god® I love the stuff.
The Christians are condeming AA. LOL.
“Do not seek out mediums and spiritists; do not seek out and be defiled by them. I am the Lord your God.” (Leviticus 19:31)
http://mywordlikefire.wordpress.com/2008/09/24/seances-spirits-and-12-st...
Author Richard Burns, better known as Dick B., has been churning out books and articles on the alleged Christian origin of Alcoholics Anonymous for years. The prolific author has written Anne Smith’s Journal, Dr. Bob and His Library, and many, many others. Regrettably, in his nearly thirty books Dick B. has never acknowledged the influence of spiritualism upon the creation of the 12 Steps.
His books, however, have deeply influenced the Body of Christ. People frequently justify A.A. attendance with statements like, “Well, Alcoholics Anonymous was originally Christian.” Or, “The 12 Steps are based on the Bible.” A common misconception is that one or both Alcoholics Anonymous cofounders, Bill Wilson and Dr. Bob Smith, were Christians.[1] (Read)
In A.A. circles the cofounders are affectionately known as Dr. Bob and Bill W. Promoting one of his more recent titles, The Conversion of Bill W., Dick B. writes, “It’s an account of the many ways the Creator seems to have touched the life of Bill W. and, through him, the Fellowship of Alcoholics Anonymous.”[2]
The title alone gives the impression that A.A. cofounder Bill Wilson came to Christ. It is certainly true that Wilson was used powerfully and spiritually—but not by the God of the Bible. Wilson, in bondage to spiritualism, communed for decades with unclean spirits. This should be of paramount concern because Wilson was not only the cofounder of Alcoholics Anonymous, but also the man who wrote the 12 Steps.
Because there are so many movies, television shows, and novels glorifying communication with the spirit world, many in the Body of Christ may be unaware how fiercely the Lord our God forbids attempts to contact the dead.
“There shall not be found among you…a medium or a spiritist or one who calls up the dead. For whoever does these things is detestable to the Lord.” (Deuteronomy 18:10, 11, 12)
Why does the Lord declare people who do such things “detestable?” Because they have turned to a spiritual source other than the Lord God. This is a clear indication of a complete lack of Fear of the Lord. In addition, it is never the dead that are contacted but, rather, deceitful spirits posing as the dead. These spiritualistic practices therefore simultaneously disrespect the Lord and place those who undertake them at risk.
Examined over several decades, it is clear A.A. cofounder Bill Wilson repeatedly and willingly gave himself over to familiar spirits. A.A. historian Ernest Kurtz notes, “So profound was Bill’s immersion in this area that he at times confused the terms ‘spiritualism’ and ‘spirituality.’”[3]
“As for the person who turns to mediums and spiritists, to play the harlot after them, I will also set My Face against that person and will cut him off from his people.” (Leviticus 20:6)
In PASS IT ON, A.A.’s official biography of Bill Wilson, Lois Wilson recounts some of her husband’s experiences of 1941. Saturday was generally the scheduled day for these psychic adventures. “Bill would lie down on the couch. He would ‘get’ these things. He kept doing it every week or so. Each time, certain people would ‘come in.’ Sometimes, it would be new ones, and they’d carry on some story.”[4]
So, “every week or so,” Wilson would open himself to this entity (or entities), and “certain people would ‘come in.’” Today this is known as channeling. Author and A.A. apologist Dick B. has written of Wilson’s spiritualism, but gives it no emphasis as a factor in the origin of either A.A. or the 12 Steps.
Writer Matthew J. Raphael is far less coy. A member of Alcoholics Anonymous himself, Raphael observes, “it might be said for the cofounders at least, A.A. was entangled with spiritualism from the very beginning.”[5]
Raphael explains, “Wilson himself seems to have been an ‘adept,’ that is, ‘gifted’ in the psychic sense; and he served as a medium for a variety of ‘controls,’ some of them recurrent. ‘Controls,’ in the lingo of spiritualism, are the discarnate entities who seem to usurp a medium’s identity and literally speak through him or (far more usually) her. Sometimes a control answers questions; sometimes a spirit seems to materialize.”[6]
One of the most beloved pieces of 12 Step literature is the collection of essays, Twelve Steps and Twelve Traditions, written by Wilson in the 1950s. This popular book is often called, simply, the “12X12.” While working on it, Wilson exchanged letters with Father Ed Dowling, a Catholic priest Bill often looked to for advice. In his letter of July 17, 1952, the A.A. cofounder informs Dowling he is receiving help with the book from the spirit world.
