Why did you stay?

avogadno's picture
Submitted by avogadno on Thu, 08/09/2012 - 02:17

I've been asked many times by an AA, "Why didn't you just leave?". This usually here on the OP and occurring after discussing some aspect of my personal involvement. I've long since learned that most questions by an AA aren't sincerely asked in order to understand, but actually just an attempt to place blame of a negative experience solely onto me.

Apparently being lied to and told that AA is the only way, and undergoing scare tactics such as, "you will die from your addiction if you leave", isn't good enough reasons to have stayed. I wonder, does someone like me that was regularly told the above, really deserve the negative reinforcement just because trolls think I was so stupid as to believe it? That’s quite odd actually, because so many of the same would claim that so-in-so that relapsed and died because they were stupid and didn’t listen.

The big lies by AA are common and occur so frequently that all honest members/former agree that the program has vast problems. Being that a substance addiction breaks people down, making them desperate, and the program features are so encompassing as to keep guru members committed, it's understandable to me that people generally have a strong possibility of feeling trapped there.

Because we all likely had other circumstances that led to our participation, what are some of the other reasons people "stayed" in AA despite so many negative features?

Although I wasn't sentenced to AA by the court I got pressure outside of AA to attend as well. Some by two hatters and some by normie people that like I was told, believed AA was the only way to get and stay sober.

Comments

YuppieMonkey's picture

YuppieMonkey

Thu, 08/09/2012 - 05:53

The simple answer: Because I drank the Kool-Aid. For some reason much of what was told in AA seemed to make sense. Then think of all the people you meet and how you 'relate' to them and the war stories, it really is set up that even if you don't buy everything, you buy enough to keep you hanging out and coming back. We all know after that the brainwashing takes over and the more you hear things, the more true and normal it becomes.
After drinking the Kool Aid, I bought into the myth of 'alcoholism' being a spiritual disease and I was working the steps to stay in fit spiritual condition. I was enjoying being looked upon as someone who "had something" that made it possible to stay sober.
Once this way of life became a habit it is very difficult to leave. All your social ties come from the program, there were no activities that I ever did without AA people. Today I realize how much the religion dictated everything we did. At campouts, conventions, potlucks, there was always the mandatory "meeting" to carry the message. I remember times when we were out at the park having a great time, then we all had to gather to listen to this boring, dumb speaker. Ruined everything, but I kept my mouth shut and listened to 'the message' like a good stepper.
By the time I left, after 20 years of AA, I felt I was starting completely over. The program taught me nothing of living in the real world, being friends with people that I couldn't 'relate' to that didn't have my disease, and finding interests other than running from meeting to meeting to meeting to meeting.
I make no apologies, I have no regrets. At least I spent 10 years in the program getting my degrees and doing an internship and taking my licensing exams. So it wasn't a complete waste of time. If it wasn't for that, I might feel different.
Don't worry about what the Trolls think.

"You'll pay to know what you really think". - J.R. Bob Dobbs

Ironic's picture

Ironic

Thu, 08/09/2012 - 08:30

Thank you YuppieMonkey. It's great posts like that that keep me coming back to OPF and keep me hopeful that one day I will be completely sober as well, without the twelve steps.

avogadno's picture

avogadno

Fri, 08/10/2012 - 20:26

Yes, YM your posts are from the heart and very encouraging. I appreciate the messages :-)

Pro Empowerment!
Truth about AA: http://orange-papers.org/menu1.html
Expose AA: http://www.expaa.org/

alkieanon's picture

alkieanon

Thu, 08/09/2012 - 06:05




disclosure

Thu, 08/09/2012 - 07:58

After the brainwashing wore off.

Clara's picture

Clara

Thu, 08/09/2012 - 08:15

I suppose it is because I was never told that I would have to go meetings for the rest of my life and that there were bars and locks on AA's windows and doors. There were certainly people that took it to a level that I didn't, and those things could be true for them. I know people that think what is waiting for them are jails, hospitals and death, but that isn't too hard to believe if your history includes two out of the three. Mine didn't. I was never told that life outside of the rooms amounted to numerous boogymen.

I've been over to RFR and read where people spoke to kind people that told them that AA wasn't for everyone, only to have that story change once they come over here to argue with an AA. I read about people that loved AA for decades until some undetermined thing happened to cause they to absolutely hate it. I don't understand that. Even if you want to argue mandates, 13 stepping, bad coffee and the like, THOSE things certainly have existed in AA for decades. So what happened?

