Hi everybody! I QUIT the 12stomp for good on Mothers Day of this year. I'd been in & out of that self-defeating, soul-killing, negative cult on & off for 23 years. I began really questioning the whole dis-organization about 2 years ago. When I found the Orange Papers, I knew I had not been wrong in my feelings about the CULT. Then I found blamethenile videos, morerevealed, leavingaa, massive's radio show....and the rest is history. I will never set foot into another meeting again. Taking back my power has brought me REAL happiness, joy & FREEDOM. THANK YOU ALL. Glad to be here. Peace :)
massive
Wed, 06/27/2012 - 23:58
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welcome Rainbow!!!!
welcome Rainbow!!!!
Massive
NoAAUK
Thu, 06/28/2012 - 02:53
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Welcome Rainbow
Welcome Rainbow
Hi again Massive
......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11
live_free_or_die
Thu, 06/28/2012 - 04:37
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Follow the rainbow
Welcome
So other than the self-defeating, soul-killing, negative cult thing, what about AA made you leave AA?
http://recoveringfromrecovery.com/forum/index.php
http://www.morerevealed.com/
http://leavingaa.com/
http://www.ontrackandbeyond.com/
http://www.youtube.com/user/blamethenile
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=64J17y8nRv8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tweUcAjPfM&feature=BFa&list=UUxV7vR0Kq3g...
Alcoholics Anonymous: MyNotGodHasItCovered®
http://www.expaa.org/
http://bereanresearch.com/
http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/
NOT AA:
Rational Recovery, SOS, HAMS
http://alcoholabusesolutions.com/
Clara
Thu, 06/28/2012 - 08:07
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Welcome! Wish you had found
Welcome! Wish you had found a fellowship like I did. In fact, I wish I could find that fellowship group here!
Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.
Orange
Thu, 06/28/2012 - 15:03
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Welcome to freedom and sanity
And have a good day.
SPK77
Mon, 07/02/2012 - 09:03
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My hero!
Welcome rainbow...I spend most of my time on recoveringfromrecovery.com
rainbow
Fri, 06/29/2012 - 01:41
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Why I Left...
First off, thank you all for the nice welcome.
Ya know, when I think about all the years I spent in & out of the roomz, and then in again for long periods, and finally out again for good, I sometimes feel a sense of disappointment and sadness overall. I truly wanted to believe. I got involved deeply, from my heart and soul. Along the way I met a whole lot of interesting and diverse people, friends who held my hand when I needed it, who called me, liked me, encouraged me, etc. I was there for a whole lot of people myself. I hope in some small way that I helped some along the way. I genuinely do care for and about my fellow human beings, brothers & sisters, friends. When someone is having a difficult time, perhaps suffering from whatever is challenging them, I'm there. I cheered others on and encouraged them to be their best, do their best, and to have fun doing it. If we're not having fun, what's the use? So I hung out with friends that liked going to camp-outs, picnics, dances. For those friends that were there for me in a genuine, honest, loving, good-intentioned, caring way, I have a very special place in my heart for each and every one of them.
I tried my best in NA/AA. Along the way I did a lot of self-examination, I learned ways to express my emotions that had been bottled up for decades, began believing that I actually could stay abstinent. I wanted to get back to the real me inside that I had lost, become stronger, learn new coping skills, and get on with my life. Without harming myself anymore. That's what I signed up for.
At first I didn't question too many things. There was no way I wanted to return to my old lifestyle, so I grabbed onto AA/NA with a death grip. It was all that was offered. I believed what I was being taught and told. XA said their way was the only way. Even when I didn't quite think that certain things being said, read and done were of a true nature (or a logical one), I went along with a lot of it. I really worked those steps hard. I read everything I could get my hands on about addiction and recovery, in addition to a lot of reading that was outside of the AA/NA box. Knowledge is power. The more you know, the better off you are. Our minds are amazing. We can do anything once we set our minds to it.
Fast forward to 2008. Hadn't been in the roomz in years, didn't need to. I had been living a good clean life (on my own), being responsible, successful, totally involved in events like Burning Man & other regional burns. My daughter was out on her own doing great. Once in a blue moon I'd have a Sierra Nevada pale ale. Could take it or leave it. After my gastric bypass surgery, however, having a drink got way out of hand real FAST. With my reconstructed tummy (pouch, we call it) alcohol goes straight through and in to the small intestine, incredibly fast and the most incredible high I had ever had. One glass of wine affected me as if I'd drank three. Two drinks put me at a blood alcohol level of .28 -- I kid you not. What a whirlwind. I became very deeply depressed, drank frequently, got a DUI, got further depressed, slashed my wrists open with a box cutter and painted my kitchen in blood. I was a mess.
