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A special thanks... and goodbye
Fri, 08/17/2012 - 09:55
I think Clara’s question “why would someone stay in AA so long and then blame it for their problems” is a good one.
So, why did you stay so long, and why do you blame AA?
Fri, 08/17/2012 - 09:57
Sad experience, Disc. I wish it had been different, but am glad you are on your path to healthy living.
I never really gave harm reduction a real thought because I had done most of those things while drinking before realizing that I just couldn't drink at all and needed to find a way to stay stopped. I've said this before... but I just really enjoyed the fellowship and where I got sober in MB. It isn't the same here in EP, and I doubt if I had gone to AA first here, I probably wouldn't have felt it was for me.
Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.
First-Things-First (not verified)
Thu, 09/06/2012 - 03:11
Fri, 08/17/2012 - 12:21
Well it happens in plenty of others and they are being documented here. If you would like to highlight your group that bad things don't happen in at anytime, feel free to ask and I will make sure everyone knows that your group doesn't recruit from jails and prisons, has no "Corrections Committees" and that the State Courts System, Probation or Parole Departments doesn't mandate violent criminals or sex offenders to the rooms.
"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.
Fri, 08/17/2012 - 13:35
So you aren't an active AA member doing it "One Day at a Time?" The slogan "One Day at a Time" is one of 5 slogans that are actually authorized by Alcoholics Anonymous World Services, Inc. (AAWS) for publication in AA literature and a plaque with this slogan hangs proudly at the Stepping Stones compound in Katonah, New York. In AA you aren't meant to ever leave because it is a struggle to stay sober using this method and you must look for new members or you will relapse.
Since you left and are not actively practicing the rituals of Bill Wilson in a groups setting searching for new members, something is wrong because the facts do not add up. Not going to meetings and not continually practicing the principals put forth by Bill Wilson will result in EGO driven Denial and Spiritual Maladies. Do you really mean to say that you don't go to meetings and participate in prospect hunting, or do you mean that you don't do it often?
Fri, 08/17/2012 - 13:48
So "Fake It Till You Make It" and "Jails, Institutions or Death", and "It Works If You Work It" and all the nouveau slogans are not sanctioned by AA? Why those scoundrels, these newbie AA members, making up shit like that! The nerve!
“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian
Fri, 08/17/2012 - 15:01
I first read "Fake it until you make it" in a women's magazine decades before I came into the program. I have always been amazed as tot he weight people put on slogans that I knew beforehand and had no clue where they originated. I don't think most of them even came from AA as Bill was something of a compiler, not an author. "Live and let live" was one of my cousin's favorite hippie phrases.
Fri, 08/17/2012 - 20:13
"Jails, institutions, and death" is straight from the Big Book, Becket.
"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid."
Sat, 08/18/2012 - 01:02
Not as a slogan it's not. It's not like every guy is walking around meetings claiming, "I am the man who mastered fear!"
Sat, 08/18/2012 - 13:14
Becket, I owe you an amends. As disclosure pointed out, the phrase "jails, institutions, and death" does not appear in the Big Book. My most sincere apologies.
Sat, 08/18/2012 - 00:10
If you go to AA and preach the gospel of Bill Wilson, your are a Stepper. Not only that you are a dishonest Stepper with an EGO that won't quit and you brag about your deception.
First-Things-First Deleted All Its Posts - http://orange-papers.org/forum/node/1893
First-Things-First bragging about deleting his posts - Orange-Papers 2012, a telling synopsis for the newbs. http://orange-papers.org/forum/node/2115
You are one morally and spiritually sick dude, unfortunately you are also very indicative of the narcissistic members of Alcoholics Anonymous. Thanks for the prime example of why to run away from the cult of Alcoholics Anonymous.
Thu, 09/06/2012 - 03:12
Sat, 08/18/2012 - 00:20
Your actions are inexcusable and stink of deception. Why would anyone want the deception you have.
Fri, 08/17/2012 - 14:43
But what about the groups that don't want to participate with that? I was reamed for following group conscience, only to see on Judicial Abuses on RFR, the very arguments I gave getting support. Not all support mandating and do what they can so that those parties will attend different meetings.
