Clara Takes Her Act To craigslist

Gunthar2000's picture
Submitted by Gunthar2000 on Thu, 08/02/2012 - 10:55

Naltrexone < DesertQueen > 08/02 10:35:05

It's been very interesting to read these posts as I know Gunthar from another forum, where he is even worse mannered towards AAs than he is here. I am rather surprised to see the addition of the SMART program because he's always promoted Naltrexone as his savior from alcohol. Despite my own success with AA, it doesn't work for a friend of mine, and I recommended he check into Naltrexone and consult with his doctor about it. Since I live in a border town and cross into Mexico for more favorably priced medications, I had posted on the blog that I would be willing to get Naltrexone for my friend, who is also uninsured, if my friend's doctor was on board with it. Naltrexone is not a stand alone therapy and is to be used in conjunction with counseling or a support group, hence, Gunthar's involvment with SMART.

Instead of getting kudos for doing as most AAs do (recognizing that there is more than one path to sobriety) and offering the information to someone that might benefit, Guthar turned about face and ridiculed my interest. I have discoverd principles before personalities to be a good thing long before I ever joined AA, but this man would rather take BACK his positive message than to ever agree with an AA on anything.

I am glad that he promoted this site on *****edited*****, where he led a call to arms so that the members there could come and "set these people straight." It's primarily an anti-AA site. I notice only one did, Rainbow, who now claims that she owes her sobriety to Naltrexone, too. How funny. She's never mentioned it before. But due to this site, I discovered that Gunthar has a very good military record, is an atheist and apparently a homophobic, and that he tweaks his information to suit his audience. Given his attacks on me in another forum and the lengths he goes to to abuse women, this was actually a site that bordered on theraputic for me. Thank you, Gunthar!

https://forums.craigslist.org/?ID=217243084

Comments

patti

Thu, 08/02/2012 - 20:05

PIE
yeah reading Clara's posts. The knucklehead is again contributing to informing people of aa's lunacy & the lunatics that belong & support it. The bonehead is shooting herself & her cult in the foot & is helping warn off others of the dangers of aa. Let her keep hanging herself & the cult & scumbag wilson she worships! What a fruitcake she is. And obviously mentally unstable & oh so whacked. Keep posting Clara & you will keep keeping them not coming back! You & your wonderful aa sober life of posting all day, day after day & Becket too on this & other forums is enough to keep many from wanting what you have! And your lunacy & pathological lying is apparent & obvious to anyone especially to people from prison & even to the drunkest & the most wasted! Keep on keeping them not coming back & not showing up @ all! You are fighting the good fight for us & the good of humanity! I'm so relieved you are not on my side! Gunthar f em, they are lunatics!

patti

becket's picture

becket

Fri, 08/03/2012 - 09:25

But she is on your side, patti. She endorses consideration of all modalities in pursuing a life free of dependence and addiction.

You're so busy catapulting flaming fireballs of judgment that you cannot see clearly. Too much smoke obscures the view, doesn't it? Is that by design?

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

alkieanon's picture

alkieanon

Thu, 08/02/2012 - 20:08

https://forums.craigslist.org/?ID=217208136

JR Harris's picture

JR Harris

Thu, 08/02/2012 - 20:16

I wonder how Bill's battle in Lebanon Township in New Jersey is going?

Lebanon Township in New Jersey upset about proposed Drug Rehab Facility opening - July 2012 http://orange-papers.org/forum/node/1993

Would he appreciate the controversy you have put him under alkieanon?

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

alkieanon's picture

alkieanon

Fri, 08/03/2012 - 05:57

JR Harris whines: "I don't know... what would Bill from Sunrise Detox say? I wonder how Bill's battle in Lebanon Township in New Jersey is going?" Does he also post on craigslist?

https://forums.craigslist.org/?ID=217208760

Vicky345uk

Fri, 08/03/2012 - 15:24

Just wondering why are you on an anti AA website? There of lots of sites that are pro AA. Why are you wasting time on here?

Clara's picture

Clara

Fri, 08/03/2012 - 15:41

Guthar reposted my remarks from a pro AA site. OPF is neither nay or pro anything. Everyone is welcome.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

Gunthar2000's picture

Gunthar2000

Fri, 08/03/2012 - 15:42

craigslist recovery forums are NOT pro AA.

Not as long as I have anything to do with it.

AA is a religious cult dressed up to look like a treatment for alcoholism.