I went to Path of Hope rehab in Lexington, North Carolina. It was hardly a path of hope. Bible belt, extremely Jesus environment, evangelistic and negative fear-inducing recovery. I could write a novel about that horrid experience alone. (This here is already becoming too long. I apologize.)
Anyway, I had to write a 4th step. I did it exactly the way I was instructed, wrote down every secret thing I had ever done (a total repetition of my other intensely sad & painful 4th steps) and every thing that had been done to me. Couldn't understand WHY I had to rehash the past. I did my 5th step with a woman, a stranger, someone 'unbiased' who was brought in from the outside, who I was told did this often, a real "pro" at listening to the women patients.
I believe this was the Beginning of my End with any kind of 12step program, only at the time I did not see it as such. Now I do see it. All too clearly. Blindly, and naively, I trusted her. When I told her about the years of molestation as a kid, she asked me what my part was in it. "My part? What do you mean MY part? I had no part. I was an innocent child, a victim. What PART could I possibly have in that?!!"
She replied, "You didn't tell anyone."
I felt like I had been shot. Stun gunned. I was numb. I got up & I told her I was DONE, mixed in with a whole lot of not very nice things I screamed at her. How dare she. And how many other women had she said that to? I left the next day. I stayed sober for a year, then moved back to CA because I became a Gramma. I LOVE BEING A GRAMMA!! :) Coming back out here was stressful. Sacramento sucked. I don't do well in big cities anymore. Now I live in a small town of 15K people. I went on a 6 month binge. An almost every day binge. I was on Planet Blackout.
My last drink was in September 2010. I quit for good that day. I had had enough. Plus, I did not want my grandson to have a drunk for a Gramma. He is my rock. My heart smiles when I think of him, and when I watch him, which is often, I can't describe a greater Joy.
So I went back to AA. It's all they have around here, with the exception of Celebrate Recovery. The nearest SMART meeting is 30 minutes away West or South. The people in AA seemed a bit more mature than the NAers and less melodramatic. I saw they had more sober time there too. I did everything I was told to do, got a sponsor, jumped into service at 22 days sober, had 6 positions before I could blink my eyes, was on committees, yada yada yada.
I became overwhelmed with all the work I was doing. The more work I did, the more they wanted. I got tired real fast of meetings being nothing more than constant war stories, god god god god, romancing the booze with such vivid descriptions that I felt like getting drunk as soon as the meeting would end. I listened to people rehashing the past over & over & over & over, and talking about more god god god god, the same slogans over & over & over, and a whole lot of negative.....brainwashing. Nothing said was positive. What I realized had happened in AA was that nothing ever changed in the roomz. I've been to 12step meetings in over 12 states. It was all the same.
I felt I was changing inside more & more, that I had grown, was getting stronger inside -- mentally, emotionally, physically --but all I was hearing were the same old things I had heard for years, the same stories, the same things being read over & over, and most, if not all people were talking like pre-programmed zombie robots, talking the language that only 12steppers talk. I know the language all too well. I was on my way to being a lifeless blob myself at times.
However, gradually I was becoming very aware of just how negative the input was. "First thought wrong. Who told you you could think? Shut up, sit down, take the cotton out of your ears, put it in your mouth. Keep it simple Stupid. You're powerless over alcohol, drugs, people, places & things...and everything else in your life. Your life is unmanageable. If you leave the roomz you will die. Do the steps or die. Acceptance is the key to all your problems. Go ahead and drink! You'll be back! Turn everything over to god...." blah blah blah, ad nauseum.
I wasn't being empowered by anything. I wasn't progressing - I was going backwards. I felt stagnant. I felt stuck. I was told my feelings weren't OK, that I was my problem, constantly reminded that I had a part in everything, that I was diseased & had 125+ defects of characters. They actually had a LIST. Where I come from, we call 'em personality traits & human emotions. I began telling folks that I liked my so-called defects of character & that I'm especially keeping the rebellious one. LOL
My eyes began opening up to a whole new realm of awareness. Then I realized these were the same things I had been listening to for 2 decades. The same words, only now I was seeing it for what it really was. I saw women being 13stepped. I was one of them being hit on by yucky pervs. It was disgusting. Where I come from, we call it sexual harassment. I saw members stealing from others, robbing the club's funds -- and nothing was done about it. "Outside issues..." they said.
