Steppers, time to stand your ground!

Pennywise's picture
Submitted by Pennywise on Mon, 08/06/2012 - 14:30

Enough petty bickering about side issues and personalities here. It is time for the steppers to come forth and defend the 12 Step Program on its MERITS. Tell us, how exactly are the Steps supposed to work? If you have a case (as opposed to trading insults), now is the time to present it. No riddles or cryptic replies. Perhaps you can start with this: is it your contention that if you do what the Big Book says, a God of your understanding will perform the supernatural miracle of removing your obsession to drink?

Comments

Vicky345uk

Tue, 08/07/2012 - 09:03

Anti AA it's informative. It's helped me deprogramme and open my eyes. You Clara have made me see even more how poorly steppers are. Massive is amazing....

Clara's picture

Clara

Tue, 08/07/2012 - 10:07

I agree that she believes her motives are good and she is entitled to that. I have often wondered just how effective her methods are, though. I don't think it helps to preach alternatives when there isn't an equal move to create those alternatives.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

JR Harris's picture

JR Harris

Tue, 08/07/2012 - 09:20

Clara, you have a well known past of stalking and harassing people online starting with the Huffington post and the Phillyburbs as cribbisque and now craigs list as desertqueen. If you keep playing around online you are going to get yourself in trouble. Swallow your pride and inflated ego and just stop doing it and it will go away. But then again maybe you are just an addicted cyber stalker and need help.

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

causeandeffect's picture

causeandeffect

Tue, 08/07/2012 - 09:28

Yes, JR, and she started her stalking of members on this forum pretty early on. But she expects to be immune from anyone doing it to her. BTW, that ex-wife looks very fit and very healthy. I seriously doubt she drinks or does drugs as clara claims, because it would be exceptionally hard to achieve that level of health and do so.

Troll free AA critical forum
http://www.expaa.org/

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it." ~ Neil deGrasse Tyson

Clara's picture

Clara

Tue, 08/07/2012 - 10:07

Hardly, JR. And you are the one that chooses to bring my opinions on other subjects to this forum. I went to Craiglist to prove to Gunthar that I was not lying about his call to arms. What was there to it to be ashamed of?

As for drug/alcohol use and physical fitness, I have surely seen many people in our fellowship that were physically fit, but addicts just the same. It doesn't equal sobriety or emotional fitness.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

JR Harris's picture

JR Harris

Tue, 08/07/2012 - 10:15

No Clara, you have history of online Stalking and harassment and we probably only know a few of the instances.

"Being Stalked By Troll Clara On Orange Papers" Tue, 03/20/2012 - 08:06 http://orange-papers.org/forum/node/1010

Crib Bisque on the Huffington post stalking the Morelli's 08/09/11 09:47 PM ET
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/08/09/the-psycho-ex-wife-free-speech-...

Crib Bisque stalking the Morelli's on the Philly Burbs Aug 25, 2011
http://www.phillyburbs.com/divorced-dad-s-blog-becomes-free-speech-test/...

Clara Takes Her Act To craigslist 08/02/2012
http://orange-papers.org/forum/node/1010

Clara as DesertQueen on Craigs list 08/02/2012
https://forums.craigslist.org/?ID=217243084

How many don't we know about and under how many different user names Clara?

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

Clara's picture

Clara

Tue, 08/07/2012 - 10:22

I have already addressed that, JR. "Clara" was taken on many forums. I went to Craigslist to verify what Gunthar was denying and even the post had been removed. I have no affiliation with RI. As for Anti, adding a meeting to an already planned trip was no big deal. Why would anyone expect her to be there? I don't even know who she is. Besides, it showed a number of things. First, the meeting is a nice meeting with people minding their own business, just as depicted in the photos she posts on her site. I also learned that the man that started that meeting had good intentions. Unfortunately, he passed on his good idea to someone else that turned the area into a big NA den. As for Allison, as you do, JR, I support my friends. I will continue to do so.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

JR Harris's picture

JR Harris

Tue, 08/07/2012 - 10:33

So why haven't you made amends to the people you have stalked as Clara of the Orange Papers Forum (OPF), cribbisque of the Huffington Post (HP) and DesertQueen of the Rhode Island Craigs list?

You're not following a program of moral honesty and repentance Clara...... you're also giving AA members in general a bad name.

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

Clara's picture

Clara

Tue, 08/07/2012 - 11:00

No amends needed. No one stalked anyone at all. In the hypothetical, should the conversation sound like "Gosh, Gunthar, I apologize for proving that you lied on OPF when you said you didn't post the craigslist site and asking for a bomb over there. lo and behold, out of the all the craigslists in the world, there you WERE..." Or "Hey, Anti, sorry that the meeting sounded too good to pass up, so we stopped there as part of a previously planned vacation. Even more sorry to discover no one is breaking any rules or traditions."

