Rainbow here!

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Submitted by rainbow on Wed, 06/27/2012 - 23:30

Forums:

Hi everybody! I QUIT the 12stomp for good on Mothers Day of this year. I'd been in & out of that self-defeating, soul-killing, negative cult on & off for 23 years. I began really questioning the whole dis-organization about 2 years ago. When I found the Orange Papers, I knew I had not been wrong in my feelings about the CULT. Then I found blamethenile videos, morerevealed, leavingaa, massive's radio show....and the rest is history. I will never set foot into another meeting again. Taking back my power has brought me REAL happiness, joy & FREEDOM. THANK YOU ALL. Glad to be here. Peace :)

patti

Sat, 06/30/2012 - 22:10

Nothing wrong with getting angry @ lying & brain washed stalkers who are stalking you on this forum. That is a healthy & sane reaction NoAAUK. Hypocrites always make people angry. Hypocrites are very annoying & obnoxious. So they make people angry. No biggie. Manipulative cults make people angry also. And people want manipulative & insane cults to stop harming & damaging the downtrodden & desperate addict. Again nothing wrong with that. Its no biggie to get angry @ situations & people who behave reprehensible such as the AA cult & the hypocrite & stalker members. No biggie.

patti

becket's picture

becket

Sat, 06/30/2012 - 16:50

"we have all been in the stepper cults and been told NOT to get jobs and NOT to take meds, I was told prescribed anxiety medication was 'dry booze' by some stepper idiot who had NEVER worked let alone been a doctor.

Stepper cults in reality keep you out of society (the normies or not one of us) thats what the 90 in 90 is all about."

This is outrageous paranoia at every turn. Have you no brain, no mind, no instinct, no gut feeling, no intuition? If so, why didn't you use them?

Anyone in AA who tells you not to get a job, not to take your medications or any of that other nonsense is full of shit. If you can't sense that then you have amputated your own rudder. It's no one's fault for your believing this crap but yours.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

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NoAAUK

Sun, 07/01/2012 - 02:56

"Have you no brain, no mind, no instinct, no gut feeling, no intuition?"

Cults are designed for mind control, you know that when you went about lying and trying to scare newcomers yourself.

I never fell for it when I ever went back to the cult during the last 30 years. i never stayed more than a week, when i returned, you could see the gurus were totally cuckoo like you and Clara. When I was younger and afraid of dying I was vulnerable and an easy victim, the kind Clara doubtless looks out for when she is being a greeter or whatever she calls it at her cult indocrtination session

......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11

becket's picture

becket

Sat, 06/30/2012 - 21:12

"Cults are designed for mind control, you know that when you went about lying and trying to scare newcomers yourself."

You presumptuous ass. I never did any such thing. I have never believed that what works for me necessarily must work for everyone. I never scared newcomers, nor did I ever shove any dogma down their throats. For the years that I attended meetings, I was in it for me, not for them, not for "the group" or "the cult".

This is not an either/or situation. And I will stop right here, because you are too fucking dense and stubborn to consider anything in between shooting Bill Wilson and blowing him.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

NoAAUK's picture

NoAAUK

Sun, 07/01/2012 - 03:02

"You presumptuous ass. I never did any such thing"

So you never did step 12 cult recruitment in the brain washed belief that you were saving your own skin?

You don't come across as a person without shortcomings, so I think it is safe to assume you didn't do step 7 either, or it just didn't work.......like it doesn't

Did you try step 2? Well if you did it didn't work either, no power greater or otherwise than you has restored your sanity. LOL

So did you do any of the steps, admitted you were powerless or something?

......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11

becket's picture

becket

Sat, 06/30/2012 - 21:27

*

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

becket's picture

becket

Sat, 06/30/2012 - 21:22

*

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

NoAAUK's picture

NoAAUK

Sat, 06/30/2012 - 17:12

"Anyone in AA who tells you not to get a job, not to take your medications or any of that other nonsense is full of shit."

Thats exactly what we are saying AA IS full of shit, you are not doing very good 12th step recruitment at the moment are you, shouldn't you be claiming that God talks to you like Clara does or some other nonsense?

......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11

becket's picture

becket

Sat, 06/30/2012 - 21:18

Are you the sickly, pathetic spawn of JR Harris? What would make you claim any of the shit you put all your stock in? Where's your video of me scaring newcomers and 12th stepping people into coming to meetings? What's that you say? Oh, I get it. It's all in your head. Who put it there? You did, with no proof, nothing tangible to hang your pitiful opinion on.

"shouldn't you be claiming that God talks to you like Clara does or some other nonsense?"

Shouldn't you just shut the holy fuck up? Does that sound like carrying the message to you?