I've been ripped off by sponsors & so-called friends who I trusted & believed in. One gal owes me $187. I sued her 18 months ago & I'm still trying to get that money. My now-EX-boyfriend got me a job working for an AAer. She owes me $700. I'll never see that one.
I was told to stop taking my meds. 4 months later I was suicidal again. I got back on my meds & my sponsor was disappointed in me. Little things kept adding up. Charlie Sheen opened my eyes and ears last year & I was hearing things coming out of his mouth publicly that I had been feeling inside. Hmm, maybe I wasn't making up this crap afterall, I thought to myself. I told my last sponsor that I thought AA was a cult. She replied, "So what if it's a cult, IT WORKS!" Whoa.
I began investigating & reading other books. Wow. I found out that AA had a 5% success rate, that I was sitting amongst pedophiles & domestic violence offenders/abusers. I know this because I began looking at the Sheriffs booking logs, seeing mugshots of people who were in AA/NA.
Oh, lest I not forget to mention the 'Intergroup Tribunal of Old-Timers & AA Members' who took over my meeting one day before I could even get it started. They belittled, embarrassed, humiliated & shamed me in front of 50+ AAers, making accusations at me & telling me rumors they'd heard around town -- harmful, untrue things. When I tried to defend myself, not one person spoke up to help me. No one said anything. I wished I had walked out that day. I did for a couple of weeks, but then folks coaxed me back. I went back, but again it was like the Beginning of the End of my journey there.
I found the orange papers purely by accident one night. Then I found all those other sites that Hank listed in his posting somewhere here. It blew my mind. Now I was really AWAKE. I began hearing people's stories about their experiences, and it validated my feelings & thoughts. I began questioning everything then. I began rebelling. I told them I didn't believe what I was being told anymore. In return I was told my thinking was insane, to read the big book, talk with my sponsor, go to more meetings, go to different meetings. I stayed. Didn't want to, but I stayed.
Then it was time to do a 4th step again, my sponsor insisted. I couldn't see the point of it, really. I'd already spilled my guts in the past many times already, made amends, meditated in my garden. "Why rehash what is done and over with?"
I really began asking people, "Can't we just move forward?" THAT was another realization, that nobody was really moving forward. I saw old-timers with 18/27/35/40 years sobriety and they were dull, drab, boring, always talking in the past -- miserable specimens of drone-like, robot human existence. I did NOT want to be 78 years old some day way in the future and be like that.
I had 3 people on my butt, telling me I HAD to do that 4th step -- AGAIN & again & again. The pressure was overbearing -- "If you don't do it, you'll go back out and drink...and then it's death for you, you know that, right?" I have never felt so much guilt, shame, blame and fear as I have this past year. My sponsor, boyfriend & another just would NOT let up.
Then one afternoon I had what can only be described as a mini-nervous-breakdown. I exploded. I told them all to BACK THE F##K OFF -- NOW. The anger in my eyes and face told them I was serious & it made them back down alright -- for about a whole 3 minutes. Then it was, "Well, do you think we can revisit this a little further down the road?" NO. Absolutely NOT. I refused. Where I come from, NO means NO. What part of NO did they not understand? I was done. I was not going to put up with this anymore. I turned in my keys, gave up all my positions, wished them well, and I walked out.
That was Mothers Day. I will never go back. Not with what I know now. I was amazed to find out that many once-addicted people just Quit with their destructive behaviors, stayed Quit, and are still staying Quit. Then I found out I really only had (and have) 2 real friends out of all those folks who wore masks, pretending they were my friends up until the day I refused to conform, and left. Oh well. I can make more. I *am* making more. :) I had a much better Mothers Day that day, I do have to say. I spent it with my grandson. We went on a 9 mile walk up to a special place I like to be in out in nature. We had a fun picnic with Chinese food under some redwood trees and watched the peacocks display their plumage. :)
I feel like a newcomer all over again, only in a waaaaaay different capacity. Getting AA out of my head is a bit challenging sometimes. I catch myself saying I'm 'grateful' about something & I roll my eyes at the word and I'll cringe all over. I cringe at a lot of words, so I'm finding other words.
Lastly, what I want to say is that I finally feel a freedom within me that I am really amazed at. I'm no longer scared. I lost the desire to drink a long time ago -- about 18 months ago. It vanished. God (or rock & doorknob) didn't do that -- I did that. No more guilt. No more shame. No more fear. Sometimes I get a bit angry, and I'm trying hard to work on that. It comes and goes. For so many years I was told it wasn't OK for me to get angry. "Can't get angry, girl -- you'll go back out and drink/use!" With that kind of encouragement, I can see why some people do go back to drinking. I mean, what's the use if you're "powerless, have a deadly incurable disease that is only going to end with jails, institutions & death?" I don't buy it anymore.
