Orange-Papers 2012, a telling synopsis for the newbs.

Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Sun, 08/05/2012 - 08:19

The record holder for comments on a blog here in 2012 is a blog on March 3; it had 558 comments. The topic was about all the trolls on this site, specifically naming two people. People that merely shared different views from what this site preaches. As such, they were targeted and gleefully hated on.

Second biggest in 2012? May 15, it was a very negative anti-A.A. blog. Again, hate mongers gathered in glee. Anybody opposing that view . . . targeted and hated on. Totaled 555 comments.

3rd was a blog I posted, July 7. Basically pointing out the fallacious anti filled arguments people had against A.A. I had just heard about this site a couple of days prior. Again, people gathered with gleeful hate. 446 comments. Since then the largest commented blog (209 comments) is about how I deleted my comments; much name calling, hate spewing, etc. towards me. I quickly realized that there is no logic here, merely A.A. hate.

I came here because I was hoping to receive positive alternative view(s). I understand A.A. is not perfect nor, is it for everybody. I say to each their own, whatever can keep you happy and sober. However, the major view here is not so open. It is merely negative anti-A.A. Anything which supports any anti-A.A. view keeps the cogs on this site greased and going. Anything in contradiction is viewed as cancer with blinded and unquestioned prejudice, regardless of the logic; and then there's the childish name calling: steppers, Wilsonites, the cult, etc.

Most have vowed to ignore me now. Which has made my visits here much more pleasant. I was seriously considering not even visiting; but it does contain an occasional good alternative view and much entertainment from the senseless logic, more than anything.

Just a little informative. Have a nice day : )

Comments

JR Harris's picture

JR Harris

Sun, 08/05/2012 - 08:35

And First-Things-First like the coward AA member "it" is deleted all of "its" posts like a typical Bill Wilson chanter..... be warned of "its" deception. Do you really want what "it" has.....

"IT" is not worth responding to.

See also "First Things First Deleted All Its Posts" http://orange-papers.org/forum/node/1893

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

First-Things-First (not verified)

Thu, 09/06/2012 - 03:44

JR Harris's picture

JR Harris

Sun, 08/05/2012 - 08:47

Making direct attacks and causing havoc First-Things-First? Prove me wrong...... Oh, I forgot you deleted all of your posts, so you can't. Very low moral character and obviously someone that can not be trusted in the cult of Alcoholics Anonymous.

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

First-Things-First (not verified)

Thu, 09/06/2012 - 03:44

Pennywise's picture

Pennywise

Sun, 08/05/2012 - 09:50

To be fair, First, you seem like a good poster in my eyes. The problem, not with you but with AA, is that it is challenging to have a logical conversation with people who subscribe to a belief system (such as AA) that rejects logic. AA philosophy is quite illogical, and the reasoning employed by steppers is truly from the other side of the looking glass. It's sort of like trying to have a logical conversation with Tweedledum and Tweedledee, where even commonly understood words take on weird new meanings. Bill W. himself alludes to this radical departure from logic when he tells us to walk "far over the Bridge of Reason toward the desired shore of faith." BB page 53.

"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid."

JR Harris's picture

JR Harris

Sun, 08/05/2012 - 09:43

Because First-Things-First chose to delete all of his posts you only get one side of the conversation and it is now unintelligible for anyone to understand it. Now "it" is gloating on the narcissistic tactic "it" used and flaunting it. The only reasonable conclusion can be that "it" realized it was loosing the battle so "it" retreated in shame and deleted all of "its" posts, which will most likely happen with this thread. First-Things-First is an untrustworthy poster as can be seen by "its" gloating and past history.

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

Gunthar2000's picture

Gunthar2000

Sun, 08/05/2012 - 09:46

FTF deleted all of his posts because he was losing the argument.

AA is a religious cult dressed up to look like a treatment for alcoholism.