All I can conclude is that my bottom might have been different or that I didn't experience the brainwashing others did. I took what worked for me and I have to think that it has served me well. I wish that people didn't have their anger... but it is rather intriguing as to why they are happy to stay in it.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

JR Harris's picture

JR Harris

Thu, 08/09/2012 - 09:06

Is it because your eyes are being opened up to the deceit of the AA faith or are you just looking for alliances with other trolls like Danny B so you can learn how to stalk people even better on line.

Hang around the stalkers of AA long enough, and you're going to get caught in your deception.... again....

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

Vicky345uk

Thu, 08/09/2012 - 09:13

Dont expect an answer from her, she is incapable of being honest. The more you write something the more off the wall that cult your in is. Everything you say we have heard over and over again. Bring something new and refreshing to the table... Clara can't wait to hear it...

Vicky345uk

Thu, 08/09/2012 - 09:10

A frigging snake, supporting the likes of Danny bennison. Your are the lowest Clara.

YuppieMonkey's picture

YuppieMonkey

Thu, 08/09/2012 - 09:47

Don't listen to a word she says. She always claims how nobody ever told her any of these things where she was from. Bullshit! She has read the same big book, the same 12x12. "There is no middle of the road solution, it is VITAL to confess your sins, failure to practice the program is signing your own DEATH WARRANT".
Everything out of her mouth is nothing more than the power of suggestion. I just don't understand why junior don't like his vegetables, they are soo healthy. I used to always love to eat my vegetables, they taste soo good too. Why does junior HATE vegetables, junior used to eat all his vegetables.

"You'll pay to know what you really think". - J.R. Bob Dobbs

Clara's picture

Clara

Thu, 08/09/2012 - 18:34

How silly of you. Of course I read the aterial, but remember that everying IS a suggestion. If I look at my life reasonably, I think someone could make the case that if I went back to drinking, not only could I die but others as well since I was a habitual drunk driver.

I benefitted from step work. I won't deny that, but I wasn't told that I would have to go to meetings for the rest of my life or that there were bars on the doors and windows or that AA is the only path to sobriety. Why the excess emotion, YM?

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

avogadno's picture

avogadno

Fri, 08/10/2012 - 18:40

Oh no Clara, that was not a suggestion. Also, there are multiple Big Big quotes that are fear inducing and complete lies to keep people in the program to practice the cultist steps of AA.

That you you try to defend such a blatant, manipulative statement shows me even more how completely brainwashed you are. In this case I honestly feel sorry for you. It must be an awful feeling to be so scared about what you would face emotionally if you started to face the truth. It's a very difficult thing to admit.

Pro Empowerment!
Truth about AA: http://orange-papers.org/menu1.html
Expose AA: http://www.expaa.org/

Clara's picture

Clara

Fri, 08/10/2012 - 20:53

Avo, you don't understand that I didn't believe it literally to be true. I am not the one that was brainwashed.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

avogadno's picture

avogadno

Fri, 08/10/2012 - 20:25

Seriously Clara, do you believe the quote that YM posted was meant to be a silly exaggeration to which all readers should have been aware of? I found no indication that it was meant to give the impression of nothing less than how imperative the steps were. Throughout the book Bill W. consistently wrote of the importance of step work and how dangerous it would be not to abide by them. It was these types of messages and repeated slogans in the rooms that kept people in fear of leaving AA.

Pro Empowerment!
Truth about AA: http://orange-papers.org/menu1.html
Expose AA: http://www.expaa.org/

Clara's picture

Clara

Fri, 08/10/2012 - 20:57

Avo, I don't believe 100% of anything. I love parts of the Bible, but I don't believe that one man parted the Red Sea or that people lived to be hundreds of years old. Do I discard the whole of the Bible as a result? No.

I believe that stepwork is important. I believe it can be very helpful and that it did much for me. You and I had different experiences in AA.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

avogadno's picture

avogadno

Fri, 08/10/2012 - 21:18

Are you really comparing the BB to the Bible?