Sometimes I feel sadness & disappointment, because I believed for many years in so many people that I know now had lied to me...or were only passing on to me what had been passed on to them. A whole new world has opened up to me. A calmer world. A whole new group of caring, intelligent people, who have their own thoughts & feelings, and talents galore who are coming into my life every day. My family is so happy that I'm around more, and they see my 'true me' blossoming.
Does AA work for some people? I think so. I've seen it work for many. I'm truly happy that it works for some. It's not for me, though. Is it the only way? I don't think so. I've found some things that are outside the box. Did I get some good out of it along the way? Yes. Did I get some bad? Yes. It was definitely a learning experience. Last night I was thinking, "What's the best thing I have gotten out of AA?" I thought of my best friend Debrielle, and it made me smile. People call us Peas-n-Carrots. Debrielle happily accepts my new path, just as I lovingly accept her path in NA. We all have our own paths. It's all good.
OK, I'm about to press the Send button. *long pause*
Hope I did OK.
Peace!
avogadno
Fri, 06/29/2012 - 02:06
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Hi Rainbow, I've seen you
Hi Rainbow, I've seen you around a little and have enjoyed your posts. You are friendly and offer some humor along with understanding and knowledge about this whole mess. Thanks for introducing yourself and welcome! :=)
Pro Empowerment!
Truth about AA: http://orange-papers.org/menu1.html
Expose AA: http://www.expaa.org/
Trisha K.
Fri, 06/29/2012 - 16:30
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Welcome rainbow. Your story
Welcome rainbow. Your story has it all, that's for sure.
“The more I traveled the more I realized that fear makes strangers of people who should be friends.”
Shirley MacLaine
live_free_or_die
Fri, 06/29/2012 - 05:39
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Enjoying the 4th
Thanks for telling your story here rainbow. I am glad you were able to find your own path and now can move along.
I do have one last question for you, and hope you will take the time to answer it as I am totally curious about it.
I myself love the outdoors and in fact as a young man worked for the U.S. Forest Service. I worked in the Saugus Ranger District of the Angeles National Forest. A project that I was thankfully allowed to work on, one I am still proud of having worked on, was the Pacific Crest Trail, or PCT. The PCT is a hiking trail that runs from the Mexican border, along the western states and up to the Canadian border. I truly got to some beautiful spots along the trail as we built the trail through southern California.
Now, my question of you has to do with the hiking trip you and your grandson went on. You mentioned it was a 9 mile hike, probably to a beautiful, favorite spot. And you both enjoyed some chinese cuisine.
Was the chinese food delivered?
The Pacifice Crest Trail
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific_Crest_Trail
A list of 194 character defects
http://realisticrecovery.wordpress.com/2009/05/03/194-character-defects/
St. Louis knows how to do a fourth
http://fairsaintlouis.org/
Alcoholics Anonymous: MyNotGodHasItCovered®
http://www.expaa.org/
http://bereanresearch.com/
http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/
NOT AA:
Rational Recovery, SOS, HAMS
http://alcoholabusesolutions.com/
rainbow
Fri, 06/29/2012 - 20:02
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Pacific Crest Trail, Chinese Food & Character Defects -- YUMMY!!
Thanks for the links. There's a beautiful little place just north of Lake Detroit Oregon called Pamelia Lake. It's right on the Pacific Crest Trail. From the turnout, it's about a 2-mile very low incline trail through a picturesque old growth forest. The variety of green colors are strikingly intense. The lake is freezing cold, even in Summer. The trail around the lake is 5 miles. Breathtaking.
http://www.nwhiker.com/HuntsCove.html
http://www.everytrail.com/view_trip.php?trip_id=661106
(great slideshow & youtube video)
The Chinese food may have well been delivered. There's a vegetarian chinese restaurant on the grounds that has food to go in little box lunches. Everything is delicious there.
Defects of character. Never saw the assets list before. Odd that 'Courage' would be under Defects, and 'Analytical' is under Assets. I think analyzing is healthy. It's definitely an asset.