Wilson writes, “One turned up the other day calling himself Boniface. Said he was a Benedictine missionary and English. Had been a man of learning, knew missionary work and a lot about structures. I think he said this all the more modestly but that was the gist of it. I’d never heard of this gentleman but he checked out pretty well in the Encyclopedia. If this one is who he says he is—and of course there is no way of knowing—would this be licit contact in your book?”[7]
On July 24, 1952, Father Dowling responds, “Boniface sounds like the Apostle of Germany. I still feel, like MacBeth, that these folks tell us the truth in smaller matters in order to fool us in larger. I suppose that is my lazy orthodoxy.”[8]
In his August 2, 1952 letter, Wilson writes back, “…the spook business is no longer any burning issue as far as I am concerned.”[9] But then, Wilson casually mentions, “Without inviting it, I still sometimes get an intrusion such as the one I described in the case of the purported Boniface.”[10]
Bill Wilson, without knowing it, was paying the price for reaching out to unclean and lying spirits. The Lord had “set My Face against” him. (Leviticus 20:6) The Lord, who is a consuming fire, had found Wilson, ever the rebel against Christ, “detestable.” (Deuteronomy 18:12)
To some, this was long evident. Henrietta Seiberling, the woman who first introduced the A.A. cofounders to one another in 1935, had likely been aware of Bill Wilson’s unholy activities for years. While she had never particularly liked him, her July 31, 1952 letter resonates with her horror and disgust over his spiritual descent.
She writes of Wilson, “He imagines himself all kinds of things. His hand ‘writes’ dictation from a Catholic priest, whose name I forget, from the 1600 period who was in Barcelona, Spain—again, he told Horace Crystal he was completing the works that Christ didn’t finish, and according to Horace he said he was a reincarnation of Christ. Perhaps he got mixed in whose reincarnation he was. It looks more like the works of the devil but I could be wrong. I don’t know what is going on in that poor deluded fellow’s mind.”[11]
“And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper…” (Romans 1:28)
According to PASS IT ON, Bill Wilson considered that “spiritistic matters were no mere parlor game. It’s not clear when he first became interested in extrasensory phenomena; the field was something that Dr. Bob and Anne Smith were also deeply involved with. Whether or not Bill initially became interested through them, there are references to séances and other psychic events in the letters Bill wrote to [wife] Lois during that first Akron summer with the Smiths, in 1935.”[12]
Bill Wilson and Dr. Bob engaged in these practices starting in 1935. The 12 Steps were written in 1938. PASS IT ON actually raises the possibility that Wilson may have been introduced to these activities through Dr. Bob and his wife, Anne. Perhaps so, but it is clear all three were participating in séances (and other activities) during the same period they were involved with the pseudo-Christian Oxford Group. This is significant because the cofounders’ attendance at Oxford Group meetings has long been misrepresented as evidence of the Christian origin of Alcoholics Anonymous.
For those who have not read Dick B.’s books portraying the 12 Steps as Christian, Dick B. works very hard to show Bill Wilson’s biblical influences, his reliance on Reverend Sam Shoemaker, and so on. Since Wilson was not a Christian himself, Dick B. for years presented a “12-Steps-are-Christian-by-osmosis” approach.
In the last few years, however, Dick B. has decided to portray Bill Wilson as a Christian!
