Why would Boniface, who dedicated his life to conquering paganism, help Bill Wilson write a book that allows one to pick a god/higher power of one's choosing? Wouldn't Boniface have insisted on the Catholic God, given his history? How do you square this?
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02656a.htm
Boniface returned to Upper Hessia and repaired the losses which occurred during his absence, many having drifted back into paganism; he also administered everywhere the Sacrament of Confirmation. He continued his work in Lower Hessia. To show the heathens how utterly powerless were the gods in whom they placed their confidence, Boniface felled the oak sacred to the thunder-god Thor, at Geismar, near Fritzlar. He had a chapel built out of the wood and dedicated it to the prince of the Apostles. The heathens were astonished that no thunderbolt from the hand of Thor destroyed the offender, and many were converted. The fall of this oak marked the fall of heathenism. Tradition tells us that Boniface now passed on to the River Werra and there erected a Church of St. Vitus, around which sprang up a town which to the present day bears the name of Wannfried. At Eschwege he is said to have destroyed the statue of the idol Stuffo. Thence he went into Thuringia.
The difficulties that confronted him here were very great Christianity had indeed made great progress, but it had become mixed up with heretical tenets and pagan customs. This was due to a great extent to some Celtic missionaries, several of whom had never been ordained, while others had been raised to the priesthood by non-Catholic bishops, though all performed priestly functions. These taught doctrines and made use of ceremonies at variance with the teaching and use of the Roman Church, especially in regard to the celebration of Easter, the conferring of baptism, celibacy, the papal and episcopal authority. Besides, many were wanting in education, some scarcely able to read or write, and equally ready to hold services for the Christians and to offer sacrifices to the idols for the heathens. A neighbouring bishop (probably of Cologne) also gave trouble, by laying claim to a part of the district under Boniface's jurisdiction and treating his authority as an intrusion, thereby indirectly strengthening the party of the heretics. All this caused him great anxiety and suffering as may be seen from his letters to England. He overcame all, thanks to his episcopal dignity and to his own personality, full of courage and zeal in the cause which he defended, and supported by the authority of the pope and of Charles Martel.
Comments
flannigan
Sun, 07/29/2012 - 10:40
Permalink
@ Pennywise
Dead people do not write books. Too much hassle with the copyright.
alkieanon
Sun, 07/29/2012 - 10:46
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God Moves In A Mysterious Way
"God moves in a mysterious way
His wonders to perform;
He plants His footsteps in the sea
And rides upon the storm.
Deep in unfathomable mines
Of never failing skill
He treasures up His bright designs
And works His sovereign will.
Ye fearful saints, fresh courage take;
The clouds ye so much dread
Are big with mercy and shall break
In blessings on your head.
Judge not the Lord by feeble sense,
But trust Him for His grace;
Behind a frowning providence
He hides a smiling face.
His purposes will ripen fast,
Unfolding every hour;
The bud may have a bitter taste,
But sweet will be the flower.
Blind unbelief is sure to err
And scan His work in vain;
God is His own interpreter,
And He will make it plain."
http://www.cyberhymnal.org/htm/g/m/gmovesmw.htm
Pennywise
Sun, 07/29/2012 - 10:53
Permalink
Johnny take a walk with your
Johnny take a walk with your sister the moon
Let her pale light in to fill up your room
You've been living underground
Eating from a can
You've been running away
From what you don't understand...