Fri, 08/17/2012 - 22:37
Fri, 08/17/2012 - 14:27
Good job Disclosure about your sobriety and finding what helps you. I can't really answer your question because I wasn't in for that long, relatively anyway.
Your question is a good one, but when it is asked (repeatedly by some others) it seems more of mock, as if after that amount of time it shouldn't/couldn't be possible. Instead of comparing it only to their very own experience, however good or bad, perhaps imagine what experiences the one you are questioning had. And listen to it. I can't see why anyone would want to answer questions by a person that often sets people up for more scrutiny, and then even after being corrected repeatedly when they regularly quote the other wrong, continue to make the same wrong claims.
Truth about AA: http://orange-papers.org/menu1.html
Expose AA: http://www.expaa.org/
Fri, 08/17/2012 - 15:03
I answer back because I feel to not do so might make a person less experienced with the guy's game believe what he is posting about me. You know, rather like all the posts today that are rehashes of things months old.
I would imagine that people kept going to AA for some of the same reasons I come here. I continue to learn on a daily basis. As long as it is to my benefit, why change?
Fri, 08/17/2012 - 19:51
I wasn't referring to you, Clara, about responding to questions.
Fri, 08/17/2012 - 20:02
I know. I was just sharing.
Fri, 08/17/2012 - 15:26
disclosure, thanks for sharing dude. Wow, your story parallels mine almost exactly if we were to compare time lines. I first was introduced to AA in 1977 but I didn't stick with it. I then came back in 1985 and I finally got clean and sober. Been abstinent since.
I too saw suicides but I am a little confused about your opinion. You have yet to really elaborate on why you feel AA contributed to these deaths. Now, I could be wrong and just wasn't around for your explanation. If you have one I would be interested in reading it or if you defer to another source for your reasoning, I would be happy to read it.
Fri, 08/17/2012 - 15:27
I keep going because I need to keep hearing the message that if I don't pick up the first drink, I can't get drunk. I can easily forget that simple message when I'm tempted to drink. If I remember that, then no way do I want to drink.
Fri, 08/17/2012 - 16:26
"I keep going because I need to keep hearing the message that if I don't pick up the first drink, I can't get drunk."
What if I go to HAMS harm reduction instead of AA and hear the message; if I want I can drink in moderation and not get drunk?
Fri, 08/17/2012 - 16:31
Well, depending upon your experiences, you have a decision to make.
Fri, 08/17/2012 - 19:58
Well, I never drank that way. If I am drinking, it is to get drunk. If I don't pick up the first one, I won't get drunk. I don't see it as fearmongering. It's just a fact for me.
Fri, 08/17/2012 - 15:33
I heard that message or years and years, it's fear mongering. There is no bad wolf out there that's going to grab you and suck you into a back hole. That is cult language and thank God I got out and deprogrammed. I never once felt empowered going to AA. I got control of my life and I live it to how I want to.
Fri, 08/17/2012 - 15:46
Vicky, AA or no AA. To stop drinking is a very difficult endeavor. This post doesn't have to be a about AA. I felt he was just sharing his feelings.
Fri, 08/17/2012 - 15:49
Stating my point of view, after all I am on an anti AA website.
Fri, 08/17/2012 - 16:29
I know that, I wasn't challenging what you said (or that wasn't my intent). I am worn out on the fighting jag. I liked what you had to say.
Fri, 08/17/2012 - 16:39
I don't see this as an anti AA site, I see it as a warnings, side effects, and precautions disclosure for the mutual support movement Alcoholics Anonymous.
Fri, 08/17/2012 - 20:00
Thank you, Disc. I actually view that as much more positive than this "we must bash AA/Antis" stance many take.
Fri, 08/17/2012 - 19:59
Yes, but not all wisdom is necessarily pro or con, but just fact. If I don't pick up, I won't get drunk.
Fri, 08/17/2012 - 23:19
Seriously. This a steaming pile of muckrake waiting to be exposed. Someone should have been all over this like stink on sh!t.http://www.orange-papers.org/forum/comment/53791#comment-53791
Sun, 08/19/2012 - 16:15
Language of the heart?