Gunthar2000

http://www.expaa.org/

First-Things-First (not verified)

Thu, 09/06/2012 - 03:45

alkieanon's picture

alkieanon

Sun, 08/05/2012 - 10:38


Deleting the posts after the comments, that is.

First-Things-First (not verified)

Thu, 09/06/2012 - 03:46

becket's picture

becket

Sun, 08/05/2012 - 10:14

What is an "untrustworthy poster", JR Harris?! One who disagrees with you?

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

First-Things-First (not verified)

Thu, 09/06/2012 - 03:46

becket's picture

becket

Sun, 08/05/2012 - 10:19

"The only problem is that you only get one side of the story."

That is the sole aim of this forum. Now you're complaining because you are getting what you want?

Oy.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

NoAAUK's picture

NoAAUK

Mon, 08/06/2012 - 00:13

"The only problem is that you only get one side of the story."

There IS only 'one' side to the story, AA is a lying scaremongering death cult full of Control Freaks, Sexual Predators Paedophiles and other deviants...........that harms and even kills far far more people than it helps. AA is NOT ineffective.....it is NEGATIVE EFFECTIVE

The sooner AA and its clones are consigned to the history books, the sooner the alcohol problem can be addressed and solved

Pity we couldn't delete Steppism from face of the earth altogether

......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11

First-Things-First (not verified)

Thu, 09/06/2012 - 03:46

First-Things-First (not verified)

Thu, 09/06/2012 - 03:46

NoAAUK's picture

NoAAUK

Mon, 08/06/2012 - 00:20

Something as demonically evil as AA is bound to breed hate in its former victims, especially as it continues to prey at will on more victims at every opportunity, with the totally misinformed blessing of the general public and has the sheer audacity to do so in the name of God.

What a truly disgusting creation AA is, absolutley deserving of all the hate that can possibly be directed against it

......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11

First-Things-First (not verified)

Thu, 09/06/2012 - 03:47

LisaMarie's picture

LisaMarie

Sun, 08/05/2012 - 10:06

“Argument and fault-finding are to be avoided like the plague.” (BB pg 98)

In AA we must stand for something but never against anything. We need never argue with anyone about anything…. all we need to do is share what we do, were like and the way our lives ares now. “And we have ceased fighting anything or anyone — even alcohol.” (BB pg 84)

Clouds always disappear when the sun comes out…. The sun doesn’t argue with the clouds it just gets to its business of being sunny. You just go about being ourselves and enjoy the fragrances of our collateral photosynthesis effects from the seeds that are planted. Thus is the spiritual way of life.

Here’s an example of the silliness and lunacy of winning arguments:

“I argue very well. Ask any of my remaining friends. I can win an argument on any topic, against any opponent. People know this and steer clear of me at parties. Often, as a sign of their great respect, they don’t even invite me.”

As Emerson said what they are shouts so loudly no one can hear a word they say.

The only way to really win an argument is to not have it in the first place!

NoAAUK's picture

NoAAUK

Mon, 08/06/2012 - 00:27

"In AA we must stand for something but never against anything. We need never argue with anyone about anything…. all we need to do is share what we do, were like and the way our lives ares now. “And we have ceased fighting anything or anyone — even alcohol.” (BB pg 84)"

What total stepper BS You are the biggest bunch of self-obsessed lying scaremongering predators on the face of the earth

......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11

becket's picture

becket

Sun, 08/05/2012 - 10:10

So you do have a god, Pennywise, and its name is Logic.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

LisaMarie's picture

LisaMarie

Sun, 08/05/2012 - 10:16

@Penny
Green explains it the best.

Discussing Alcoholics Anonymous

Research on AA is always a challenge. Does AA have a high success rate, or do people just show up when they are ready to stop drinking? Does AA have a low success rate, or is that only because the more severe cases are attracted to AA? It is very hard to compare AA to non-AA people because AA is so accessible that most problem drinkers are likely to have attended at least one AA meeting. For these reasons, most responsible researchers will clearly state that research on AA is based on indirect evidence. So when Agent Orange quotes someone that "...there is a paucity of scientific studies supporting the superior effectiveness of AA," what he forgets to mention is that there is also not much research showing AA does not work. AA is simply a tough topic to research.