Love
She's slippy
You're sliding down
She'll be there when you hit the ground
It's alright, it's alright, it's alright
She moves in mysterious ways
It's alright, it's alright, it's alright
She moves in mysterious ways
Johnny take a dive with your sister in the rain
Let her talk about the things you can't explain
To touch is to heal
To hurt is to steal
If you want to kiss the sky
Better learn how to kneel
(on your knees boy)
She's the wave
She turns the tide
She sees the man inside the child
[ Lyrics from: http://www.lyricsfreak.com/u/u2/mysterious+ways_20141387.html ]
It's alright, it's alright, it's alright
She moves in mysterious ways
It's alright, it's alright, it's alright
She moves in mysterious ways
It's alright, it's alright, it's alright
Lift my days, light up my nights
One day you will look...back
And you'll see...where
You were held...how
By this love...while
You could stand...there
You could move on this moment
Follow this feeling
It's alright, it's alright, it's alright
She moves in mysterious ways
It's alright, it's alright, it's alright
She moves in mysterious ways
It’s alright, it’s alright, it’s alright (Love, love)
She moves in mysterious ways (Oh no, oh no)
It’s alright, it’s alright, it’s alright (Move you, spirit, move, making love)
Spirit moves in mysterious ways (Yeah, move, yeah, move, make love)
It’s alright, it’s alright, alright (You move with it, she moves with it)
Lift my days, light up my nights, love
Lyrics | U2 lyrics - Mysterious Ways lyrics
"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid."
alkieanon
Sun, 07/29/2012 - 11:46
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In the Name of the Grandfather
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_the_Name_of_the_Grandfather
"We Move in Mysterious Ways" LOL!
LisaMarie
Sun, 07/29/2012 - 12:19
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I always thought boniface,
I always thought boniface, was an Innkeeper. I am not sure how this helped Bill...lol.
Maybe the spirit of Boniface looked at the 1300 years that had past since his death and understood changes needed to be made. So the spirit of boniface wanted, "to square" things. He chose Bill Wilson to spread his message.
Conan
Sun, 07/29/2012 - 12:28
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Completely wrong Danny
As usual, you've got it wrong. It's like a fingerprint with you. Boniface was a monk not an innkeeper. He is the patron saint of brewers though so, if he was talking to Bill W, he was laughing at him.
Danny is currently "Rachel" - watch out folks, he's learned how to use a spell checker...lol
LisaMarie
Sun, 07/29/2012 - 13:28
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Look up the definition of a
Look up the definition of a Boniface. One of the definitions defines a Boniface as an Innkeeper.
Stop with the knee-jerk responses, Conan.
Plus, I was making a funny....:)
Conan
Sun, 07/29/2012 - 14:13
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Stop being so stupid Danny
It's like a fingerprint with you.
Boniface is a name. The one in question is also a Saint. You can't look up the definition of people. You can look up people's opinions of people. Try Danny Bennison on fornits - quite an eye opener.
Danny is currently "Rachel" - watch out folks, he's learned how to use a spell checker...lol
becket
Sun, 07/29/2012 - 14:30
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You've really glommed onto
You've really glommed onto the "fingerprint" idea, haven't you? Tired, tedious, and not even original, as you ripped this from another poster.
Plant an idea and water it, please.
“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian
Conan
Sun, 07/29/2012 - 14:35
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Could there be a reason for it bucket?
Now think. Really hard. See if you can come up with a reason. There is one.
Danny is currently "Rachel" - watch out folks, he's learned how to use a spell checker...lol
Persephone In Exile
Sun, 07/29/2012 - 16:45
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Not a bad idea, though.
Not a bad idea, though.
http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/
LisaMarie
Sun, 07/29/2012 - 15:09
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Look at who is being stubborn
Look at who is being stubborn now. Grow up, Conan. It was meant to be funny. Move on, dick.
Ironic
Sun, 07/29/2012 - 16:54
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Conan
Always appreciate it when someone makes me literally LOL.
Ty ;)
YuppieMonkey
Sun, 07/29/2012 - 12:25
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In the right place
Pennywise, if a stepper believes that Bill W actually talked to this Boniface character, don't you think they are in the right place and belong in the 12 step cult religion?
"You'll pay to know what you really think". - J.R. Bob Dobbs
LisaMarie
Sun, 07/29/2012 - 13:28
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Yuppie, we all talk to
Yuppie, we all talk to Boniface. It is an AA worldwide ritual the third Friday of every month. This meditation can happen at anytime on this third Friday. But remember it has to be on this day, you have 24 hours.