Francis Hartigan was the secretary for Lois Wilson, Bill’s wife, for thirteen years. He had many conversations with Lois about Bill. He writes, “[A.A. co-founder Bill Wilson's] belief in God might have become unshakeable, but he could never embrace any theology or even the divinity of Jesus, and he went to his grave unable to give his personal idea of God much definition. In this sense, he was never very far removed from the unbelievers.” (Bill W., by Francis Hartigan, pg. 123) (Bold mine)
Here is how PASS IT ON describes Bill Wilson and the arrival of the 12 Steps. “As he started to write, he asked for guidance. And he relaxed. The words began tumbling out with astonishing speed. He completed the first draft in about half an hour, then kept on writing until he felt he should stop and review what he had written.”[13]
According to PASS IT ON, Wilson asked for “guidance” as he began writing. But guidance from what? The unsaved Wilson was eager to receive messages and leadings from the spirit world. We see this in the 1930s, 1940s, and 1950s.
We see in the 1940s that Wilson allowed unclean spirits to speak through him. We know from Wilson’s 1952 letter to Father Ed Dowling that the book, ‘Twelve Steps and Twelve Traditions’ was influenced by a spirit called Boniface. How many more, then, of Wilson’s books and articles were demonically guided? Some? None? All?
One thing is certain. It is virtually impossible that a man engaged in practices the Lord finds so “detestable” that He promises to “set My Face against that person” could have been given these 12 Steps by Jesus Christ. (Deut. 18:10-12 and Lev. 20:6)
T.A. McMahon, Editor of the Berean Call, writes, “A.A.’s official biography indicates Bill Wilson received the details of the 12 Steps through spirit dictation. Does anyone see a simple, idolatrous problem here?”[14]
McMahon then addresses the well meaning effort to offer “Christ centered” 12 Step support groups. “But what about evangelicals just using the methodology the familiar spirit gave to Bill Wilson? Simple again: God condemns the source, and the approach is contrary to the way He wants to transform our lives. Furthermore, why turn to such a spiritually toxic system? Where are the evangelical pastors’ heads in this?”[15]
The evangelical pastors’ heads have been in books by Dick B., books which tend to downplay or ignore the many anti-Biblical ingredients that went into the simmering, sulphurous creation of Alcoholics Anonymous. In this article we have been examining spiritualism and the 12 Steps. We could just as easily point out A.A.’s other aberrant roots: the New Thought heresies, the swiss-cheese theology of the Oxford Group, Dr. Bob’s Masonic background, or even the dangerous meditative practices of Oxford Group/early Alcoholics Anonymous.
Okay, then should Christians even attend groups? Absolutely. We call them “Bible Studies.” A strong church can do much to help alcoholics and their families. Bondage to alcohol is no light thing. Our mistake has been to seek worldly and unholy solutions, even attempting to “Christianize” them, rather than relying on prayer, the Word of God, and the fellowship of the saints.
***************************************************
And to think that billy w thought of himself as jesus reincarnate. LOL.
Comments
Conan
Fri, 07/20/2012 - 11:44
Permalink
Get your facts straight LFOD
Bill W was only Jesus on Fridays. The rest of the week he was Napoleon.
Danny is currently "Rachel" - watch out folks, he's learned how to use a spell checker...lol
live_free_or_die
Fri, 07/20/2012 - 17:31
Permalink
I stand corrected
: )
Alcoholics Anonymous: MyNotGodHasItCovered®
http://www.expaa.org/
http://bereanresearch.com/
http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/
NOT AA:
Rational Recovery, SOS, HAMS
http://alcoholabusesolutions.com/
Orange
Fri, 07/20/2012 - 15:02
Permalink
so true
I like to say that A.A. is more like Satan-worship than Christianity. You swear to surrender your soul to a "Higher Power", and be his groveling servant for all of Eternity, and seek and do His will all of the time, and recruit more souls for Him, and deceive the newcomers with slogans and fallacies and slogans and outright lies, and all that you ask in return is that He makes you quit drinking alcohol.
That seems to me to be a poor business proposition. I think my soul is worth more than that.
causeandeffect
Fri, 07/20/2012 - 20:38
Permalink
I agree. It's a perform-these
I agree. It's a perform-these-specific-rituals-and-you-will-get-everything-you-want kind of belief system. And if you don't it's jails, institutions and death for you! In the religious upbringing I had there was no such kind of God. Punishment and rewards were reserved for the afterlife and were the fruits of your deeds in life.
