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Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Sun, 07/08/2012 - 14:02

Comments

DeConstructor's picture

DeConstructor

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 14:05

how about we start with the fact that they kill people through the training of powerlessness which can and does harm people, as was well documented in the Brandsma and Ditman studies..........

First-Things-First (not verified)

Mon, 09/03/2012 - 04:13

Linton's picture

Linton

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 14:21

FTF. I did a post on the Forum about " green eyes ". I'm betting yours are multi-coloured? ( uk spelling).

Linton

First-Things-First (not verified)

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 22:44

JR Harris's picture

JR Harris

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 17:38

Obviously you are part of the "Dumbing of America" and feeling the powerlessness of the cult of Alcoholics Anonymous. Good Job, keep up the good work! Don't forget to go to those meetings that have you leave your brain at the front door!

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

DeConstructor's picture

DeConstructor

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 14:23

of their findings from kens site.

http://www.morerevealed.com/library/resist/r_chap_2.htm

alkieanon's picture

alkieanon

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 20:21

A possible explanation, but still fails to support the original claim.

NoAAUK's picture

NoAAUK

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 15:45

Where can you find any official documemt regarding your lying scaremongering predator death cult.

Weve all lost friends in your satanic cult and find you people offensive to say the least

......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11

NoAAUK's picture

NoAAUK

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 16:46

"Where can I find an official document of that?

Where can I find an official document that states that God removes shortcomings if you do step 7 or that shows that nothing wil so much ensure immunity from drinking as intensive work with other alocholics BB 4th Ed P89

......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11

Orange's picture

Orange

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 17:28

http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-effectiveness.html#Brandsma

http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-effectiveness.html#Vaillant

http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-effectiveness.html#Ditman

http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-effectiveness.html#Walsh

And even Bill Wilson's own statements:
http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-effectiveness.html#Bob_memorial

JR Harris's picture

JR Harris

Wed, 07/11/2012 - 06:31

I believe that First-Things-First was talked too by his Sponsor or another grand wizard of the Alcoholics Anonymous faith and told to knock it off. It may have even reached its AA Intergroup level. It is very doubtful that it reached the Interchurch level on 475 Riverside Drive in New York and appears he was handled by mid-level managers of the cult.

Source: "First Thing First" deleted all of its posts" - http://orange-papers.org/forum/node/1893

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

Gunthar2000's picture

Gunthar2000

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 14:11

AA tries to dodge this fact by proclaiming the twelve steps to be "spiritual."

This is a single lie out of many.

AA is a religious cult dressed up to look like a treatment for alcoholism.

Gunthar2000

http://www.expaa.org/

First-Things-First (not verified)

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 22:44

Gunthar2000's picture

Gunthar2000

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 17:35

are the same thing.

AA is a religious cult dressed up to look like a treatment for alcoholism.

Gunthar2000

http://www.expaa.org/

Pennywise's picture

Pennywise

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 17:37

I've never had any bible thumpers try to shove the religion thing down in the meetings.

The Big Book IS a bible.

"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid."

Pennywise's picture

Pennywise

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 17:39

See, Bill Wilson was not trying to push Christiantiy; he was trying to REPLACE Christianity.

"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid."

NoAAUK's picture

NoAAUK

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 15:50

"But as I understand it, it's the greater power than your self and reaching a peaceful spirituality. That's what I got out of it anyway"

Same old stepper BS

What about the suicides and sexual predation?

Why can't God miracle you cult zombies to be able to drink normaly, why only stop? Doesn't the stepper God like people enjoying themselves. Does the stepper God just want people to sit around in those weird meetings spoupting the same old crap over and over again like you?

Strange God, this stepper God.

......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11

becket's picture

becket

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 17:55

"What about the suicides and sexual predation?"