Gunthar2000

http://www.expaa.org/

Clara's picture

Clara

Fri, 08/03/2012 - 15:52

This could be true, but there did seem to a great many fellowship members. I suppose that could change on any given day. I only read the posts from your call to arms date forward. I do know the posts that flooded my inbox were from supporters.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

alkieanon's picture

alkieanon

Fri, 08/03/2012 - 20:22

Why would people be posting on craigslist?

Clara's picture

Clara

Fri, 08/03/2012 - 21:49

I didn't know there was a recovery forum on Craiglist, either, but it was referenced on RFR.com when a party there posted, calling for their readers to go and set them straight on AA. So I went, and Gunthar took my post and brought it here for some reason he's never explained. They treat him only slightly better than he treats me over here, so I wonder why he insists that I should go away.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

Persephone In Exile's picture

Persephone In Exile

Fri, 08/03/2012 - 15:44

Everyone is welcome. Except for:

Marietta Davis
Jesus-Is-Fraud
Calinda
Danny II B
TraceLIn
Perplexity
Trisha K
RandleO
Viagra Spammers

Now, admittedly, almost all of those are Danny.....

http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/

JR Harris's picture

JR Harris

Fri, 08/03/2012 - 15:48

Can't find any divorce battles online? Using multiple usernames and going to other sites? Clara, you made a direct attack at Gunthar and then you pointed them to another site he uses. You are nothing but a trouble maker using false identities and running around the Internet and trying to be busy body in everybody's business. you intentionally went to Craigs List and posted that stuff. You messed around with a couple going through a custody battle in Pennsylvania without even knowing if the AA groups in Bucks County are safe for minors to be around because the mother is a newcomer to AA?

Southeastern Pennsylvania Intergroup Association of Alcoholics Anonymous (Covers Bucks County)
http://www.sepennaa.org/

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

Clara's picture

Clara

Fri, 08/03/2012 - 15:55

I never made any attack on him, my dear. But I certainly did go to that site at his urging on RFR.com. It seems to be a common behavior over there, to round up support and run over to a site. In fact, Massive asked people to boycott this site until JIF was banned. She came here and wanted support on her site against some AA that actually was right on some points.

People often link articles of interest here and then try to control who goes over to have a look. That's wrong.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

JR Harris's picture

JR Harris

Sat, 08/04/2012 - 15:51

Claiming that the AA member was "right on some points" indicates they were wrong on others. What were they?

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

mfc66uk

Sat, 08/04/2012 - 16:40

I can tell Gunthar has not edited any of his posts on my site from the admin log which tells me about any editing or deletions and I cannot find any references to craigs list on the site as well. Members are free to edit on my forum as we don't have trolls trying to disrupt and so it is a function I am happy to allow along with several chat areas but in this case Clara is wrong. There was a post about visiting AA type sites but the few that replied said they could not be bothered and had had enough of that shit etc. The topic or any of the were not by Gunthar however although I understand he does post on Craigs list. I never bother with it.
I banned Clara and several other of the trolls here from my site as they are only around to disrupt and are child like. They are not a great example of a middle aged Americans.
The posts about Clara trolling and poking her nose in all over the web do not surprise me.

Anyway I just checked my AW stats for www.recoveringfromrecovery.com and we have just had 2,637,420 troll free pages viewed which is a great achievement for such a young site. In fact I did not start the stats at the beginning of the site so that figure is for just over 2 months. Just goes to prove you don't need a load of garbage derailing threads to get your stats up and if people are interested they will come and use the site.

Vicky345uk

Fri, 08/03/2012 - 15:35

Please people don't give this women 1 more minute of your time. Clara I don't know you but it obvious your an AA lover and that's fine, just don't come on these sites.

Clara's picture

Clara

Fri, 08/03/2012 - 15:41

Thank you, Vicky. Orange has a different take than you do, and all are welcome.

I believe there are many paths to sobriety and that AA is merely one.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

Pennywise's picture

Pennywise

Fri, 08/03/2012 - 21:27

Not to beat up on you, Clara, but there is only one path to sobriety--don't drink any alcohol for about 12 hours.

"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid."

Clara's picture

Clara

Fri, 08/03/2012 - 21:49

Well now, I am not going to disagree with you, Penny, but I think some need some help with that 12 hours...

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

becket's picture

becket

Sat, 08/04/2012 - 15:48

12 hours, Pennywise? Are you serious? You're saying 12 hours without drinking and one is magically cured of alcohol dependence and is fully sober on every level?

You should start your own sobriety franchise.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

Vicky345uk

Fri, 08/03/2012 - 15:48

There just seems to be a lot of attack back and forth. It's great to see you have that view point of many paths Clara. I wish you well in what ever path you take.