Troll free AA critical forum
http://www.expaa.org/
"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it." ~ Neil deGrasse Tyson
becket
Fri, 07/20/2012 - 21:31
Permalink
Orange, did you start out as
Orange, did you start out as an atheist or did atheism grab you more and more as time went on? How did psychedelics figure into your non-spiritual philosophy?
“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian
alkieanon
Fri, 07/20/2012 - 22:05
Permalink
Sounds Like A Win-Win Situation
Orange says: "... all that you ask in return is that He makes you quit drinking alcohol."
That seems to me to be an excellent business proposition. I think my soul is worth saving. Better safe than sorry.
Clara
Fri, 07/20/2012 - 22:12
Permalink
Yup.
Yup.
Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.
SPK77
Mon, 07/23/2012 - 13:27
Permalink
LOL
LOL
becket
Fri, 07/20/2012 - 17:09
Permalink
Let it go, Orange. Jesus. I
Let it go, Orange. Jesus. I understand that you have a gripe with AA, but to spend year after year giving voice to it is wasteful. Even your little ducks know better. Take a break.
“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian
becket
Fri, 07/20/2012 - 17:18
Permalink
Since there is no "edit"
Since there is no "edit" option here, I will have to continue with an additional post. Your hatred of AA is so distilled that you seem to be corroding from the inside out. To what end do you nurse this contempt? Did gathering and interpreting The Orange Papers not afford you any semblance of peace or satisfaction? Sorry, just having trouble contemplating giving oneself over to a quiet rage such as yours, and inviting others to partake of the toxicity, regardless of the topic. I mean no disrespect here, I'm just trying to appreciate the value of keeping hatred alive. And if it isn't hatred, but it springs from a caring for your fellow travelers here, then why amplify your impressions so that others who have made AA a choice feel not only duped, but stupid and incapable of conducting their own affairs without interference?
“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian
Gunthar2000
Fri, 07/20/2012 - 17:21
Permalink
bucket is playing...
bucket is playing the "hate" card again.
AA is a religious cult dressed up to look like a treatment for alcoholism.
Gunthar2000
http://www.expaa.org/
Conan
Fri, 07/20/2012 - 17:27
Permalink
Isn't it sad G2K
When the hate card is all you have left. And isn't it funny when it's being played by the most hateful troll on here. Today has been real fun.
Danny is currently "Rachel" - watch out folks, he's learned how to use a spell checker...lol
becket
Fri, 07/20/2012 - 18:02
Permalink
Even more pathetic, isn't it
Even more pathetic, isn't it sad when hate is all you have left?
“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian
alkieanon
Fri, 07/20/2012 - 21:57
Permalink
All You Need Is ...
All You Need Is
LoveHate.alkieanon
Fri, 07/20/2012 - 21:55
Permalink
Trump Card
"A card in the trump suit, held in reserve for winning a trick."
live_free_or_die
Fri, 07/20/2012 - 17:23
Permalink
AA is a choice?
judge becket, of all AA members, what is your guestimate of AA members that are in AA by choice?
Alcoholics Anonymous: MyNotGodHasItCovered®
http://www.expaa.org/
http://bereanresearch.com/
http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/
NOT AA:
Rational Recovery, SOS, HAMS
http://alcoholabusesolutions.com/
becket
Fri, 07/20/2012 - 18:10
Permalink
"judge becket, of all AA
"judge becket, of all AA members, what is your guestimate of AA members that are in AA by choice?"
I have no "guesstimate". I understand many are there having been mandated to attend. I have addressed this issue googolplex times on this forum; if you doubt it, go fishing. However, AA is still a choice for many, even those who fail to secure sobriety through self-help or SMART or any of the other methods available. And in a way, those who have been mandated to attend meetings - against their will - actually made this choice when they initially broke whatever law it was that allowed a judge to mandate them. It is by their own hand, their own poor judgment, their own self-centeredness, their own criminality, that they must attend meetings. They chose to be criminals - so they should man up and pay the price for their crimes. I don't pity them; I pity those who have to be around them.