If you fail and try to alter this ritual by meditating before or after this specific date, AA will not be responsible for the consequences.
Conan
Sun, 07/29/2012 - 14:14
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Attempt at humour Danny?
FAIL!!!!
Danny is currently "Rachel" - watch out folks, he's learned how to use a spell checker...lol
becket
Sun, 07/29/2012 - 14:31
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Is the issue that Bill Wilson
Is the issue that Bill Wilson "talked to Boniface" or that he believed he was being "guided" by Boniface? These are two different things.
“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian
Pennywise
Sun, 07/29/2012 - 14:34
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Please explain how the
Please explain how the difference is relevant. According to AA theology, Boniface contacted Bill Wilson from the dead and helped him write the 12&12.
"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid."
LisaMarie
Sun, 07/29/2012 - 15:02
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“One turned up the other day
I have not been able to find a quote from Bill that unequivocally states that Boniface dictated the 12&12 to him. I must not be looking at the same references some of you people are.
I have heard 2nd and 3rd parties say this but not Bill himself. I could be mistaken.
YuppieMonkey
Sun, 07/29/2012 - 15:09
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No Difference Becker
"Bill Wilson "talked to Boniface" or that he believed he was being "guided" by Boniface? These are two different things".
Bill Wilson talked to Binface = Bat.Shit.Crazy
Bill Wilson was guided by Boniface = Bat.Shit.Crazy
Either way, Bat.Shit.Crazy
Nope, see no difference here.
"You'll pay to know what you really think". - J.R. Bob Dobbs
LisaMarie
Sun, 07/29/2012 - 15:14
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Yuppie, you don't believe
Yuppie, you don't believe there exist a parallel universe, a spiritual world, ghosts, people from the dead who speak or something like I am describing.
If not life must be boring.
YuppieMonkey
Sun, 07/29/2012 - 15:42
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Spare me the BULLSHIT!
"If not life must be boring".
Yep. Life is pretty boring when you have your own architecture firm and need to constantly be up to date on Design Development, building codes and regulations, AutoCAD software and drafting standards, construction materials and methods, Project managing and construction Administration along with marketing and accounting.
Throw in the wife, family and friends, beach volleyball and maintaining the pool and rental properties.
But yep...if you are not practicing cult religion and hearing voices from the dead, then man, life must be boring.
Tools, Tards, Dolts...DOPES!!!
"You'll pay to know what you really think". - J.R. Bob Dobbs
Clara
Sun, 07/29/2012 - 16:54
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Good life, YM. Congrats!
Good life, YM. Congrats!
Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.
becket
Sun, 07/29/2012 - 17:14
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"Yep. Life is pretty boring
"Yep. Life is pretty boring when you have your own architecture firm and need to constantly be up to date on Design Development, building codes and regulations, AutoCAD software and drafting standards, construction materials and methods, Project managing and construction Administration along with marketing and accounting.
Throw in the wife, family and friends, beach volleyball and maintaining the pool and rental properties."
Please spill your slow-swimmers in a sock and not on the floor. Your wife doesn't need to clean that shit up after you. AutoCAD? How appropriate.
“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian
LisaMarie
Sun, 07/29/2012 - 19:03
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YuppieMonkey,
YuppieMonkey,
Not sure if you are from the USA or UK but I work closely with Brasfield & Gorrie, Skanska USA Civil and Flintco. All are large Construction Co's. Skanska being the largest and longest client I have worked with.
Yes, I also need to be up to date on "Design Development, building codes and regulations, AutoCAD software and RFMS Software, construction materials and methods, Project managing and construction administration along with marketing and accounting.
I do work very closely with the architect and depend upon the assistant greatly. Especially just before those pesky construction scheduling meetings the GC has that "independant" firm run. You know the meeting they have twice a month to make sure the job stays on schedule."
Conan
Sun, 07/29/2012 - 19:21
Permalink
Hi Danny, want to do lunch sometime?