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

causeandeffect's picture

causeandeffect

Tue, 08/07/2012 - 19:03

clara, you've proven nothing. It's no secret that Gunthar posts on Craig's list--never has been. You could have easily found that information from danny/lisa marie.

Troll free AA critical forum
http://www.expaa.org/

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it." ~ Neil deGrasse Tyson

Vicky345uk

Tue, 08/07/2012 - 16:52

Tut tut.

causeandeffect's picture

causeandeffect

Tue, 08/07/2012 - 09:22

LOL! We've been calling danny bennison by his real name in all his reincarnations including dannybII, perplexity, Trace LIn, calinda, trisha k, randle o, and now lisa marie, and whoever else I've forgotten. And danny has repeatedly screamed bloody murder about it. So where is Orange's position on addressing people as they choose to be addressed? You are lying yet again. LOL!

Troll free AA critical forum
http://www.expaa.org/

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it." ~ Neil deGrasse Tyson

Clara's picture

Clara

Tue, 08/07/2012 - 10:02

Orange isn't interested in Danny, who is in a league of his own. But he did send me this in an email when Massive complained that I used her name in some posts despite her links that indicated her name. "using people\'s real names rather than nicknames (breaking anonymity)." I concluded that Orange does share a belief that what we choose to use on the board is what we should go by.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

live_free_or_die's picture

live_free_or_die

Tue, 08/07/2012 - 15:41

Hilarious.

Alcoholics Anonymous: MyNotGodHasItCovered®
http://www.expaa.org/
http://bereanresearch.com/
http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/
NOT AA:
Rational Recovery, SOS, HAMS
http://alcoholabusesolutions.com/

Clara's picture

Clara

Tue, 08/07/2012 - 16:13

Where's the rest of the post?

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

LisaMarie's picture

LisaMarie

Tue, 08/07/2012 - 10:13

According to your introduction story on RFR, you just got sober and can't seem to keep yourself that way for any length of time. Hence your foul mouthed rants on here, probably when you have had a few to many.
Clara, you are dealing with an active addict who I believe wants help but doesn't know how to go about asking politely right now. Please be patient, Vicky will come around eventually.
Vicky, remember your negative actions today may haunt for many tomorrows.

Clara's picture

Clara

Tue, 08/07/2012 - 10:14

Well, that was why I went to have a look. The person seems so sexually abusive over here but a charmer over there.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

btnben's picture

btnben

Tue, 08/07/2012 - 10:27

Proof positive that the blocks are working. Vicky didn't say anything of the sort.

And the fact that you can't see that proves beyond any doubt that you are Danny Bennison. Not the sharpest knife in the drawer, are we Danny?

PS. Just keep a copy of that so Orange can see it and ban you again Danny...lol

"According to your introduction story on RFR, you just got sober and can't seem to keep yourself that way for any length of time. Hence your foul mouthed rants on here, probably when you have had a few to many.
Clara, you are dealing with an active addict who I believe wants help but doesn't know how to go about asking politely right now. Please be patient, Vicky will come around eventually.
Vicky, remember your negative actions today may haunt for many tomorrows."

God damn it, get me a whiskey

Bill W, Deathbed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc

Clara's picture

Clara

Tue, 08/07/2012 - 16:28

No, Vicky said she was an abused wife of a man she met in AA. That she was a mess when she came in, smelly and nasty, and that she was unable to talk in her meetings about her marriage as it was breaking up as they weren't marriage counsellors.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

Vicky345uk

Tue, 08/07/2012 - 16:38

Did I really say that? Wow. Clara its great that your taking an interest in my life because your life is of the wall. You deny stalking people then put on what they've said on another site. Clara remember when I said you need a shovel because of the hole your digging yourself? Well Hun you need a god damn digger, while your at it throw your self and Danny in there!!!

Clara's picture

Clara

Tue, 08/07/2012 - 17:13

Actually, you said a lot more, Vicky.

One of the wonderful things about going through the steps and confronting your life is that it then doesn't matter if others do it, too. Good lord, the worst thing that happened is that you discovered I've told the truth about my travails, and the best was that we can send some positive energy toward someone that had been in our lives that isn't faring too well. We had heard some things... but we didn't realize it was that bad.

Save that hole for the ex. He sounds like a mess.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

Vicky345uk

Wed, 08/08/2012 - 06:44

That you have to go there but you will never be part of that community. By doing that you are depriving some poor alcoholic who needs you wisdom and support. The steps for me never worked for me. To honest they never work for anyone, people go through life pretending and feel miserable inside. That's why you trolls are here! You are so miserable with your sad lot that you have to come here pretending that the steps work and it's amazing.