I know we had different experiences in AA and I can honestly respect that. What I don't get is that you continually discredit the bad experiences. On one hand you say that you believe and understand, yet at other times you suggest that it couldn't have happened or that it was all fault of the member. This despite written evidence in the literature that would back up some of the claims. Remember, it isn't only what is in the different texts. Members in the rooms spout the same crap as gospel. The amount can vary from meeting to meeting, but unless you call everyone a liar than it is true that AA scares people, actually threatens people into continued membership.

Pro Empowerment!
Truth about AA: http://orange-papers.org/menu1.html
Expose AA: http://www.expaa.org/

Clara's picture

Clara

Fri, 08/10/2012 - 21:56

Avo, I didn't take it literally. While I can concede that drinking again could cause me to die (or to harm others) it is because I was a habitual drunk driver. I supposed it could be believable to people with rehabs in their pasts, overdoses where they almost died, people that did go to jail... because their pasts very well can be representative of their future. Did I need Bill W. to tell me that a person's history will repeat itself without change and that it could be worse? No.

I am not equating the Bible with the BB, just using parallel thoughts.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

becket's picture

becket

Thu, 08/09/2012 - 20:16

monkey, you have absolutely no concept of the metaphor, have you?

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

causeandeffect's picture

causeandeffect

Thu, 08/09/2012 - 22:39

What exactly makes you think it's a metaphor? Can you prove that it was meant as a metaphor? I read nothing to suggest it was, nor did any of the steppers I've ever encountered indicated in any way whatsoever that it was a metaphor. I mean, I do understand that "sign your own death warrant" isn't to be taken literally that someone is literally putting a pen to paper, and signing a warrant. Who doesn't understand that? But you seem to be implying that it somehow means something other than a person would die if they didn't work the program. I believe that is EXACTLY what wilson meant. Wilson even said that silkworthless told him to down play the religious angle, and play up the whole death angle. So that is exactly what I believe wilson was saying. It was deceptive, but that was most certainly what he was saying, in that passage, and in other ways, too.

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avogadno's picture

avogadno

Fri, 08/10/2012 - 18:31

Reading that was the best laugh I've had all day. Thanks!

Pro Empowerment!
Truth about AA: http://orange-papers.org/menu1.html
Expose AA: http://www.expaa.org/

becket's picture

becket

Fri, 08/10/2012 - 18:55

Proof for interpretation? Did you ask your ex-husband to prove he loved you, to prove he had a dick in his pants, to prove he changed the oil in the car?

You are burned around the edges, causeandeffect. Somebody got to you and made you suspicious of everything. Did you worship Bill Wilson? If so, sorry about that. If not, then your misinterpretation is your own fault. Don't pull that Gunthar20 shit about "blame the victim" here. You're no victim either. You think you got duped and you're embarrassed and ashamed and looking to blame AA for your own gullibility.

Metaphor. Don't look it up. You know everything.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

causeandeffect's picture

causeandeffect

Fri, 08/10/2012 - 19:00

What the hell are you even talking about, becket? LOL!

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LisaMarie's picture

LisaMarie

Fri, 08/10/2012 - 19:03

It is called your truth, you refuse to be accountable for.
Ok, now it is time to call me Danny....danny doodle..:)

becket's picture

becket

Fri, 08/10/2012 - 19:08

You demand visible and verifiable evidence in triplicate for the fact that someone is breathing air or getting up out of a chair. YOU DEMAND IT. This is your entire platform here; if an idea, a concept, an act, a premise, a statistic cannot be supported by tangible evidence from several sources of which your yourself approve, then it must be nothing but pablum or bullshit. Even if it is supported, if you disagree with it, then all sources are illegitimate and all bets are off. That's what I'm talkin about, causeandeffect. You are probably the most rigid hate machine here. So lol your fat ass off, doll; life is getting away from you "one day at a time".

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

causeandeffect's picture

causeandeffect

Fri, 08/10/2012 - 19:18

Funny, I was thinking you are the most rigid hate machine here. Your post is ridiculous. I demand proof that someone is breathing or getting out of a chair? Now if someone were injured, and there was reason to believe they had quit breathing, I'd certainly check them for that. And you'd fault me for that? What kind of person does that? Proof that someone is getting out of a chair? That's patently absurd, and is just a bitter, hateful accusation. Yes, of course I need proof that some things work, and that is the only intelligent stance to take. AA is one thing that has no proof that it works. Where has anybody shown anything to the contrary? It worked for me is merely anecdotal, and useless in the face of the evidence. Do you despise everybody who has a more scientific view, or is it just me?