Love and light

Vicky

Clara's picture

Clara

Fri, 08/03/2012 - 15:56

Thank you, Vicky. Love and light to you, too. One of my friends from the commune in Mass says that often, and it always feels good!

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

Gunthar2000's picture

Gunthar2000

Fri, 08/03/2012 - 15:59

Please go away.

AA is a religious cult dressed up to look like a treatment for alcoholism.

Gunthar2000

http://www.expaa.org/

alkieanon's picture

alkieanon

Fri, 08/03/2012 - 20:37

Gunthar2000 says: "You don't belong here ..." Have heard that statement said at a meeting.

Clara's picture

Clara

Fri, 08/03/2012 - 21:51

I notice that he doesn't respond any more favorably when they tell him that at that craigslist forum. His whole behavior has been disappointing.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

Gunthar2000's picture

Gunthar2000

Fri, 11/16/2012 - 22:10

Spouting lies as usual.

AA is a religious cult dressed up to look like a treatment for alcoholism.

Gunthar2000

http://www.expaa.org/

lonestar's picture

lonestar

Fri, 11/16/2012 - 21:44

By "over ther", do you mean EXPAA? Then maybe you can answer this for me: If A.A. is a religious organization, characterized by belief in God and acceptance of dogma, why is it that there is a solicitation on EXPAA to sign a petition asking the courts to cease mandating dangerous criminals to "self help groups"?

"Please consider signing this petition which has been started to raise awareness about the criminal elements of AA, and also with the hope that judges stop mandating felons to self help groups."

Is A.A. a "self-help group" or a religion wherein participants do not depend on human power but instead on the power of God? Maybe you could more clearly delineate between the two? Maybe you could correct this oversight?

"The fool is always beginning to live."

Gunthar2000's picture

Gunthar2000

Fri, 11/16/2012 - 22:10

Another circular argument with you?

No thanks.

AA is a religious cult dressed up to look like a treatment for alcoholism.

Gunthar2000

http://www.expaa.org/

lonestar's picture

lonestar

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 00:55

I see you corrected your spelling in the original post; why won't you correct your website? Won't take responsibility for the website content? What's circular about that? It's a straight line to a lack of integrity.

Thanks for that update.

"The fool is always beginning to live."

JR Harris's picture

JR Harris

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 05:43



"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

lonestar's picture

lonestar

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 09:51

This is thoroughly unoriginal, JR Harris. It's already been done with regard to my presence on this forum. Please return to the drawing board and create something from your own inspiration and quit borrowing hate from others. You're as bad as you allege Bill Wilson was with his rip-off artistry.

By the way, did you ever dredge up that irrefutable proof that Bill Wilson actually said he believed he was Christ incarnate? No? Time to service that Univac - maybe it has a virus.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1WGKGZZ4U0

"The fool is always beginning to live."

Pennywise's picture

Pennywise

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 12:04

I like the Wizard of Oz motif. Here we have an idiot, a heartless man, a pussy, and a vulnerable newcomer all "stepping" down a road to meet a mystical wizard who is supposed to miraculously grant their wishes if they do as he says. Along the way they must battle a wicked adversary who is cunning, baffling, and powerful. Then in the end, they learn that the wizard is a manipulative con man, that the power to achieve their wishes was within themselves all along, and that their powerful foe could be killed with a bucket of water. There's no place like the Orange Papers.

"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid."

lonestar's picture

lonestar

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 13:03

Why, we even have a yuppie monkey, second cousin to a flying monkey. We also have AltCult soldiers who march lockstep to the sound of the words "victim", "adultery", "con man", "Ouija board", "LSD" and that happy combo phrase, "lying, cheating, thieving . . ." We also have cowering little people who live in fear of what they presume to be a threatening power (the green-faced "wicked witch") who really is just another benign individual trying to get by in this world, misinterpreted and assigned evil attributes that do not exist.

It's a good thing there's no place like the Orange Papers Forum. One place is enough.

"The fool is always beginning to live."

Pennywise's picture

Pennywise

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 13:09

who really is just another benign individual trying to get by in this world, misinterpreted and assigned evil attributes that do not exist

You ever read the book "Wicked"? If not, you might like it.

"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid."

lonestar's picture

lonestar

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 13:23

Why? What's the plot?

"The fool is always beginning to live."

Pennywise's picture

Pennywise

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 14:44

From Wiki:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wicked:_The_Life_and_Times_of_the_Wicked_Wi...

