Orange paper letter

I tell newcomers about all their options.
Some stay, some leave, all get informed.
A loving God of my understanding would want it this way.
I used to tell people that AA was the only thing that works and if you don't like it you can go drink.
However, if you do drink you will probably end up in jail, a hospital, or dead.

Becoming a member of the Newcomer Rescue League is a dubious task to say the least. Although I certainly admire his honesty and willingness to express his true feelings regardless of peer opposition and disapproval, I do not know how emotionally and mentally healthy it is to be hanging around people whom you are philosophically in conflict with, and what the real motive to do such a thing really is (much like the trolls on this site).
I sure hope he makes new friends and finds new interests, things that he enjoys doing also. In other words, I hope the Newcomer Rescue League isn't just another delusional cause or crusade, masking the fact that after so many years in the cult, he in reality is simply incapable of letting go and moving on (again, much like the idea of 'carrying the message' is for steppers).
Again, who would join the KKK just for the sake of 'reforming them'. Really?

I spoke for years about the alternatives in some of my AA meetings. They don't like it and some will say something....but I had been around look enough and they knew I was right.

Besides, for most of that time AA was only good for the potlucks.

I had been around long enough

1. "Orange, I have been a loyal follower of your site since the beginning. Thanks for everything you do. I have been trying to bring your message into AA for many years. Sober for 33 years in AA while feeling as you do. My job isn't much fun but I haven't given up yet. I am 75 years old and one stubborn old man."

2. "First I would like to thank all of you folks that commented on my post. I agree with all of you. At this time I have decided that I will continue to go to AA meetings and bust peoples balls. I have made a life of it and at my age I think it is impossible to stop. It is really a lot of fun. Sometimes newcomers tell me they like what I say. I always try to ask a question that no one seems to be able to answer. (Like, What is the actual recovery rate in AA?) I copied that from Orange. As a matter of fact, I think I have become an Orange clone.:-) I wish I had his brain and writing ability. I never realized that I had learned so much until I started having discussions with some of the true believers. I can go on for an hour and a half on one lip. :-) I only wish that would change their minds but it usually doesn't do much good. I admit that I am a atheist/agnostic/or what ever you call a non-believer. Now that really pisses them off. I do think that I have convinced a few people to drop out, but that is very hard to prove given the anonymity of the program. I also like to read non-religious writers. I have found that Robert G. Ingersoll is my favorite. I did like many others do and started with Mary Wollstonecraft and Thomas Paine. The happiest time of my life started after I stopped drinking and shook all religion. I also have been threatened a couple of times. Who's going to harm a 75 year old man who walks with a cane? "33 years sober and counting.""

3. "Oh that it was that simple Carnal! If we were dealing with rational people everything you said would be true. Unfortunately we are not dealing with rational people most of the time in AA. If they have been in AA for even a few months, they already have most of the answers. That of course is because AA is truly a cult. It doesn't take very long to get them indoctrinated. That's why the 90 meetings in 90 days is so important to AA. It doesn't matter how many facts you present, because facts mean nothing to these people. It is like trying to talk to a rock. There are too few of us talking to them to overcome the litany that is constantly being shouted at them by the crowd of crazies. It is very rare that you will find a person with an open mind. For examples of this type of thinking all you have to do is read some of the letters that Orange gets from these nuts. I don't know how Orange stays calm when he replies to these folks. Many times I talk with people and present a lot of facts to them. The funny part is they agree with most of the things I tell them,but they still want no part of what I have to offer. It is enough to drive one nuts. As I have said before, once in a great while one of the newer people will come up to me after a meeting and say they like hearing what I have to say. That is what keeps me coming back! There are a few people who don't want me to quit. I just try to tell them " THE OTHER SIDE OF THE STORY!" All of this further convinces me that AA is just another religion. I thank you for your interest and hope that we can talk again. I try to keep an open mind and learn from others. I wish I had all the right answers but I'm afraid not. Thank goodness for spell checkers. With out them I would look more like an idiot than I do. Keep smiling,"

4. "I have known for years that I am addicted to the meetings. AA has been my life for almost 34 years. For the last 10 or 12 years I have continued to go to 1 or 2 meetings a week. I think the only reason I go is to try to get even with Bill Wilson for starting this frigging cult in the first place. As I said in an earlier post, I am trying to bring down AA from the inside. I am sure you will agree that what I have been doing is a sign of insanity in it self. I have been fighting with a dead man, and all of the Big Bills and the small bills. All this has done is keep me angry and frustrated. This is just going to kill me if I don't stop it. I have had 2 heart attacks in the past 20 years and I suffer from arthritis in both hips and back. For all my efforts all I have accomplished is getting AA true believers to hate me. I know what I should do, but so far I haven't been able to break my addiction to these stupid meetings. I found it easier to quit drinking. than this. I do believe that I have come to the point in my life where I just can't keep this up anymore. I intend to use the same will power that I used in quiting drinking to stop this nonsense. That bastard Bill Wilson has been controlling me from the grave. I intend to use these forums as my support group. Orange has been a great help to me over the years. These forums make things even better. Nice to hear from you."

5. "I was not talking about Orange Papers. I was only talking about the forums. I was not in any way putting Orange down. I hope that I am completely wrong. I hope the forums are a big success. I just hate to see some of the stupidity that goes on when people bicker about who is right and who is wrong. I hate to see people attacking other people and putting them down. Can't we just let people state their opinions and let it drop right there. Maybe I am asking too much. My problem is and always will be my BIG MOUTH! I guess I am jumping to conclusions based on some needless crap I hear some folks discussing. I do not want to get into a pissing contest with anyone and I will not discuss this matter any further. I was just voicing my opinion. The End. Long live Orange!"

Really enjoyed your post. I know what you mean about the bickering. I got into it and to be honest felt ashamed of myself. I know I can always do better and be a better person. You seem like a really fun spirit Alkie. Xx

I have no clue why someone would spend 34 years and counting in a fellowship he didn't like or believe it, yet blames it for the problem. Mindboggling.