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becket's picture

becket

Fri, 08/10/2012 - 19:53

Yes'm, please, ma'am, don' beat me wit yo cane, ma'am.

Patently absurd? You bet. I respond to absurdity in kind. You ARE rigid, you ARE argumentative, and you have DEFINITELY brought your bitch to the wrong place when you bring it to me. Anecdotal evidence is still evidence. You expect everyone to believe that it didn't work for you. What is that, empirical evidence or anecdotal bullshit? I love science. I just don't consider you any shade of a scientist.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

DeConstructor's picture

DeConstructor

Fri, 08/10/2012 - 20:09

please feel free to get the fuck out if you are not happy here.

Do not expect us to be cordial to you fucktards.

LisaMarie's picture

LisaMarie

Fri, 08/10/2012 - 20:17

@DeConstructor
I'll close the door right after you, jerk.

becket's picture

becket

Fri, 08/10/2012 - 20:32

Why would I expect cordiality, of all things?!

No, I think I'll stay. I'm working on my victimhood - 18 years on OPF and couldn't figure out why so many people misrepresented important thangs.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

causeandeffect's picture

causeandeffect

Fri, 08/10/2012 - 20:25

Becket, I 'm a bitch to you because you are a flaming bitch to everybody here, except those who walk on eggshells around you. I see absolutely no point in doing so, as I despise the way you abuse people here every day and in every way. " You ARE rigid, you ARE argumentative, and you have DEFINITELY brought your bitch to the wrong place when you bring it to me. " Well, right back atcha, baby. I'm not intimidated by you in the least, your threats mean absolutely nothing to me. There is only ONE person you get along with here and (no offense PW) he has stated that he doesn't believe in good and evil, that they are artificial constructs. (Sorry if I've misinterpreted, PW.) So he basically doesn't share the same judgements the rest of the world lives by. I suspect he must see things that way to deal with his profession. You are the most insufferable, judgmental person I've ever had the displeasure of encountering, and that says a lot. clara runs a close second. No wait, she's just as bad but in different ways. Your vicious rants are the biggest projections I've ever seen. You have no self awareness.

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Pennywise's picture

Pennywise

Fri, 08/10/2012 - 20:33

he has stated that he doesn't believe in good and evil, that they are artificial constructs. (Sorry if I've misinterpreted, PW.) So he basically doesn't share the same judgements the rest of the world lives by.

It is not that I don't believe in good or evil. Rather, I do not believe good and evil exist as objective "truths." Good and evil are subjective value judgements (or beliefs, if you will), and as I have stated, I do not think beliefs themselves can be real. My position follows from my metaphysics, not my cynicism.

"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid."

becket's picture

becket

Fri, 08/10/2012 - 20:34

High praise - many thanks, causeandeffect!

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

LisaMarie's picture

LisaMarie

Fri, 08/10/2012 - 20:34

And the Oscar tonight for the "Biggest Bitch Rant" goes to C&E....Yeah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Here is her award winning bitch rant...

"Becket, I 'm a bitch to you because you are a flaming bitch to everybody here, except those who walk on eggshells around you. I see absolutely no point in doing so, as I despise the way you abuse people here every day and in every way. " You ARE rigid, you ARE argumentative, and you have DEFINITELY brought your bitch to the wrong place when you bring it to me. " Well, right back atcha, baby. I'm not intimidated by you in the least, your threats mean absolutely nothing to me. There is only ONE person you get along with here and (no offense PW) he has stated that he doesn't believe in good and evil, that they are artificial constructs. (Sorry if I've misinterpreted, PW.) So he basically doesn't share the same judgements the rest of the world lives by. I suspect he must see things that way to deal with his profession. You are the most insufferable, judgmental person I've ever had the displeasure of encountering, and that says a lot. clara runs a close second. No wait, she's just as bad but in different ways. Your vicious rants are the biggest projections I've ever seen. You have no self awareness."

becket's picture

becket

Fri, 08/10/2012 - 20:46

Where's the party? Will there be booze? Suboxone? I wanna get my bitch on!