Suicides and sexual predation are not alcoholism or alcohol dependence or flirting with booze or whatever you choose to call it. AA is not designed to address suicides or sexual predation. If you believe it is designed for nothing, fine, but don't call on these hackneyed old warhorses to sell your point. If AA is designed for nothing, then suicides and sexual predation are included under that umbrella.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

NoAAUK's picture

NoAAUK

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 16:51

"But as I understand it, it's the greater power than your self and reaching a peaceful spirituality"

So why does it directly mention GOD in four of the steps and HIM in another step?

And when Doctor Bob battered his daughter with a paddle, is that AA's version of peaceful spiritualliy.....or becket telling us to 'fuck off'?

......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11

patti

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 18:07

FTF,
why aren't you sober? Its you & your greater power team & your peaceful spirituality & why doesn't your dream team keep you sober?

patti

DeConstructor's picture

DeConstructor

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 14:14

they found AA indoctrinated people fell harder if they had a drink.

"The AA group showed a significantly greater number of episodes of binge drinking at the 6 month follow-up period than any other group including the untreated control group"

Unlike many studies done by AA, such as Project MATCH, these studies used control groups and peer reviewed statistical collection methods.

http://hamsnetwork.org/effective.pdf

Linton's picture

Linton

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 14:17

I'm not an addict and the steps screwed me up. It was great when I first started Al-Anon and realised that I wasn't to blame for someone else's addictive behaviour. I took it all way too personally, somehow thought I was responsible. Now had I spoke to a group about this aspect I reckon I would've got better quite quickly. It was when I started " working the steps " that my real problems started. I started with a job, mortgage, family, car and ended up as an unemployed dreamer waiting on my " Higher Power " to instruct me on my next move. I've more amends to make post 12 Step than I had when I started it.

Linton

First-Things-First (not verified)

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 22:44

JR Harris's picture

JR Harris

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 18:23

I am well versed in the scriptures of all three cults and thanks to the Crab Soup lady in El Paso Texas, I am getting very good at Scientology scripture and they are all the same.

"Look for the similarities, not the differences!"

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

NoAAUK's picture

NoAAUK

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 15:52

"And I definitely can't speak from an Al-Anon stand point."

Why not, its all the same stepper cult BS

......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11

JR Harris's picture

JR Harris

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 14:24

The 12 Steps of Alcoholics Anonymous popularized by the spiritualist and occultist Bill Wilson is not a "solution" it is a "one day at a time" reprieve for people who fall for the dogma of the cult of Alcoholics Anonymous patterned after the the cultist Frank Buchman and the Oxford Group that was kicked out of most respectable churches. The scripture of Bill Wilson dictates that Alcoholics Anonymous is not a "solution", please go back to AA bible school.

As a side note the slogan "One Day at a Time" is proudly displayed at the Stepping Stones compound of Bill Wilson in Westchester County, New York.

See if you can find it: http://www.steppingstones.org/tours.html

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

First-Things-First (not verified)

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 22:45

JR Harris's picture

JR Harris

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 18:30

You have been taught well in the sly suggestions of the AA faith, might I suggest you try easier prospects that haven't been hardened to these tactics?

For more on the tactic you are using see - Recruiting mind games of Alcoholics Anonymous - http://orange-papers.org/orange-recruit.html

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

NoAAUK's picture

NoAAUK

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 15:56

"I feel you're so full of negativity. Thank you."

What could possibly be more negative than stepper cult BS.

Powerless over a dead plant that has gone past the rotting stage.......and God is going to work miracles for you as long as you go to those creepy meetings and loath yourself.......and if you leave its jails institutions or .........yes wait for it ........DEATH

How much more negativity do you want than steppism

......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11

becket's picture

becket

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 17:58

Such a skewed view. Tsk.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

live_free_or_die's picture

live_free_or_die

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 05:54

Tell a lie enough times and it becomes truth, right judge feckit? LOL.