Of course, Pennywise is exempt from this description, having volunteered himself for lifetime AA meetings for some reason.
“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian
Clara
Sat, 07/21/2012 - 09:16
Permalink
It certainly isn't my
It certainly isn't my experience that 50% of the people in the rooms are mandated. What gets me is that while these people on the board lobby for the choices on the part of those poor criminals, it's not accepted that they did have a choice in their behavior. They also beat up on those AA groups that choose by group conscience not to participate in people being in AA by anything other than the third tradition, which seems contradictory. I've concluded that merit and constitutionality has nothing to do with it. It's just another area to bitch over...
Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.
avogadno
Fri, 07/20/2012 - 17:47
Permalink
I think that Orange and the
I think that Orange and the others that have devoted thousands of hours exposing a cult that hurts people deserves an award.
Pro Empowerment!
Truth about AA: http://orange-papers.org/menu1.html
Expose AA: http://www.expaa.org/
becket
Fri, 07/20/2012 - 18:10
Permalink
So give him an award.
So give him an award.
“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian
live_free_or_die
Sat, 07/21/2012 - 06:10
Permalink
Already suggested that
the award bit.
Alcoholics Anonymous: MyNotGodHasItCovered®
http://www.expaa.org/
http://bereanresearch.com/
http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/
NOT AA:
Rational Recovery, SOS, HAMS
http://alcoholabusesolutions.com/
patti
Fri, 07/20/2012 - 22:25
Permalink
Koo Koo for coconuts Becket,
Koo Koo for coconuts Becket,
different day same old & same old tired sorry ass deflections & stepper cards. Orange papers & this forum aren't about hating, dummy. They are about telling the truths about aa. You keep playing that tired old stepper hate card. Don't you ever get tired of your redundancy? Give it a break & try to come up with some new deflection tactics. Forget about manipulation tactics you just have no skills in that stepper past time.
patti
becket
Fri, 07/20/2012 - 22:44
Permalink
So you say, patti.
So you say, patti.
I will say I am tired of your redundancy & tired old anti-stepper bullshit & deflection tactics & unoriginal thought & hiding in the herd & manipulation & all the other bullshit you sling around here.
“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian
patti
Sat, 07/21/2012 - 07:02
Permalink
Becket,
Becket,
figured that is what you would respond. Same old & same old over & over. You've got nothing.
patti
becket
Sat, 07/21/2012 - 12:17
Permalink
patti,
patti,
figured that is what you would respond. Same old & same old over & over. You've got nothing.
But keep coming back. You grow a brain if you put in the time and effort.
“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian
live_free_or_die
Mon, 07/23/2012 - 15:42
Permalink
Dr. becket is offering medical advice on growing
brains now. LOL!
Alcoholics Anonymous: MyNotGodHasItCovered®
http://www.expaa.org/
http://bereanresearch.com/
http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/
NOT AA:
Rational Recovery, SOS, HAMS
http://alcoholabusesolutions.com/
live_free_or_die
Sat, 07/21/2012 - 07:11
Permalink
The best definition of AA I have ever heard
becket said: "I will say I am tired of your redundancy & tired old anti-stepper bullshit & deflection tactics & unoriginal thought & hiding in the herd & manipulation & all the other bullshit you sling around here.
AA says "keep Coming Back" - - So you can hear Fred's drunkalogue again, and again, and ..............
AA/12 steppers have rasied the utilization of defelction to an art form.
AA/12 steps was spawned in 1935, and has not changed the program since (Billy w took bits from different sources to make up his hokey religion-talk about unoriginal thought-LOL).
AA'ers hide in one of the biggest "herds: known to man ( I heard sheep-LOL)
AA is the full of manipulation-AA even has its own loaded language to lure one into the hokey religious cult of AA/12 steps. Language like denial, dry drunk, relapse, recovery, emotional sobriety, sober, sobriety, true sobriety and in recovery, to name a few.
AA is full of billyshit® becket.
So says I.
