To Sir (FTF) With Love

Today’s intercourse with First Things First (FTF) was both revealing while also providing great entertainment value. FTF reminded me of akirk of times past here on the OP Forum.

First, FTF tells us that he has been in and out of the rooms for years. Yet in the same sentence he tells us that he has never seen any of the horror stories that are discussed here on the Forum, or the horror stories in the letters Orange receives. How can he say with any certainty that these horrific actions have not occurred if he is not in the roomz of AA? He can’t!

Second, right off the bat he admits that AA/12 steps have not worked for him. We all know that the AA/12 steps program has relapses built into the program. So in a sense FTF has worked the AA/12 steps program in that he has successfully relapsed. Not once folks, but numerous times, by his own admission.

Third, FTF tells us that AA/12 steps is a self-help program that. Ok, so god is not involved in the AA/12 step program? I thought god was involved somewhere. I think god is mentioned throughout the 12 steps. I could be wrong.

Fourth, FTF tells us that yes, there are bad AA meetings, and the old-timers know to avoid them? So there are bad meetings FTF? Why does FTF say there are bad meetings? Bad how?

Fifth, FTF shares a huge insight with the OP Forum. The key feature to AA to AA is a “desire to quit drinking”. What about admitting that one is powerless? Sounds like a key to me. What about admitting that you are insane? Another big key, that. And, you must turn your life over to god? BIG KEY! HUGE KEY!

Sixth, FTF plays the “what was your part” card. Yep. This self-help program gets a “get off the hook” card by almost every AA member, trying to make the argument that shit happens in the real world. Pull up your bootstraps and work the program. FTF drips with compassion for the suffering drunk.

Seventh, the FTF tells us to not forget that the people in the roomz, the old-timers, the big bills and the little bills, these people are/were all drunks. These people in the roomz are not professionals or doctors or therapists. Don’t forget that he says! Sounds like a warning to me. FTF is one hell of a marketer.

Eight, FTF then shares his frustration with us; FTF can’t understand how these people can cry about how they were treated in AA when they are the ones that made a bad judgment call. Perhaps making the decision to attend AA/12 steps was a bad judgment call?

Nine, FTF tells us that Bill W was an asshole. Plain & simple. Bill W was a self-centered, manipulative adulterer that lied continuously. Ok, we all agree on that one. Oh, FTF tells us not to judge a book by its cover. LOL!

Ten, FTF reminds us that AA is a self-help program and then tells that at the heart of the thing, the intent is spiritual, not religious. FTF tells us that bonding with other drunks and the spiritual communing (with god) is what provides mental relief and release in order to combat “alcoholism”? So other drunks and god help with the AA self-help program of combating drinking. What happened to the heart being “a desire to quit drinking” How many hearts are there?

Eleven, FTF then plays one the old standbys as to why AA/12 steps has such a low success rate (3-5%). If AA didn’t work for you, then you didn’t really work the program. It is not the fault of the program, it is YOU.

Twelve, FTF tells us that AA people come and go. He WANTS us to believe him. AA’ers COME AND GO. Hell, each AA meeting seems to have a darned revolving door FTF tells us. Then, in the very next sentence, FTF tells us that AA does work. WTF! Yes, AA does work, for 3-5% of the substance abuse population.

So, if you want what FTF has…………………..

Comments

JR Harris's picture

The 12 Steps of the Alcoholics Anonymous Recruiter are very well written and does identify the tactics rather well. Good job!

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

I have a tendency to believe what people say on the forum even though much of it is untrue.
Still I try on the chance that they are sincere or they may read something that rings true.
As for your post, I agree, the exchange was entertaining.
Plus, we did get to talk about alternatives, and were visited by orange.

live_free_or_die's picture

Conquering Deception by Jef Nance, CFE

CFE=Certified Fraud Examiner

Alcoholics Anonymous: MyNotGodHasItCovered®
http://www.expaa.org/
http://bereanresearch.com/
http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/
NOT AA:
Rational Recovery, SOS, HAMS
http://alcoholabusesolutions.com/

causeandeffect's picture

What struck me about his post was that he said:

"And all of these people were/are drunks. Don't forget that! They're not necessarily spiritual leaders, or counselors, or doctors, ad infinitum. Use some common sense when divulging to or trusting a drunk. FOR PETE'S SAKE! I don't understand how people cry after they themselves made a bad judgement call."

Then he said:

"At the heart of this thing is the intent of a spiritual experience (not religious), bonding with other drunks for sharing, and using these two sovereignties as a means of mental relief and release in order combat alcoholism. "

So, in order to achieve and maintain sobriety you have to share detailed personal information with other drunks, but when it all goes horribly wrong after someone trusts an AA guru, it's not the fault of the program that told people to share their sensitive information, it's always the fault of the victim.

