motion is seconded, a group conscience takes place and all members in attendance are allowed to vote. The bylaw must pass exactly as it was originally presented. No amendments can be made between the time the proposal is presented and the voting. If the motion is denied, another proposal must be made and the process repeats. But what I'm wondering is how such a proposal made it through a group conscience if most members are slip signers. Are some voters disenfranchised based on how much sobriety time they have or something?
Wed, 11/30/2011 - 13:35
The motion was passed during the business meeting that is held the last Wednesday of the month after the regular meeting. I assume most court ordered people either don't care enough to stick around, or have no idea that they can just show up and vote.
You can do a lot of manipulating if the general population is not familiar with AA tradition.
Wed, 11/30/2011 - 15:20
AA is indeed a tender trap for the Alcoholics still suffering. The birthplace of Alcoholics Anonymous and the very first Intergroup which was started in 1935, is Akron Ohio, where Dr. Bobs house is located on 855 Ardmore Ave, Akron, OH.
"AA Is A Tender Trap" is for purchase for $1 (Model: PAM-84) at the online website in Akron dedicated to the Corrections, Archives, etc...... committees to help carry the words of Dr. Bob and Bill W. and get them to join your Intergroup:
Please note that the Arid Club on 787 Brown St. has shut it's doors due to “poor economic performance” in October of 2011 and it appears that the nearly 2 million dollars it was bringing in on its Bingo Operation was not enough to keep it afloat. If the Alcoholics attending this club have paid in advance for any of the future Bingo games, money will be refunded when it is hopefully gladly donated by the richer benefactors:
"Akron Arid Club September 30, 2011 Members and Guests of the Akron Aird Club, Inc. Due to the poor economic performance of The Arid Club - we are suspending all business operations. This suspension of club business and services is in an effort to reorganize and relocated to a more manageable facility. In addition to daily club operations - all bingo operations are suspended immediately. With regards to the "Mega-Game" - this is being postponed to a later date; we will make every effort to coordinate with another "hall" to facilitate this game. If you have paid for your "seat" we will be making arrangements to refund those entry monies. Please keep in mind that the Akron Arid Club is no different than any other "business" and that the poor economic conditions of the community have brought us to this point. We are saddened to be at this point; however, in an effort to restructure and survive as a community organization, these decisions were necessary"
Wed, 11/30/2011 - 15:29
That makes sense. Just do this shit at a business meeting and also have a regular meeting.
Fri, 12/02/2011 - 12:52
Now THAT is one way 12 Step groups ought to continue their self-segregation! Separate the "voluntary" (true-believers!) from the "HOSTAGES" (the coerced). I'd bet a pot of AA's badly-made coffee that the "coercion-attended" meeting has more bodies at it!
Wed, 11/30/2011 - 08:32
This is just creepy.... http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-cult_a9.html
In extreme cases, like when A.A. members run organ transplant centers, the threat is death. Dr. Clifton Kirton reports that when he needed a liver transplant, and resisted A.A. indoctrination, and said that he felt that A.A. was a coercive religious cult with medically incorrect dogma, he was told:
"If you think that's what Alcoholics Anonymous is all about, you're really missing the point. Religion has nothing to do with it. Your higher power can be anything. You are not being coerced. Your participation in A.A. is entirely voluntary. I must caution you, however, that your failure to internalize recovery concepts will place your transplant candidacy status in great jeopardy."
(In other words, join A.A. or die. "Voluntarily", of course. Dr. Kirton continued:)
These statements were made by Judy Stowe, Certified Chemical Dependency Counselor and coordinator of the Organ Transplant Chemical Dependency Unit at The Cleveland Clinic, an internationally respected tertiary care facility. The fact that the 12 steppers have achieved high status at such a prestigious medical center emphasizes the scope of the cult's influence at the highest levels. It is of further crucial importance that, according to Ms. Stowe, chemical dependency "rehabilitation" is mandated by the state of Ohio, although she refused to provide anything to this effect in writing.
The Semantics of the Twelve Step Neurosis: Surrender, Disease, Denial and other dysfunctional 12-step pathways to personal dis-empowerment and cult dependency by Dr. Clifton W. Kirton