I plan to Quit Smoking this July 4th. My grandson keeps telling me, "Don't smoke, Gramma!!" Wish me luck. I know I can do it, have done it twice before. Getting through the first week is tough! Any tips? Heard Trimpey on Massive's show talking to a gal about quitting smoking. Good tips.
live_free_or_die
Sat, 06/30/2012 - 05:36
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Just beautiful
Alcoholics Anonymous: MyNotGodHasItCovered®
http://www.expaa.org/
http://bereanresearch.com/
http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/
NOT AA:
Rational Recovery, SOS, HAMS
http://alcoholabusesolutions.com/
becket
Sat, 06/30/2012 - 16:32
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Shouldn't there be a
Shouldn't there be a collection cup, or barrel, under that thing? Nasty, spewing all that stuff into the water. How rude.
“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian
live_free_or_die
Sun, 07/01/2012 - 05:46
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The judge being the........
...well, the judge.
Alcoholics Anonymous: MyNotGodHasItCovered®
http://www.expaa.org/
http://bereanresearch.com/
http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/
NOT AA:
Rational Recovery, SOS, HAMS
http://alcoholabusesolutions.com/
NoAAUK
Sun, 07/01/2012 - 11:10
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http://www.youtube.com/watch
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itmNiTwHOsM
......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11
NoAAUK
Sat, 06/30/2012 - 06:32
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"I plan to Quit Smoking this
"I plan to Quit Smoking this July 4th"
Allen Carr's Easyway, this does work
http://www.allencarrseasyway.com/
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i_1_10/189-0945153-3330468?url=sear...
He also wrote books to stop drinking
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&fie...
......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11
becket
Sat, 06/30/2012 - 16:39
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"Allen Carr's Easyway, this
"Allen Carr's Easyway, this does work."
Unless it doesn't, in which case do we get to call him a skumbag conman, a sorry bastard and a lying, thieving asshole?
“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian
NoAAUK
Sun, 07/01/2012 - 02:16
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No you get your money back if
No you get your money back if you go on the face to face courses. Its guarenteed success or money back.
No chance of getting your money back from conman sexual predator Bill W though, chances are he'd already spent it of some younger woman or some acid tabs
......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11
becket
Sun, 07/01/2012 - 02:48
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Well that sounds nearly as
Well that sounds nearly as promising as the bearded lady and the conjoined twins. How much are the tickets?
“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian
NoAAUK
Sun, 07/01/2012 - 05:27
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I think the course was about
I think the course was about £200 with success or a money back guarentee.
They won't give money back on the book as they reason that is unpractical, which I agree.
The book cost me £12 and I have never smoked nor wanted to since I finished reading it as instructed.
It not a miracle cure Allen Carr just tells you what you already know, that there is NO pleasure whatsoever involved in smoking nicotine. You are just sucking poisonous fumes into your lungs to satisfy a craving for nicotine. Carr just makes the penny drop and frees you
On the other hand there is pleasure invoved in drinkig Alcohol or snorting Cocaine, whatever self righteous steppers like to claim
......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11
becket
Sun, 07/01/2012 - 08:11
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"On the other hand there is
"On the other hand there is pleasure invoved in drinkig Alcohol or snorting Cocaine, whatever self righteous steppers like to claim"
Man. Are you on something?
“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian
NoAAUK
Sun, 07/01/2012 - 09:33
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No, but I used to have
No, but I used to have problems thats how the stepper cult suckered me for a time
......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11
Clara
Sun, 07/01/2012 - 08:54
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My mother love to smoke. She
My mother love to smoke. She had her morning routine when she would get up, brew a pot of tea and have that first cigarette. She quit when she got sick, and it took a week. But, yes, she enjoyed smoking and I know others that do, too. I enjoyed drinking. It was all fun int he beginning.
So, Carr has the magic to make the penny drop for you and free you. So much for self empowerment and all... But I hope that it works for you.
Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.
NoAAUK
Sun, 07/01/2012 - 09:38
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He showed me the way to self
Allen Carr showed me the way to self empowerment, he didn't stop me smoking I had to do it , never actually met the man. Just read his book and stopped smoking after 40 odd years
Why didn't God remove wilsons obsession for nicotine. nicotine anonymous have got to be even more delusional than you lot....if thats at all possible
and younge women and LSD
......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11
Trisha K.
Sun, 07/01/2012 - 11:36
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Just another member here
Just another member here talking in contradictions (circles) here.
NoAAUK comments:
"No, but I used to have problems thats how the stepper cult suckered me for a time."
"Allen Carr showed me the way to self empowerment, he didn't stop me smoking I had to do it, never actually met the man. Just read his book and stopped smoking after 40 odd years"
You never met Bill W. either, and you could have just read his book.
“The more I traveled the more I realized that fear makes strangers of people who should be friends.”