Alcoholics Anonymous: MyNotGodHasItCovered®
http://www.expaa.org/
http://bereanresearch.com/
http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/
NOT AA:
Rational Recovery, SOS, HAMS
http://alcoholabusesolutions.com/
becket
Sat, 07/21/2012 - 12:19
Permalink
Say all you like, shout it
Say all you like, shout it from the rooftops, floppy, it won't make it true and it will not discourage people from investigating AA if they choose to. Where are the 2.5 million potential posters who heartily agree with you?
“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian
live_free_or_die
Mon, 07/23/2012 - 17:16
Permalink
Johns Rooftop Bar
Thanks judge becket for allowing me to voice my opinions here. I certaily appreciate your permission judge.
Hey judge, if you are ever in KC let's you & I go to John's Upper Deck and shout billshits into the KC nightscape.
http://www.yelp.com/biz_photos/hFa1n2tkpVQ4S--wAAF74w?select=6l-GKGd3_en...
Alcoholics Anonymous: MyNotGodHasItCovered®
http://www.expaa.org/
http://bereanresearch.com/
http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/
NOT AA:
Rational Recovery, SOS, HAMS
http://alcoholabusesolutions.com/
live_free_or_die
Mon, 07/23/2012 - 15:48
Permalink
I've lost my edit button.
Anybody seen it? LOL!
Alcoholics Anonymous: MyNotGodHasItCovered®
http://www.expaa.org/
http://bereanresearch.com/
http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/
NOT AA:
Rational Recovery, SOS, HAMS
http://alcoholabusesolutions.com/
becket
Fri, 07/20/2012 - 17:19
Permalink
By the way, where did the
By the way, where did the "edit" function go?
“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian
Gunthar2000
Fri, 07/20/2012 - 17:27
Permalink
My edit button...
My edit button is working just fine.
AA is a religious cult dressed up to look like a treatment for alcoholism.
Gunthar2000
http://www.expaa.org/
alkieanon
Fri, 07/20/2012 - 18:31
Permalink
Censorship
And so it starts ....
Calinda (not verified)
Sat, 07/21/2012 - 07:33
Permalink
Orange said this on Rick Ross
Uncensored Posts to Rick Ross Forum
by A. Orange and others
Over at the Rick Ross web site, there has been an on-going debate about whether A.A. is a cult. James G. emailed me and told me about it, so I went and took a look. Rick Ross the moderator, was defending A.A., and declaring that it was not a cult — that is was just a nice organization that had helped many people. His exact words were: "It seems to me that AA has helped many people and doesn't hurt anyone intentionally."
I saw such obviously wrong statements being made that I just had to jump in. After a few posts, Rick Ross started deleting my messages, especially when I questioned his credentials and knowledge of A.A., and pointed out that he had the same number of degrees and certifications as I have == none. But I have at least attended lots of A.A. meetings, and have been through the 12-Step "treatment" mill.
And then I noticed that Rick Ross banned a poster named Barabara who was doing a good job of criticizing A.A.. And some of James G.'s posts are missing too.
That is not a debate. I don't know what you call it. Maybe the Russian version of "Pravda" ("truth").
That is not a fair and honest debate. I am an American, and I believe in Freedom of Speech. I believe in the Free Marketplace of Ideas, where you allow everybody to go to the public square and get up on their soap box and say their piece. And the crowd, in turn, is free to kibbitz and criticize and make rebuttals. It's both great entertainment and a good way to hash out the issues.
I do not and will not censor my critics, even when they call me stupid, heartless, and a sack of motherfuckers, which several have done.
Calinda wrote:
Orange....if you noticed Rick Ross deleted your posts, he did not ban you. IMO, only a coward bans a member who is standing up for himself You are systematically inculcating a group of people who will not submit to abuse and false accusations being hurled at them. The people you are enabling here are an abusive, debasing ad I'll mannered.
Calinda (not verified)
Sat, 07/21/2012 - 07:36
Permalink
Here is the link.
http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-rross_aa01.html
SandyB
Sat, 07/21/2012 - 09:35
Permalink
Rick Ross...
is a douche
Calinda (not verified)
Sat, 07/21/2012 - 11:25
Permalink
Are you relating.....lol.
Are you relating.....lol.