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

steve cochrane's picture

steve cochrane

Sat, 06/30/2012 - 22:07

I ask you to stop. There is no message. Nothing coming from on high. Wait ,wait and wait some more. If you perceive something different and can communicate that so clearly that I will get it. Then please bring it. You are what I have been waiting for all of my life. Again there is NO message. Look around you,bring your hand to your face,wiggle your fingers. Don't worry ,no one will see you. Just do it. Thats it Becket there is nothing more. Do the same when you are at the supermarket buying groceries. Put your hand up to your face. Wiggle 'em. The mirror to your own face girl. It does not fit anywhere else. Your beautiful reflection. Peace

becket's picture

becket

Sat, 06/30/2012 - 22:13

You're stone deaf, baby, deaf and blind.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

steve cochrane's picture

steve cochrane

Sun, 07/01/2012 - 00:55

will you help me?

steve cochrane's picture

steve cochrane

Sun, 07/01/2012 - 00:57

can recommend someone.

becket's picture

becket

Sun, 07/01/2012 - 01:58

I can't help a cynic.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

NoAAUK's picture

NoAAUK

Sun, 07/01/2012 - 11:40

"Look around you,bring your hand to your face,wiggle your fingers"

Did you do it? Just curious

......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11

NoAAUK's picture

NoAAUK

Sun, 07/01/2012 - 03:06

"Are you the sickly, pathetic spawn of JR Harris? What would make you claim any of the shit you put all your stock in? Where's your video of me scaring newcomers and 12th stepping people into coming to meetings? What's that you say? Oh, I get it. It's all in your head. Who put it there? You did, with no proof, nothing tangible to hang your pitiful opinion on."

So its safe we can assume that you didn't do step 12 then?

......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11

NoAAUK's picture

NoAAUK

Sun, 07/01/2012 - 03:10

"Shouldn't you just shut the holy fuck up? Does that sound like carrying the message to you?"

No.....don't sound much like you sought much through prayer and meditation to improve your consious contact with God as you understood him either.

You are not really a stepper, so why do you keep telling us Anti AA folk to 'fuck off' all the time?

......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11

becket's picture

becket

Sat, 06/30/2012 - 22:28

Yeah, NoAAUK, you'd like everyone to believe that nobody in AA wants anyone to get back into society as functioning, sober individuals with minds and ideas and hopes and goals. You're selling the shit that AA hates it when someone improves and leaves. You want people to believe they would prefer to lock the doors behind everyone who enters a meeting and then drop them through the floor to AA hell, where they sit and rot while crying about their resentments.

Everyone in AA is a goddamn liar in the first degree, according to NoAAUK - not just some, but all, past, present and future.

Wait a minute: that means you and patti and JR Harris and avogadno and Persephone are nothing but goddamn liars. Hm. Could you also be recruiting, prospect hunting, pitching for the other side, so to speak?

The 90 in 90 is about NOTHING. It is not a part of the program of Alcoholics Anonymous. It is a design for compliance invented by the treatment industry. You find me a 90 in 90 quote in the Big Book. I'll wait.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

NoAAUK's picture

NoAAUK

Sun, 07/01/2012 - 02:10

"You're selling the shit that AA hates it when someone improves and leaves."

YES!!!!!

......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11

becket's picture

becket

Sun, 07/01/2012 - 02:46

You're wrong, dollface. The thing I have trouble understanding is the people who don't truly leave AA. Instead you are all compelled to talk about it, joke about it, play "ain't it awful" over it, share your drunkalogues with each other (don't try to deny it, it's all over this board), try to incriminate and denigrate people who don't share your opinions.

Just walk away. You don't owe the other guy anything. You owe yourself a better life if AA was contaminating it. Do you really think libeling people and fabricating "truths" to enhance your viewpoints is getting you somewhere?

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

NoAAUK's picture

NoAAUK

Sun, 07/01/2012 - 03:18

"to enhance your viewpoints is getting you somewhere?"

Ive allready gone, its not about me..........its about the bemused and vulnerable, newly free from alcohol and/or drugs, people who are being preyed upon by the lying scaremongering stepper cults for whatever self serving predatory reasons its individual self serving and self obsessed members are using the cult for. Be that control of people, brain washed belief that in doing so they are saving their own skin, or just plain old sex

......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11

NoAAUK's picture

NoAAUK

Sun, 07/01/2012 - 03:19

why do you call me dollface?

I don't follow that.....is it something American?

......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11

becket's picture

becket

Sun, 07/01/2012 - 03:21

Because it's something a 60-year-old American broad would say.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

NoAAUK's picture

NoAAUK

Sun, 07/01/2012 - 09:17

We say somebody has 'a face like a slapped arse' a bit like Bill Wilson's

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HwIrecwfTy4&feature=related

see what I mean that is a face like a slapped arse. Whats a doll face like?