Shirley MacLaine
NoAAUK
Sun, 07/01/2012 - 13:58
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"Just another member here
"Just another member here talking in contradictions (circles) here."
?????????????????????
I never heard of his book till I joined his cult?
The steps in wilsons books don't work, spiritual experience.....come on LOL
I might have had one if I had been spaced out on the belladonna treatement same as wilson, but I got sweet FA from his book, nor his cult
......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11
Clara
Sat, 06/30/2012 - 10:21
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Decide what is going to be
Decide what is going to be your last day and tel yourself that every day till then. Then have gum, lifesavers, and the like to pop into your mouth when you get a craving. Find something to do with your hands. Remember when cravings come that this too shall pass because they always do...
This worked for my dad.
Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.
tobyt
Fri, 06/29/2012 - 07:06
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Thanks for your
well-written and thoughtful story. You have a lot to contribute to this site. Welcome.
Clara
Fri, 06/29/2012 - 08:12
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the more I listen to other
the more I listen to other people's, the more grateful I am for my original homegroup and my wonderful sponsor. At 22 days, the sole service work a person should be doing (IMO0 is to be a greeter, help set up the room and/or to make coffee or clean up. Nothing too taxing, but something that gets you there. It's true, though, that the more service work you sign up for, the more people will ask you to do because they see that it actualy gets done.
I was told very early never to lend money and never to ask anyone for it. I wasn't a bank and you never know what people will really use the money for. In all the times I employed people to work on my rentals, they treated me fairly. People in the world took more financial advantage of me that any AA ever did.
When I idi my fourth step, it was on my timing and when I wanted to do it. I had seen the value of it in others and it was fine. I don't know what there is to fear in it as I knew everything that I was writing down already, so wy be afraid? When I did my 5th, I too did it with a professional. The point is to share it with another person and God, not necessarily the whole fellowship. It just gets it all off you and out into the open. My sponsor has always told me the "what is your part in it" is really what is your part IF you even have one. Many people have things happen to them that they had nothing to do with. I think this is very misunderstood and possibly poorly related.
The OPF serves a lot of useful purposes, but what I have discovered is that people have their drunkologes here that they share, only they are tirades about "why I hate AA." It is interesting to me that these people don't see that the OPF really is just AA in reverse. People that were bored with drunkologues and "keeping it green" do exact same thing here, yet they are very interested for the same reason those drunkologues appeal in AA.
Welcome, Rainbow.
Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.
Trisha K.
Fri, 06/29/2012 - 16:33
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Clara, I wish the new members
Clara, I wish the new members here could be forbidden to read what others have written before them. AA has become a handy excuse for many here.
“The more I traveled the more I realized that fear makes strangers of people who should be friends.”
Shirley MacLaine
Clara
Fri, 06/29/2012 - 16:51
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It's easy to blame peope. I
It's easy to blame peope. I have heard amazing stories here and on recoveringfromrecovery about the "advantage" someone took of them when, if they had thought about it a bit more or asked a sponsor about it, maybe you wouldn't have lent the money or hired someone. AA has a lot ofp eople looking for something, looking for the easier, softer way in almost anything... I have interrupted women hitting my husband up for money. One was a crack whore and I put her straight very quickly. And you have to because once it gets out that someone will "lend" money, even if it is 5.00, others hear about it. And if you DO hand out some money, take it as a given that you are giving it as a gift. What gets me is when these people lend the money to people they barely even know. People did it all the time in bars, yet they get bitchy about it when leaving AA.
Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.
Persephone In Exile
Fri, 06/29/2012 - 18:41
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Is that really the only
Is that really the only problem, Clara? I was flat out robbed, myself. And ID thefted. I don't know who you're referencing when you say that, I didn't read that post, apparently. Either here or on rfr. Apologies to whoever it was posting that that I didn't see it, by the way, only the constant whine about it ever since.
It's odd, many of us have been taken advantage of in ways we never even post about online because it is too horrific, yet still Clara says everyone is just out to blame others. Clara reads another forum and posts about what people post on it here, criticizing them for speaking their minds. To be perfectly honest, Clara's starting to make me sick.
http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/
Clara
Fri, 06/29/2012 - 19:14
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PIE, I hae been id thefted
PIE, I hae been id thefted and some would even have me think it has happened on this board to some extent, although I know it is nonsense. I had a guy ask me to take him to the pharmacy to get him meds, and when we got there, he asked for my credit card to pay for them. I took him back to the club empty handed. The same people you might encounter in the world, you can encounter in AA because AA mirrors society. I had a guy ask for 1500. to repair a car he damaged while drinking. He then totaled it when he got it back. Then, he didn't think he should have to pay me because he didn't "have use of the car anymore..." I garnished wages and it got stupid. This was before AA.