Calinda (not verified)
Sat, 07/21/2012 - 11:26
Permalink
Or identifying.....lol!!!
Or identifying.....lol!!!
Clara
Sat, 07/21/2012 - 13:01
Permalink
Well, Orange, that is why I
Well, Orange, that is why I stayed here. I heard things that were just so out of my experience that I had to hang around to find out why people would say things that were counter to our literature. I don't know if Rick Ross has ever been in AA and I have never seen his site. Anyone have a link?
Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.
JR Harris
Sat, 07/21/2012 - 13:18
Permalink
In legal terms, AA literature is called "de jure" meaning what
In legal terms, AA literature is called "de jure" meaning what is written. In actuality what you want to look at is the "de facto" actions of the members. While I understand that the usual AA loophole is,"it doesn't happen in my group" in reality it still happens in many groups and they are all highlighted on the orange-papers.org/forum , nadaytona.org , leavingaa.com and many others. You can not hide from the fact that there ar many rogue groups in Alcoholics Anonymous in a global perspective. What happens in your little AA world of El Paso,Texas or Myrtle Beach, South Carolina is not the same things that happen in places like Lewiston, Maine, Vermont or Seattle....
Read more about this global story involving Alcoholics Anonymous at: http://www.gmanetwork.com/news/story/75915/news/world/girl-kept-detailed...
"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.
Clara
Fri, 07/20/2012 - 20:18
Permalink
Well, Penny's and Gigi's don
Well, Penny's and Gigi's don't, so it isn't just a high school game.
Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.
Calinda (not verified)
Fri, 07/20/2012 - 20:49
Permalink
They are collecting evidence
They are collecting evidence at this time for the court case against Danny. They want to make sure he doesn't delete any of his posts. I am sure by morning this little act of control should be over.
becket
Fri, 07/20/2012 - 21:28
Permalink
What court case?? This is an
What court case?? This is an open forum. There's been noise made about threats from Clara and "Danny" but I think anyone would be hard-pressed to prove libel or actual threat. Do these people really want to clog up the courts with this shit when all those McDonald's and Walmart cases are pending??
“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian
Clara
Fri, 07/20/2012 - 22:06
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My threats turned out to have
My threats turned out to have been made by someone so far away from me, it was just noise from some lonely person behind a computer.
Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.
becket
Fri, 07/20/2012 - 22:46
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I believe it.
I believe it.
“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian
Calinda (not verified)
Sat, 07/21/2012 - 07:44
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Sorry becket, I should have
Sorry becket, I should have put a "lmao" after my comment. I was joking. This site has become a place where JR and his friends who all suffer from some social disorder or another, can control there fears by bombarding Orange with their pleas. Orange, will in turn then act out his biggest fear (that they will leave, if he doesn't acquiesce).
live_free_or_die
Sat, 07/21/2012 - 08:35
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Hey, Ranch Hand
What is it you are saying hear? (there. LMAOROTF!)
smiles.
Alcoholics Anonymous: MyNotGodHasItCovered®
http://www.expaa.org/
http://bereanresearch.com/
http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/
NOT AA:
Rational Recovery, SOS, HAMS
http://alcoholabusesolutions.com/
live_free_or_die
Fri, 07/20/2012 - 17:19
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"Even your little ducks know better."
Judge bucket is judging and opining again. jesus™.
Alcoholics Anonymous: MyNotGodHasItCovered®
http://www.expaa.org/
http://bereanresearch.com/
http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/
NOT AA:
Rational Recovery, SOS, HAMS
http://alcoholabusesolutions.com/
Conan
Fri, 07/20/2012 - 17:25
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No edit button
Means you can't change/delete your posts. A great idea I think.
Danny is currently "Rachel" - watch out folks, he's learned how to use a spell checker...lol
live_free_or_die
Fri, 07/20/2012 - 17:36
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changes, they are a-coming
.
Alcoholics Anonymous: MyNotGodHasItCovered®
http://www.expaa.org/
http://bereanresearch.com/
http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/
NOT AA:
Rational Recovery, SOS, HAMS
http://alcoholabusesolutions.com/
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