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

LisaMarie's picture

LisaMarie

Fri, 08/10/2012 - 20:57

Oh yes, and btnben/Conan will be the host along with his co-host the always alluring Michell Persephone.
The whine will flow and the ambient will be on the ready for the sleepless one. C&E will make her casual entrance around midnight, we can only hope she has her bitch on.
Special guest will be Danny Danny Danny (strange name) and his merry band of lassies.
Come one and come all, we promise you won't be happy when you leave.

becket's picture

becket

Fri, 08/10/2012 - 20:47

Noooooo . . . you have no awareness of me. Please turn to page 431 in your text, "Psychology 101 for the Impaired".

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

live_free_or_die's picture

live_free_or_die

Fri, 08/10/2012 - 21:08

"Teacher"

Well the dawn was coming,
heard him ringing on my bell.
He said, ``My name's the teacher,
that is what I call myself.
And I have a lesson
that I must impart to you.
It's an old expression
but I must insist it's true.

Jump up, look around,
find yourself some fun,
no sense in sitting there hating everyone.
No man's an island and his castle isn't home,
the nest is full of nothing when the bird has flown.''

So I took a journey,
threw my world into the sea.
With me went the teacher
who found fun instead of me.

Hey man, what's the plan, what was that you said?
Sun-tanned, drink in hand, lying there in bed.
I try to socialize but I can't seem to find
what I was looking for, got something on my mind.

Then the teacher told me
it had been a lot of fun.
Thanked me for his ticket
and all that I had done.

Hey man, what's the plan, what was that you said?
Sun-tanned, drink in hand, lying there in bed.
I try to socialize but I can't seem to find
what I was looking for, got something on my mind.

by Jethro Tull

Alcoholics Anonymous: MyNotGodHasItCovered®
http://www.expaa.org/
http://bereanresearch.com/
http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/
NOT AA:
Rational Recovery, SOS, HAMS
http://alcoholabusesolutions.com/

becket's picture

becket

Fri, 08/10/2012 - 20:05

"Funny, I was thinking you are the most rigid hate machine here."

You were wrong.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

causeandeffect's picture

causeandeffect

Fri, 08/10/2012 - 20:26

Oh no. I'm right.

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becket's picture

becket

Fri, 08/10/2012 - 20:34

Is isn't is isn't is isn't when does your bladder ever empty?

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

avogadno's picture

avogadno

Fri, 08/10/2012 - 19:08

Why is it that you are so low as to bring up her personal past, re: her ex husband?

Yes, I know that Clara gets her share of personal questions and jabs about her life but she invites people to discuss it by continually bringing it up. Really though, I think that picking at a member's sensitive past (and so crudely) should be off limits. Is there a way that you can tone it down and keep it at least about the individual? I know you are capable of doing so. Please?

Pro Empowerment!
Truth about AA: http://orange-papers.org/menu1.html
Expose AA: http://www.expaa.org/

LisaMarie's picture

LisaMarie

Fri, 08/10/2012 - 19:18

Same reason you are so low Avo, that you stalk across the internet trying to find garbage on Clara, once you find it, you smear her good name on here.
Shut up with your hollow pleas of ethics, girl you have no morals at all.

Next comment:
"Yes, I know that Clara gets her share of personal questions and jabs about her life but she invites people to discuss it by continually bringing it up. Really though, I think that picking at a member's sensitive past (and so crudely) should be off limits. Is there a way that you can tone it down and keep it at least about the individual? I know you are capable of doing so. Please?"

You went on her facebook site and posted her pics as your avatars, don't minimize the hate you brought her and still do to this day. What she posts on this site is not for you to decide to humiliate or not. Just like the poster you are standing up for right now, with all these PLEASES, well where were you when Clara was being dragged around. YOU WERE NO WHERE, OH YES YOU WERE, YOU WERE HELPING DRAG HER THROUGH THE MUD.
You got a lot of nerve.

causeandeffect's picture

causeandeffect

Fri, 08/10/2012 - 19:44

danny, you were the one who spilled all clara's info. You would do anything just to get in with us. That info that you gave out was held onto until she had asked for it againandagainandagain. She asked for it, even demanded it. You both need to look at your part in it.

Speaking of dragging...