I used to think that people would be grateful for people that could help them out because they obviously didn't have credit to get it elsewhere. Dummy me, right? They can't do that because that is what they deserve. And it doesn't make me "Lady Boutiful" to them; it makes me a moron. They would have just gotten it from someplace else.
I was told by my sponsor never to lend money. If I wanted to GIVE it, then so be it. Therefore, there was no expectations. I learned very quickly to watch and listen. I heard people moaning about not having money, but then go out and spend 20. on lunch when we would eat after the meeting. When I was trying to rebuild financially when I got in real estate, I ate cereal for dinner.
AA is very good in some very special regards. But it isn't Utopia and some people need to really look inward a bit. If you have a sponsor asking you, "well, why did you do that?" Perhaps the real question was "why didn't we talk about this before you handed a wad of cash to someone you barely know?"
Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.
Persephone In Exile
Fri, 06/29/2012 - 21:06
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Clara, how does an instance
Clara, how does an instance in which you refused to give your credit card to someone to pay for drugs in any way relate to someone getting actually robbed? Are you serious? Did this person then steal your card and bank account info and open accounts in your name? Because that is ID theft. Someone asking for your card and you refusing is just, well, not. Worse, it's trying to put your fortunate circumstance on the level as people whose circumstances were most UNfortunate.
Is someone even insinuating on this board that this is happening to you here, as you're hinting at, or are you just bitching because people may or may not have followed the blatantly obvious trails you've left all over the place to your actual identity? That's not ID theft, in any case. That's just being a goddamned moron.
http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/
Clara
Sat, 06/30/2012 - 07:58
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I wasn't trying to equate the
I wasn't trying to equate the incidences, one on one, PIE. I am just saying that you certainly have circumstances in AA that can be be bad but it could also happen anywhere else. People try to make it out as if it is exclusive beahvior to AA, which is untrue and unfair. I hope you pursued every option you had for prosecution. I was actualy addressing Rainbow, though. I wasn't aware of your experiences, and I wish they hadn't happened.
As for me and what I share, I don't mind sharing information about myself. But what has been presented to me lately by a concerned woman isn't true. I don't believe for a moment that anyone offered to share information about me to gain some sort of entry to a special club. JR has been trying to out what he believes is my name as early as 3/31 and I know so because I have the posts on my desk. I don't know any healthy personality truly wants to be identified as a stalker as much as he does, and only because I went to Florida on a vacation and checked a meeting? The day before my husband blocked him, there had been no fewer than 40 posts directed at me. No other subject. And you are right. All he does is repackage my own disclosures into something else. It does make you wonder how he treated his wife because we can see how he treats women on this board that he disagrees with, dislikes or just decides to exploit.
Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.
NoAAUK
Sat, 06/30/2012 - 10:42
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"I am just saying that you
"I am just saying that you certainly have circumstances in AA that can be be bad but it could also happen anywhere else."
So where are these other places that are chock full of lying thieving scaremongering control freaks and sexual predators.
And self serving lying cult recruiters like you
......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11
Clara
Sat, 06/30/2012 - 16:35
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You are pretty funny, NoAA.
You are pretty funny, NoAA. You obviously don't pick up the daily newspaper.
Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.
NoAAUK
Sun, 07/01/2012 - 09:51
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Newpapers don't do storys on
Newpapers don't do storys on stepper cults, they are censored by steppers poluting the media.
You people HAVE to stop the truth getting out about your satanic cult or its 'no more confused frightened victims to prey upon'
You will be stopped oneday
......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11
becket
Sun, 07/01/2012 - 17:18
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Just like Commies behind
Just like Commies behind every door, eh NoAAUK?
“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian
Persephone In Exile
Sat, 06/30/2012 - 12:00
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It just seemed as if you were
It just seemed as if you were trying to downplay how awful it is to be financially preyed upon. I did pursue every avenue, btw, and the court cases are still pending, so I won't really talk about them here. I will say, however, that the response of many in AA directly inspired my final "screw you!!" to that crowd, even though they became comical at that point to me.
As for what you share, it obviously doesn't bother you a bit. No other reason to go after JR's marriage when you're so unbothered.
http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/
becket
Sat, 06/30/2012 - 16:43
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JR Harris' marriage? He's
JR Harris' marriage? He's not married. Like the Aborigine proverb tells is, "Call on God, but row away from the rocks." Guess he didn't row so good.