......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11

becket's picture

becket

Sun, 07/01/2012 - 03:20

Are you going to try to save them all? Or just save them one at a time? Because if that's the deal, your whole life from here on out has been mapped.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

NoAAUK's picture

NoAAUK

Sun, 07/01/2012 - 03:42

"Because if that's the deal, your whole life from here on out has been mapped."

At least this time it will be mapped by God not satan as it was when I got mixed up in steppism

......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11

steve cochrane's picture

steve cochrane

Sat, 06/30/2012 - 22:35

of others about their experiences. They do not owe you an answer.

becket's picture

becket

Sun, 07/01/2012 - 01:47

Yes, they do owe me an answer when they pitch erroneous accusations with my name attached to them. They most certainly do owe me an explanation, steve. They ask me about my experiences, and their questions are couched in sarcasm and what they consider to be some form of hilarity. Even you do it.

I'll ask whatever I choose of whomever I choose. The fact that they can't or won't answer perfectly illustrates the weakness of their positions.

Let me point out to my BFF patti: "Stop asking questions" is a demand. See it? I didn't say it. steve did. Is he a control freak by the same standards you judge me?

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

NoAAUK's picture

NoAAUK

Sun, 07/01/2012 - 03:21

"Yes, they do owe me an answer when they pitch erroneous accusations with my name attached to them."

Ive answered your questions, so you didn't do any 12 step work......you are not a stepper?

......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11

becket's picture

becket

Sun, 07/01/2012 - 03:24

As I just got finished writing, I worked through all the 12 steps in the early 1980s. I left AA in '90. As far as I'm concerned, the main thing that I got from AA is that I don't drink anymore. I have always talked the way I talk, even before I was a teenager, and it's a little late to pull my punches now, especially in the face of continual exaggeration and bullshit.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

NoAAUK's picture

NoAAUK

Sun, 07/01/2012 - 04:09

So now you have carried the message.......this gets confusing.

Did God miracle you into stopping drinking or did you do it on your own while you happened to be invoved in a nonsense spouting cult?

......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11

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live_free_or_die

Sun, 07/01/2012 - 03:55

Smiles & kisses & hugs noaauk

Alcoholics Anonymous: MyNotGodHasItCovered®
http://www.expaa.org/
http://bereanresearch.com/
http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/
NOT AA:
Rational Recovery, SOS, HAMS
http://alcoholabusesolutions.com/

becket's picture

becket

Sun, 07/01/2012 - 04:31

Do you believe in miracles? You say you are a Christian; in that case, you should have no problem believing that I was granted respite from the compulsion to drink by a power greater than myself. I like to think of it as a partnership, a merger which induced sobriety.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

NoAAUK's picture

NoAAUK

Sun, 07/01/2012 - 05:19

Again i am NOT a christian and I do not believe in miracles grated to AA members.

And no I do NOT believe you and other members of the stepper cult were singled out as favourable to God and worthy of miracles just because you abused alcohol or other substances and now go to or went to a cult that uses scaremongering entrapment teqniques and is full of sexual predators and control freaks.

No sorry I do NOT buy that miracle bit for steppers at all

......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11

becket's picture

becket

Sun, 07/01/2012 - 08:06

I don't believe anyone is singled out by God for anything. I certainly don't believe God "grates" miracles - ew, too much chafing.

So you believe in God but Jesus was a grifter? Just checking. Wouldn't want to insult you again. Really.

I didn't ask you if you could envision miracles for steppers. I asked you if you could envision miracles.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

NoAAUK's picture

NoAAUK

Sun, 07/01/2012 - 11:53

I asked you if you could envision miracles.

No I don't see the point in God putting people on this earth to grant miracles. I've dealt with this subject elsewhere on this blog. You are just full of stepper cult BS same as Clara...except you swear and she doesn't

......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11

NoAAUK's picture

NoAAUK

Sun, 07/01/2012 - 11:58

"God "grates" miracles - ew, too much chafing."

So do you think God removes all your typing errors?

Because I can assure you he doesn't......I point it out to you next time instead of just ignoring it, knowing we all do it as this blog is NOT a job application or something.

Your insults don't bother me, I am fully aware it is not personal......you insult everbody who is not a stepper.....from behind your computer, its just you

However, I can't work out why you slag steppism yourself and then tell us to 'fuck off' for doing it......that does intrigue me

......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11

causeandeffect's picture

causeandeffect

Fri, 06/29/2012 - 22:25

I was wondering exactly how long it would take for the blame brigade to arrive on the scene.....

Troll free AA critical forum
http://www.expaa.org/

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it." ~ Neil deGrasse Tyson

becket's picture

becket

Sat, 06/30/2012 - 16:31

Who do you see blaming whom, causeandeffect? You'd have to go back to the very inception of this website to be able to determine who threw the first punch. Now it's tradition. It stands in place of dialogue.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

rainbow's picture

rainbow

Sat, 06/30/2012 - 09:07

AA taught me not to blame anyone for anything. Hence...