You have helped me so much in in just a short few days, you have shown my how poorly and totally looney you. You Danny and my ex go in the hole. Smooooch!!!!!!

becket's picture

becket

Tue, 08/07/2012 - 22:22

I hope you keep this up, victor. I would love to see you get axed.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

Vicky345uk

Wed, 08/08/2012 - 10:01

Your funny bucket... Smooch

Vicky345uk

Tue, 08/07/2012 - 10:32

I havn't drank in 5 years Danny, poor you cant read. Be patient Danny boy and take your medication.... You got the wrong person Danny because I never wrote no such thing. You two need help because your on an Anti AA website.... Your both sooooooo funny....

LisaMarie's picture

LisaMarie

Tue, 08/07/2012 - 16:17

btnben/Conan and Vicky, if you would like me to post both of Vicky's comments she wrote in the introduction thread I will. I am completely sure she didn't say that she was still drinking in those posts. But I don't believe Vicky, nobody who is sober and rational talks as filthy as she has done on this site.
It is no coincidence btnben/Conan, that you are sticking up for her, you write disgusting comments yourself.
Since I am not Danny, btnben/Conan, you haven't blocked me at all. Plus, You can not find my IP to block me anyway. No worry though, I read your site for educational value and to make sure you are telling the truth. I do not want to join your corrupt group. IMO Ben, you are sick along with Vicky. You provide no safe haven nor personal growth value.

Vicky345uk

Tue, 08/07/2012 - 16:50

Your so frigging funny. Why is what I post on another site of so much importance to you??? Been a stepper is so boring but Christ talk about scraping the barrell,

LisaMarie's picture

LisaMarie

Tue, 08/07/2012 - 11:01

My name is LisaMarie, Vicky. I don't believe you. Sorry!!

JR Harris's picture

JR Harris

Tue, 08/07/2012 - 11:06

You should start a "Danny B" website where all of your other online usernames can talk with each other. If you manage the website you can be assured that they won't be banned.

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

Persephone In Exile's picture

Persephone In Exile

Tue, 08/07/2012 - 12:16

Vicky, if it makes you feel any better, Danny treats everyone this way. The lies are pretty standard as well. As is the bullying 12 step talk.

http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/

Vicky345uk

Tue, 08/07/2012 - 16:01

I could not give a hoot what you think of me. Recovering from recovery is awesome. Free from the trolls like you. Every human being has a dark side in them danny so I leave all my filthy shitty language on you... Back at ya baby.....

becket's picture

becket

Tue, 08/07/2012 - 22:24

You mean to claim you are "in recovery"? I guess crack "don't count", right victor?

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

Vicky345uk

Wed, 08/08/2012 - 06:24

You live the best life you can..... Lots of love victor xxxx

Vicky345uk

Tue, 08/07/2012 - 16:06

Like your picture Danny full of hot air lol lol lol lol lol

causeandeffect's picture

causeandeffect

Tue, 08/07/2012 - 19:06

danny, you are one to talk about having a foul mouth. Fornits comes to mind...

Troll free AA critical forum
http://www.expaa.org/

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it." ~ Neil deGrasse Tyson

NoAAUK's picture

NoAAUK

Tue, 08/07/2012 - 23:10

"According to your introduction story on RFR, you just got sober and can't seem to keep yourself that way for any length of time. Hence your foul mouthed rants on here, probably when you have had a few to many."

You AA people really are obsessed with stopping drinking 24/7 for life. You don't have to be drinking to do a 'foul mouthed rant' becket can match anyone with a 'foul mouthed rant' and she hasn't been drinking for years.

Alcohol is NOT the greatest evil on this planet. Smoking kills more people and is generally considered as harder to give up.....Bill Wilson springs immediately to mind.

Alcohol does not cause wars or famine. You people sit around in those macabre meetings constantly exagerating drunkaloges, trying to out do each other on who was 'badest motherfucker alcholic in the valley' and think about nothing else but stopping drinking, even after 20 or 30 years of NOT drinking.

Most of the 'all knowing' AA guru old-timers have spent far more years 'NOT' drinking than actually drinking (if you can really believe their 20 and 30 years sobriety claims). These people do NOT have a drinking problem.......they have and 'obsessive NOT drinking problem (an AA problem) bought about by endless AA meetings and indoctrination.

Life has soooooo much more to offer than just being in a perpetual state of 'stopping' drinking’......do SOMETHING.....I don't know, go fishing, night school, the world has so much more to offer.......stop going to those obsessive cult meetings...free your mind….get yourself a proper life

......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11

avogadno's picture

avogadno

Wed, 08/08/2012 - 09:50

Wtg, NoAAUK that's great advice. Getting out and doing something besides needless obsessing and fake loving, and so forth and on an on - is fun! There are experiences worth having. I didn't want a continual repetition of feeling badly and talking about feeling badly and discussing on how now to, which doesn't work imo anyway. It wasn't a life worth living. It's so true, there is an over-abundance of good times to be had while just not drinking at the same time.