“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian
NoAAUK
Mon, 07/02/2012 - 08:37
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"Call on God, but row away
"Call on God, but row away from the rocks."
Why would somebody who is an advocate of steppism quote the above from an Aborigine proverb ?
Thats a GREAT Anti Stepper slogan
......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11
becket
Mon, 07/02/2012 - 09:09
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I quote it because I believe
I quote it because I believe it makes sense. I am not an advocate for "steppism". I am an advocate for independent thinking and the unhindered exercise of free will.
“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian
Clara
Sat, 06/30/2012 - 16:49
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It's awful to be preyed upon
It's awful to be preyed upon in any context, PIE. I am just pointing out that people make it out as if the very same or similar thing only happens in AA when that isn't true. It took YEARS for equifax, transunion and the like to work things out. They took my purse, then went to my house with my keys, stole my mail for additional information. In the computer era, the damage could have somewhat been lessened because I could have gotten to everything more quickly. But it is awful. I was arrested for bad check writing when I didn't write the checks! Bad, bad, bad...
JR's situation explained some of his anger at AA to me. And I didn't find out anything that he didn't put in a public forum to be read by others in the context it was discovered - because of AA. It wasn't as if I was digging around for his name or addresses, or anything else. Or making silly scenarios that someone was trying to trade info for access to some nonexistent private forum. I mean, some of this stuff is just stupid. I feel a lot of pity for him. I wouldn't care if the information were actually true... but it just became a game to accuse me of misconduct with a sponsor or coming to El Paso when why would anyone care? It's part of a border metropolis of 2.5 million people. I don't have the ego required to care that someone might come to EP for any number of reasons or to think it has anything to do with me. I know the board changed a great deal for me when he was no longer able to access me. What JR wanted was for me to feel the way Anti did, and I couldn't and don't. I am grateful for her disclosures on RFR because her sole fear was that the meeting would get support, not that one thing had been done to her personally. That NAdaytona site is just getting goofier and goofier, but I am grateful that JR helped me determine that the Sunrise Group isn't actually doing anything wrong or illegal.
Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.
JR Harris
Sat, 06/30/2012 - 21:52
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And you weren't doing a stalking scenario in Holly Hill, FL?
And you weren't doing a stalking scenario in Holly Hill when you made that "fantasy" trip on EASTER SUNDAY 2012?
I guess Danny talked you into believing that he didn't try to "trade" information to get into a "secret forum" he believes exists.
Being Stalked By Troll Clara On Orange Papers - posted Tue, 03/20/2012 - 08:06 - http://orange-papers.org/forum/node/1010
"Lucy, you got some 'splainin' to do!" .......... Ricky Ricardo on the I love Lucy Show
"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.
Clara
Sat, 06/30/2012 - 10:00
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I had ID theft take place in
I had ID theft take place in the world, PIE. It was miserable and it took years for all of the information to get worked out.
Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.
patti
Sat, 06/30/2012 - 21:44
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Clara
Clara
For some crazy reason you apparently think AA sponsors are all knowing & give people good advise regarding any & all circumstances. You advise that newcomers should be cautious & street wise. Simultaneously AA newcomers & members are told to shut up & just listen & to blindly trust members with more time. How is a person supposed to listen, shut up, be powerless, let go & let God & so on & simultaneously be alert & vigilant to any & all dangers & the same people they've been advised to trust blindly? And also quit an addictive substance? That's a tall order & it is contradictory.
patti
becket
Sat, 06/30/2012 - 22:17
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How about you take your brain
How about you take your brain in with you when you go, even though the self-appointed mind police hurl bad advice at you?
You read like Frances Farmer after the surgery, patti. Did you just shuffle into AA, blankly staring at the steps on the wall, drooling and shaking? Christ, you come out of it all mad like somebody there MADE YOU DO SOMETHING YOU JUST DIDN'T WANNA DO. Waaaaahhh! You did not have to do one thing they told you. How could your own mind tell you anything different?
“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian
steve cochrane
Sat, 06/30/2012 - 22:42
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Hey Becket
have you heard of" the illusion of the first time? No Wiki.
becket
Sun, 07/01/2012 - 02:11
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No, baby, I've never heard of
No, baby, I've never heard of that. Is it more treatmentese bullshit? Is it like losing one's virginity in the back seat of a Volkswagen but tricking your mind into thinking you're really in the back seat of a red 1959 Cadillac Eldorado Biarritz?
“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian
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