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LisaMarie's picture

LisaMarie

Fri, 08/10/2012 - 20:15

Lmao.....C&E, you really think Clara believes this too, don't you. That this Danny guy miraculously appeared for you, gave you information about Clara, because he wanted to be your friend. Have I got this right. I mean what haven't you people thrown at this guy.
I bet you are just so happy that you can talk all this shit and remain anonymous. No consequences, just throw it out there and see if it sticks.
(shaking my head)

Clara's picture

Clara

Fri, 08/10/2012 - 22:02

I didn't appreciate PIE suggesting my email was anything more than a guestion as to if she was in AA.

C&E, you rush over here, rubbing your grubby little hands in delight, that you get to spar with Clara! OMG, how fun is that! Blogs, forums, polls, specifically addressed posts are all dedicated to me, yet supposedly I am the one seeking attention. And that is just what happens at OPF. How much time do others spend chasing me around the net to discover things I already posted over the first week I got here? How much time is dedicated to Clara and what we can do next to try to get her to react in a fashion other than gratitude? I know! Despite that she spoke about the ex-wife in generic terms, let's research her husband so we can then go to facebook to get the ex's photo!? When it was realized that there is no animosity toward the woman, it was decided to start using her name on the forum despite probably never naming an Antis husband. In fact, Massive said something about that on RFR about going to the sites and radio shows resulted some AAs naming her husband and children. But you all think it is fine to do to others.

I have no problem with her,dear. The behavior gave me the most important thing I have on this earth - my husband. I didn't know about her travails with the successor until your stalking of a nonmember made me aware of it. Even then, the reaction was not a jeer or even an OMG, just affirmation that previously made decisions were the right choices. We we prayed for her. You guys have been doing for me what I would never think to do or have any interest in doing, but which still only profits me. Instead of looking a bit deeper into things to see how that could happen, you just want to rush back to the forum to dispute any of my explanations. Yes, I expect to have improvement on the record in MD and I have no reason to think it cannot be done. Why would you wish for something otherwise? Far from being involved with some scheme in MB, I wasn't even living there yet. I was in Annapolis, and I have no affiliation of any kind with that gentleman or Holiday Enterprises. No one seems to want to call the attorney herself despite my permission to her to talk with anyone calling to question it.

No one "made" you do anything, C&E. You couldn't wait to do it.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

becket's picture

becket

Fri, 08/10/2012 - 19:12

You are sitting squarely within the lap of admin luxury on your other, cleaner, more-balanced-in-its-hate-of-AA site, RFR. Have you failed to notice that this forum does not excise nasty comments? We give, we get. If it's too rough for you over here, avogadno, take the limo back to RFR and climb up on your throne over there. I'm sure someone will be along with lemonade and a eunuch with an ostrich feather fan soon enough.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

avogadno's picture

avogadno

Fri, 08/10/2012 - 20:00

OK Becket, I really didn't expect a different response but I thought I'd give it a shot.

Honestly, I'm not interested in sparring with people. I've tried hard in the past to refrain from getting nasty in my comments. I know I haven't been that succesful towards e1 but the effort was there and I'll continue to do so. I've been fair with you lately and I hope it continues honestly. Really, is that crap you wrote above necessary? It really just shows how nasty you can be so firing back at you will only make me look and feel bad, not you. Same as how you look towards anyone that reads your post.

Pro Empowerment!
Truth about AA: http://orange-papers.org/menu1.html
Expose AA: http://www.expaa.org/

LisaMarie's picture

LisaMarie

Fri, 08/10/2012 - 20:21

Are you in denial or what. Avogadno, you are not the princess here, the one who is nice. You are a hateful nasty women, who has hurt more people on this site then you are worth.
Please save your Miss Goody Two Shoes for your site, we know exactly who you really are here.

causeandeffect's picture

causeandeffect

Fri, 08/10/2012 - 20:35

danny, danny, danny, you're too stupid to even know what a sweet wonderful person Avo is. She's bent over backwards to give everyone a fair and balanced debate, even as she is being treated abusively by you and becket, and all of your ilk. BTW, who is the meth head in your avatar?

Troll free AA critical forum
http://www.expaa.org/

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it." ~ Neil deGrasse Tyson

LisaMarie's picture

LisaMarie

Fri, 08/10/2012 - 20:48

Here it is Danny Danny Danny Danny......gosh I waited a long time.
C&E, bla bla bla I don't care nor will I read such garbage. Both of you act as if you are old spindly prudes, which if you are not careful, you will be.

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