Wicked: The Life and Times of the Wicked Witch of the West is a parallel novel published in 1995 written by Gregory Maguire and illustrated by Douglas Smith. It is a revisionist look at the land and characters of Oz from L. Frank Baum's 1900 novel The Wonderful Wizard of Oz, its sequels, and the 1939 film adaption The Wizard of Oz. Unlike the popular 1939 movie and Baum's writings, this novel is not directed at children, and contains adult language and content including violent imagery and sexual situations.

It is the first in "The Wicked Years" series, and was followed by Son of a Witch (published in September 2005), A Lion Among Men (published in October 2008), and Out of Oz (published in November 2011).

An unabridged audiobook, read by John McDonough, was released in 2000. In 2003, the novel became the basis for the Broadway musical Wicked.

The novel presents events, characters and situations from Baum's books and the film in new ways, with many differences between the series and the Wicked Years. The social strife described in the Wicked Years indicates that the two series are set in similar and internally consistent but distinctly separate visions of Oz. It also sets the reader thinking about what it really is to be "Wicked", and whether good intentions with bad results are the same as bad intentions with bad results.

The novel is a political, social, and ethical commentary on the nature of good and evil and takes place in The Land of Oz, in the years leading to Dorothy's arrival. The story centers on Elphaba, the misunderstood green-skinned girl who grows up to become the notorious Wicked Witch of the West. Gregory Maguire fashioned the name of Elphaba ( /ˈɛlfəbə/) from the initials of Lyman Frank Baum, L-F-B. The story is divided into five different sections based on the plot location. There is also a prologue where Elphaba is spying on Dorothy and her friends, hearing their gossip about her.

In many ways, Lonestar, you remind me of the protagonist, Elphaba. That's not an insult.

"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid."

lonestar's picture

lonestar

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 21:09

Thanks for that, Pennywise. I'll look into it when I get home. :-)

"The fool is always beginning to live."

dandammit's picture

dandammit

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 12:10

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xs1bhyMb_Kg

lonestar's picture

lonestar

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 13:04

Jumping on the safety bandwagon, dan? Wanting to be "a part of"?

"The fool is always beginning to live."

Rachel (not verified)

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 13:34

"Oh Jeeze! Another circular argument with you? No thanks."

This is not a circular argument. It is very linear with very specific questions for you to answer. Come on you can do it. I understand that you do not like your intellect being challenged but this a "caveman" could answer.

live_free_or_die's picture

live_free_or_die

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 10:11

Speaking of which, judge, can you provide irrefutable proof that AA/12 steps works? Or works for some people, say 5% of all people that buy into the magical thinking of AA/12 steps? Or can you provide irrefutable proof that drinking excess amounts of alcohol is a disease, a disease concept that Bill W. & Marty Mann pushed and promoted?

In addition judge, I believe you have said that the 12 steps are not what is keeping you sober. If you have not been to an AA meeting in over 20 plus years shouldn't you be dead?

Alcoholics Anonymous: MyNotGodHasItCovered®
http://www.expaa.org/
http://bereanresearch.com/
http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/
NOT AA:
Rational Recovery, SOS, HAMS
http://alcoholabusesolutions.com/

lonestar's picture

lonestar

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 11:39

What do you mean "that AA/12 steps works"? Please define "magical thinking" without pejoratives. I have already told you I don't endorse or oppose the disease theory because I am not convinced either way.

You know my story. I don't have to repeat it here. The fact that I'm not dead after leaving A.A. over 20 years ago should tell you that there are enduring benefits to the program. Why do you want to hijack your own argument?

"The fool is always beginning to live."

live_free_or_die's picture

live_free_or_die

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 11:54

Alcoholics Anonymous: MyNotGodHasItCovered®
http://www.expaa.org/
http://bereanresearch.com/
http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/
NOT AA:
Rational Recovery, SOS, HAMS
http://alcoholabusesolutions.com/

lonestar's picture

lonestar

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 13:04

"Easy"? If I were "easy" you wouldn't be compelled to return againandagainandagainandagain to try to censor and belittle me.

Why you no use the meme right?

You forgot your question mark.

"The fool is always beginning to live."

seagal007

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 17:23

The very person who claimed the 10 commandments are universally good? The one that ran like hell when I asked her about the 1st commandment? Though lonestar claims to be an independent thinker She only tends to agree with large religious dogma, weather it be 12 steps or 10 commandments. Lonestar is incapable of thinking outside of the box.

Understanding and Empowerment=Freedom

live_free_or_die's picture

live_free_or_die

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 17:39

You raise an excellent point. What was I thinking. Judge lon"e"star seems to be trapped in a box.