Just the usual blame, blame, blame the victim, never ever look at the culprit.

Troll free AA critical forum
http://www.expaa.org/

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it." ~ Neil deGrasse Tyson

becket's picture

Victim? Anyone who is attending AA meetings of his own free will is not a victim of anything. All this "blame the victim" nonsense is the convenient default you fall back on when no other argument seems to fit. How is he blaming "the victim" when there is no "victim"?

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

Linton's picture

" like "

Linton

Conan's picture

Danny is currently "Rachel" - watch out folks, he's learned how to use a spell checker...lol

live_free_or_die's picture

That is weird Conan. Thanks for posting that . Its a great song (played it twice). Goose bumbs all over. I will put this song on my nanopod.

Music can be so damn inspirational, and good for the soul (although I don't have a soul being atheist).

Oh, and the movie was great to, Sir Sidney Poitier is one of my favorite actors.
http://www.amazon.com/To-Sir-With-Love/dp/B003PWWY90

Alcoholics Anonymous: MyNotGodHasItCovered®
http://www.expaa.org/
http://bereanresearch.com/
http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/
NOT AA:
Rational Recovery, SOS, HAMS
http://alcoholabusesolutions.com/

JR Harris's picture

The Problem with Alcoholics Anonymous Funeral Crashers - the lowest of lows - http://orange-papers.org/forum/node/1354

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

Gunthar2000's picture

How can you say that it works?

AA is a religious cult dressed up to look like a treatment for alcoholism.

Gunthar2000

http://www.expaa.org/

live_free_or_die's picture

are trying to convince people to go to for the rest of their lives?

Alcoholics Anonymous: MyNotGodHasItCovered®
http://www.expaa.org/
http://bereanresearch.com/
http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/
NOT AA:
Rational Recovery, SOS, HAMS
http://alcoholabusesolutions.com/

Gunthar2000's picture

How can you say it works?

AA is a religious cult dressed up to look like a treatment for alcoholism.

Gunthar2000

http://www.expaa.org/

JR Harris's picture

Out of that 3-5% many lie about their success rate so they aren't ostracized by the cult and some end up dead and as martyrs for the cult. it's only common sense. Don't be fooled by slogans and propaganda from oldtimers.

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

Once again, AA does not work to help alcoholics overcome their addiction any better than no treatment. The "key" to long-term sobriety is not to drink alcohol for a long time. Why do you go on and on about what AA is or isn't? It does not matter. If you don't drink, you have the "solution".

Linton's picture

FTF. I'm not sure if this will help, but this video woke me up. It's in no way 12 step or alcohol related, but it hit me like a sledgehammer and what James Randi says at 7m57s is very profound. It led me to search for this site. I also think Orange could use this in the " Papers".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9w7jHYriFo

Linton

live_free_or_die's picture

FTF said: "I do believe it arouse just from those needs." I don't think AA has ever been aroused, although from what I hear, Bill W was constantly aroused.

FTF - I think you meant to say that, iyo, AA arose to help with a drunk's cravings for alcohol. Am I right?

Anyway FTF, since you are here on the OPF ostensibly to find truth, is it possible, I mean, answer this question with rigourus honesty, Is it possible that Bill W actually was in dire straits financially and was desparate to find a way to make some mula, cash, dinero, coin?

I mean, let's be logical here. Bill W was 40 years old in 1935 when he went to Ohio seeking Henrietta Seiberling and was hooked up with Dr. Bob (the ass doctor). Bill W was 44 yrs old when he stole the Big Book copyright. In 1939 Bill W was broke and had never held a real job longer than what, a month at the most?
Bill and Lois W had been mooching off friends and riding around the country side on a motorcycle for chrissakes, taking menial day to day jobs to buy Top Ramen noodle soups for dinner man! Two years without a home of their own dude!

Is it at all possible, FTF, that AA arose out of an attemp by a desparate and broke Bill W to make some money?

After all, Bill W did die a multi-millionaire. Thanks.

Alcoholics Anonymous: MyNotGodHasItCovered®
http://www.expaa.org/
http://bereanresearch.com/
http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/
NOT AA:
Rational Recovery, SOS, HAMS
http://alcoholabusesolutions.com/

live_free_or_die's picture

I don't disagree with anything you said above.

However, I refrain from commenting on your self-diagnosis re: your neurosis until a later time.

Alcoholics Anonymous: MyNotGodHasItCovered®
http://www.expaa.org/
http://bereanresearch.com/
http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/
NOT AA:
Rational Recovery, SOS, HAMS
http://alcoholabusesolutions.com/