You around S. Prospect Street offices or over at NE 13th ever? I'm at one most days, we're bound to bump into each other. Let's do lunch.
Danny is currently "Rachel" - watch out folks, he's learned how to use a spell checker...lol
LisaMarie
Sun, 07/29/2012 - 19:48
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Silly, silly, silly....who is
Silly, silly, silly....who is this guy?
becket
Sun, 07/29/2012 - 20:32
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Far as I can tell, he's
Far as I can tell, he's either btnben or a cheap imitation of an already cheap imitation.
“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian
Clara
Mon, 07/30/2012 - 13:54
Permalink
The photo looks like an
The photo looks like an Ernest T variation of Wayne but anger over spelling, grammar, and the attempts to control women tend to sound like Ben.
Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.
becket
Thu, 08/02/2012 - 18:04
Permalink
I think the photo looks like
I think the photo looks like a still from the "Hee Haw" cornfield.
“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian
YuppieMonkey
Mon, 07/30/2012 - 05:49
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Are these Architects still alive?
"I do work very closely with the architect and depend upon the assistant greatly".
What exactly do you do?
"You'll pay to know what you really think". - J.R. Bob Dobbs
LisaMarie
Mon, 07/30/2012 - 14:48
Permalink
Yes these architects are
Yes these architects are still alive, funny guy. I am part of the finish work, you would find me in the A section of the blue print. I also work closely with the designers, who btw work closely with you also.
I am not going to give out more information here.
Persephone In Exile
Sun, 07/29/2012 - 16:51
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LisaMarie, so you are mocking
LisaMarie, so you are mocking people who don't believe in an alternate "universe" populated with spirits that can talk to the living? Interesting position.
http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/
LisaMarie
Sun, 07/29/2012 - 18:36
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Perse, Noooooo...I wasn't.
Perse, Noooooo...I wasn't. Just asking Yuppie if he did.
Persephone In Exile
Sun, 07/29/2012 - 16:44
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YuppieMonkey, agreed. Either
YuppieMonkey, agreed. Either way, BATSHITCRAZY!!
http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/
becket
Sun, 07/29/2012 - 17:14
Permalink
Who's mocking here?
Who's mocking here?
“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian
live_free_or_die
Mon, 07/30/2012 - 06:16
Permalink
What exactly do you do judge?
When you are not talking to refridgerators, that is.
Alcoholics Anonymous: MyNotGodHasItCovered®
http://www.expaa.org/
http://bereanresearch.com/
http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/
NOT AA:
Rational Recovery, SOS, HAMS
http://alcoholabusesolutions.com/
live_free_or_die
Tue, 07/31/2012 - 05:14
Permalink
becket says "You're not thinking clearly."
yet becket talks to refridgerators. LOL!
Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.
Alcoholics Anonymous: MyNotGodHasItCovered®
http://www.expaa.org/
http://bereanresearch.com/
http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/
NOT AA:
Rational Recovery, SOS, HAMS
http://alcoholabusesolutions.com/
becket
Tue, 07/31/2012 - 16:59
Permalink
Misspelling! Bend over and
Misspelling! Bend over and let Conan whip the shit out of you.
“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian
becket
Sun, 07/29/2012 - 17:07
Permalink
You're not thinking clearly.
You're not thinking clearly. They are definitely two different things. Talking to a dead person is not at all uncommon; many people, if not most people, engage in this behavior at some time during their lives, when a loved one dies and they are reminded of that loved one in some way. There is nothing unnatural or unbalanced about it. It's no different than telling a refrigerator you hope it keeps things cool all night when the power goes off, or a suitor telling a bunch of flowers, "Do your best to make a good impression on Mary!"
