To The AA Members Who Frequent This Board

Gunthar2000's picture
Submitted by Gunthar2000 on Sun, 07/08/2012 - 13:49

Why do you come here?
If you know that this is an AA critical website, what is your purpose for being here?
I know that I come here to interact with like-minded people who have either left AA, or are in the process of leaving AA. It wasn't easy for me to leave AA with all of the suggestions that I would either wind up in jails, institutions, or dead. Interacting with people who have had the same experience as I have validates my experience, and helps me to erase years of learned helplessness and self doubt.
Why in the world would you want to interfere with the deprogramming process?

Comments

alkieanon's picture

alkieanon

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 05:21

Where?

msafrany

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 06:55

The trolls are here because they are currently struggling with the second stage of truth.

becket's picture

becket

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 11:19

Please give an example of "struggling".

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

Clara's picture

Clara

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 07:27

I came because there was an Orange piece that my sponsor wanted me to read. I got involved with the forum because of some informative posts. Then I was pretty overwhelmed by the experiences that people were relating. MIne wasn't like that that at all. Then I was surprised by how much misinformation was being shared. I didn't know if it is faulty interpretation, poor sponsor ship or what, but it sure was surprising. I imagine that I could go into any Methodist church and discover that my god isn't viewed the same by everyone in the congregation, so having a god of my understanding didn't seem odd. The misinformation about meds was interesting, too. AA doesn't care if you take meds and it is in the BB about how we would be remiss if we didn't avail ourselves tot hose professionals as needed. Bill W also thanked the medical community for its contributions to AA.

I have often said that I went to AA after putting down the drink because I wanted to KEEP the drink down and to find others that lived an abstinent life and to see how they did it. I met a lot of nice people that had reclaimed lives from situations that seemed pretty awful. I have that life today, one of bliss and love, and I have a lot of things that I wouldn't have otherwise.

I have also said here that I don't know for a fact that I wouldn't have been served just as well by some other progam such as SMART (but not MM or HAMS because abstinence was my goal) because I didn't check into those. When I did as the result of this board, I discovered those weren't available, anyway. I don't like the assumption because you ARE in AA or have a favorable impression of it, then you automatically believe this way or that. I am not for mandating, and I would sign Massive's petition if I could and if I thought it was a productive effort. I have also said that if I came to AA in EP first, I might not feel the same as I do about the program overall. I think I had the perfect storm with AA in MB. It was the right thing at the right time. But, even so, I don't subscribe to all of it and have elaborated about that here on OPF.

I think that AA can work for people. I think it won't work for others. I don't know anything that works 100% other than Fannigan's suggestion, and that is putting down the drink and keeping it down. I needed help with that part and understanding that there really could be a life without it that is abundant and perfect in its way.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

flannigan

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 07:30

Unfortunately if AA is a treatment for alcoholism, it is a failure. It does not work any better than no treatment in helping alcoholics overcome their addiction. And you are going to "save one person with the possibility of recovery" with a treatment that doesn't work? That makes no sense. Faith-healing has never been a valid or effective treatment of any disease.

alkieanon's picture

alkieanon

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 02:50

Fortunately, your opinion of AA as a treatment is a failure.

So we're still waiting for that 100% sure-fire treatment methodology. "Science may one day accomplish this, but it hasn't done so yet."

alkieanon's picture

alkieanon

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 02:50

So, no treatment is better than any treatment?

becket's picture

becket

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 11:21

What works as a treatment for alcoholism, flannigan, and how do you know? Because they say so? Because some people have been sober for a year or two and that's good enough? Because there's no religious component?

What works? How do you know? How can anyone gauge it from the outside of anecdotal experience?

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

becket's picture

becket

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 13:45

"Faith-healing has never been a valid or effective treatment of any disease."

How do you know?

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

Gunthar2000's picture

Gunthar2000

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 13:48

There is no evidence to support the claim that faith healing has ever been a valid or effective treatment of any disease.

AA is a religious cult dressed up to look like a treatment for alcoholism.

Gunthar2000

http://www.expaa.org/

becket's picture

becket

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 13:56

And where is the evidence to deny the claim that faith healing has ever been a valid or effective treatment of any disease?

Perhaps you have heard or read about the Placebo Effect?

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

Gunthar2000's picture

Gunthar2000

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 14:03

We don't need evidence to deny the claim. The claim that AA works was made by AA... It's up to AA to provide the evidence and prove that AA works. To this point AA has not proved it's effectiveness.

My personal experience was that AA's faith healing program made things much worse... not better.

AA is a religious cult dressed up to look like a treatment for alcoholism.

Gunthar2000

http://www.expaa.org/

becket's picture

becket

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 14:06

I got sober in AA. I say it works. Not for everyone, but for some. I just followed the steps and blew off what I considered to be extraneous bullshit. Are you going to tell me I'm not sober?

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

Gunthar2000's picture

Gunthar2000

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 14:15

I'm not going to tell you that you're not sober... I'm not going to suggest that you are on a dry drunk... I'm not going to suggest that you were never an alcoholic to begin with... That kind of gaslighting is reserved for died in the wool members of your AA cult. What I will tell you is that you have been indoctrinated into a religious cult that has harmed an enormous number of people. Coming into this forum and taunting people who have decided to leave the cult can't be helping you in any way. It is a sickness that you are having a diffiCULT time controlling. I'm sure that if you studied up a bit on SMART Recovery you could find a way to curb these behaviors and get on with your life. I'm sorry to see you working so hard to convince yourself that AA actually works. I guess that's your way of looking past all of the bullshit and trying to make something of it.

AA is a religious cult dressed up to look like a treatment for alcoholism.

Gunthar2000

http://www.expaa.org/

patti

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 14:04

Why all the parents who get locked up & go to jail when they rely on faith healing & praying to cure their ill children. Just google it Becket & you'll find evidence that denies faith healing is a valid or effective treatment for any disease. Becket any adult that does not take an ill child they are responsible for for treatment for a disease & instead relies on faith healing & prayer often ends up in prison. I'm not looking for you, you can google it yourself.

patti

becket's picture

becket

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 14:16

"Becket any adult that does not take an ill child they are responsible for for treatment for a disease & instead relies on faith healing & prayer often ends up in prison. "

How many four-year-olds have you ever seen seeking help for alcohol dependence in AA? Can we fucking stick to the subject here, patti? How many parents of teen alcohol abusers who have taken their children to AA in an effort to provide some help and discipline and structure, and perhaps an answer to that substance dependence, have been tried, convicted and sentenced to any jail term? If you consider that our judicial system tends to favor AA, I think you will find that the answer to my question is "slim to none".

If you believe AA is nothing but quackery and faith healing, then go on about your business. Your mind is clearly made up and no one is going to try to convince you otherwise. But as a presence here on this board, and one with an arguably broader mind than yours, I will continue to do my part to shoot down this kind of bullshit when it appears, and it appears regularly within your over-generalized, over-dramatized posts.

I have often mentioned and given links to the placebo effect on this board. If you're interested, go hunt them down and educate yourself. If you're not interested, color me surprised.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

flannigan

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 07:27

You are correct. What was I thinking? Your facts concerning AA's success as a treatment for alcoholism are beyond question. Your facts convinced me as to my error. Thanks for setting me straight.

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