AA is a loose organization of many small, independent groups. The AA main office provides a suggested program of recovery, but there is no central authority. AA does not keep membership lists or collect dues beyond "passing the basket" at meetings (and no one is turned away for not contributing). AA is based on alcoholics helping each other: according to the program, in order to stay sober, experienced members need to help other alcoholics.

NoAAUK's picture

NoAAUK

Mon, 08/06/2012 - 00:39

"Research on AA is always a challenge"

It would be interesting to find out how many people AA really kills and how many lives are totally destroyed by its lying Oxford Group cult concept of powerlessness. AA's self-fulfilling prophecy

You people ought to be locked up for spreading that totally self destructive cult lie alone, never mind all the other mind screwing and predatory deviant activites you practice up the bemused and vulnerable who are sucked into your satanic death cult

Fact, AA Mansfield England 1980 - 1982 first two years of existence, killed twice as many people as it helped...I was there

......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11

Pennywise's picture

Pennywise

Sun, 08/05/2012 - 10:57

Becket said: "So you do have a god, Pennywise, and its name is Logic."

That's what Wilson tries to say in a complete non sequitur:

"Yes, we had been faithful, abjectly faithful to the God of Reason." BB page 54.

But he's dead wrong. I do not look at a reason or logic as some eternal supernatural higher being with a divine consciousness. Rather, reason and logic are human faculties and nothing more than tools for understanding our universe. They are not beings to be worshipped or prayed to.

"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid."

becket's picture

becket

Sun, 08/05/2012 - 11:15

But they are used to measure others' philosophies and ideas by? Why?

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

Pennywise's picture

Pennywise

Sun, 08/05/2012 - 11:23

To examine whether those philosophies hold water. Because there is probably no divine God to feed us truth during some 11th Step meditation ritual, the best we can do is use our reason to discern the truth from the false. Our reason might fail us at times, but unlike some imaginary God, it's the best resource we've got.

"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid."

Clara's picture

Clara

Sun, 08/05/2012 - 12:39

But it hardly started with the creation of the 11th step and AA.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

becket's picture

becket

Sun, 08/05/2012 - 10:17

FTF rude? Argumentative? Hardly. I recall FTF as a rather gentle, inquiring sort. Of course, perhaps we remember what we want to and disregard the rest, eh JR?

Direct attacks are solicited here. Condemning someone for responding to the red-flag-waving is unsportsmanlike.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

Clara's picture

Clara

Sun, 08/05/2012 - 10:51

What was always ironic to me is that they complain that hating someone dominates the site, yet there is no attempt to just leap over a person's post regardless of how often that invite is offered. Another is what they choose to hone in on and do 24 hours on, for example, a typo.

Have a good day, too, FTF.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

LisaMarie's picture

LisaMarie

Sun, 08/05/2012 - 10:57

Good morning Clara, nice to see you again. I believe Clara, that "we can" rise up above this hate and set an example for good orderly conduct on a web site.

Clara's picture

Clara

Sun, 08/05/2012 - 11:16

It would be good. I had tried to do that with Gunthar when I realized that stunt didn't go as planned and he was very upset over it. I proposed letting it end right there, but it didn't seem that anyone wanted to join me.

I love your avatar. I know that you've had it up for a while, but I have greater appreciation for it since the travel mag in the hotel was about the balloon fiesta in Northern New Mexico. Am looking forward to that one, for sure!