Many Catholics (and Bill was a Catholic, if I'm not mistaken) speak to the saints in times of trial, such as when an article is lost (St. Anthony) or they are faced with a tax audit (St. Jude). It is part of the nomenclature of the religion and it is quite common. If Bill Wilson believed he was being guided by Boniface, then he drew some sort of inspiration from the saint in whom he believed. You can call it bat shit crazy if you must, but I find that right disrespectful toward not only Bill Wilson but toward all human beings who put faith in the unknown. Where is your humanity? Where is your tolerance? Or are you a person who is so wrapped up in himself that he insists his way is the only way and all others are full of shit? What is it that makes you so intolerant, so hateful, so narrow-minded, so arrogant and flip? You regularly pop in here to pick and choose the people whom you think you can insult with the least amount of effort and thought, and then you go back to your allegedly satisfying life of glory and fulfillment. I don't buy that scenario for a moment. A truly happy person wouldn't have to stoop to shit like that. But if living above the surface of the ground, without contact and compassion, keeps you breathing, have at it.
“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian
Pennywise
Sun, 07/29/2012 - 17:15
Permalink
Bill thought Boniface talked
Bill thought Boniface talked back to him. That is crazy.
"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid."
Clara
Sun, 07/29/2012 - 17:25
Permalink
I can't speak for Bill, but I
I can't speak for Bill, but I have felt my father directed a couple of actions. I know I didn't come up with that good idea on my own, I'll tell you! Maybe i was a combination of good things when I was thinking about him.
Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.
live_free_or_die
Sun, 07/29/2012 - 17:33
Permalink
Speaking for billy w
Well, if you talk to dead people why can't you speak for billy w?
Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!
Alcoholics Anonymous: MyNotGodHasItCovered®
http://www.expaa.org/
http://bereanresearch.com/
http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/
NOT AA:
Rational Recovery, SOS, HAMS
http://alcoholabusesolutions.com/
becket
Sun, 07/29/2012 - 18:14
Permalink
Talking to someone is not
Talking to someone is not talking for someone.
“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian
live_free_or_die
Mon, 07/30/2012 - 06:12
Permalink
How often do you discuss things w/your fridge judge?
Bwhahahahahahahahahahaha!
An insane stepper is what you are judge becker.
Alcoholics Anonymous: MyNotGodHasItCovered®
http://www.expaa.org/
http://bereanresearch.com/
http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/
NOT AA:
Rational Recovery, SOS, HAMS
http://alcoholabusesolutions.com/
Conan
Mon, 07/30/2012 - 06:39
Permalink
Is it only the fridge
that has these communication skills or does this apply to all domestic appliances? Is the vacuum a shouter to overcome the noise of operation, or does it prattle away when turned off? These are important questions bucket. People want to know.
My advice bucket - ignore the voices and keep on killing.
Danny is currently "Rachel" - watch out folks, he's learned how to use a spell checker...lol
becket
Mon, 07/30/2012 - 12:24
Permalink
I did not say the appliance
I did not say the appliance itself has communication skills - here again, more manipulation of text and intent. You have no integrity.
I do not ignore what my mind tells me. That would be foolish, now wouldn't it btnben? What do you mean by "keep on killing"? This is a rather outlandish accusation. I would love to read what you mean by it, if you can hastily cobble together some bullshit to tag onto the lie.
“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian
becket
Mon, 07/30/2012 - 12:25
Permalink
Every time I open the door
"How often do you discuss things w/your fridge judge?"
Every time I open the door and there is nothing good to eat inside. It could be a simple word, like "Shit!" or it could be a diatribe, starting with "Why is everything in here geared to healthful living when all I really want is a piece of coconut cream pie?"
By the way, thinking it is the same as saying it. Go 'head. Try not to think it.
“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian
live_free_or_die
Tue, 07/31/2012 - 05:16
Permalink
becket said "You're not thinking clearly.
bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.
Off the head meds again Old Man?
Alcoholics Anonymous: MyNotGodHasItCovered®
http://www.expaa.org/
http://bereanresearch.com/
http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/
NOT AA:
Rational Recovery, SOS, HAMS
http://alcoholabusesolutions.com/
becket
Sun, 07/29/2012 - 18:06
Permalink
Which yardstick are you using
Which yardstick are you using to measure "crazy"?
“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian
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