Can't blame molesters. They were sick diseased people and my part was that I didn't tell anyone, didn't say NO, didn't push their hands away, didn't call 911, and didn't shoot them in their sleep.

Can't blame my parents for any physical or emotional abuse. They were sick people, suffering from an incurable disease. My part was that I didn't speak up, didn't run away from home, didn't call 911, and didn't shoot them in their sleep.

Can't blame AA. Their program works 100% perfectly, is evidence-based, has qualified sponsors, and had all the answers. My part was that I didn't demand accountability or logic enough times, didn't ask for evidence to back up it's claims, didn't walk out early enough, didn't call 911, didn't make the coffee right, forgot to fill the cream & sugar, and didn't shoot some of them in their sleep.

Can't blame God. God is perfect, and I'm sure not. I was born a defective sinner with this dreaded DNA gene of addiction and incurable disease that God gifted to me. Was he confused or drunk that day? In addition he gave me free will to do whatever I want, whenever I want, with whoever I want. Can't shoot God. He's busy in Africa making sure millions of children starve. Their part was that they chose the wrong country to be born in.

Can't blame myself. I was born with an incurable disease, which excuses me of everything. Damn. From the beginning I was doomed. I'm doomed now. Dammit. Someone shoot me in my sleep.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Clara's picture

Clara

Sat, 06/30/2012 - 09:44

I view it as evidenced based, Rainbow, because I saw people that had reclaimed their lives. They helped me reclaim mine. I see plenty of people try it other ways, and if it works for them, fine. I don't judge because who knows what might work for them? I have also seen parent dies of cancers that were treated with known cures. Sure...

I hope you can find a way to work through your anger. It sounds as if it started long before AA.

One thing we did try to talk about before it got laughed off the board is forgiveness therapy.

My parents made mistakes. But when I could put myself in their position - young, unsure parents, a shy mother, a father that had everyone in his family reaching out to him as he climbed the ladder of success... I had THIRD cousins coming after us when he died because they were SURE they were in the will - I had more empathy for them. I couldn't blame them for just not always having the answer. Why good would any anger continue to give me? Did it give me anything positive? Nope.

Molesters deserve to be shot. As my sponsor said, we are often placed in positions where we have no part. It is a shame that phrase gets abused and twisted.

Things happen in life. Prince Charming doesn't always come, we don't always get the children we wanted, sometimes we get bad information that causes us to make decisions we wouldn't have made otherwise... But what good does anger do? It doesn't harm the molester, our parents, doctors that didn't give us everything we needed to know, etc.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

JR Harris's picture

JR Harris

Sat, 06/30/2012 - 09:41

I know what you mean, no need to explain Clara.....

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

NoAAUK's picture

NoAAUK

Sat, 06/30/2012 - 11:05

"I view it as evidenced based"

LOL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uU2YliYttnQ

......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11

NoAAUK's picture

NoAAUK

Sat, 06/30/2012 - 15:46

"I saw people that had reclaimed their lives."

So you consider endlessly sitting around it stepper cult meetings constantly parroting the same cult speak, is reclaiming their lives. Many would consider that as 'out of the frying pan, into the fire'

......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11

Clara's picture

Clara

Sat, 06/30/2012 - 16:11

I consider moving on from things that happened to them 30 years ago to be reclaiming their lives.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

NoAAUK's picture

NoAAUK

Sun, 07/01/2012 - 02:04

Have moved on, but need to help others move on, especially as you people with your scaremongering are intent of keeping them in your cult

......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11

becket's picture

becket

Sun, 07/01/2012 - 02:33

I don't give a shit if they go to AA or leave it - it's none of my business.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

NoAAUK's picture

NoAAUK

Sun, 07/01/2012 - 15:05

"I don't give a shit if they go to AA or leave it - it's none of my business"

So you missed the step that guarantees sobriety more than anything else, step 12 namely cult recruitment?

and you have managed to to stay sober all these years without this guarantee of Bill? That invalidated that claim of Bills or "pissed on Bills Strawberries " again as we say over here

......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11

becket's picture

becket

Sun, 07/01/2012 - 17:23

I have managed to stay sober. What's your point?

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

NoAAUK's picture

NoAAUK

Mon, 07/02/2012 - 00:23

My point depends on what you are actually saying, at the time in quetion

When you are saying you don't give a shit about others or words to that effect, then I am impliying that you have stayed sober without having to recruit new members to the stepper cult destpite willsons BS claim in BB Chapter 7 working with others.

When you are saying you worked the steps in the 80's I'm not saying anything.

What we say depends on what you contradictory steppers are actually saying at the time in question.

If you didn't keep contradicting yourselves all the time it would be easier for us to comunicate with steppers......but what the hell, thats steppism, BS and contradictions........mind screws and death

......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11

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