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

LisaMarie's picture

LisaMarie

Sun, 08/05/2012 - 13:43

I love hot air balloons and definetly enjoy balloon festivals. Have a great afternoon, Clara. :)

steve cochrane's picture

steve cochrane

Sun, 08/05/2012 - 19:55

a very rare response to you. Tell me, were you in the squad in high scool? I mean chearleading,majorettes etc? Just curious. I'll stick around this time.

Clara's picture

Clara

Sun, 08/05/2012 - 19:59

Why? Cherubic good looks?

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

becket's picture

becket

Sun, 08/05/2012 - 10:23

""IT" is not worth responding to."

Great. That means less idiocy from you on my screen, JR Harris - and anyone else who is willing to let JR make up your mind for you.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

LisaMarie's picture

LisaMarie

Sun, 08/05/2012 - 08:47

This is a classic example of JR Harris, at his best. I thank you, too.

First-Things-First (not verified)

Thu, 09/06/2012 - 03:47

LisaMarie's picture

LisaMarie

Sun, 08/05/2012 - 09:14

duplicate

LisaMarie's picture

LisaMarie

Sun, 08/05/2012 - 09:13

Yes, it is sad FTF. I have tried several times to reach out to JR Harris and several other members here, but to no avail. JR Harris has no intention of being civil, courteous or trying to hold a rational dialog. He only response is to attack, call us names, accuse of us of being immoral, dishonest, trolls and disruptive. All because we write a different opinion on this site. At first I thought they were kidding with me, but soon after I realized they were not.
This site may get 2 millions hits a month but what is very sad, out of 2 million only 7 people post on this site regularly. The same 7 anti-AA people post on RFR also.
Maybe, nobody wants what you have? IDK.

First-Things-First (not verified)

Thu, 09/06/2012 - 03:47

First-Things-First (not verified)

Thu, 09/06/2012 - 03:47

LisaMarie's picture

LisaMarie

Sun, 08/05/2012 - 11:02

I really don't know much about the site, myself. It is talked about on here and Avogadno has/had the link posted as a signature. So i went and looked. It seems to be like any other AA site either anti or pro. One thought and one conversation, nothing else will be tolerated.

Clara's picture

Clara

Sun, 08/05/2012 - 11:12

That's right. And what do you find when you get there? More links and requests to bomb another board "to set those people straight" about AA. It's astonishing to get an invite from one of the players to leave this site as he rallies up the others to go to various AA sites, propose having a master roster of trusted individuals to invite, even "code" words to use. Does this sound childish to anyone but me? But, to them, it is just what DeCon calls "mischief".

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

LisaMarie's picture

LisaMarie

Sun, 08/05/2012 - 13:45

Clara, it sounds like middle age drop outs with nothing better to do. Lmao....Oh boy, I better be careful I am middle age or better.
You know what I mean...I hope?

flannigan

Sun, 08/05/2012 - 10:49

Maybe you should try this alternative- stop drinking/drugging. Works every time.

Clara's picture

Clara

Sun, 08/05/2012 - 10:52

Sure, Flan, if you can stay stopped... That was the little area where I needed some help.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

First-Things-First (not verified)

Thu, 09/06/2012 - 03:48

LisaMarie's picture

LisaMarie

Sun, 08/05/2012 - 10:58

Absolutely, FTF.

NoAAUK's picture

NoAAUK

Mon, 08/06/2012 - 00:57

"but most of us - NEED IT."

So some people who were going to stop drinking anyway like cult religion. Sitting in church basements, walls plastered in nonsensical slogans, endlessly repeating the same cult BS over and over again, while the other brainwashed bobble heads solemnly nod in agreement, as if they recognise some great truth only revealed to a select chosen few. Ok so some of you wacko's like cult religion…….nobody NEEDS it.......and MOST people do NOT want it.

How many people who attend a stepper cult indoctrination session, actually return for more than a few sessions if they return at all?

"but most of us - NEED IT."

Standard stepper cult recruitment lie....doesn't wash on this forum

......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11

First-Things-First (not verified)

Thu, 09/06/2012 - 03:48

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