Alcoholics Anonymous: MyNotGodHasItCovered®
http://www.expaa.org/
http://bereanresearch.com/
http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/
NOT AA:
Rational Recovery, SOS, HAMS
http://alcoholabusesolutions.com/

becket's picture

becket

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 19:05

That door swings at least two ways, live_fetid.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

becket's picture

becket

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 17:57

"The 12 Steps are not a solution, rephrase your question"

In the words of my beloved patti, what do you think you are JR Harris, you're not the boss of me & you don't call all the shots here & you are nothing but a control freak & nobody wants you here & & & & & & & &

Is that an order?

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

patti

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 18:12

Becket,
being advised you are a control freak sure struck a nerve with you. Lol. I just know, just know, just know you've been told that about yourself a lot!

patti

live_free_or_die's picture

live_free_or_die

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 18:18

That would be the first time I have heard of a judge being a control freak.

Alcoholics Anonymous: MyNotGodHasItCovered®
http://www.expaa.org/
http://bereanresearch.com/
http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/
NOT AA:
Rational Recovery, SOS, HAMS
http://alcoholabusesolutions.com/

becket's picture

becket

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 19:14

Dream on, sweeties.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

live_free_or_die's picture

live_free_or_die

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 14:24

Step 2. Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity

Alcoholics Anonymous: MyNotGodHasItCovered®
http://www.expaa.org/
http://bereanresearch.com/
http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/
NOT AA:
Rational Recovery, SOS, HAMS
http://alcoholabusesolutions.com/

First-Things-First (not verified)

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 22:45

JR Harris's picture

JR Harris

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 17:45

Come on you can do better than that! Why not the "it works if you work it!" slogan!

P.S. Scientology also "works it you work it" if it doesn't kill you, just like the cult of Alcoholics Anonymous!

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

live_free_or_die's picture

live_free_or_die

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 18:13

I can't get ANY steppers to answer it either. So you did admit that you were crazy. Ok.

Are you now sane? Did the 12 steps make you sane after working them?

btw, I had no difficulties with the steps. Thank you for answering the questions no stepper will answer.

Alcoholics Anonymous: MyNotGodHasItCovered®
http://www.expaa.org/
http://bereanresearch.com/
http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/
NOT AA:
Rational Recovery, SOS, HAMS
http://alcoholabusesolutions.com/

First-Things-First (not verified)

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 22:45

NoAAUK's picture

NoAAUK

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 16:58

"I was insane, now I'm sane".

Did God make you sane and did God also remove your shortcomings?

......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11

NoAAUK's picture

NoAAUK

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 16:01

"You either buy into it or you dont"

Or you either get coerced into it or you don't

Or you get scared into it or you dont.

What exactly are you buying into, 1930's cult BS?

......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11

Persephone In Exile's picture

Persephone In Exile

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 14:25

Well, the first few steps alone did it for me. I'm not powerless, I wasn't particularly interested in turning my will over to a power greater than myself, and much preferred to restore myself to sanity. That was all possible for me without a higher power, and certainly without the continuation of this instant gratification behavior. Jumping on my every thought and obsessing on it to the point of having to call several people and share it all at a meeting really didn't interest me.

Apologies for not going more into detail there. Trying to keep these posts short.

http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/

First-Things-First (not verified)

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 22:46

JR Harris's picture

JR Harris

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 17:53

"When you discover a prospect for Alcoholics Anonymous, find out all you can about him. " BB p.90, Working With Others

Don't you have any jails or prisons to ply your deception on? The Alcoholics Anonymous Prospect Hunting Instructions - Direct from the Interchurch Center in New York http://orange-papers.org/forum/node/1629

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

NoAAUK's picture

NoAAUK

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 16:06

"How much sobriety time do you have?"

How much tme "problem drinking" did you actually do?

You cult zombies are always boasting about how long you have been in the stepper cults parroting cult BS,

But how long were you actually PROBLEM drinking? The amout of time some of you morons boast about being in the stepper cults doesn't actually leave much time for drinking let alone problem drinking

......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11

becket's picture

becket

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 19:07

Experience and living sober count for something.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

Pennywise's picture

Pennywise

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 14:27

http://www.reverbnation.com/arnoldzedville

"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid."

First-Things-First (not verified)

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 22:46

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