Pro Empowerment!
Truth about AA: http://orange-papers.org/menu1.html
Expose AA: http://www.expaa.org/

causeandeffect's picture

causeandeffect

Wed, 08/08/2012 - 10:12

True. I've heard foul mouthed f-bomb, etc, rants at meetings from old timers despite the request in the introduction of the meeting to refrain from profanity. And PIE's ex-sponsor said proudly proclaimed repeatedly at meetings that she "sucked dick" for drugs.

And isn't it just like a stepper to try to discredit someone who is saying something they don't like by accusing them of drinking, or being on crack, or being a dry drunk, etc?

Troll free AA critical forum
http://www.expaa.org/

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it." ~ Neil deGrasse Tyson

becket's picture

becket

Mon, 08/06/2012 - 23:16

I consider all of us to be miracles, even lfop. Even in the face of so many atheists. Even when we fight like dogs.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

Vicky345uk

Tue, 08/07/2012 - 16:07

Because I walked away from a cult called Alcoholics Anonymous......

becket's picture

becket

Mon, 08/06/2012 - 22:33

I've read your "confusing correlation with causation" rant before. I simply don't care about it.

Whoever told you all that shit about God and pre-destination and depression was wrong. Get over it.

I did not find God in AA. I allowed for discourse with God so I could come to understand him as loving instead of punitive. He has been in my life all my life. He's not something I picked up from a plate that was lying on the counter beside the coffee machine at a meeting.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

patti

Tue, 08/07/2012 - 15:11

Becket people dislike, hate & are anti aa, get over it. Have heard your "rants" over & over & you are known for your redundancy. Don't want what you have from aa. Get over it, practice what you preach, preach & then preach again. Typical stepper hypocrite!

patti

becket's picture

becket

Tue, 08/07/2012 - 22:06

"Becket people dislike, hate & are anti aa, get over it."

Try again?

Please explain the hypocrisy you allude to. I'm waiting.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

alkieanon's picture

alkieanon

Wed, 08/08/2012 - 06:28

patti says: "... people dislike, hate & are anti aa, get over it."

Now Orange Papers Forum cooking with (Strickland) gas and not gaslighting. LOL!

Let's hear (hear) all about it.

causeandeffect's picture

causeandeffect

Mon, 08/06/2012 - 20:02

Yes, Pennywise, but there is a distinction between the placebo and its effect. The placebo is the inert substance, usually a sugar pill. The "effect" part of the phrase is the healing above and beyond remission, believed to be caused by the cognitive belief that the patient is receiving. So it's totally inaccurate to say AA has a placebo effect. Once could call AA a placebo, but one couldn't say there is a placebo effect. You would only be able to make that claim if say, for instance, the spontaneous remission was 5% and AA showed a 7% sobriety rate. But I believe the placebo effect is usually higher than a 2% increase. I think 2% would be considered statistically insignificant, but I'm not sure. I do know that spontaneous remission was more recently speculated at being much higher, more like 25%, but don't remember where I saw it. So all in all, since AA fails to even scrape together even 6%, it's losing it's own placebo effect.

Troll free AA critical forum
http://www.expaa.org/

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it." ~ Neil deGrasse Tyson

Pennywise's picture

Pennywise

Mon, 08/06/2012 - 20:29

Indeed. But for now, I'm willing to leave statistics out of this. If a belief that the Steps work gives even one person a cognitive benefit, I'm willing, at least in this thread, to grant the existence of a placebo effect. Of course, that is much different from granting that the Steps actually work in the way the AA literature says they do. After all, few gurus would admit that AA is a placebo.

"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid."

live_free_or_die's picture

live_free_or_die

Tue, 08/07/2012 - 04:19

How can the steps work based on a belief pennyW? Your stated position is that beliefs are not real.

Alcoholics Anonymous: MyNotGodHasItCovered®
http://www.expaa.org/
http://bereanresearch.com/
http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/
NOT AA:
Rational Recovery, SOS, HAMS
http://alcoholabusesolutions.com/

Pennywise's picture

Pennywise

Tue, 08/07/2012 - 04:26

I never said something has to be real to have an effect. Illusions can have a significant effect on people. Anyway, I don't think the Steps themselves work, but Becket is on to something when she says that beliefs can inspire strength.

"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid."

Gunthar2000's picture

Gunthar2000

Tue, 08/07/2012 - 04:35

Beliefs can also inspire weakness. Like the belief that one could be powerless over alcohol.

AA is a religious cult dressed up to look like a treatment for alcoholism.

Gunthar2000

http://www.expaa.org/

Pennywise's picture

Pennywise

Tue, 08/07/2012 - 04:45

Absolutely, Gunthar.

"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid."

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