Alcoholics Anonymous: MyNotGodHasItCovered®
http://www.expaa.org/
http://bereanresearch.com/
http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/
NOT AA:
Rational Recovery, SOS, HAMS
http://alcoholabusesolutions.com/

lonestar's picture

lonestar

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 21:56

It's true, I used to hide out in small spaces with an audio engineer. Finally married him in '83.

"The fool is always beginning to live."

lonestar's picture

lonestar

Sat, 11/17/2012 - 21:55

So seagal, you are then asserting that the 10 Commandments are universally BAD, is that correct? Which parts are the worst?

I did not run like hell from you for any reason. I am on a road trip and the wi-fi in my motel is sketchy and has completely deleted a half-dozen drafts of responses to questions on this forum, in my email accounts, on Facebook. I have not had time to reconstruct them. Do not think I will run from anything you throw my way. I'm not fearful of your snide, bitchy snarks and if you want to know my thoughts on any particular topic I'll respond if you can ask me without insult. If you throw an insult into the question it turns into a rhetorical question for me, one that need not be addressed because the answer is not the point, the insult is.

What "large religious dogma" do you contend I agree with? I'm familiar with much dogma but I agree with very little of it, actually. So I'm interested to know what drew you to that conclusion because it is so erroneous.

I will not correct your spelling, even though it's very tempting.

"The fool is always beginning to live."

SimonTemplar

Sun, 11/18/2012 - 01:27

Sometimes,I believe my teacher.this black box will bring problems not solutions.such ranting and raveing
Damn-I might just as well be at a rock concert and drown out the noise,
Able to leap tall buildings,in a single bound,more powerful than a locomotive,faster than a speeding bullet.And who,DEE SKIESED as mild mannered Clark Kent ,carries on a never ending battle for truth,justice and the American way. Wow.One suicide and amazing amount of commo.Seagal, glad that you are alive.that you did not pull the trigger.I'm lucky.I was able to go in and out of actual psychotherapy treatment for alcoholism.Without and stinking thinking.Exercise.I am a tai chi addict.Need my one hour or more daily.So for exercise,try swimming.Tai chi is also called sqimming boxing,as all of the movements resemble swimming in air.Actually,if you were to practise the moves from crawl,or breast stroke,or sidestroke and do them slowly,with dtan-tien breathing -=it would be tai chi.
years ago.I was banned in boston.1976.I lost my choice of some of the very best women that I've ever seen inmy life.women who actually practised the 4 techniques ofknowledge and had a genuine experience of God,the priceless self.Ten years after/1986 for those who have trouble counting.
A false friend,someone that I believed was my friend.Came to me to make ammends.He was dieing from AIDS.He wanted me to know that i had been banned in boston,by a group of people just like him
HOMOSEXUALS--BUT CLOSET HOMOSEXUALS.He was open and honest about being gay.The idea has stayed with me.They understood enough about nhuman nature to know that if they pointed one finger atme=noone,and I mean noone would see the three fingers that they were pointing at themselves.They cost me years of my life.I wasted enough time in AA to see reaal clarity.Was useful to the point of 90 days.
then what was my strength,became obviously my weakness.Lomg time to accept reality.All that AA has done for the last 7 years is to me,not for me.Once in a long while,good to remmeber what life was when drunk.Attending ameeting and seeing how they were just the same still as I had been.No change.Still hate,hate,hate.Control.Being around these insane people,just made me feel anger that spilled over into mylife.to the ones that I love.worthless.For now,I stay away.Good forum topic would be.Why did we drink.
What were the reasons for our drinking.Seagal-with what you've been through.it's amazing that you R alive.I was with one Viet Vet who escaped from being a prisoner of war.They broke a finger a day on his hands and shot him 5 times through the flesh just for shits and grins.He chewed through the bamboo,underwater and escaped.I heard 2 doctors saying that of 24 prisoners who escaped,during the vietnam war.He was one of 3 who were still alive.the other 21 had committed suicide.He was begginning to live the rest of his life in a mental hospital. I never saw myself as a dangerous man until I met him. I realized that for me.killing anyone ,after a certain point would be easy.I thank Maharaji for telling me that I do not have the right to travel around the world killing people,not even for God and country.Oh and by the way. re Sandy B. I am the one who keeps telling her to buy a good quality sawed off double 4/10 shotgun.Alternate slugs and birdshot.Birdshot for crowds and slugs for one on one.pro Psychiatry and anti AA.assholes. Peace and Love.Hey Lonestar:stay on the forum.Some good comments/bad.

I SPY

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