.

AA is not a "self-help" program. Please read the literature which is recited before each meeting. And no, AA does not work to help alcoholics overcome their addiction any better than no treatment. The ONLY way to stop drinking is to stop drinking. God, steps, HP, meetings, sponsors, Big Book, etc. have nothing to do with it. And what does a "spiritual experience" (whatever that is supposed to mean) have to do with stopping drinking? I don't hate AA as you seem to think. AA is quackery, a fraud, a hoax. It should be exposed as the failure it is and always has been. AA is a religious organization masquerading as a treatment modality for alcoholism.

You actually don't see that AA is a religious organization? Have you read the steps? Do you pray at meetings? Do people talk about God and what He is doing for them? And, yes, AA is a cult, a religious cult pretending to be a treatment for alcoholism. And no, a cult does not have to have a living leader to be a cult. (i.e. Scientology)

If you believe that a doorknob can help keep you sober, I think OPF is the wrong forum for you. I am glad that you are posting here but don't expect many on OPF to agree with the doorknob absurdity. I don't actually believe that you believe it, but.....

Little harm is being done by the Orange site to the recovery of alcoholics. Although this site is loaded with cynicism, vitriol, personal bias and mistruths (mandatory 12-Step program participation, AA doesn't work, Bill was an asshole), the fact remains that alcoholism is a compulsive disorder that is extremely difficult to overcome without the constant support of others who understand the disease and come together to share the "kinship of common suffering." There is something to be said for programs like Smart Recovery and SOS but their support groups, when they exist at all, are not widely available and the best testimony for the success of AA is the fact that it's available widely in the U.S. and almost every country in the world. It's recommended by alcohol treatment professionals for that very reason and, yes, Orange, it is extremely difficult to quit and stay quit without these "self-help group" meetings. Picture the things soldiers are able to do in the field of battle that they could never do alone. There is safety in numbers. And strength. As for AA Nazis and Cultism in AA, get a grip. The 12 Steps are only suggestions and when I attend a meeting where people sharing get heavily into the supposed "musts" of the program (12 Stepping, the God problem, etc.) I simply share on the day's topic and make clear to the group that I do not believe in an active and caring God and don't work the steps. This usually leads to others in the room sharing similar views. We don't do this to actively complain or criticize but to make clear that nothing is required or mandatory about AA except a desire to stop drinking. For those of you who have felt oppressed or scolded in an AA meeting, my advice is simple..find another meeting. You always learn something in any AA meeting, even if it's just that you never want to go to that particular meeting again. And stand up for yourself and state your disbelief in God or cultism or 12-stepping or whatever irritates you about your AA group. You're not a wimp, you have no need to accept things you don't agree with. I live in Philadelphia and attend (among many other meetings) an agnostic meeting in which we do not read How It Works or use the word "God" when starting the serenity prayer. You can start one of your own with the full sanctioning of the AA World Organization. Comparing AA to a cult like Scientology is just so much "must-erbation." See you in the rooms, ~Stew

That is OK, most of us were active Bill Wilson chanters at one time but "more will be revealed" when you start to pull back the covers of the Alcoholics Anonymous confession cult. For a very good explanation of what you will be feeling once you get the "white light" of truth on the cult of Alcoholics Anonymous, see:

"A short story" published by Linton - http://orange-papers.org/forum/node/1857

There you go again with words like cult, chanters, and confession. No white light is necessary. Tradition 10 is about political controversy and is not an instruction to not discuss AA or to speak freely in its defense. Does the fact that it's available to millions of alcoholics make it a cult or a helpful solution?
See you in the rooms where we can speak freely among other recovering alcoholics.
~Stew

Stew-
Just one problem- AA doesn't work any better than no treatment in helping alcoholics overcome their addiction.

Alcohol is widely available worldwide, but only a small percentage of the population is alcoholic. AA is also available worldwide, and only a small percentage of doorknob worshippers claim it helps. What really works is an individual seeking the most appropriate therapy for him/her, whatever they feel helps is fine by me. Personally I don't believe aa helped me at all, other than realizing things could always be worse...

Do you know what % of adult (over 18) population would be considered "alcoholic"? Just wondering.

You are right. AA is an "acceptable solution to alcohol recovery". What was I thinking? Well, you convinced me. Carry on.

No, what I said was that no treatment has the same results as any treatment (including AA).

If one wants to stop drinking, what works best is to stop drinking. If one doesn't stop drinking, then no "program" can possibly work. BTW- do you miss Maryland steamed crabs and crab cakes? I know the answer to that one.

I will have to try JO seasoning. But better than Old Bay??? And I am happy for your sobriety and glad you enjoy participation in AA. Whether one drinks a little, a lot, or not at all is not really that important to me. The world is a big enough place for all of us.

Flanagan, aasux, avogadno, you all are right. Dead on. We meet because it helps us to stay sober, we pray because it unites us and makes us feel we have a common bond beyond ourselves, some of us have a lot of stored up guilt and have done some really harmful things to others, and some of us find that working a totally voluntary 12 Step program helps them to put some of that guilt behind them. I think almost all true alcoholics feel some shame and remorse as a result of their uncontrollable drinking, their isolated lifestyle and their self-centered thinking, and I see people in the rooms become better people over time and experience joy and gratitude for this recovery process. Emotionally, physically, and even dare I say spiritually. Millions of people have been helped by A.A. but I guess I can't prove that to you, anymore than the Catholic church can prove that it gets its followers to a heavenly afterlife (by conducting controlled exit polls.) We're a nation of addicts and we struggle to rise above our problems with alcohol, drugs, obesity, gambling, morality, and that pesky God question. I went through three rehabs, relapsing by intent (meaning I never intended to quit to begin with for more than a small period of time.) My fourth rehab has worked because I finally WANTED to quit drinking for the rest of my life. I went to 367 meetings in 365 days for support and companionship and, after 15 years of trying, I finally got one complete year of freedom from alcohol. If you want me to prove how I did it and why it works and continues to work, send me $500 in cash (plus shipping and handling) and I'll send you the cloak, the candles, the secret handshake and a decoder ring.

Thanks to Clara for my exit line... my comments on OPF represent my views only and do not represent those of AA. ~Stew

Congrats on your 1 year freedom from alcohol. Wishing you many more (as many as you want). Surprising what humans can do when they really WANT to do something. You deserve much credit, in fact, all the credit for your sobriety. I'll pass on the request for $500 (plus S&H) for the cloak, candles, secret handshake, and decoder ring. You don't need "to prove" anything to me or anybody else. I'm glad you found what you wanted in AA and hope your experience there will continue to be positive. Again, congrats on your sobriety, you did it yourself.